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All Roads Lead to Rome

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posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 09:10 PM
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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Dude I was hoping you would answer the questions that I asked instead of deflect like you do so well, serious just answe the questions I asked, If you stand by your comments and Research answer the fooking questions. How hard is it do you have the answers. Your Ego knows no bounds eh?

You mentioned earlier that All treaties go through Rome, and leave Rome in Charge. Now is Rome a group of people and you have decided to give a name to them? Who the hell are they? And why do you keep saying ROME........ Show me some meat Please Proto For my Sanity.....



I have answered these questions in the thread, that you have chosen not to read. The thread itself is 4500 pages of 8 x 10 sized pages, the referrences attached through links would add about 10 times that amount of reading.

Slow down, Rome isn't going anywhere, neither am I, read the thread, follow some of the links, look for some things that interest you, there is something for everyone in this thread, do some real research, come back and have an intellgent conversation after the forum gang visiting today gets bored with their antics.

Then engage in a polite, intelligent, reasoned discussion.

In the meantime ask yourself some intelligent questions like, wow in 4 months in a thread that 100's of members have flagged and posted too, is it really likely I am asking a question that hasn't been asked before by one of them.

Understand yes, it has, and it's a big thread.

Presently you are asking me to post what would be dozens and dozens of links, and pages and pages of references just to answer your 'simple' questions.

This conspiracy has to do with 2500 years of history, right on up to today.

It's not something you understand in a few paragraph reply.

Stop asking for one. Read the thread.

Thanks.




posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Dude I was hoping you would answer the questions that I asked instead of deflect like you do so well, serious just answe the questions I asked, If you stand by your comments and Research answer the fooking questions. How hard is it do you have the answers. Your Ego knows no bounds eh?

You mentioned earlier that All treaties go through Rome, and leave Rome in Charge. Now is Rome a group of people and you have decided to give a name to them? Who the hell are they? And why do you keep saying ROME........ Show me some meat Please Proto For my Sanity.....



So you better understand some of the most important Treaties are in the form of Papal Bullas do you know what a Papal Bulla is? This is why a Wiki Link was first provided to you so you can learn what some of these things are and how they function.

It's all laid in an a progressive building block way, giving you a chance first to understand the basic mechanisms to then understand some of the more detailed and complicated things.

Some very important Papal Bullas are still not entirely agreed upon amongst scholars, and the Vatican and the Parties involved have never come out to set the record straight.

One of the most controversial is the Papal Bullas that awarded all of the Americas a year before Columbus even discovered them to the Kings of Aragon and Spain, with no one knowing whether the Pope actually gave them for them to own in their entirety or simply to run as vassals for Rome.

Neither the Vatican or the Royals have set the record straight, this is but one of hundreds of Papal Bullas that laid claim and established ownership of things, and awarded them to certain parties whose decendants are still Royal and still rich and still possibly in possession legally of these things today.

Understanding this conspiracy and what's involved will take you a lot of time if you really want to prove it to yourself.

If your objective is to disprove it to yourself, just say, hey I don't believe.

No extra work required.

There are thousands of years of legal treaties and documents that establish custody and chains of custody involved in this theory, there is no smoking gun 5 paragraph link to be had, that is going to lay out all that research for you.

Seriously man, if you are truly interested, familiarize yourself with the theory, and the thread first, then lets have an intelligent conversation about it.

Till then keep playing to the mob if you like. Mobs are fickle though trust me!




edit on 17/9/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by masqua
 


the flocks were not even allowed to read it, nor was it taught to them by the holy roman empire's bishops. the thing was assiduously copied down by hand and literally chained to the wall to keep it from being stolen and read. many churches didn't even have a copy. and none of them taught from it. they taught from papal edicts, papal writs, but not the bible. for 1500 years this went on. and for another 400 years, they taught mass only in latin, no matter what langauge the congregation spoke or understood. now you want to tell me that they put the bottomless pit in a book about the end of the world, to scare parishoners, who are told that the contents of revelation already occured during the days of "pagan rome"? you sure about that?



