All Roads Lead to Rome

Originally posted by serbsta
There are enough similarities to conclude that the deified Caesar figure had an impact on the Christ figure, but not enough to conclude that they were one in the same. You really can't go further on the issue.

Not so fast there, Serbsta! There is another similarity and I don't think it has been brought up (if it has, excuse the post).

As Proto pointed out much earlier, Caesar was wounded and escaped. Now, I am finding there is also an intrigue that the Christ figure also was wounded and escaped. And the clues are documented in the scriptures. It leads me to wonder if the crucifixion story could be metaphorical in all of it's content.

Here is some information to ponder:

According to early Greek texts, Barabbas' full name was Jesus Barabbas.[8] Later texts shorten his name to just Barabbas.

A translation of Bar-Abbas would be son of the father. Jesus often referred to God as "father", and Jesus' use of the Aramaic word Abba survives untranslated in Mark 14:36 (in most English translations). This has led some authors (named below) to speculate that "bar-Abbâ" could actually be a reference to Jesus himself as "son of the father".

Hyam Maccoby and some other scholars have asserted that Jesus was known as "bar-Abba", because of his custom of addressing God as 'Abba' in prayer, and referring to God as Abba in his preaching.[10] It follows that when the Jewish crowd clamored before Pontius Pilate to "free Bar Abba" they could have meant Jesus. Anti-Semitic elements in the Christian church, the argument goes, altered the narrative to make it appear that the demand was for the freedom of somebody else (a brigand or insurrectionist) named "Barabbas". This was, the theory goes, part of the tendency to shift the blame for the crucifixion of Jesus towards the Jews and away from the Romans.

Benjamin Urrutia, co-author of The Logia of Yeshua: The Sayings of Jesus, agrees with Maccoby and others who say that Yeshua Bar Abba or Jesus Barabbas must be none other than Jesus of Nazareth, and that the choice between two prisoners is a fiction. However, Urrutia opposes the notion that Jesus may have either led or planned a violent insurrection. Jesus was a strong advocate of "turning the other cheek" – which means not submission but strong and courageous, though nonviolent, defiance and resistance. Jesus, in this view, must have been the planner and leader of the Jewish nonviolent resistance to Pilate's plan to set up Roman Eagle standards on Jerusalem's Temple Mount. The story of this successful resistance is told by Josephus — who, curiously, does not say who was the leader, but does tell of Pilate's crucifixion of Jesus just two paragraphs later in a passage whose authenticity is heavily disputed.

en.wikipedia.org...

Also there has been detailed information revealing that the "herbs and spices" that the women brought to the tomb were for healing treatment and not for embalming.

So, there are still more parallels that could imply this bible story is more of a fantastic parable than a historical reality.

Try as you might people, The SINS of the U.K., The USA, and Trillionaire Jews do not stick to "Rome", especially The Vatican ( a separate entity from ancient pagan Rome). That you all think yourselves wise in your own minds is clear, yet of all the Bible bashers here I've noticed one simple fact... None of you have read it!
The "Rome" of Frodo's imagination ( which he admits took others to feed his illusions) is the united states of america.... You Americans alone are spreading pagan "Rome" with your nfl, "world series of baseball", las vegas, jew hollywood, lady gaga, left turn only car racing,coca cola, rotten McRonnies food, "support the troops", usa-usa-usa!!!!

In his home and throughout his public-teaching career Jesus invariably employed the positive form of exhortation. Always and everywhere did he say, 'You shall do this-you ought to do that'...He refrained from placing emphasis on evil by forbidding it, while he exalted the good by commanding its performance!

The future is bright for mankind, you see folks, this I KNOW, however between now and then a lot of liars, deceivers, spiritually retarded Krusty the clowns and imaginary frodo's must be erased from history in order for the human species of this planet to advance.

If Truth is Ugly to you, Here I AM!

Red Dawn, and Mother Orthodox Russia without the jewish bolshevik interference is an ally of mine.. Those that have an ear-Hear, those that have eyes-SEE!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Astrologia is the Latin Root Word so as usual All Roads Lead to Rome even though the practice of Astrology predates Rome.

So I plan to tie some Roman conspiratorial elements into the debate, anyone who wants to follow along over the next few days as the individual rounds within the debate take place can follow it here.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The debate coming along and very interesting, check out the link to read what's transpired so far in the debate on Astrology.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Click here for more information.


The Oppression in this Thread,,,,,,,, what a bunch of Roman Nazis!


