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All Roads Lead to Rome

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posted on Nov, 1 2010 @ 07:49 PM
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Wanted to give proto props. He is still coming off with logical conclusions, feedback and positive rhetoric, AMAZING. I am well pleased, ERMAN would be proud. ROFL




posted on Nov, 1 2010 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by Jordan River
Wanted to give proto props. He is still coming off with logical conclusions, feedback and positive rhetoric, AMAZING. I am well pleased, ERMAN would be proud. ROFL



I second that !!

the knowlege is great (especially when one agrees)!



posted on Nov, 1 2010 @ 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by xuenchen

Originally posted by Jordan River
Wanted to give proto props. He is still coming off with logical conclusions, feedback and positive rhetoric, AMAZING. I am well pleased, ERMAN would be proud. ROFL



I second that !!

the knowlege is great (especially when one agrees)!



all that aside, what do you purpose on his theory. IMO, I would obvious make some things tweekable.



posted on Nov, 1 2010 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by Jordan River
Wanted to give proto props. He is still coming off with logical conclusions, feedback and positive rhetoric, AMAZING. I am well pleased, ERMAN would be proud. ROFL


Oh wow, you mean my observational skills have not failed me, and my ego is not out of control, as I worry about nothing but my overall image and popularity?

I really should stop listening to people trying to phsyche me out huh?

I do think Masqua is right, that all of us will keep uncovering things that are going to keep this thread going for another 131 pages.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed so much, followed along and helped to make this thread what it is.

I think with this kind of dedication by so many great posters contributing, that we will end up fine tuning it as we go along to get as close to the heart of the truth of this world as the Powers that Be know it.

Information is power and that is why they really do try to control information, if they can limit the information they provide us, they can shape our conclusions through that, making us think we really know what's going on and figured it out all by ourselves and we are that smart for doing so. This is how they control our reality, by only allowing us to know and see what they want us too.

Thanks for the kind words my friend.



posted on Nov, 1 2010 @ 08:10 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Oh wow, you mean my observational skills have not failed me, and my ego is not out of control, as I worry about nothing but my overall image and popularity?

Thanks for the kind words my friend.


I meant it in a good way minus his popularity. lol



posted on Nov, 1 2010 @ 08:10 PM
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Originally posted by Jordan River

Originally posted by xuenchen

Originally posted by Jordan River
Wanted to give proto props. He is still coming off with logical conclusions, feedback and positive rhetoric, AMAZING. I am well pleased, ERMAN would be proud. ROFL



I second that !!

the knowlege is great (especially when one agrees)!



all that aside, what do you purpose on his theory. IMO, I would obvious make some things tweekable.



I for one do believe that we are still in "Rome", all thing considered.

the idea of Jesus Christ and Julius Caesar being one in the same and Caesar's bloodline continued;
IT IS very very possible, considering that we can clearly see many similarities.

The Romans (assuming they were controlled by "economic" influences), were pretty good at storytelling and "cloaking", especially when an advantage was before them.

I think the "Romans" were heavily influenced by the "Hebrew" agendas, mostly economic.

The "Hebrews" not necessarily being of "religious" nature, purely financial, using religions and politics to further the Big Economic Agendas across many borders with no specific allegiances to any single group (especially a genuine "Judea" ideaology).

Maybe this is why we have seen many Nations and political groups come and go so much through the centuries !

But one thing always stays the same .... The Money Factor !



posted on Nov, 1 2010 @ 08:21 PM
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I disbelieve there is a hebrew agenda. Although, I believe that their are Jewish people using religion for an agenda. How far is this taken through over the years who knows. I am more curious on the connections between vatican and Judaism as far as finances and money.

Money is the prominent role in religion, which is why religion is no good and would probably be outdated if it was not for our elder generations keeping it intact.

Few things I would like to see is much more vatican finger pointing as judaism. But I do know proto is getting his rocks on for the dead sea scrolls (so am I (HOPING FOR ENGLISH VERSION). I do believe we will find some intresting stuff the community did not want us to find out.

What I am concerned is where is this going?
I do believe that christianity/judaism f-up its way when they adopted special classes, and money laundering for their organization.

