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All Roads Lead to Rome

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posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Aquarius1
 



the problem here is that you've let the papal authority and later, the atheistic text references to papal authority, dictate to you, the definition of "christanity." allow me to illustrate:

prophecy (what is it?)
healing with "miraculous powers" (what is it?)
walking on water (what is it?)
speaking other languages (some not even from this planet!) (what is it?)
translating languages from all over the known and unknown dimensions (what is it?)
manipulating gravity and/or space-time (what is it?)


Where did I say I get my information from the atheistic text references to papal authority and that it dictates to me? I have not read any such thing, my information comes from the Pagan writings long before there was a Roman 'Empire or a Pope. I draw my information from the fragments that were found in 1947, there isn't a lot of information as 99.99% of their writings were destroyed by from 150 AD through the 500 AD. The translations I follow come from Non- Christian Historians and Researchers and not from a Christian point of view which from my point of view are bias. Their writings were very clear and written in psychological language and not coded.



i've read many gnostic christian texts, and the big divide i saw in it, between the biblical version and the gnostic version is the definition of genesis, the origins of thought, knowledge and the identity of the gods.

This is where you and I part ways, as mentioned above I am not coming from a Christian perspective.



edit on 18-9-2010 by Aquarius1 because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by Aquarius1
 


Here you hit the big nail of contention on the head. The Christian perspective. Almost all the history we have is written from a Christian perspective.

Like the 24/7 News Outlets that now push editorialized news purposefully presented in ways to draw a desired conclusion from the viewer, the same is true of the Christian perspective as it pertains to most of our history, recorded by Christians, with a Christian perspective in how they editorialize it and present it.

What most people who are trying to debunk or discredit this theory are doing, is employing the very Christian sources, and perspectives, I myself am trying to debunk and discard in that process.

What you have provided is an example where by some fluke or luck some one who is not Christian comes upon a real slice of pre-Christian era history, and reports it objectively, it varies vastly and profoundly from how the Christian perspective reinterpets such events for it's own benefit in furthering Christian ideals and in part doing that by attempting to obscure anything that might display better ideals than those.

Almost all of the recorded history available to us has been tainted in it's retelling with a Judean/Christian/Roman lense.

The thread is in large part about that conspiracy to decieve us and withhold from us, what really transpired.

Amazingly many of the people who are relying on that Judean/Christian/Roman perspective are in fact people who feel things like star gates and UFO's and extra terrestrials have been withheld from us, yet even then, they often try to slant that to include a Christian perspective by saying this vague riddle from the Bible or that vague riddle from the Bible displays that yes, God, the God of Christ knew about these things.

We will never understand the world we live in, or see it for what it is, and become the Masters of our own destiny, and stop being manipulated as long as people insist on skewering what we see through a Judean/Christian/Roman lense.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 



I love that argument.

Who named the gnostic Pagans?

The Catholic Church right?

Right!


This is an update to your question and who named the Pagans Gnostic's, my information comes from a book by John Lamb Lash Page 149 who wrote, Not In His Image, Gnostic Vision, Sacred Ecology and the Future of Belief, this is a big book and I couldn't find the infomation so I sent an email to John Lash last night and this what he wrote back.



Not in His Image, p 149

The first recorded use of the word gnostikos occurs in Plato’s Politicus
(258e–267a) where the ideal politician is defined as “the master of the
Gnostic art.”165 From its introduction into the Western intellectual
tradition, gnostikos was wrongly associated with the Illuminati faction and
hence the name came to be disowned by the telestai who did not engage in
statecraft and social management, using the “noble lie” rationale. In fact,
gnostikoi like Hypatia would never have used that term to describe
themselves. Six centuries after Plato, it came into use as an insult. The
Church Fathers ridiculed the teachers in the Mysteries with the term
gnostikos, intended to mean “smart ass,” “know-it-all.” Among themselves,
the initiates would have used the term telestes. Paradoxically, “gnostic”
comes down to us tainted by the condemnation of the Roman Church and
associated with the very members of the Magian order who were disowned by
the guardians of the Mysteries.

