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All Roads Lead to Rome

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posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 12:06 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Wow, PT...when you said this thread was going to have a lot of stuff you weren't joking.

I am halfway through the OP and will comment more later. Your take on why the Apostles founded the religion, and not Christ, is very interesting.

Of course, the one piece of evidence that you need to tie this all together is your source for Caesar living in Seborga after the Ides of March assassination. Without that, the skeptics will not relent.


The thread has a plot turn on the 2nd or 3rd page that will blow your mind!

You don't even know how epic this thread is until you get to why it was really, really published on the 25th of April!

It sure turns out it wasn't for Earth Day!



oh man you got my brain hurting...

we just "celebrated" Anzac Day here in Australia and NZ
a day we commonly share amoungst us as the day Britain sent Australians and New Zealanders into an un-winable battle that cost many many thousands of lives
on the Gallipoli Penisula,
in Turkey
close to where Ancient Troy is !!!

The Gallipoli campaign took place at Gallipoli peninsula in Turkey from 25 April 1915 to 9 January 1916, during the First World War. A joint British and French operation was mounted to capture the Ottoman capital of Constantinople, and secure a sea route to Russia. The attempt failed, with heavy casualties on both sides.
en.wikipedia.org...

and we see this Roman Festival also

Robigalia: April 25 A festival intended to protect corn from blight. During Robigalia, in a special grove outside of the city walls, offerings were given to Robiga. Rust coloured dogs and sheep were also sacrificed to him at the 5th milestone along the Via Claudia in order to ask for his help in keeping blight and mildew from entering the city limits.
www.musesrealm.net...

Lambs to the slaughter, sacrificed by the British.

maybe a loooooooong connection to draw but , you know, it's interesting




posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 12:11 AM
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PT, I have been a member of this site for only a couple of weeks but I follow your threads to an extent my wife doesn't like you. I've been waiting for this, so I could show her what kind of vision you portray of our history. I'm sure by now you've gotten an awful lot of bland thank yous but one more won't pop your ego!



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 12:18 AM
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he calls the antichrist the man beast.

the problem i have had with this in the past is that i was under the impression that it would be exceedingly hard to convince anybody that resurrection from death is a miracle (i should know), so how is this resurrection gonna impress people today in the age of modern medicine? it wouldn't. what does it mean!



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 12:18 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Nicely done Travelar.
One question..
Would you say that the folks like myself which believe all religions are false, and that each person must follow there own path to enligtenment. And that the path is long. As to the wanderer of the wilderness of steel and stone out upon the moutains of mashu, down by the river of light, and out into infinity. By what you expose my kind are the ones in the silence, for standing up and giving the Message to the masses like you have tried, only brings Doom to ourselves. Remember they always Kill the messanger.

It is better to work against these evil men from the shadows, learn to divide and conquor them with there own doctrines. For there is no ego, only silence in the cool wind, and thundering oceans..


Again nicely doen Travaler.



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 12:20 AM
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Historical fact mixed with pseudo history.. though I will give you some credit: History IS written by the victor, and the vast majority of the time what we preseive as "fact" is in fact false information .. I have found the typical reason for such false information to be ignorance and a lack of will to teach actual fact- or maybe I should say, the closest to fact that we know -- History is theory .. because we were not there.

However.. Rome fell. It fell actually before the Mother Church truly took hold of Europe .. Rome was always a vistage in the post-roman world that garnered a sort of mystical view of the way things shoulda been .. but by the time the Church became the far reaching ever powerful entity that it was .. Rome had fell. Rome is a city.. it is not a political body, it is not a group of elite.. it's simply a city -- a city seeped in history, yes, but a history riddles with corruption, crime, and poverty.

"All road lead to Rome" -- All roads lead to the IDEA of Rome .. Rome WAS the center of the Earth for quite some time -- longer than it should have lasted given it's severe, chronic corruption and passings of power. New York, Hong Kong, Moscow, London, Paris, Shanghai .. these are the NEW Romes .. and all roads lead to them. Follow the channels of wealth, for wealth is power, and power is corruption .. there you will find the masters of the universe, the Omegas of our generations .. they who run our politicians, destroy our borders, seek infinite prosperity to the few, poverty for the masses..

It doesn't take a secret society.. it doesn't take a mythical city.. it doesn't take history.. and it doesn't take divine knowledge. It takes GREED .. and greed is where the power is. Where's the power? Corporations.. Globalist.. entities like the Bilderburgs, Group of 300, G8 (Globalist) Fortune 500, etc..