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 09:25 PM
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Yes I am saying everything has been fabricated, primarily through Josephos a Roman Jew, who gave us the first non-biblical historical accounts of the Hebrew Religion.

Rome wrote the Bible, and while people love it, the truth is, it's like taking the letters of a mass murderer, at trial, and saying but...he says this in his letters, and he says that in his letters, therefore, this must be true.

You really can't debunk my theory with the Bible, because the Bible is in my humble opinion at the heart of the Conspiracy and Rome wrote it as part of a Conspiracy to conquer the world and create a one world government.

So in essence people doing that, are taking the word of the wolfe, over the sheep.

There are no ifs and's or buts about it Rome wrote the Bible, Rome spread the religion.

They want to make it look like it sprang up independently and spread itself into Rome and took it over through popurity, but the historical non-biblical evidences is just the opposite.

The Gospels are nothing but a collection of letters written by Roman Agents posing as followers and building the religion into a cult.

Since Rome literally controlled all the real history of the period and still through today, and the Bible has been rewritten numerous times, which is well documented, using the Bible to debunk the theory is perhaps the most fatally flawed thing a person can do.

It's not real history in my humble opinion.



PT

I said,
Stormdancer777








posted on 103030p://bThursday2010 @ 10:37 AM single this post "quote"REPLY TO:

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Once again the OT even quotes more ancient texts, Astarte and Canaanite deities,

It even quotes the ancient Egyptian book of the dead.

and the Sumerian flood Epic, and the tale of creation.

Quite a feat for the Romans to have access to cuneiform tablets.




See the post at the top of the page, it all goes back to Troy, the misdirection of Rome is that the Middle East and the Semites and others have something to do with it.

It's a ruse, a false trail, and takes you away from the source and the origins of what really happened.

Rome starts in Troy! Just like I laid out in the OP

PT

Stormdancer777






posted on 113030p://bThursday2010 @ 11:01 AM

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


"All of which were places that Rome conquered and incorporated into it's tales, these places never conquered Rome Stormdancer, Rome conquered them!"


So the Romans wrote the Sumerian cuneiform tablets and Egyptian hieroglyphs?

Must have done the pictographs and petroglyphs of the world as well?


edit on 093030p://bFriday2010 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 09:35 PM
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reply to post by Stormdancer777
 


i'm so sorry you went to the trouble of finding those as masqua has already stated that roman's (in this case, bishops) wrote them all, so your work was for nothing. all masqua is going to debate with proto about is whether it was the political figures or religious figures of rome, that wrote the new testament.

if it's any consolation, i appreciate your efforts.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 09:39 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by SLAYER69
 


No one can disprove the theory, no one can completely prove it either.


edit on 17/9/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: (no reason given)



So why are you pretending as if you can and being so forceful in this thread, as if everything in the OP is 100% fact when you yourself know it isn't. It's not based on a source which can be checked and evaluated. The sources used in your thread were from Wikipedia Proto, Wikipedia. So no one can completely prove the theory, your own words.

Epiphany? Anyone?

Again Proto, this thread isn't about Rome, its about you.


Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Wow who would have thought Proto's epic thread would be more topical nearly a half year after posting it, than Slayer's most recent effort after 48 hours.



Validates my point.



To the poster who was talking about the time frame of how long Rome has supposedly been in charge (according to this theory), I brought up the same issue a while back. These guys suck!!! They've had thousands of years to consolidate and centralize power. They've had thousands of years to use all of their puppet governments, institutions and corporations to seize power, yet they didn't. They've had thousands of years worth of opportunities, times when seizing power would have been a lot better than now, yet they didn't. You want to know why they didn't? Because the world has been and is now, an arena of competing powers.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by undo
reply to post by masqua
 


the flocks were not even allowed to read it, nor was it taught to them by the holy roman empire's bishops.


Yes, you're right. They weren't allowed to read it, but it was used to sermonise.


the thing was assiduously copied down by hand and literally chained to the wall to keep it from being stolen and read.