Fn 165. Morton Smith, “The History of the Term Gnostikos,” in Studies in
the Cult of Yahweh, ed. J. D. Cohen (Leiden: E. J. Brill, 1996), 2:34



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by undo
interesting. i'd like a description of which words were barbaric, otherwise, it's just hearsay. like we are taking this guy on his word because to discover it for ourselves would require learning greek and searching the maze of revelation for the offending words.


Hearsay?

Heresy, I say.


This 'guy' was pretty central to the establishment of the 'Christian Church' in Rome:

www.newadvent.org...


It will save lengthy digression if we at once speak of a document which will often have to be referred to on account of its biographical importance, viz., the letter written by Eusebius to his diocese in order to explain his subscription to the Creed propounded by the Council of Nicæa. After some preliminary remarks, the writer proceeds: "We first transmit to you the writing concerning the faith which was put forward by us, and then the second, which they have published after putting in additions to our expressions."



Note what Eusebius Pamphili, Bishop of Cæsarea in Palestine, the "Father of Church History" wrote in the bolded part above.

Early accusations of other tampering with the texts:


Between 325 and 330 a heated controversy took place between Eusebius and Eustathius, Bishop of Antioch. Eustathius accused Eusebius of tampering with the faith of Nicæa; the latter retorted with the charge of Sabellianism.


And, for posterity:


It would be difficult to overestimate the obligation which posterity is under to Eusebius for this monumental work. Living during the period of transition, when the old order was changing and all connected with it was passing into oblivion, he came forward at the critical moment with his immense stores of learning and preserved priceless treasures of Christian antiquity. This is the great merit of the Church History.


No mere 'guy' at all.




posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 01:02 PM
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reply to post by masqua
 


Hear say, would desribe accurately the entire Bible, since we only have the word of the sometimes annonymous authors that they were in direct communication with God or were told these things by the then deceased Jesus.

Nothing in the book can be substantiated in the first party, by the first party, which would be God.

The Book would not be hear say, if Rome was claiming God showed up and presented them with the Book, written in God's own hand.

So in reality it's all an absurd leap of faith that has been indoctrinated through rigid programing by the church and augmented by the state, to get people to accept that this is actually what God said, or Jesus said.

There is little chance God would have spread his word in this way through 2nd and 3rd and 4th parties.

He would do what Proto does and write it all down in his own hand.

Where no doubt despite the fact its in black and white some one else would paraphrase it falsely for the sake of some argument or agenda of their own, or take select quotes out of context for some argument or agenda of their own.

Because it's all hear say, it is heracy to question it, and inventing such an abomination of freewill and thought would have been the only way people could have been programed to accept the fictional and speculative work of 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, parties as divine.

Without backing it up with the sword, a God who does not appear in front of anyone, or write his own words down in his own hands, would require a violent imposition for people to accept it's existence, to simply eventually achieve a majority who because they say it is real, makes it real to them.

Rome wrote the Bible!

Not God!




posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 01:47 PM
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In fact the whole Judean/Christian/Islamic/Mormon concept of God is a hoax.

That’s right a hoax. There is absolutely not one shred of real proof that a God who is purported to have made us in his own image exists in our image or any image at all.

If someone on ATS claimed to see a UFO people would want proof, in fact people want proof for every little thing that is out of the ordinary.

It’s out of the ordinary for an entity to claim he invented and created the entire known universe and everything in it, which all of which we can see but that entity itself.

It is in fact a ridiculous fiction. No one has seen this God except for alleged accounts from thousands of years ago.

The only thing that makes this God real is people programmed to believe in its existence talking endlessly about that God, and arguing about that God and killing each other over whether their prophet was a prophet and whether he talked to God.