I think folks like you are seeking an answer as to why some people are the way they are.. You come up with excuses like "well they are Freemasons.. they are Jews.. they are Catholics.. they are Wealthy. Etc, etc, etc.."

how about "They are HUMAN" .. And Humanity is greed.. Humanity is evil.. it's about power, control, manipulation, greed, consolidating wealth, the Ends Justify the Means..

There's massive corruption in this World.. blaming fairy tale figures only prohibits us from fixing the real problems.



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 12:22 AM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 





The 'trinity" you refer to is mind-body-spirit, 0-1-2 (god-man-woman), and left-right-spirit?


That's another good way to look at it. I think it's important for people to understand through some recognition of some type that they are more or less divided in three somewhat unique seperate identies.




The Christian religion is rife with sexual imagery (every single steeple in America represents a phallus).


Do you have any idea how distraught and inconsolable I was when the bankers and accountants said the Temples to Bacchus had to go, some real concessions did have to be made.

Oh how I have suffered for this world!




In esoteric thought, 3 is a magical number representing mankind and his higher order. "God" is our higher self. Each person is composed of a higher self, and a male and female psyche.


This is though illusionary in that “One is the loneliest number that I ever knew”, there really is but one, but in a truly low budget production (bankers and accountants I hate them, I hate them, I hate them) you have to sometimes double and triple.

Because there really is just one, it is necessary to develop both a feminine and masculine identity to project, to define these additional characters. The real problem you see my friend is when you take the 3-2-1 and end up with O. If you admit that there is just 1, then you are one step closer to none! That is in fact the heart of the problem, once you accept that there is just one, in a world you have invented of polar opposites, it’s impossible for there to be just one, but because there is not another to have combined 1 and 1 together to make another one, at the moment you realize you are one, your out! Game over. Shhhhh that’s the secret.




Regardless, i have noticed that you have said that it is not about spirituality, but about power. I present that one is the means to the others end.


We prefer to speak in terms of the beginning, because well the ending is, well an end. It was spirituality that created the one, and spirituality that eliminates the one, therefore to continue to trick the one, to believe there is more than one, it has to be a spirituality that takes one toward two towards three, even though there is but one!




The spirituality that seems to underlie much of the "secret" societies and the elite of the world is tied to The Mysteries. Francis Bacon is a prototypical examnple of this. Through indoctrination into these beliefs, certain epiphanies and insights are provided which give an advantage. it is the science of reality, religionized.


It is simply recognition of the one, and a need, to creat a role for another, to poject another into existence in that role, and so and so forth. Dividing and conquering is in fact initially about creating more divisions.

When the illusion wears thin, and looses all interest and entertainment value then you start that path back to the one.

No one likes a party pooper my friend! That's the real problem once you realize there is just one, and realize that there in fact could not be just one without another, then the one, well it is not there.

The script has to be written the roles have to be projected, the one must divide itself to create the illusion or the one just has to sit around being one, with nothing particular entertaining or fun!




I believe that many of the numbers "sacred" mreanings were derived from metaphors of each stage of the creation of the philosophers stone (the phoenix, for example, whose story describes the process of how fire, when applied to the base material for the right amount of time, creates a new being altogether. It is the perfect allegory of a transmutation in which fire is a key element.


Sentience is the key element, if the one can feel things, then the one, can much better imagine it is real, by extension, and that there are others too, by extension because if there is only one, there can not be another!




Serbsta posted a thread earlier about the excessivly long lived kings of the antedeluvian world. Perhaps the "philosophers stone", or "elixir of life" is the key to this? Perhaps this longevity is the whole secret? Perhaps this very idea is what has allowed such a patient approach on the part of Rome.


The Law of One holds the key, for if there is but one, why would one need a law for itself? So the one must bind the divisions through laws that the one creates to govern that division, yet since there is only one, one can only entertain himself so long before having to change the rules to in essence create a new script to keep one entertained. The moment one becomes bored, and realizes there is but one, then he realizes there can not be one with out another, and since there is no other there would be no way for the one to exist, and cerainly no need for a law for just it, especially when it doesn't even exist.

What one has to do to keep one's illusion entertaining and engaging, is something that the one, prefers to never think about, because then it leads to the one, realizing there is no other, and with out another one can not exist.