Yeah... books were precious because of the fact that they were hand written.


many churches didn't even have a copy. and none of them taught from it. they taught from papal edicts, papal writs, but not the bible. for 1500 years this went on. and for another 400 years, they taught mass only in latin, no matter what langauge the congregation spoke or understood.


Yup. You're quite right


now you want to tell me that they put the bottomless pit in a book about the end of the world, to scare parishoners,


Who is 'they'? The bishops?
I think the book was written a bit before they rose to power in the Roman Empire:


The Book of Revelation has been traditionally dated by scholars to have been written in or about 96 AD. Obviously this date would completely prevent anyone from accepting the Preterist theory that the events described in Revelation took place some 25 years earlier in 70 AD. Preterist scholars quickly recognize that dating the book in 96 AD utterly destroys their theory, therefore, they must challenge this dating. And so they have.
www.biblestudying.net...


[and]


In other words, if we interpret Irenaeus as the Preterists want we are left without any certain date for the writing of Revelation. That means, it could have been written at any point prior to John's death. If it was not written in the 90's, it could have been written in the 70's or 80's. Yet the Preterists argue that it was written in the 60's. And why? Since apart from Irenaeus there is no direct source for dating Revelation, we have no other choice but to assume the only evidence Preterists have for an early dating of the book is their own theory that it was fulfilled in 70 AD. Any date after 70 AD would negate their entire theory.


No, it is MY OPINION that it was written to amplify the Apocalyptic Christian 'idea'. Christ was all about apocalypse and the Kingdom of God on earth. If you didn't comply to the edicts, you were bound for a sorry place and that's just plain scare tactics.


...who are told that the contents of revelation already occured during the days of "pagan rome"? you sure about that?


Rome WAS pagan during the first century... right up until Constantine in ~300 AD. In many ways, in the eyes of the Jews, the first century AD was apocalyptic, wouldn't you agree?



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 09:45 PM
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Undo


These were not christian documents however they are pre biblical documents that prove beyond a doubt that the authors of the old testament were not romans.

The only big secret judaism has is that the jews had no idea that jehovah (the word for which derives from EA (see Enki) was both the sumerian Enlil and the sumerian Enki. Enki and Enlil were part of a sumerian trinity, the third member of which was Anu. Anu is Amun, who is Amen. This is Father, Son and Holy Spirit! Anu was the Father, Enki was the Son and Enlil was the spirit (the true meaning of ELOHIM is "spirits". see michael s. heiser's paper on WHAT IS AN ELOHIM? www.thedivinecouncil.com...

Shame on you for ignoring things that poke holes in your theory! I'm surprised how willing you are to go to such extreme lengths to describe history as if it were written out somewhere by someone of great authority on the matter, only to leave out every single piece of evidence that suggests you may be wrong on some parts of your theory!

Let's take the Hyskos Shepherd Kings, who were the Habiru (the hebrews). The Habirus were named after the city of the Sumerian god, Enlil, which was the city of Nibru (nibru became nibbur, nibbur became nippur). They took over Egypt for awhile, becoming pharaohs, grew to be unpopular, were enslaved and eventually run out of Egypt by the pharaoh of the time (see the exodus). Paintings of the hyskos are dead ringers for ancient israelite dress, trade in commerce, and hair types and styles (you can even see the descendants of this styling in the prayer shawls and other accouterments of modern day jews).

You also must ignore UGARITIC texts, phoenician texts and the list goes on and on and on. What's up with this???




reply to post by undo


Actually my friend, I believe personally that the real secret lies with Troy and we are being misdirected towards Babylon.

If there was a flood, that wiped out earth, then it's probably more likely that Troy was settled first because it's closer to a Mountainous region.

Plus Rome's founder came from Troy.

I think they have incorporated all those Middle Eastern ellements to steer us off the real trail.

That's hunch, a gut feeling, so your right I do ignore it!

Second I don't really trust archeologists, because they are the perfect source of disinformation because people do trust them, but...and here is the big but...they always work on grants.

