Why I Dont want Immigration reform

reply to post by flycatch


They won't they will just attempt to slander you and call you a racist because they are unable to understand that the vast majority of illegals are of Spanish decent(I've been told this is wrong word to use, and I know it is, but it irritates them so I keep using it). It's almost unfathomable that these people have been brought up in a different country and their culture is completely different from ours. So when people would like them to at least try to adapt we get called racist.

reply to post by Light of Night

It's almost unfathomable that these people have been brought up in a different country and their culture is completely different from ours. So when people would like them to at least try to adapt

Show me where in the Constitution it says that we have to live a certain culture.

How is it you want people to adapt?

reply to post by flycatch

The problem is they are now becoming more common with the influx of illegals. The new wave of illegals crossing our borders our not here to seek work but are here to steal and reak havoc in our society. Prove me wrong.

Provide some stats and we will see how long your argument stands up.

reply to post by jam321


How about learning the freaking laws of the country and actually standing up and take responsibility for their actions.

Is that really to much to ask?

reply to post by Light of Night

How about learning the freaking laws of the country and actually standing up and take responsibility for their actions.

Learn the laws.

Amazing how you demand so much from illegals that you yourself don't know.

Or are you going to tell me that you know all the laws that are currently on the books.

Same goes for responsibility. If Americans were responsible they would vote out those who allow this problem to persist.

My how quickly we went from culture to laws.

Originally posted by Light of Night
reply to post by flycatch

 

They won't they will just attempt to slander you and call you a racist because they are unable to understand that the vast majority of illegals are of Spanish decent(I've been told this is wrong word to use, and I know it is, but it irritates them so I keep using it). It's almost unfathomable that these people have been brought up in a different country and their culture is completely different from ours. So when people would like them to at least try to adapt we get called racist.

The point is not that you guys are wrong about the over all problem...

You are wrong about the solution

There are 4th and 5th generations of Spanish people who look like illegal Spanish people. You expect them to be subjected to constant police scrutiny and suspicion
because it does not effect you. The American Spanish people are AMERICANS, they are not second rate garbage, an American is an American is an American. Now the fact that you cannot make the distinction is kind of funny, but thats your problem, not mine.



[edit on 25-4-2010 by Janky Red]

Originally posted by Light of Night
reply to post by jam321

 

How about learning the freaking laws of the country and actually standing up and take responsibility for their actions.

Is that really to much to ask?

Who is they???

See you are perpetuating what you are complaining about

You are make NO distinction between American Spaniards and Mexican Spaniards

I mean do the American Spaniards wear feathers in their caps and tights like the Mexicans Spaniards?

How about the Spanish Spaniards?

We are all individuals, but I wouldn't know it talking to you

[edit on 25-4-2010 by Janky Red]

AHh yes, I think some people need to look up the definition of "culture" and actually read what it says and maybe comprehend it.

The laws of a country are directly related to its culture as a whole. For instance in many countries using only one finger to point is rude, so they use two. In Japan it is customary for people to take off their shoes before they enter into buildings.

It could be said the American Culture is a mixture of cultures, that are governed by American Law.

So I guess illegals should continued to be given a pass and should not adapt and learn English to at least assimilate into society. I also guess my rights as an American citizen doesn't matter since illegals continue to be given passes.

I suggest you guys actually read the law and see what it says. The bill is nothing more than almost a direct paraphrase of Federal Law. I read it already.

reply to post by Janky Red


Now your just being ignorant. I won't even entertain the rest of your posts.

Yes I know one line post yada yada. No need to say anything else to this person.

reply to post by Light of Night

So I guess illegals should continued to be given a pass and should not adapt and learn English to at least assimilate into society. I also guess my rights as an American citizen doesn't matter since illegals continue to be given passes.

Since you obey the laws, tell me what law requires immigrants, legal or illegally, to learn English?

You talk about your rights, but what about my rights. Why should my family have to be harassed because of the color of our skin when we are just as American as you?

If I am standing somewhere and fall under reasonable suspicion, why should I have to prove that which my other fellow Americans don't have to?

Should one American not be protected with the same rights?

Heres a few stats:

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21001543/
There are 2.7 Latino inmates for every Latino in college housing. Among non-Hispanic whites, more than twice as many live in college housing as in prison or jail.

www.denverpost.com/ci_11735475
Latino convicts now represent the largest ethnic population in the federal prison system, accounting for 40 percent.

www.thefreelibrary.com
About 45 percent of Latinos released from prison in fiscal year 2001 returned within three years

www.aclu.org
85 percent of Latinos oppose jail for marijuana possession.


Fifty percent of Hispanic households use some form of welfare, the highest rate of any major population group.

Hispanics are 3.3 times more likely to be in prison than whites; they are 4.2 times more likely to be in prison for murder, and 5.8 times more likely to be in prison for felony drug crimes.