A Brilliant Tune by The real Slim Shady!
www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by Alethea

Not so fast there, Serbsta! There is another similarity and I don't think it has been brought up (if it has, excuse the post).

As Proto pointed out much earlier, Caesar was wounded and escaped. Now

You're telling me to not go that fast?!

Re-read what you've claimed above. Caesar did not escape, there is no evidence for this. So we simply just can't assume that and pretend its true. We have evidence to support that he was murdered by a pack of his 'closest' advisers and friends. We have no evidence at all that he escaped to Seborga or wherever else this was claimed. Unfortunately, even though yours and the OP's version of the story does sound like great fiction material, it simply isn't true based on currently available evidence.

Originally posted by serbsta

Originally posted by Alethea

Not so fast there, Serbsta! There is another similarity and I don't think it has been brought up (if it has, excuse the post).

As Proto pointed out much earlier, Caesar was wounded and escaped. Now

You're telling me to not go that fast?!

Re-read what you've claimed above. Caesar did not escape, there is no evidence for this. So we simply just can't assume that and pretend its true. We have evidence to support that he was murdered by a pack of his 'closest' advisers and friends. We have no evidence at all that he escaped to Seborga or wherever else this was claimed. Unfortunately, even though yours and the OP's version of the story does sound like great fiction material, it simply isn't true based on currently available evidence.

So you can direct me to where the ashes of Caesar's actual corpse are?

In fact all you have is heresay and stories regarding this. This event led to a civil war, not a trial of those alleged to have murdered him.

We know the Romans were litigous, that they had a justice and court system similiar to our own.

The fact that no one was brought to trial suggests that the crime of murder may have not in fact happened.

We know from accounts that the Senators involved fled the scene, and Caesar's body living or dead fell into supporters hands at that time, who then conducted a hasty cremation of a shrouded corpse.

What we actually have is a very popular story already handed down for centuries that likely has incorporated who knows how many fictional elements in the process.

Yet for some bizarre reason we have seen that not Augustus but Julius is the one truly immortalized that so many things are patterned off of when it comes to Christ.

The person who would have had the strongest motive and personal gain for doing that would have been Julius and the only way he could have ensured all that beyond just blind random luck, is if he actually lived after the attack and started laying the ground work for his legacy.

Here is yet another reason why the concept of 'resurection' might be so important to the religion where the central charachter share's so many traits and similiarities with him.

Because Caesar himself benefited from a resurection after the attack and lived for another 12 years laying the ground work for the future of the Roman Empire in such a masterful plan it has been followed ever since, and that above all is why he is secretly and openly revered and respected still to this day through all these systems and practices that have survived him.

In reality your evidence is just a widely held popular belief, it lacks a body.

It lacks a criminal prosecution.

It lacks a trial.

It lacks convinctions.

It just plain lacks!

Thanks.

Originally posted by Aquarius1
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Astrologia is the Latin Root Word so as usual All Roads Lead to Rome even though the practice of Astrology predates Rome.

So I plan to tie some Roman conspiratorial elements into the debate, anyone who wants to follow along over the next few days as the individual rounds within the debate take place can follow it here.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The debate coming along and very interesting, check out the link to read what's transpired so far in the debate on Astrology.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 30-10-2010 by Aquarius1 because: (no reason given)

Thank you for letting me know about the debate. It is very interesting indeed. Funny, before I never connected Rome and Astrology together in my thinking. Don't know why. Of course it makes sense to do so now after learning a different perspective about history.

Star

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

In reality your evidence is just a widely held popular belief, it lacks a body.

It lacks a criminal prosecution.

It lacks a trial.

It lacks convinctions.

It just plain lacks!

Thanks.

Is this a joke?

"My evidence" may lack all those things, but based on what we know as of now this is the only acceptable explanation. YOUR EVIDENCE IS BASED ON NOTHING, YOU MADE IT UP, please understand this point. YOU. MADE. UP. THAT. "EVIDENCE".

Originally posted by serbsta
Unfortunately, even though yours and the OP's version of the story does sound like great fiction material, it simply isn't true based on currently available evidence.

"Currently available evidence?" Oh, is that what you want? Well, I think I have another can of worms here.

Actually, there is more blatant scriptural evidence that has been around for a long time and is still "currently available", though it seems to have been ignored. So back to the theory: could the story of Jesus have been patterned from the life of Julius Caesar?

The many Islamic and Hindu historical works recording local history and legends of kings, noblemen and saints of the areas thought to be travelled by Jesus also give evidence of a Christ like man; the Koran, for example, refers to Christ as "Issar".

www.sol.com.au...