One prefers that the divisions, have something to believe in therefor that take them further away from the one, to create the illusion of another, rather than closer to the one, which of course can not exist without another, since there would be no way for just one to come into being and no point for it, and no need for a law for just the one.

That is why the law of one is called confusion, the one prefers all the divisions projected into their roles, remain confused about the nature of the one, that in fact does not even exist, because one can not exist without the other!




what if Caesar himself were still alive? what a prospect!!!


Ceasar most especially does not like to talk about this!




Regardless, to ignore the spirituality of the progenitors of Rome is to ignore a key element of from whence they came. The root of the society.


One likes his law of confusion, it allows one, to pretend he does not know this! Because in fact one does know where they come from, but that just reminds one, that there is no other and without another there can be no one. It takes two to combine to make one, therefore there must in fact be at least three, in for one to have come into being, and to have a purpose, and a law, as there would be no need for a law to govern just one.

This is the nature of the trinity 3-2-1 equal 0, and it is bad enough being 1, it is even worse being none!

One is very stubborn about this!

Or so one has said!




BTW, why would the "Trinity" of cities not be more like "Troy-Greece-Egypt"?


Because in order for one to believe there is another, he must believe there is also another stroy, if there is another story, then this story can be!

Since there is only one though, there can really only be one story at a time, one has not found any entertainment in trying to stage two productions at once, since one is really only one, and is fact only none, because one, can not exist without another, and it takes two to make another, so one likes the concept of 3.

The trinity that allows one the illusion of confusion that one therefore is.



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 12:26 AM
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Originally posted by Malevolence
PT, I have been a member of this site for only a couple of weeks but I follow your threads to an extent my wife doesn't like you. I've been waiting for this, so I could show her what kind of vision you portray of our history. I'm sure by now you've gotten an awful lot of bland thank yous but one more won't pop your ego!


Telll her, good news, my wife doesn't like me either!

She is not alone! I really appreciate you reading the thread and commenting, I hope she enjoyed it too.

Thanks so much!





posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 12:30 AM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


Well it's about time you showed up Rockpuck, I can't tell you how happy I am you found the time to read the thread!

I am so glad you enjoyed it.

I knew you would see eye to eye with me on all of these things.




posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 12:34 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Excellent post. I have been an amateur historian since my late teens. Your theory is an intriguing perspective on the history of western or, as I like to call it, Abrahamic civilization. I find it interesting that All Roads Lead Back To Rome. Allow me to elaborate.

Constantinople became the Capital of Rome in 330 AD. Numerous Church Councils were held to declare dogma. For many centuries the East(Balkans, Asia Minor, Middle East, North Africa) was the richest and most urbanized in the western world. Rome was little more than a decrepit slum compared to her former greatness.

That situation changed with the crowning of Charlemagne in 800. The Eastern Roman Emperor lost religious power in most of Europe. This established the beginnings of an event called The Great Schism. Combined with the rise of Islam, the East Romans entered a very slow decline.

I speculate that Islam and Rome worked together to destroy New Rome. Rome attacked by using economics. The Italian city-states gained control over the majority of Constantinople's maritime trade over the centuries. By the 1000's they owned or controlled most of it. Islam attacked by using war. The land borders of the East Romans in Asia and North Africa shrank over the centuries. The religious hostilities increased. Then came the Crusades. Rome and her subject nations travel East to fight the Muslims. These campaigns established very little militarily. From the perspective you shared with us, only one campaign was truly a success. The Fourth Crusade.

The Fourth Crusade was the deathblow to New Rome. It was sacked horribly and plundered, many treasures going to the vault of the Papacy. The East Roman empire split into successor states. Eventually Constantinople was recaptured by the East Romans. However, the damage had been done. The power of the state was broken and at the mercy of Rome to the west and Islam to the east. I think it is strange that the end of the Dark Ages roughly coincides with the Sack of Constantinople in 1204. Banking began to grow in Italy at roughly the same period. Islam began to rise again in this period following the initial Arab Conquests. In the 1600's Rome and Islam met in Central Europe and the New World began to be conquered.

This is pure speculation on my part. I think it is worth thinking about. The East Romans seemed to be free of the influence of Rome for a time. Your treatise has merely got my mind thinking about why Rome fell, how Rome regained it's preeminence and how Rome might be made to fall again.

I am also curious about the fate of East Asia. The countries there have assimilated many cultural aspects of Abrahamic Civilization but have remained culturally unique.