If ceaser did survive he did obtained christianity into the roman way.

Also, Romans were not that good at story telling, they had to (DUN DUN DUN) steal a bunch of stories to make their own. Although, I am afraid this can be used against Jesus (because many believe that it was adapted by many other myths/legends). I do not think they could not create such a story as the nenw testament.

Many roman myths are pretty bad and/or ripped off from Greek mythology

edit on 1-11-2010 by Jordan River because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2010 @ 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by xuenchen

But one thing always stays the same .... The Money Factor !



It's not so much "the money factor" as it is The Piracy Factor. It's the subtle shake down factors; it's the Grapes of Wrath on a grand scale. And you never realize that the pirates are making you walk the plank because you accept the twisted "guilt" they use to extract the blood from a turnip. You signed on the dotted line without reading the fine print. Therefore you are guilty and you accept that because ---it is what it is. You may think it is "your government" but....Rome is ruling! You are slaves of slaves.

The Golden Fleece tale still figures prominently in our day. The meaning behind this is that the fleece is weighted down at the bottom of the river so that every miniscule flake of gold that passes will be trapped and tangled within the fur. Basically it's a shake down for every last dreg one can get. Could it be that The Golden Boy, The Lamb, has laid down his life (at the bottom of the baptismal pool) and now the rest of the flock is fleeced by an outrageous story because peer pressure has never allowed them to ask questions without penalty of ostracism?




What? You don't believe there is a pirate Cult of the Dead Lamb?

Check out the Emperor's necklace!

www.britishmuseum.org...




These pirates have been around for a long time. There is also some biblical intrigue about these pirates. At Purim there is a celebration to remember the deliverance of the Jewish people from the evil Haman who had planned to exterminate them. At Purim, Jews eat a special treat called Haman's Hat. It is a tri-cornered pastry filled with poppy seeds.
Ah, yes, poppies.....



Do the poppies represent some symbolic meaning? Were people celebrating their triumph of "a great awakening " after having been lulled by some means?

Most people are familiar with the black tri-cornered pirates hat, sometimes decorated with a skull and crossbones, but there is another type of tri-cornered pirates hat that is white and much more subtle in it's symbolism. White hats are always the good guys, right?

You are probably asking yourself "What in the world does this little tangent have to do with Rome?" My point is twofold: to examine Haman to determine if he represented the Rule of Rome in his day and to see if there is a modern day equivalent to his character still in place today.



"Haman (Also known as Haman the Agagite המן האגגי, or Haman the evil המן הרשע) is the main antagonist in the Book of Esther, who, according to Old Testament tradition, was a 5th Century BC noble and vizier of the Persian empire under King Ahasuerus, traditionally identified as Artaxerxes II ." wiki

The term Agagite is an ethnonym.

"Ethnonyms can change in character over time; while originally socially acceptable, they may come to be considered offensive. For instance, the term Gypsy has been used to refer to the Roma. Other examples include Vandal, Bushman, Barbarian, and Philistine." wiki (All of these terms have a flavor characteristic of some aspect of piracy.)



Haman was also an astrologer, and when he was about to fix the time for the genocide of the Jews he first cast lots to ascertain which was the most auspicious day of the week for that purpose.[3] Each day, however, proved to be under some influence favorable to the Jews.[3] He then sought to fix the month, but found that the same was true of each month; thus, Nisan was favorable to the Jews because of the Passover sacrifice; Iyyar, because of the small Passover.[3] But when he arrived at Adar he found that its zodiacal sign was Pisces, and he said, "Now I shall be able to swallow them as fish which swallow one another" (Esth. R. vii.; Targ. Sheni iii.).[3]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haman_%28Bible%29


You will note that Haman was also a "vizier".
The word entered into English in 1562, from the Turkish vezir ("counsellor"), and from the Arabic wazir ("viceroy"),...
Linguistically, it is related to the Latin word vicarius.
Vicarius is a Latin word, meaning substitute or deputy. It is the root and origin of the English word "vicar"....
(And if you look up the word "vicarius" on wiki, you will see part of Proto's new avatar and where it originates)

Concerning the etymology of the name 'Haman":
"It has been associated with the Persian word Hamayun meaning "illustrious".[7] (naming dictionaries typically list it as meaning "magnificent"), or with the sacred drink Haoma.[7]" wiki

The sacred drink Haoma was made from plant material and blood.