The coins used on a daily basis in the time of Jesus were mostly bronze coins. Various references in the New Testament indicate common denominations, and sometimes even their buying power. Such is the case in the saying of Jesus (Matt 10:29) “Are not two sparrows sold for an Issar?”.

www.dannythedigger.com...

Nevermind that the phonetics of "Issar" and "Caesar" seem so similar. Is there some proof that Issar is a word or pronounciation for Caesar? Let's see.

And they came and said to him: ‘Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not? Should we pay them, or should we not?’ But knowing their hypocrisy, he said to them, ‘Why put me to the test? Bring me a denarius and let me look at it.’ And they brought one. And he said to them: ‘Whose likeness and inscription is this?’ They said to him: ‘Caesar’s.’

www.dannythedigger.com...

This dialogue can be found in scripture at Mark 12: 13-17. So the coin which is referred to as an Issar bears the likeness and inscription of Caesar. And in other "Holy Writings" one who bears the title of a Christ, or an anointed one, is referred to as Jesus in one language and Issar in another language, while describing the same person.

Jesus is Issar is Caesar.

reply to post by Alethea


I'm not talking about Caesar being Christ, I've already told you my thoughts on that.

I'm talking about your claims that Caesar survived and was moved to Seborga, a claim which was made up entirely by the OP. I could say that he was carried away to Mars and it would hold just as much weight.

Originally posted by serbsta


I'm not talking about Caesar being Christ, I've already told you my thoughts on that.

Please direct me to the post so I can refresh my memory.

Originally posted by serbsta
I'm talking about your claims that Caesar survived and was moved to Seborga, a claim which was made up entirely by the OP.

If it can be established that the story of Jesus is based on myth and loosely disguised historical Roman characters and designed toward a long range agenda of manipulation, then more proof of this "resurrection" of Caesar might be established. There are too many parallels between biblical text concerning Jesus and the historical accounts of Caesar and Roman politics to discount this hypothesis.

Why Seborga? Perhaps it's a haunted Illuminati meeting place.
wikicompany.org...:Illuminati

Originally posted by serbsta

I could say that he was carried away to Mars and it would hold just as much weight.

Not quite. The Temple of Mars was not built until after the death of Julius Caesar. Funny that you should mention Mars, as this particular Temple was built by his adopted son Augustus, to honor this god for avenging those who supposedly assassinated J.C. Incidentally, when you are world power, you get to name the gods! Augustus bestowed on the god Mars the title "Mars Ultor" which means Avenger; before this Mars was only known to be the god of agriculture and fertility. I think this serves to show that political and religious leaders are in charge of both naming and directing their puppet gods.

It's also interesting that you would use the phrase "he was carried away" because those terms describe the "death" of both Julius Caesar and the Jesus figure. Supposedly, Caesar laid on the floor for a few hours before anyone came to see about him, and he was lifted onto a litter and "carried away" by slaves. Jesus was supposedly "carried away" from his tomb by angels. And...what's still more interesting is that one source, (Mars in Roman Religion) states that the Greek root of the word from which Mars derives actually means "to be carried away". And as these gods, both the Greek Ares and the Roman Mars displayed such aggressive traits, this "carrying away" is meant as in ransacking, looting, and banditry.


According to John 19:13 Jesus' last words were "It is finished." Caesar Augustus's last words were "acta est fabula" which, translated means "so ends the story" or "the story has been completed". Could it have meant that what has happened was a story or fable?

I think that most detractors from this thread are missing the forest because of the trees.

Every law known to man has its basis in Roman concepts
The first is
1)Public International Law
And the other is
2)private international or maritime law

This was created during the Roman Empire to decide how to govern states and how to facilitate fair international trade within the empire.
AND IT HAS NEVER GONE AWAY FOR A REASON

The US Constitution (and consequently all state constitutions due to the treasonous reconstruction acts and the 14th Amendment) all allow only three types of courts of law to exist in the US proper:
Civil courtrooms, Criminal courtrooms, and guess what else Admiralty court rooms.
Yep Private International Law governs under which jurisdiction you are to be tried in the US and it is signified by the flag in the courtroom (that is why boats fly a flag in international waters)

I challenge every reader to go to EVERY courtroom and government institution and you will find gold fringe around the American flag.
This fringe signifies that we are under martial law.
The gold fringed flag was made the official flag of war by executive order in 1959 by Eisenhower.
link to explanation

There are those that call hoax on the flag issue and if that is you then let me ask you a question

If a person violates a drug code then what type of courtroom are they prosecuted?
It can't be civil because no one is suing for money
It can't be a criminal court because that requires that a law not a code be broken and the presence of a victim
Well guess what
That leaves one type of court Admiralty Court

THERE IS NOT SUCH A LEGAL ANIMAL AS A STATUTORY COURT OF LAW

As a result of this nearly disgraceful situation, nearly every code on the books is now a result of the law of the twelve tables, which is a Roman set of codes intended to control the citizens of Rome.