Once again, your post was excellent.


[edit on 26-4-2010 by My_Reality]



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 12:35 AM
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reply to post by Eye of Horus
 


Thanks my friend, are they evil men, or are they men just trying to teach us to understand evil and to shun it?

Would they actually be mad if we were to grow and take that responsibility back for ourselves, that we have ceded to them, that they do abuse?

I am not so sure, would they be as relieved as we, if we could stand up to them, in that same fashion we become determined to master our own destinies as they have learned to master theirs?

Fear is never a good thing, in my humble opinion because it is always imagined.

We might have to ask, who is more evil, the one who carries out the dasterdly act, or the one who applauds it as acceptable and at times even good.

We will never know if we do not accept responsibility for ourselves.



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 12:41 AM
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reply to post by My_Reality
 


You might want to ask yourself, were the Romans perhaps purposefully providing a magnificent new cultural center for Islam, replete with established trade routes already to it, so that there could be an easy exchange on some trade and diplmoatic levels, but still at the same time, create those schisms of which the Church has suffered many of, as it divides itself into different portions, while making sure that the most important concepts and goals are embraced?

Was Constantinople put out there as a prize, as bait, to encourage the Muslim world to grow a bit larger and reach a bit further?

And was that point they would reach in fact where Rome wanted them to be all along as part of the plan?

You have an excellent grasp of the history, the Greek, Russian, Orthodox Churches, and the Coptic ones all play a part, in it.

Thanks for a nicely thought out post.



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 12:42 AM
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Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Dock9
 


where are you coming up with all of this? where did i accuse anyone of not being something? you don't even know what my take is on the bible? and if you can show me a person in this thread, who was driven slowly insane until they died, i'll believe you.



It was a reponse to your earlier post which said:

'see what i mean? when you start the path with fervor and in earnest, the caca doth hit the fan! i didn't mention the rest of the stuff that happened to me. and i'm not going to. just suffice it to say, from the time you're old enough exercise your free will, it gets real dang ugly '



Although, perhaps if you were to explain your initial remarks more fully, you might alter the way in which it appeared to me and which in turn elicited the response to which you apparently object ?



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 12:50 AM
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reply to post by Dock9
 


yeah i was commenting how when you started your path, the trouble started in earnest. you were attacked, viciously, by a man who claimed to represent God. that's like the big guns there. came at you with a vengeance. i realize women and men and children are attacked every day, but you can really tell the difference if you compare before and after, that's been my experience, anyway



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 12:51 AM
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reply to post by 2theC
 




Robigalia: April 25 A festival intended to protect corn from blight. During Robigalia, in a special grove outside of the city walls, offerings were given to Robiga. Rust coloured dogs and sheep were also sacrificed to him at the 5th milestone along the Via Claudia in order to ask for his help in keeping blight and mildew from entering the city limits.


I didn't even know it today, when I posted this thread, but it was in fact a part of the Robigalia Festival, we are certainly being blighted at this point by this system.

Robiga by the way had a twin, and Venus was in Gemini today, to make this a most auspices day for this festival.

The person who suggested this date, did not tell me, that is why he suggested this date, but I quickly sacrificed 5 chocolate covered donuts to do my part in appeasing the God!

I hope he likes Chocolate Covered Donuts. I know I do.

They say 9-11 may have been a ritual sacrifice. It is a strange world we live in.



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 12:52 AM
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To the OP,

That was probably the longest essay I have read on the site.
I commend you for what must have been a lot of effort.

However, just commenting on your point that Christianity was generally founded upon Gnosticism, is plainly incorrect.

One point concerning this:-
John (one of the disciples of the Christ) wrote one of his letters addressing this very heresy. It is 1st John.
You also find warnings against the Gnostic teachers who are worming their way into perverting the teachings of Christ, in the letter to the church at Colosse.



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 12:53 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


eek you gotta watch this one:



he sounds like you with all the dotted lines connecting.