Lets connect the dots: Pisces, fish,--maybe a tri-cornered fish hat? a white pirate's hat? vicar who drinks a plant and blood drink (btw, until a few years ago all French wines imported into USA contained blood which has been traditionally used in winemaking for more years than you can count! "Transubstantiation" may be the joke in your face!)

Do you see Rome?



posted on Nov, 1 2010 @ 11:59 PM
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reply to post by Alethea
 



I like it !!

I see we (on ATS) now have another "agreeing" subject !

Great post by Alethea !

All Roads from Rome Lead to Everywhere Else.
edit on 2-11-2010 by xuenchen because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2010 @ 12:18 AM
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Originally posted by Jordan River

Few things I would like to see is much more vatican finger pointing as judaism.



One question I could never find an answer for was why Haman hated the Jews so much and why he plotted their extermination. And I think you are pointing your finger in the wrong direction with statements as the one above. As another poster said, there is a lot of "cloaking" involved. The old testament metaphor of the scapegoat is valid even today; it goes on all the time.

Do you think Rome is really "an Italian thing"?




I don't believe Rome originated in Rome.

Why does the Pope have a black stone on his throne?
i.dailymail.co.uk...



posted on Nov, 2 2010 @ 12:39 AM
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reply to post by Alethea
 



Later, in the 290s, the emperor Diocletian carried out a series of administrative reforms, ushering the period of the Dominate. These reforms also saw the number of Roman provinces increased, and the creation of a new administrative level, the diocese. The dioceses, initially twelve, grouped several provinces, each with its own governor. The dioceses were headed by a vicarius, or, more properly, by a vices agens praefectorum praetorio ("deputy of the praetorian prefects"). An exception was the Diocese of Oriens, which was headed by a comes.


The interesting things about the vicarius, is they usually were in charge of a diocese. This was a grouping of Roman provinces.

Most should be familiar with the word diocese, because the Catholic Church has the world carved up into dioceses.

Now when you consider that Serbsta provided the U.S. Law that gives the Pope who is also a vicarius, the Vicar of Christ, or Christ's substitue the right to veto and strike down any law passed by Congress, and then realize that our own nation is carved up into dioceses, what you see is that we do in fact live in a collection of Roman States that the Pope has a lot of control over through that ability to veto any of our laws.

Amazingly none of these things are hidden, they just aren't really presented to us truthfully or fully.

Now when you consider there is almost no nation on Earth that does not have a Catholic Church and is not carved up into Dioceses then you begin to see, in fact how Rome has colonized almost the entire world, and has a hidden system of government to rule over them.

When you further then consider that vicarius is the official substitute for an official, and in the Pope's case he is the official substitute for God on earth, and you begin to recognize every where God appears in and on official things, like our money, pledges, and oaths, we are all constantly engaged in a Roman created system of religious ritual without even knowing it, literally every time we spend a dollar we are taking part in a religious ceremony by proclaiming we Trust in God when we spend it, or recieve one in exchange for labor, goods or services.

So sometimes dozens of times a day we are paying homage to the Pope, and pledging our trust to him, in all these ceremonies that we don't even recognize as ceremonies, but subtly reinforce a system of control that creates and frames our reality and binds us all together in it, and that it's Rome who created all these systems, thus are reality, and that is how they rule us, even when we aren't religious, or aren't catholic, or even swear up and down we would never submit to the Pope or Rome.

Yet we do, day after day, everytime we spend a dollar, or obey the direction and laws of our officials who all take oaths to God to gain their office, that God being the vicarius of Christ, his official substitute on earth.

Rome rules us very easily, because they created all the systems, so even though they provide us the illusion of freedom, and sovereignty through nation, what we are free to do, is only live by and through the systems that they created for us.

Meanwhile back in Rome, they do have the whole world carved up, and control the international economy, because they are the basis of our entire currency system, which is just pieces of payer, extolling us to trust in God.

Rome literally owns the entire world, with us simply paying rent to them for the privelege of living in it and the systems they create to govern how we live in it.