This whole thing has been manipulated by the States on behalf of Rome to basically create a population of economic free range slaves to the state, that are trained to be narcissistic and vein and jealous, which the state employs to murderous effect while on the other hand being taught to be meek, forgiving and humble towards the state which the state employs to its effect.

This is why every world leader in the world bows to the Pope because without this monotheistic concept of God they could not provide any plausible justification for the wanton murder and gratuitous violence employed by the patricians to get the slaves to kill and risk life and limb to secure the resources they horde.

People are literally arguing over an invisible man, while the bounty of the earth is being raped and stolen through murder and extortion to put in a few hands, that then use it for power and control and perpetuating this system, where about the only thing you are given in return is a few trinkets and a promise of some heavenly reward after death.

That all changes the moment you have the good sense that’s been robbed from you, to demand the same level of proof you would for anything else, that is out of the ordinary that makes no sense, that there is no visible proof from.

The only way this became real to so many people was Rome imposing it VIOLENTLY and then indoctrinating people from birth on to believe in it and not question it, and to talk incessantly about it to make it as real as possible through talking incessantly about it.

I am in a better position than any of you are to prove Rome is still running the planet than you are in proving the existence of God.

A God Rome claims exists in a similar image to ours.

So where is he? Let’s see that YouTube Video, lets get his address, lets get him on the phone, otherwise in reality all you are doing is discussing a Hoax, and a lie and perpetuating it, at the cost of your children, and your children’s, children, just like your parents, and their parents, and their parents did to them and you.

It’s a slave’s religion, for slaves, and not very intelligent ones at that.

Stop worrying about someone proving the Bible is a work of fiction, and start worrying on finding some real proof God exists.

Because with out, I will insist each and every time it’s brought up, that you are discussing an unproven hoax.

And before you think about trying God answers to no one, then all you are in fact is promoting a dictatorship and slavery to a concept of God, a God you can’t even produce.

Rome runs the world through these ridiculous notions, keeping you divided and conquered through them, controlling all the planets resources, and the money supply to obtain resources.

It is impossible to prove that is not the case, if you can not produce real, real time evidence that God exists in man’s image just like the hoax claims.

You guys want proof, I want proof.

My ultimate proof is you have no proof for the existence of this God that Rome's hoax claims is in our own image.

We can see Rome all over this, what we can’t see, and no one here or anywhere alive has, is this God in man’s own image.

Put up or shut up!




edit on 18/9/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by Aquarius1
This is an update to your question and who named the Pagans Gnostic's, my information comes from a book by John Lamb Lash Page 149 who wrote, Not In His Image, Gnostic Vision, Sacred Ecology and the Future of Belief, this is a big book and I couldn't find the infomation so I sent an email to John Lash last night and this what he wrote back.


OK let's try this again.





I love that argument.

Who named the gnostic Pagans?

The Catholic Church right?

Right!


In other words who declared that they were "Pagans" Not who named them "Gnostic".

Paganism


"The adoption of paganus by Latin Christians as an all-embracing, pejorative term for polytheists represents an unforeseen and singularly long-lasting victory, within a religious group, of a word of Latin slang originally devoid of religious meaning. The evolution occurred only in the Latin west, and in connection with the Latin church. Elsewhere, 'Hellene' or 'gentile' (ethnikos) remained the word for 'pagan'; and paganos continued as a purely secular term, with overtones of the inferior and the commonplace."[5]



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Again you are coming from a Christan perspective, they were known as Pagan's before Christianity came about and not all Pagan's were Gnostic's, they were a group of Pagan's called Gnostic's with an advanced Cosmology.

This is not the place to discuss this question as it is getting way off topic, thie thread is about All Roads Lead to Rome not the Gnostic's.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by Aquarius1
 


FAIL

Proto has written a very long thread with many contributing details. Addressing the premise of the thread requires a discerning look at the implications of those varied details and requires that all manor of critiquing be involved. You yourself posted not once but twice on the gnostic question and now you want it to be deemed off topic.