* Hispanics drop out of high school at three times the white rate and twice the black rate.
* Even third-generation Hispanics drop out of school at a higher rate than blacks and are less likely to be college graduates.
* From 1992 to 2003, Hispanic illiteracy in English rose from 35 percent to 44 percent.
* The average Hispanic 12th-grader reads and does math at the level of the average white 8th-grader.
* At 43 percent, the Hispanic illegitimacy rate is twice the white rate, and Hispanic women have abortions at 2.7 times the white rate.
* Hispanics are three times more likely than whites not to have medical insurance, and die from AIDS and tuberculosis at three times the white rate.
* In California, the cost of free medical care for illegal aliens forced 60 hospitals to close between 1993 and 2003.
Only 33 percent of citizens of Hispanic origin consider themselves “Americans” first. The rest consider themselves either “Hispanic/Latino” or their former nationality first.

Many Hispanics are loyal, productive Americans, and there is a definite trend towards assimilation and economic success as Hispanics put down roots. At the same time, it is disturbing to note that assimilation flattens out so that even after three generations, Hispanics are still at a considerable disadvantage compared to the majority population. This is in sharp contrast to Asian immigrants, many of whom surpass white achievement levels after several generations.

At the same time, most Americans believe a citizen’s first identification should be as an American, not as a “Honduran” or a “Latino.” It is not reassuring for non-Hispanics to learn that only one third of Hispanic citizens think of themselves as Americans first. Mexico changed its laws in 1998 to permit dual nationality, which encourages Mexicans to take American citizenship while maintaining Mexican loyalty.

reply to post by Loken68

At the same time, most Americans believe a citizen’s first identification should be as an American, not as a “Honduran” or a “Latino.”

You see a white guy, black guy, and brown guy walking down a Houston street.

How do you label them?

Please don't tell me you call the brown one American.

Now, why are you posting stats about Hispanics?

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by Light of Night

 

So I guess illegals should continued to be given a pass and should not adapt and learn English to at least assimilate into society. I also guess my rights as an American citizen doesn't matter since illegals continue to be given passes.

Since you obey the laws, tell me what law requires immigrants, legal or illegally, to learn English?

You talk about your rights, but what about my rights. Why should my family have to be harassed because of the color of our skin when we are just as American as you?

If I am standing somewhere and fall under reasonable suspicion, why should I have to prove that which my other fellow Americans don't have to?

Should one American not be protected with the same rights?

Learning basic English is required to become an American citizen or you don't get your green card.

Point me to the place in the law where it says people will be harassed because of their skin color? Point me to the place in the law where it legalizes racial profiling.

And again what about my rights, what about my entitlements that the government has passed and that I pay into, if I was to go on welfare should I be denied what I have payed for because some illegal is taking what I payed into?

What about the rights of all the people that are being terrorized in their neighborhoods. What about the rights of the school kids that are being forced into the cartels to run drugs? What about all those peoples rights? What about the peoples rights to actually be able to sleep peacefully in their homes at night and not worry about the Cartels henchmen coming in and kicking down the wrong door and being kidnapped and/or killed?

Again read the bill, the bill is almost a direct rehash of Federal Law that is already on the books federally. All I see people doing is spewing a bunch of propaganda about the bill that has no basis in reality.

reply to post by Light of Night

Learning basic English is required to become an American citizen or you don't get your green card.

The problem is that immigrants are not required to become citizens and even then the English test they give is a joke. We have immigrants who are given visas and don't know a lick of English.

All I see people doing is spewing a bunch of propaganda about the bill that has no basis in reality.

Do you really think they would put it in black and white? What was the purpose of this bill?

And if this law is so much like the federal law, why the redundancy?

And again what about my rights, what about my entitlements that the government has passed and that I pay into, if I was to go on welfare should I be denied what I have payed for because some illegal is taking what I payed into?

What illegal receives welfare? And you personally would be denied only if you don't meet the requirements as set forth by law. The same laws that you say should be obeyed and respected.

What about the rights of all the people that are being terrorized in their neighborhoods. What about the rights of the school kids that are being forced into the cartels to run drugs? What about all those peoples rights? What about the peoples rights to actually be able to sleep peacefully in their homes at night and not worry about the Cartels henchmen coming in and kicking down the wrong door and being kidnapped and/or killed?

Cartels are in mexico. What they have going here is their connection to American gangs who are delivering the goods to Americans who are hooked on what the Cartels have to offer.

Go read some of the government hearings about this.

Originally posted by Light of Night
reply to post by Janky Red

 

Now your just being ignorant. I won't even entertain the rest of your posts.

Yes I know one line post yada yada. No need to say anything else to this person.

Are you mad because I pointed out that you generalize?