Every major monotheistic religion that encompasses nearly all religious followers on the face of the Earth was created under the auspices of the Roman Empire.

Our entire system of money, credits and debits, was used by the Roman Empire (although I think it was the product of Chinese innovation) and it is still in use TODAY.

Our US Armed Forces for the Corporations of America are taught Roman battle strategies.
They each belong to a legion or a squadron and they report to a General (strangely these words are Roman in origin)
These Generals then report to Senators (whose emblem contains two Roman Fasci and the House of Representatives (whose Speaker's chair is also surrounded by two Roman Fasci)

I know it is difficult to believe because it is so dad gum OBVIOUS that it made me sick to think that it took Proto to point out the truly obvious for me to notice.

It is all around us and we have been taught it since birth.
Only the important part was left out.
That we truly are a continuance of the Roman Empire.

Originally posted by Josephus23



AND IT HAS NEVER GONE AWAY FOR A REASON


It is all around us and we have been taught it since birth.
Only the important part was left out.
That we truly are a continuance of the Roman Empire.

Ah, The More You Know.....





The Temple of Caesar was also known as Cult of the Comet. This is the symbolic reference in the image above.

The Temple of Caesar was the only temple to be entirely dedicated to the cult of a Comet (Star)[1] The Comet (Star), upon its appearance some time after Caesar's murder (44 BC), was considered to be the soul of the deified Julius Caesar and the symbol of the "new birth" of Augustus as the unique Roman Ruler and Emperor. Here the account by Pliny with parts of a public speech delivered by Augustus about the Comet, his father Caesar[3] and his own destiny:

The only place in the whole world where a comet is the object of worship is a temple at Rome. [...]

en.wikipedia.org...

The "Star Prophecy" (or Star and Scepter prophecy) is a Messianic reading applied by radical Jews and early Christians to a text from the Book of Numbers 24:17:

I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: There shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth.(KJV)

which was often employed during the troubled years that led up to the Jewish Revolt, the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem (70 CE) and the suicidal last stand of the Essenes at Masada in 73 CE. The Star Prophecy appears in the Qumran texts called the Dead Sea scrolls. "This was the prophecy that was of such importance to all resistance groups in this period, including those responsible for the documents at Qumran and the revolutionaries who triggered the war against Rome, not to mention the early Christians"[1]
en.wikipedia.org...

So we still have more biblical parallels with this star/comet/prophecy.

The Star of Bethlehem is traditionally linked to the Star Prophecy in the Book of Numbers

According to modern translations, the magi told Herod that they saw the star "at its rising",[8] which suggests that they observed an astronomical object. The traditional translation of this phrase was "in the East

Ancient writers described comets as "hanging over" specific cities, just as the Star of Bethlehem was said to have "stood over" the "place" where Jesus was (the town of Bethlehem).[35]

...Firmicus Maternus, an astrologer to Roman Emperor Constantine, wrote that an occultation of Jupiter in Aries was a sign of the birth of a divine king.

"When the royal star of Zeus, the planet Jupiter, was in the east this was the most powerful time to confer kingships. Furthermore, the Sun was in Aries where it is exalted. And the Moon was in very close conjunction with Jupiter in Aries"

en.wikipedia.org...

And, of course, Aries is aka Mars. The magi, or wise men, were actually astrologers. So apparently all this Star Hoopla is based in the superstitions of ancient astrology which masqueraded as astronomy.

Oh, and btw, it is also an Eastern Star "code" greeting to ask "Have you seen the Star in the East?" There is a particular response and dialogue depending on one's status in the organization.

reply to post by Josephus23

We are a mix between the roman empire and god's nature.
The roman empire are the red cherubium that went wrong, the guys in office today.
Were all waiting for the same thing, forgiveness, better pray it comes or were all screwed "the red cherubium included"

Originally posted by Alethea

Originally posted by serbsta

Why Seborga? Perhaps it's a haunted Illuminati meeting place.
wikicompany.org...:Illuminati

Maybe it's just me but I am not seeing anything on the page from the above link except for "There is currently no text in this page, you can search for this page title in other pages or edit this page."