When investigating the claims made in such a thread as this posting questions is not deemed taking it off topic.

If you are requesting that all manor of critique and debate be deemed off topic so the thread can resume a self glorification and praise of the OP with out an opposing view then so be it.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by Aquarius1
 


People who have been programmed into Christian Slavery are unable to discuss anything except in Christian terms Aquarius1!

They have been programmed to form no independent thoughts on their own that deviate from the teachings put forth by Rome alleged to have come from the God that is alleged to have made them in his own image, yet exists no where in their image.

Because they can't actually prove this God exists, all they can do is run around in circles asking those who aren't enslaved to their doctrine, to prove God doesn't exist.

Which it is impossible to prove something that does not exist does not exist, as you can't prove a negative.

What they fail to understand is they can not prove the positive, yes some of them have been trained to say, oh but look all around you God is in this bird, and this tree, and in this flower.

Which of course is absurd, since their religion tells them they were created in God's image, so since they don't look like trees, or flowers, or birds, this mythical being they are all enslaved to in thought and deed, would actually have to be in their own form.

When seriously challenged on their inability to produce proof of this God then they will employ violence and murder in the name of this God, if it is sanctioned by the State in addition to that.

Don't expect a productive or intelligent conversation with such enslaved people. Their Master forbids that.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Aquarius1
 


FAIL

Proto has written a very long thread with many contributing details. Addressing the premise of the thread requires a discerning look at the implications of those varied details and requires that all manor of critiquing be involved. You yourself posted not once but twice on the gnostic question and now you want it to be deemed off topic.

When investigating the claims made in such a thread as this posting questions is not deemed taking it off topic.

If you are requesting that all manor of critique and debate be deemed off topic so the thread can resume a self glorification and praise of the OP with out an opposing view then so be it.


What I am demanding is proof of the God you claim is proof that this is not Rome.

I can prove again and again Rome's hand is involved in everything.

You can't prove the existence of this God though that would disprove that can you Slayer?

Got a YouTube video of him? A picture, his phone number, his address?

You see the only way you can prove my theory incorrect is to prove the existence of God which you can't.

So you see my friend, the really big hole is in the counter theory!

And the only one failing to produce proof is the people who can't produce real time proof of that God in man's own image just like they purport this God exists.

It's real simple.




edit on 18/9/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by Aquarius1
 


In other words....

When the OP repeatedly FAILS miserably to address those questions raised and continues with the erroneous and ignorant stance of superior knowledge and self importance while side stepping the issues raised with the validity of his hypothesis while accusing the opposing views and questioning as the result of being brain washed or fooled into anything other than their own opinions and queries represents an EPIC FAIL




posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 02:30 PM
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Well I guess Slayer is off to find proof of this God having no way to dance around that issue.

Now this conspiracy is about how Rome is using religion, banking, law, and military force to still conquer and rule the world.

If you want to discuss the validity of religion, be prepared to display positive proof of God's existence.

He is alleged to exist in our image, he is alleged to have created us in his own image. So he would look like one of us.

Two thousand year old books are hear say, and not proof of this God's existence.

Testimonials are like wise hear say, without corresponding proof this God exists in an image presently, our own image just like stated.

So anyone who wants to debunk this thread in deed, you need proof of God, proof of life.

Just like they ask for when someone has been kidnapped. First thing demanded from the kidnappers is proof of life, before any consideration is given to a ransom.

Faith is not proof, that is simply belief, it does not denote the existence of something other than in your own mind.

So who has real time proof God exists, lets get it posted.

Let's deny ignorance and not propogate it.

Lets treat this thread the same way we would any other on ATS.

To debunk this thread you have to prove God exists in the image of man, and produce him, and display he has God like powers as stated in the Bible ROME WROTE.

Thanks.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Aquarius1
 


In other words....