So when George Bush says he was walking in the Rose Garden and God told him to invade Iraq, can we really honestly say, he wasn't honestly saying, the Vicar of Christ was on the phone with him and told him to do it.

Can we really say, the Vicar of Christ didn't order him to do it?

Can we really honestly say the Pope doesn't have that power, when every system that frames our reality by literally forcing us to use them, because it's the only way to buy a loaf of bread, or have a place to sleep at night?

We really do live in Rome, and the only reason we really don't understand it, is because we just don't understand what all these words really mean, and when we look up the meanings and we ask the next guy, they just say, nah that's not true, besides I would never listen to the Pope anyway, I am not religious, he doesn't control me.

No he just controls everything around you!

All these words exist for a reason, they really mean something, and while we don't often recognize it, or want to admit that they have the real meaning they do, they really do mean what they mean, and they really are real.

Our whole nation and the world is carved in dioceses, and so you really understand, how they convince us it really doesn't mean anything, is by claiming it's all just part of a church and a religion we don't even have to go to and belong to.

Yet the Pope doesn't bow to the President of the United States, or the King of Saudi Arabia, or the Queen of England or the Prime Minister of Israel, they bow to him and kiss his ring.

This is Rome, and we are being cheated, they owe us bread, they owe us circuses! Public baths, and orgies too!

They convinced us we are better than that, that civilized human beings don't sit in a coloseum watching people kill each other for sport, instead they trained us to go out in the world, in the name of God and kill people who don't believe and take their land and resources and give it to our state, who can control us through controlling those resources and making the systems that we have to follow to get them and have some to live, systems created by Rome.

I say it's time to tear it all down.

Really and truly.



posted on Nov, 2 2010 @ 01:35 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Now when you consider that Serbsta provided the U.S. Law that gives the Pope who is also a vicarius, the Vicar of Christ, or Christ's substitue the right to veto and strike down any law passed by Congress, and then realize that our own nation is carved up into dioceses, what you see is that we do in fact live in a collection of Roman States that the Pope has a lot of control over through that ability to veto any of our laws.


Serbsta's post with that documentation was AWESOME. I think he deserves an APPLAUSE for finding such an obscure tidbit that is so majorly important in verification. I have for a long time sensed that connection, but without the documented proof that Serbsta provided...well, how far can you really get on a hunch? Kudos and thanks to Serbsta!



Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
we are all constantly engaged in a Roman created system of religious ritual without even knowing it, literally every time we spend a dollar we are taking part in a religious ceremony by proclaiming we Trust in God when we spend it, or recieve one in exchange for labor, goods or services.



And so many people get bent out of shape about "taking god off the money". They are not at all aware of the origins and the ties. They know not what they do. I really do not see the economy "crashing". I think it will dovetail into a new monetary system very easily. But it will cost your integrity and some of us will be left out in the cold.


Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
So sometimes dozens of times a day we are paying homage to the Pope, and pledging our trust to him, in all these ceremonies that we don't even recognize as ceremonies, but subtly reinforce a system of control that creates and frames our reality and binds us all together in it, and that it's Rome who created all these systems, thus are reality, and that is how they rule us, even when we aren't religious, or aren't catholic, or even swear up and down we would never submit to the Pope or Rome.


Adhesions work the same way; a subtle reinforcement of the system and you don't even realize the binding attachments. For example, I wonder how many people realize that they are suckered in through a subtle "pledge" system? In some states now, in order to get *certain privileges* you have to show the deed to your home. There is no explanation as to why; they do not come out an say it is collateral or anything like that, but I believe you are putting it up as a pledge in order to have these privileges that have become necessary to us in daily life.



Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Yet we do, day after day, everytime we spend a dollar, or obey the direction and laws of our officials who all take oaths to God to gain their office, that God being the vicarius of Christ, his official substitute on earth.



And since they all take an oath on the bible this means that they uphold the writings in that book and stand under them. Therefore, we can find our way out using the same book.