Pay me enough money, I will tell everyone the sun is the moon for you if you like.

Heck pay me five dollars and I will.

I think there is a lot of disinfo out there meant to confuse us, the more widely accepted it is, the less likely I am to accept it.

I am looking for what's really hidden.

I think the real truth is really, really hidden, and I think a lot of the people in the Secret Societies have been sold false truths, as the higher truths to manipulate them too.

Just a hunch, but the truth is, the truth is the most valuable commodity out there.

Rome is the real dominant player, so I am following Rome's hidden roots, away from what is commonly put out there as the 'alternative' real answer.

PT



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 09:53 PM
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Proto reply to undo,




ProtoplasmicTraveler
auctorictas principis

posted on 063030p://bSunday2010 @ 06:06 PM

reply to post by undo


It's pretty simple my friend, and I know a lot of people are intensely into those esoteric things.

But when all the telephone poles are leaning to the right, the Proto poll automatically leans to the left!

Another thing that makes my avenue interesting, is because Troy was all but obliterated, there is no real way to precisely date it, what age range are you thinking it is?

I am thinking it was as old as the Pyramids, and as old as Ur, and I am also thinking if that's where all the really hidden secrets lay, that they are really, really hidden, and that's why the assumption is that no it doesn't fit in as predominantly as I believe it does.

But ask yourself this if we are looking at metaphorical and allegorical things.

What does the Trojan Horse then really symbolize to you.

To me, that the truth lies deeply burried within. That what you see on the outside, is nothing at all like what's really hidden on the inside.

There is a powerful message there.

Between you and me, Enki? That sound's like a midget with glasses that needs a pocket protector.

Throw a Spanky in there and you got little rascalls. Is there a buck wheat by chance in that crowd?




posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 09:54 PM
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reply to post by masqua
 


the solution to the preterist dilemma is found in the legs of daniel's statue relating the world's empires for all of history. if the last empire on the statue is the feet of clay and iron mixed, and falls into line with the holy roman empire in the timeline, this means that it corroborates proto's premise that rome is still in control of the world. it just doesn't appear to be. (was, is not, yet is). i agree with that premise entirely. that's what i keep trying to tell him but he's not interested in anything that suggests any part of his theory may need better fleshing out, so he's tossing out all the rest of the data surrounding his theory. : /

baby, bath water, out the window.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:01 PM
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UR



By the time Hammurabi took the Babylonian throne, in the eighteenth century BC, Ur was already a place of considerable antiquity. It had already been occupied for something like 3500 years, making it one of the oldest cities in the world. Its inhabitants were Sumerians, the people who ‘invented’ the very notion of cities and civilization. Their ancestors were farmers who had moved into the plains of southern Mesopotamia by the sixth millennium BC.

www.odysseyadventures.ca...

Troy
www.timelineindex.com...
History of the Middle East
library.thinkquest.org...



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:10 PM
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Originally posted by undo
the solution to the preterist dilemma is found in the legs of daniel's statue relating the world's empires for all of history. if the last empire on the statue is the feet of clay and iron mixed, and falls into line with the holy roman empire in the timeline, this means that it corroborates proto's premise that rome is still in control of the world. it just doesn't appear to be. (was, is not, yet is).


Very well said.

The Roman Empire faltered after Constantine. The fight went out of the legions and the internal peace was all that mattered to the subsequent line of new emporers and the citizenry alike. This was their ultimate downfall, because they became weak and, eventually, defenceless to ultimate invasion.