I'm not being picky-unish, I seriously went to read about a haunted meeting place and there was nothing there.

Star

reply to post by Antoniastar


There was a lot of information on that link when I posted it. Names, dates, times and places sort of stuff. Old families that go waaaay back. Obviously, someone is watching and deleting as people find this information. Hopefully someone else saw the info.

Originally posted by Alethea
reply to post by Antoniastar

 

There was a lot of information on that link when I posted it. Names, dates, times and places sort of stuff. Old families that go waaaay back. Obviously, someone is watching and deleting as people find this information. Hopefully someone else saw the info.

Take care Alethea, the folk you're researching kill millions without a thought, but you were obviously on the right track re names and such, I wonder what we would find out if we researched the history of Northern Italian and Swiss banking houses or land holdings.

Originally posted by Alethea
reply to post by Antoniastar

 

There was a lot of information on that link when I posted it. Names, dates, times and places sort of stuff. Old families that go waaaay back. Obviously, someone is watching and deleting as people find this information. Hopefully someone else saw the info.

Why didn't you save it as a word document if it was so important?

I'm sure the information is available elsewhere. I'd be curious to read it.

I found a very strange visual clue that could be very telling in discerning the matter as to whether biblical writings have been loosely based on high profile characters of the past and have been renamed and fashioned into metaphors and parables.

According to Suetonius, a physician who performed the autopsy on Caesar later established that only one wound (the second one to his chest) had been fatal. Suetonius' autopsy report (the very first recorded post-mortem report in history) describes that Caesar's death was mostly attributed to blood loss from the multiple stab wounds.[13]

en.wikipedia.org...

The final wound was in the side of Jesus' chest, where, according to the New Testament, His body was pierced by the Holy Lance in order to be sure that He was dead.

en.wikipedia.org...

It is also well known that Jesus had 5 wounds: in addition to the spear wound in his side, a wound in each foot and each hand.

Due to copyright restrictions, I cannot post a picture of this painting. However, you are free to search the image---if it stays available. The painting is titled "Pieta with Saints" and the artist is Andrea Del Sarto. This painting was rendered in 1523-24 and hangs in the Palazzo Pitti in Florence, Italy. In this painting, the only wound being attended is a chest wound. In this painting, there are NO wounds shown in the hands or the feet.

reply to post by Alethea


People on average are not very astute, as Christians are taught that Christ died for our sins, and that we are in essence all imperfect as human beings because he was murdered by human beings.

Yet the truth that escapes most people is because Jesus was alleged to have been resurected 3 days later in fact he wasn't killed at all.

He merely suffered an assualt.

Yet despite that very obvious admission that in fact, no Jesus did not die, the foundation of the religion is based on we all have something to learn through the religion and it's rules and beliefs because we killed him.

It should be referred to as the attempted murder of Christ therefore.

That he almost died for our sins but thought about it and decided not too.

Yet one could also conclude that if Christ was patterned off of Caesar, and Christ did not die, but was ressurected but chose not to return to his followers and deciples and Jerusalem that Caesar there for did the same, recovered from his wounds even while the state was convincing everyone he was dead, just as the state and later church convinces everyone Jesus was crucified and murdered, when no in fact he recovered and simply did not bother to return.

So while some contend it's rediculous to believe Caesar survived and recovered, most people genuinely believe that Christ was resurrected and survived, off of scant little evidence to support it since he did not return to the people, and his actual body or grave has never been identified or found.

Regarding Christ's case is yet another example of how a well crafted story with no evidence explains why it has no evidence, well you see he was killed, for our sins really, but he did resurrect himself proving he was the son of God since you or I can not resurrect ourselves, and therefore he must be the son of God. he must have resurrected himself because there was no body to bury, thus proving he resurrected himself because there was no body to bury, but because the Pharissees would have just attempted to kill him again, he didn't bother to go back to show everyone he arose from the dead, and left to rejoin his Father in heaven.

Each element of the story is designed to explain away why there is no evidence for the portion of the story the precedes it, with some fantastic new element that supports it, that then leads to another element that explains why there is no evidence for that ellement, that new element supports that, which then leads to yet another step and ellement that explains why there is no evidence for that one.

Its really very clever as they wove all these stories to be self supportive without one shred of evidence, and actually use the lack of evidence to support the whole story.

It really is as genious as it is diabolical.