Jesus said to them, “The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who exercise authority over them call themselves Benefactors. But you are not to be like that. Luke 22: 25-26




Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
They convinced us we are better than that, that civilized human beings don't sit in a coloseum watching people kill each other for sport, instead they trained us to go out in the world, in the name of God and kill people who don't believe and take their land and resources and give it to our state,


"They"=TPTB, the system. They may have set up the system, but the people have acquiesced and sold their souls for privileges. It is understood that governments are the voice of the people. And individuals must accept their own responsibility for what has happened and what is happening. You all can't just blame the illusive undefined PTB or the ambiguous "Rome". Every member of society who supports this system has blood on their hands. ALL are blood guilty. Even if you all are silent and accept the privileges, you are still blood-guilty by tacit agreement. Even if you all didn't personally write the scriptures on the bullets, you help to make it possible with your money and your votes, whether your candidate won or not.



posted on Nov, 2 2010 @ 03:30 AM
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Holy crap... busy, busy week.

Again, went back to my old bookmarks and followed on from some leads. This is just a small tidbit I came across and thought I'd post it by itself for now, I do have leads that go on from this point and I will continue with them soon. This is in regards to the so called Constitution of the United States and in what way it is actually serving the people of the United States. It came up from a somewhat infamous court battle from 1854.

Just look at what a constitution and a consitutor are actually defined as by legal definition:



CONSTITUTOR, civil law
CONSTITUTOR, civil law. He who promised by a simple pact to pay the debt of another; and this is always a principal obligation. Inst. 4, 6, 9. another; and this is always a principal obligation. Inst. 4, 6, 9.


So we know what a constitutor is, so what does that make a constitution then?



CONSTITUTUM
constitutum n. [Latin "agreed arrangement"] Roman law. 1.

An agreement to pay an existing debt, either one's own or another's, on a fixed day.


Under Roman law:

constitutum debiti proprii - to pay one's own debt
constitutum debiti - to pay another's debt

Definitions sourced from: Encyclopedic dictionary of Roman law
By Adolf Berger

So at this stage I was thinking to myself. A constitution is in reality, a legally binding document which forces one to repay debts. I was aware that there were certain debts owed to King George of Britain and I was aware that these debts would have had to have been paid from the United States. But the people weren't tied to the official 'Constitution' yet were they?

I emailed my librarian/developing-historian friend last Tuesday night, he got back to me with some info yesterday morning. He told me to look into actual Public Acts as they were the only way that something like this (tying the people to the Constitution and in effect making them the debtors) could have been passed. And he did find something...

United States Statutes at Large, Volume 1 by United States Congress
Public Acts of the First Congress, 2nd Session, Chapter 39


Chapter 39 is titled...

Chap. ⅩⅩⅩⅨ.—An Act making further provision for the payment of the debts of the United States.

I don't know... still all over the place. Sorry I'm just dumping all this scattered info everywhere, really don't have time to sort and analyze properly. Check it though, even if the people are bound by the Constitution and are therefore in effect, slaves, to the creditors of the United States, they cannot use the Constitution to protect themselves.

Check this case out:
PADELFORD, FAY & Co. plaintiffs in error v.
THE MAYOR AND ALDERMEN OF THE CITY
OF SAVANNAH.
Ga. 1854.

www.scribd.com...

In it, the judge concluded:



"But, indeed, no private person has a right to complain, by suit in court, on the ground of a breach of the Constitution, the Constitution, it is true, is a compact but he is not a party to it."


WHAT?! You are a slave to the document but you cannot use it to protect yourself?

This is tied in with the UK/U.S. element of the general theory.



posted on Nov, 2 2010 @ 04:03 AM
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Man!! page 132 of a thread and it's as good as this page, awesome I've never seen the like on the web anywhere, stars are not good enough for the level of post quality I see here, I'm buzzing my tits off and at risk of dying from an information overdose. Vive la revolution!!
edit on 2-11-2010 by Thepreye because: 132 for 131



posted on Nov, 2 2010 @ 08:21 AM
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Originally posted by Thepreye
Man!! page 132 of a thread and it's as good as this page, awesome I've never seen the like on the web anywhere, stars are not good enough for the level of post quality I see here, I'm buzzing my tits off and at risk of dying from an information overdose. Vive la revolution!!
edit on 2-11-2010 by Thepreye because: 132 for 131


Serbsta's last post was so excellent that I alerted staff it deserves applause! You are indeed correct my friend, the continued quality additions on this page, including all those made by Alethea too, really display not only why this thread has been so highly flagged, but why people should check in on it frequently to see the latest additions being added as we sequay into debunking 2,000 years of official lies to get to the dark unsettling heart of the truth of our world.