The Holy Roman Church was (imho) also a stone that mirrored Nebuchadnezzar's dream if one relates it to the Roman Empire. I love that vision, btw, and can apply to just about any empire. Defeated and yet twenty times more powerful thru the 'unity' that the church provided. So, yes, the Holy Roman Empire abides today through the Vatican as it has for 1700 years.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:33 PM
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I would just like to know how in the world they get a civilized western nation like the US with so much christain influence to send all thier children out one nite a year , in costume, to collect candy amist trapings of the most evil sort. Blood suckers, witches and well...what have you. And yes the easter bunny and the jolly fat man for that matter. A nation that claims so much christain influnce setting aside this pagan days and indulging in same with vigor and without much thought at all as to what it is in the hell they are doing.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:41 PM
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reply to post by Logarock
 





Halloween, celebrated each year on October 31, is a mix of ancient Celtic practices, Catholic and Roman religious rituals and European folk traditions that blended together over time to create the holiday we know today. Straddling the line between fall and winter, plenty and paucity and life and death, Halloween is a time of celebration and superstition. Halloween has long been thought of as a day when the dead can return to the earth, and ancient Celts would light bonfires and wear costumes to ward off these roaming ghosts. The Celtic holiday of Samhain, the Catholic Hallowmas period of All Saints' Day and All Souls' Day and the Roman festival of Feralia all influenced the modern holiday of Halloween. In the 19th century, Halloween began to lose its religious connotation, becoming a more secular community-based children's holiday. Although the superstitions and beliefs surrounding Halloween may have evolved over the years, as the days grow shorter and the nights get colder, people can still look forward to parades, costumes and sweet treats to usher in the winter season



www.history.com...


Halloween is not Pagan at all, it comes from Celts over 2000 years ago, but agree where ever it came from iit's not a good thing that children celebrate it.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:49 PM
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reply to post by Aquarius1
 


Ok Celtic or Babylonian really, yes naturaly but the question remains. And with very little expalnation given to the folks that do it. AND, AND most, the very large part, learn about it in public elementary schools. Think about it.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:52 PM
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reply to post by Aquarius1
 


Halloween is a great holiday, it teaches the people some of the finer aspects of Christian principles.

1. It's the only night you can ask and have any expectation of recieving!
2. It trains them early it's all about putting on a mask and hiding your true self to conform to an immage.
3. That life every once in a while when you actually ask and mask yourself real well can be sweeeeeeeet!
4. How to accessorize! Sadly most people at any age never really undersand it's the shoes that make the outfit.
5. That living life to the fullest can put you on the razors edge!
6. That there is no such thing as a free lunch but there is sometimes such a thing as free candy.
7. That occassionaly it's alright to take candy from strangers.
8. That mom and or dad will do some really stupid and expensive things to avoid having to buy you candy.
9. That some things really do go bump in the night.
10. That illusion is fun!

Now no, I don't think Halloween will ever be able to compete with the sheer unbridled madness of Ground Hog Day but it's a fun Holiday for kids and kids of all ages.





edit on 17/9/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:59 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 





4. How to accessorize! Sadly most people at any age never really undersand it's the shoes that make the outfit.

You are so right, shoes are the thing, you don't want to know how many pair I own, yes Halloween is a fun holiday, nothing like parents dressing up and scaring the hell our of kids.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 10:59 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Aquarius1
 


Now no, I don't think Halloween will ever be able to compete with the sheer unbridled madness of Ground Hog Day but it's a fun Holiday for kids and kids of all ages.



Wll now that you brought it up, the are underworld implications. And the hog is a fierce predator indeed. Lettice beware!



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by Aquarius1
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 





4. How to accessorize! Sadly most people at any age never really undersand it's the shoes that make the outfit.

You are so right, shoes are the thing, you don't want to know how many pair I own, yes Halloween is a fun holiday, nothing like parents dressing up and scaring the hell our of kids.


The Pope in his red finery reminds one of the jolly fat man. Pope Claus.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 11:19 PM
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reply to post by Logarock
 


Actually some people have done some fascinating research on how the Pope's Costumes and the Cardinals and Bishops too each mimick the color and shape of different Hallucinegenic Mushrooms.

Yule which was morphed into Christmas also has many Christmas Decorations in the shape and colors of certain Hallucinegenic Mushrooms.

The Latin incantations in Mass may have been and still may be performed by priests using Hallucinegenic Mushrooms to place themselves in contact with the spirit world.

These are just a few:








How the priestly class practices religion and how the laity practices religion may in fact be two very different things, with two very different aims and goals.



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