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 01:16 AM
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Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Dock9
 


yeah i was commenting how when you started your path, the trouble started in earnest. you were attacked, viciously, by a man who claimed to represent God. that's like the big guns there. came at you with a vengeance. i realize women and men and children are attacked every day, but you can really tell the difference if you compare before and after, that's been my experience, anyway


Ahhhhh.... I see. Then we've had a misunderstanding


But ... I'm glad it's sorted out. Sincere apologies for not grasping the meaning of your original remark

To be honest and in hindsight and experience, the lay-preacher was just the common and garden predator, plus Bible

He'd be dead now, in any case, so perhaps he's attempting to make amends from a distance

In those days, I didn't know what a 'lay preacher' was. He looked no different from the other clergy and it was only when the church to which he claimed association discovered his game, that it emerged he was simply a fakir/faker, seeking power and control via religion and ostentatious bible-clutching/thumping

Women and children are certainly common targets of predators, but then so are men and boys, although they tend not to report the abuse they've suffered because of shame and because society until recently didn't really acknowledge that males were equally victims of abuse

As well, all religions harbour predators; it's a good cover for them, rich hunting ground

Continuing to be honest, life wasn't made any more difficult when I began publicly demonstrating my Christianity. Nor did troubles cease when I stopped publicly carting a Bible around. Troubles are troubles and they're part and parcel of life, imo, regardless of one's religious affiliations or lack of

The mistake, such as it was, was entirely mine, in choosing to believe the Bible could be used as a talisman/shield -- choosing to believe that if people saw I was a 'good Christian girl', then they'd dip their hat and leave me alone. But I was little more than a child and I was scared of the city -- had no network of support or safety nets -- no one to guide or assist. I turned to the beliefs in which I'd been raised. A mistake made by many, who trust that 'men of God' are to be trusted and believed. Hence the problems being faced right now by the Roman church and of course, a continuing source of embarrassment and exposure for virtually all religious denominations on ongoing basis

It wasn't the pathetic lay-preacher who turned me from my religion, either. In fact, I haven't turned entirely from it. I simply outgrew it to a widening degree. It didn't satisfy my questions about its contradictions and limitations (and manipulations, exploitations). And the true God will have no problem with me or that, I'm confident. For isn't it said that God knows every feather on the humblest of birds ? If so, then God will be happy that I utilized whatever intelligence he provided me (including curiosity, the need to question, the drive towards true spirituality, etc.) and remained true to myself. I expect that much of my God

Best regards




.

[edit on 26-4-2010 by Dock9]



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 01:23 AM
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reply to post by undo
 


This is a classic example of the true power of the Pope.

A fairly recent one too.




(ANSA) - Rome, May 7 - The Taleban have warned Pope Benedict XVI to help stop alleged attempts to convert Muslims in Afghanistan, in order to prevent ''serious consequences''.

The apparent threat appeared on a Taleban-linked website Thursday after Arab-language network Al Jazeera showed US soldiers in Afghanistan holding copies of the Bible translated into local languages.

''The Islamic Emirate in Afghanistan asks Pope Benedict XVI to act to stop the foolish and irresponsible actions of the crusaders upsetting the feelings of Muslim rebels, without awaiting the consequences of a severe reaction,'' said a Taleban message on the website, alemarah1.org.

''The Taleban forcefully exhort the mujaheddin, scholars and all religious circles to control the activities of the invaders and crusaders, and not allow anyone to preach religions except Islam,'' the message said.

Al Jazeera showed US soldiers in Bagram, not far from Kabul, with a pile of Bibles translated into the two local languages.

The US army subsequently said that ''any form of religious proselytism by troops is prohibited'' and assured that the bibles had been ''confiscated and destroyed''.

Trying to convert Muslims is a crime in Afghanistan and other Islamic countries.

The warning was issued amid mounting protests in Afghanistan against civilian deaths in recent US bombing raids.

It also came on the eve of the the pope's week-long trip to the Holy Land.



IslamInAction

Now I remember when this actually happened and it made the breaking alternative news forum here on ATS, and most people said, "Wow, the Taliban sure are dumb, why would they warn the Pope to put an end to this, when it's the U.S. Army and the President of the United States that commands it.

The truth is, that the real players, know who is actually in charge.

They addressed it to the Pope, because if the order had come from the Pope for the U.S. Army to do it, only the Pope could rescind the order. If the U.S. Army under the Command of the U.S. President was doing it on their own, only the Pope, would have the Power to command the President to stop the practice.

The truth will slip out there from time to time, if you are actually paying attention, and understanding that everything you see, has a significance.



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 01:37 AM
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I'm just going to say" Damn you".

Now I have to read this whole thread through!


It looks like you've undertaken an exceptional amount of work to get this out here,so thanks for your efforts!



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 01:47 AM
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Carpe Diem?

More like Carpe Testes !





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