Considering the more we learn, and how much we have to learn, from such a lengthy period of time, there are bound to be constant additions that are really note worthy when such excellent researchers as Serbsta and Alethea and many others are constantly devling into new aspects and then sharing their findings here.

Some truly excellent information brought forth on this page.



posted on Nov, 2 2010 @ 09:30 AM
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reply to post by serbsta
 


This was another great find Serbsta, excellent work.

A pretty unsettling discovery too, but I fear that it just the half of it. Yes, as I have long contended we were obligated to pay back the debt through the Constitution that King George stated had to be written in the Treaty of Paris that concluded the Revolutionary War. The debt was for the land itself and loans against it, that the original owner was the Pope who decreed everything west of the Azores to belong to Rome in 1491 in the Papal Bulla of that year. Further that the King stipulated that a Census must be conducted every 10 years, so they could determine the payments based on our ability to pay based on how many of us were here working the land. Finally that both the decree to write a constitution and conduct a census was not made in his capacity as King of England, but prince, prince elector and arch treasurer of the Holy Roman Empire, and of the United States itself, where he declared in the opening paragraph he was the United States prince elector and arch treasurer as well, literally decreeing us into existence and the basic terms in which we could exist.

So there is where the tie-ins to Rome are besides just the language. The Pope in 1491 gave all undiscovered lands west of the Azores and Canaries to the Kings of Aragon and Spain to administer as vassals. The Court of Madrid was one of the three Holy Roman Empire Courts that were official parties to the Treaty of Paris ending the Revolutionary War and establishing the United States. So even though none of the colonies were Spanish, Spanish administered or seemingly Spanish owned, the King of Spain had a clear say in the Treaty as a Creditor and prince of the Holy Roman Empire too. This partially establishes that at that time in 1781 that Spain still had a controlling interest that began with the Papal Bulla of 1491.

So besides the word itself constitution being Roman in origin, once you read the treaty and the Bulla you starts to see all the direct tie-ins through titles and decrees, and further the strange reality that even though we Americans supposedly won the war, King George was dictating the terms of the treaty!

Now here is the really bad news, while we were all basically obligated to pay or rent or lease these holdings from Rome with the King of England acting as the arch-treasurer of the United States to process those payments it does appear we failed to pay them back and went into default on the loan when the United States declared bankruptcy in the early 1930’s and incorporated all the States into corporate entities under Washington D.C. and confiscated by decree all Gold being held privately by the citizens.

So up to that point we were just debt slaves, now we appear to just be slaves period! With a 13 trillion dollar national debt, that works out to around 27, 083 per man woman and child, but a currency pool that if also equally divided of 353 per man woman and child, there is literally no way to pay back the debt.

So since that time we have just been manipulated through debt, and our politicians to adopt the perspectives on world events, that force us to play world policeman and enforcer as we fight one war after another, to ensure that the world is structured the way Rome wants it, culling and controlling the population through those wars, and determining our national perspective and attitudes while giving us the illusion because we appear to be dictating international events through gunboat diplomacy and military and moral might, that we are not only free, but superior to every other nation, appealing to our egos to keep abiding by this system for the illusion of supremacy it affords us.

Meanwhile though Rome has saddled us with the foreign owned Federal Reserve to control our money thus our economy by limiting it in a way where we can not pay back the debt, and an ever decreasing quality of life, and making us a party to more and more obligations through the U.N. that impinge on our sovereignty while Congress passes on average 1 and 1 half laws a week to add to the 600,000 rules that govern every aspect of our existence including 280,000 of them that attach a criminal penalty if violated.

All the while manipulating the debt to get us to accept we must tolerate enjoying less and less, but also that possibility that the nation itself will fail again and to begin encouraging us to want a new system, a new system Rome will no doubt step in with, through some mechanism like the U.N. or a new union of other existing nations that border us.