When the OP repeatedly FAILS miserably to address those questions raised and continues with the erroneous and ignorant stance of superior knowledge and self importance while side stepping the issues raised with the validity of his hypothesis while accusing the opposing views and questioning as the result of being brain washed or fooled into anything other than their own opinions and queries represents an EPIC FAIL




So in other words you wish to display my contention that not only are you programed to be jealous of others and vein and angry, while submissive to the State and Church, but you actually have no proof of this God, which is why you need your forum gang to give you credibility, because you can't provide proof of the only thing that would debunk this thread, proof of God!

Got any?

Yes or no.

Real time, real proof.

Yes or no?



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 02:35 PM
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Yeah the forum gang is here again. Now lets see, multiple stars in several minutes, for a poster who can't prove his arguments.

Outstanding.

Proof of God anyone? We have proof that those who have no proof are watching. Where is the proof of God that debunks this theory?

Where? Where? Where?

What you do have proof of is a vicious cult, teaming together, to perpetuate a lie and a hoax.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 02:39 PM
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Come on, lets get the cowards all out in the open and admit you have no proof.

Or prove me wrong.

Seriously, the lot of you involved know darn well what you are doing. I am not going to lie and pretend for you, like you lie and pretend to yourselves that this God that you have no proof of exists. That he wants you to run around these boards promoting war and slandering others in his name, because it's the loving thing to do, and misrepresenting and lying about what others say.

Lets see the proof that you use as justification for all these unseemly things.

Lets see proof of your God.

You don't have any do you?




posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
In fact the whole Judean/Christian/Islamic/Mormon concept of God is a hoax.

That’s right a hoax. There is absolutely not one shred of real proof that a God who is purported to have made us in his own image exists in our image or any image at all.

If someone on ATS claimed to see a UFO people would want proof, in fact people want proof for every little thing that is out of the ordinary.

It’s out of the ordinary for an entity to claim he invented and created the entire known universe and everything in it, which all of which we can see but that entity itself.

It is in fact a ridiculous fiction. No one has seen this God except for alleged accounts from thousands of years ago.

The only thing that makes this God real is people programmed to believe in its existence talking endlessly about that God, and arguing about that God and killing each other over whether their prophet was a prophet and whether he talked to God.

This whole thing has been manipulated by the States on behalf of Rome to basically create a population of economic free range slaves to the state, that are trained to be narcissistic and vein and jealous, which the state employs to murderous effect while on the other hand being taught to be meek, forgiving and humble towards the state which the state employs to its effect.

This is why every world leader in the world bows to the Pope because without this monotheistic concept of God they could not provide any plausible justification for the wanton murder and gratuitous violence employed by the patricians to get the slaves to kill and risk life and limb to secure the resources they horde.

People are literally arguing over an invisible man, while the bounty of the earth is being raped and stolen through murder and extortion to put in a few hands, that then use it for power and control and perpetuating this system, where about the only thing you are given in return is a few trinkets and a promise of some heavenly reward after death.

That all changes the moment you have the good sense that’s been robbed from you, to demand the same level of proof you would for anything else, that is out of the ordinary that makes no sense, that there is no visible proof from.

The only way this became real to so many people was Rome imposing it VIOLENTLY and then indoctrinating people from birth on to believe in it and not question it, and to talk incessantly about it to make it as real as possible through talking incessantly about it.

I am in a better position than any of you are to prove Rome is still running the planet than you are in proving the existence of God.

A God Rome claims exists in a similar image to ours.

So where is he? Let’s see that YouTube Video, lets get his address, lets get him on the phone, otherwise in reality all you are doing is discussing a Hoax, and a lie and perpetuating it, at the cost of your children, and your children’s, children, just like your parents, and their parents, and their parents did to them and you.

It’s a slave’s religion, for slaves, and not very intelligent ones at that.

Stop worrying about someone proving the Bible is a work of fiction, and start worrying on finding some real proof God exists.