1 line post, sue me mods

Excerpt for the bill

B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW
21 ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW
22 ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF
23 THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO
24 IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE
25 MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON,
26 EXCEPT IF THE DETERMINATION MAY HINDER OR OBSTRUCT AN INVESTIGATION. ANY
27 PERSON WHO IS ARRESTED SHALL HAVE THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS DETERMINED
28 BEFORE THE PERSON IS RELEASED. THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE
29 VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION
30 1373(c). A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY,
31 CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE MAY NOT SOLELY
32 CONSIDER RACE, COLOR OR NATIONAL ORIGIN IN IMPLEMENTING THE REQUIREMENTS OF
33 THIS SUBSECTION EXCEPT TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY THE UNITED STATES OR
34 ARIZONA CONSTITUTION. A PERSON IS PRESUMED TO NOT BE AN ALIEN WHO IS
35 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IF THE PERSON PROVIDES TO THE LAW
36 ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR AGENCY ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
37 1. A VALID ARIZONA DRIVER LICENSE.
38 2. A VALID ARIZONA NONOPERATING IDENTIFICATION LICENSE.
39 3. A VALID TRIBAL ENROLLMENT CARD OR OTHER FORM OF TRIBAL
40 IDENTIFICATION.
41 4. IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED STATES
42 BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL GOVERNMENT
43 ISSUED IDENTIFICATION.

There it is read it, I even linked to the rest of the bill in case you actually want to know what you are talking about. When pertaining to this bill.

The problem is that immigrants are not required to become citizens and even then the English test they give is a joke. We have immigrants who are given visas and don't know a lick of English.

Then they are on temporary Visa's and after the Visa's expire they must return home.

Doesn't matter how you feel about the English test, the fact is there is a requirement to actually know some english to become an American Citizen.

Do you really think they would put it in black and white? What was the purpose of this bill?

Look at the Bill I even linked to it and posted an excerpt of it in a post before I replied to this post.

And if this law is so much like the federal law, why the redundancy?

Because in case you have had your head in the Sand the Feds have been doing everything they can to stop the Sheriff in one Arizona town from actually enforcing immigration law.

If the Feds were actually doing their job Arizona would not have had to have passed this bill.

What illegal receives welfare? And you personally would be denied only if you don't meet the requirements as set forth by law. The same laws that you say should be obeyed and respected.

You should do some research on what are called "Sanctuary Cities", places like LA and other cities where Illegals get all the entitlements of American Citizens.

If I met the requirements I would fully expect to get what I have payed for. And it was an example presented.

Cartels are in mexico. What they have going here is their connection to American gangs who are delivering the goods to Americans who are hooked on what the Cartels have to offer.

Cartels are also here in America don't be a fool. Just because they don't operate under the name of _________ cartel doesn't mean the gang is not sanctioned by the cartel.

*Formatting edit*

[edit on 25-4-2010 by Light of Night]

reply to post by Janky Red


I'm not mad, I'm just pointing out that you are being completely ignorant of the fact that I said ILLEGAL people of Spanish Decent(Spanish Decent being the term I prefer because I just feel like using it).

The point is if you are acting too ignorantly to actually read and understand the word "Illegal" then there is no point trying to debate with you because you are not of mental capacity to hold an intelligent debate. Which I really do think you are of Mental Capacity to actually hold this debate, but you are trying to bring this debate to a level to where it can't actually be debated because you are trying to play the position of lacking basic comprehension skills.

And if you want to argue semantics then there also no point in debating with you because you feel that you're way more intelligent than everybody else and your mind is already made up and cannot be changed. So it would be a waste of time continuing this debate with you.

Pick one. Or both doesn't matter.

reply to post by jam321


read....

en.wikipedia.org...

when and if you think your being profiled sue them..


This is a broad bill to fix a broad problem. Not a personal or Family problem. Yes illegal immigration is a problem.. Google it. Start with the tax, then the health care. Also latin Americans, are not the only illegal immigrants in the USA, or Arizona, so it will be hard for me to yell fowl if I am asked for my ID too..





gotta love marines.. Taught to act first think last...

reply to post by Light of Night

Then they are on temporary Visa's and after the Visa's expire they must return home.

You need to read up on immigration laws. I know many people who have residency but have no desire to be a US citizen. All legal according to the law as written.

Because in case you have had your head in the Sand the Feds have been doing everything they can to stop the Sheriff in one Arizona town from actually enforcing immigration law.

If the Feds were actually doing their job Arizona would not have had to have passed this bill.

Feds aren't doing their jobs in other areas as well,. Should we just let Arizona take care of that as well.?

You should do some research on what are called "Sanctuary Cities", places like LA and other cities where Illegals get all the entitlements of American Citizens.

So now you are going to tell me that sanctuary cities override the welfare laws that were written by States and federal statues.

Cartels are also here in America don't be a fool. Just because they don't operate under the name of _________ cartel doesn't mean the gang is not sanctioned by the cartel.

If you won't to revert to name calling, i can definitely do the same. But IMO, it serves no purpose.

What you fail to realize is that many American gangs are just as involved in war on drugs as the cartel. Never said illegals aren't in those gangs.

Mr. Placido. I can personally address the answer for you,
Mr. Gohmert.
The fact is that we have hard empirical evidence indicating
that the traffickers consistently have said they do not want to
engage in violence on the United States--on U.S. Soil. There
are repeated instances of that that we could provide, in a
different setting, to document that for you.

frwebgate.access.gpo.gov...:49476.wais