This is the reality of the grand deception, that because they offer us substitute meanings for these words, like Constitution, health of the body, we fail to recognize that legally the oldest meaning of the word is what the legal definition is, just as in diocese.

Lot’s to consider for those who really want to understand the matrix that binds us all together in a reality that I contend there is so much evidence that Rome creates and controls.

Great addition, thanks.



posted on Nov, 2 2010 @ 09:40 AM
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reply to post by serbsta
 


Adding on from earlier post... Article Six of the U.S "Constitution" states:



All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.


Re-read that in light of my last post. It's so in your face it almost makes you laugh.

Article Six Section One of the U.S. Constitution is a debt collecting mechanism. I wonder if anyone actually asked, in court, who this debt was for?
edit on 2/11/2010 by serbsta because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2010 @ 11:00 AM
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Early legal codes

Excavations in modern-day Iraq by Ernest de Sarzec in 1877 found evidence of the earliest known code of justice, issued by the Sumerian king Urukagina of Lagash ca 2300 BC. Perhaps the earliest prototype for a law of government, this document itself has not yet been discovered; however it is known that it allowed some rights to his citizens. For example, it is known that it relieved tax for widows and orphans, and protected the poor from the usury of the rich.
Detail from Hammurabi's stele shows him receiving the laws of Babylon from the seated sun deity.

After that, many governments ruled by special codes of written laws. The oldest such document still known to exist seems to be the Code of Ur-Nammu of Ur (ca 2050 BC). Some of the better-known ancient law codes include the code of Lipit-Ishtar of Isin, the code of Hammurabi of Babylonia, the Hittite code, the Assyrian code and Mosaic law.
[edit] Later constitutions
Diagram illustrating the classification of constitutions by Aristotle.

In 621 BC a scribe named Draco codified the cruel oral laws of the city-state of Athens; this code prescribed the death penalty for many offences (nowadays very severe rules are often called "Draconian"). In 594 BC Solon, the ruler of Athens, created the new Solonian Constitution. It eased the burden of the workers, and determined that membership of the ruling class was to be based on wealth (plutocracy), rather than by birth (aristocracy). Cleisthenes again reformed the Athenian constitution and set it on a democratic footing in 508 BC.

Aristotle (ca 350 BC) was one of the first in recorded history to make a formal distinction between ordinary law and constitutional law, establishing ideas of constitution and constitutionalism, and attempting to classify different forms of constitutional government. The most basic definition he used to describe a constitution in general terms was "the arrangement of the offices in a state". In his works Constitution of Athens, Politics, and Nicomachean Ethics he explores different constitutions of his day, including those of Athens, Sparta, and Carthage. He classified both what he regarded as good and bad constitutions, and came to the conclusion that the best constitution was a mixed system, including monarchic, aristocratic, and democratic elements. He also distinguished between citizens, who had the right to participate in the state, and non-citizens and slaves, who did not.

The Romans first codified their constitution in 449 BC as the Twelve Tables. They operated under a series of laws that were added from time to time, but Roman law was never reorganised into a single code until the Codex Theodosianus (AD 438); later, in the Eastern Empire the Codex repetitæ prælectionis (534) was highly influential throughout Europe. This was followed in the east by the Ecloga of Leo III the Isaurian (740) and the Basilica of Basil I (878).

The Edicts of Ashoka established constitutional principles for the 3rd century BC Maurya king's rule in Ancient India.

Many of the Germanic peoples that filled the power vacuum left by the Western Roman Empire in the Early Middle Ages codified their laws. One of the first of these Germanic law codes to be written was the Visigothic Code of Euric (471). This was followed by the Lex Burgundionum, applying separate codes for Germans and for Romans; the Pactus Alamannorum; and the Salic Law of the Franks, all written soon after 500. In 506, the Breviarum or "Lex Romana" of Alaric II, king of the Visigoths, adopted and consolidated the Codex Theodosianus together with assorted earlier Roman laws. Systems that appeared somewhat later include the Edictum Rothari of the Lombards (643), the Lex Visigothorum (654), the Lex Alamannorum (730) and the Lex Frisionum (ca 785). These continental codes were all composed in Latin, whilst Anglo-Saxon was used for those of England, beginning with the Code of Ethelbert of Kent (602). In ca. 893, Alfred the Great combined this and two other earlier Saxon codes, with various Mosaic and Christian precepts, to produce the Doom Book code of laws for England.

en.wikipedia.org...

there is much more but I don't think I will add anymore to this quote.