Because with out, I will insist each and every time it’s brought up, that you are discussing an unproven hoax.

And before you think about trying God answers to no one, then all you are in fact is promoting a dictatorship and slavery to a concept of God, a God you can’t even produce.

Rome runs the world through these ridiculous notions, keeping you divided and conquered through them, controlling all the planets resources, and the money supply to obtain resources.

It is impossible to prove that is not the case, if you can not produce real, real time evidence that God exists in man’s image just like the hoax claims.

You guys want proof, I want proof.

My ultimate proof is you have no proof for the existence of this God that Rome's hoax claims is in our own image.

We can see Rome all over this, what we can’t see, and no one here or anywhere alive has, is this God in man’s own image.

Put up or shut up!




edit on 18/9/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: (no reason given)



If you could read hebrew, im sure, you wouldnt consider it a hoax.

I do agree that Christianity and Islam were creations of Rome. Christianity certainly was, and i know there are those who believe Islam was aswell. Think of it as a rebuke against the monotheistic religion of Judaism. Whereas both Islam and Christiandom, moreso christendom, give equal reality to both good and evil, its been practicalyl impossible for them to justify their doctrine of a good G-d without having an adequate explanation for the existence of evil. Instead, theyve deified Satan as a power unto himself - outside of G-d and therefore something 'other' than G-d. This is typical pagan mentality.Christianity is gnosticism, and Sufism is laden with Gnostic conceptions of G-d aswell. The two represent the intrinsic dualism that the Roman aristocracy, representing the pagan world, believe in.

We find an interesting allusion to this closet relationship in the figure of Frederick II of Hohenstauffen.

I do agree that the Vatican and its aristocratic allies in Europe are the ones behind whats going on today. The target however is and has always been Judaism. As Hitler himself emphasized so often in very mystical ways at times in his speechs in parliament, his book and in public addresses. He couldnt stand the 'conscience' that Judaism had brought into the world.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


nm, God can and will speak for Himself.

sl


edit on 18-9-2010 by sweetliberty because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 02:45 PM
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I mean seriously so many of you want it to be a religious thread.

Prove the religion is valid, produce the God, come on, proto is waiting.

Without being able to produce the God then in fact your religion is a hoax, and a control mechanism and a cult.

So where is the proof?

Here is your invitation to talk about the religion you all love to by actually displaying some proof for once this god is real.

Real actionable real time proof that your God exists in the same image as us, as your book tells you.

He hasn't abandoned you has he?

I mean just because of all the lies, and killing, and hating and all, this God of love and peace you all love to talk about when you aren't promoting killing some other group that doesn't follow him like you do.

Or slandering the people who don't believe in him like you do.

Or crying because some people complain about all the killing, pillaging, and stealing and slandering you do in his name.

Come on, let's prove God exists.

Let's prove proto's theory wrong. You need to prove God to do that!

Proof of life or no ransom!

Otherwise it's extortion, which is probably why such people can only operate through might makes right strength of numbers.



posted on Sep, 18 2010 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


I will accept any living breathing creature in man's image that can right now display God like abilities as proof of God's existence, whether he likes, hebrews, christians, muslims or jelly filled donuts the best.

It has to be current proof in the here and now, as I am not living in the past.

So who has some current proof that God exists in the present tense and form, in our own image, and can do some God like stunts for us.

Otherwise you are only lying to yourself if you think you can debunk this theory and thread.

Only God could debunk it, by coming right out, right now and stating clearly he is God and proves it, and states he is running the world, and everything in all three or just one religious sects books is true and he had it written.

Come on.

proto is waiting.

You guys want to play, let's play.

Me against everyone else, let's see some proof.

I say no matter how many of you band together you still can't win the debate because you can't prove your God exists.

At the heart of your incessent murderous religious debates is a God, so let's get the God out here, he loves you all right?

Ask him to give you some proof, so you can debunk the evil mean arrogant proto!




edit on 18/9/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: (no reason given)



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