Detail from Hammurabi's stele shows him receiving the laws of Babylon from the seated sun deity.

articlesandblogs.ezreklama.com...
ТHЕ PYLYP ORLYK CONSTITUTION, 1710

The Pylyp Orlyk Constitution is regarded as the first in the world to establish the separation of government powers into the legislative, executive and judicial branches. The document consists of a preamble and sixteen articles. According to the constitution, legislative power was vested in the General Council (parliament), which was to hold three annual sessions. The Hetman and the General Staff Council constituted the executive branch, while legal matters fell under the jurisdiction of the General Court. Thus the Ukrainian constitution of 1710 preceded those of the United States, France and Poland, and attested to the democratic thinking of the Ukrainian Cossack elite.


Dayam, this one is interesting.
edit on 123030p://bTuesday2010 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2010 @ 11:10 AM
link   
Codex Theodosianus
penelope.uchicago.edu...*/Codex_Theodosianus.html

Breviarium
penelope.uchicago.edu...*/Breviarium.html
www.thelatinlibrary.com...
THE CLASSICS PAGE
www.thelatinlibrary.com...

webu2.upmf-grenoble.fr...


Many of the Germanic peoples that filled the power vacuum left by the Western Roman Empire in the Early Middle Ages codified their laws. One of the first of these Germanic law codes to be written was the Visigothic Code of Euric (471). This was followed by the Lex Burgundionum, applying separate codes for Germans and for Romans; the Pactus Alamannorum; and the Salic Law of the Franks, all written soon after 500. In 506, the Breviarum or "Lex Romana" of Alaric II, king of the Visigoths, adopted and consolidated the Codex Theodosianus together with assorted earlier Roman laws. Systems that appeared somewhat later include the Edictum Rothari of the Lombards (643), the Lex Visigothorum (654), the Lex Alamannorum (730) and the Lex Frisionum (ca 785). These continental codes were all composed in Latin, whilst Anglo-Saxon was used for those of England, beginning with the Code of Ethelbert of Kent (602). In ca. 893, Alfred the Great combined this and two other earlier Saxon codes, with various Mosaic and Christian precepts, to produce the Doom Book code of laws for England.

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

Doom book
en.wikipedia.org...


The Constitution of Medina (Arabic: صحیفة المدینه‎, Ṣaḥīfat al-Madīna), also known as the Charter of Medina, was drafted by the Islamic prophet Muhammad. It constituted a formal agreement between Muhammad and all of the significant tribes and families of Yathrib (later known as Medina), including Muslims, Jews, and pagans.[6][7] The document was drawn up with the explicit concern of bringing to an end the bitter inter tribal fighting between the clans of the Aws (Aus) and Khazraj within Medina. To this effect it instituted a number of rights and responsibilities for the Muslim, Jewish, and pagan communities of Medina bringing them within the fold of one community—the Ummah.[8]



Agreements and Constitutions of Laws and Freedoms of the Zaporizian Host can be acknowledged as the first European constitution in a modern sense.[15] It was written in 1710 by Pylyp Orlyk, hetman of the Zaporozhian Host.





edit on 113030p://bTuesday2010 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2010 @ 11:53 AM
link   
I remember reading this many moons ago, so I thought I would throw it in,
americanindianoriginalpeo.tribe.net...


There are several other documents now available in various places which refer to the original founding of the Iroquois, and they seem to substantiate this document as probably truthful and accurate. This version was prepared by Arthur C. Parker, Archeolo gist of the State Museum in New York in 1915, and published by the University of the State of New York as Bulletin 184 on April 1, 1916. It is entitled: The Constitution of the Five Nations - or - The Iroquois Book of the Great Law. In it, you will find close parallels to our Executive, Legislative and Judiciary branches of government as originally described in our U. S. Constitution.


The Six Nations:
www.ratical.org...

www.sacred-texts.com...



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