what shall the penalty be for an abortion?

reply to post by rubbertramp


I'm pro-life in most cases (except for things like rape, abuse, incest, etc) mainly because biologically speaking once sperm meets egg a new DNA sequence is formed that is unique to that zygote, a unique code that can never be repeated and can only be human, therefore it cannot be considered just another part of the woman's body. Most are too zealous about the subject or argue from ignorance or religion which leads to a polarization on the issue.

I don't think there should be a penalty, I don't think it should be illegal to get one because right now, as a species, we are immature and actually have need of a barbaric practice like this. I don't think the government has the right to involve itself in our reproduction so I think it should be indifferent toward abortion. They don't have to take a stance, this puts responsibility for your body back in the hands of the people themselves. Let each woman on her own decide if she wants to get one and let each doctor decide on his own whether he wants to perform that sort of thing.

You see the whole abortion thing is a result of our irresponsibility as a species. We refuse to take responsibility for our sexual urges. Men don't take responsibility and end up raping people, so we need abortion for those cases. Women and Men don't take responsibility and have safe sex, meaning we need abortion for those unwanted children. So the whole issue could be resolved if we stopped being an immature barbaric bunch of morons. Responsibility would also solve overpopulation, because people would only have unsafe sex if they wanted to conceive.

reply to post by Violater1


Thats what the news never project out, they never tell of teh costs,a nd females do pay for it.

Glad i am not the only one who thinks this.

If you do not ant to get pregnant do not have sex. If you take the chance, thats upto you, and the abortion is upto you, but you do pay.

reply to post by rubbertramp


there shouldn't be a penalty.

but please, call it pro-choice anti-choice. Because everyone is pro-life


Calling anti-abortionists "Pro-Life' Makes it seem like pro-choicers want to go murder babies


Thats why it was engineered to sound that way - by the political think-tank.

Call it what it is - not what other people want to trick you into believing.


[edit on 24-4-2010 by Snarf]

Originally posted by rubbertramp
from my understanding, abortion was brought to america as a eugenics operation by margaret sanger.
mostly targeting minorities, especially blacks.
for some, this may be a good thing.

Your understanding is wrong. Terminating and preventing human pregnancy has been around as long as human beings have. The first people to perform abortions on the American continents were... *drum roll* Native Americans. They had a well studied knowledge of how to terminate pregnancies by using abortifacients, like St. John's wort.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


I think you make a great well explained point here but I disagree.

Man already screwed up when they started to keep life alive where it would have died from natural causes without treatment.

That's why I say it's either this way or that way. Everything in between I think is hypocrite. ( No offense )

Originally posted by Snarf
reply to post by rubbertramp

 

but please, call it pro-choice anti-choice. Because everyone is pro-life
Calling anti-abortionists "Pro-Life' Makes it seem like pro-choicers want to go murder babies
[edit on 24-4-2010 by Snarf]

That is stupid. "Choice" has nothing to do with abortion. Pro choice can easily mean the choice to smoke a cigar or to drive while using a cell phone or drive will intoxicated. The word choice is used to distract from the actual act which is killing the unborn baby which by the way is an actual murder and those that do it should be tried as such. Whoever posted earlier was right, it is part of the eugenics project to reduce the population and specifically remove from the population unwanted peoples. If you are unfamiliar with eugenics there is a plethora of information you can Google.

pro-lifers don't want to punish women for having abortions as murder, despite what they claim about abortion being murder.

They just want to make it illegal.

The reality is that pro-lifers don't want to protect life at fertilization. IVF - "oh it's not in the woman so it's ok", "oh, the purpose is to create life so it's ok to murder unneeded zygotes even though they're "alive"".

There is a stark contrast between what pro-lifers preach on websites and display on billboards outside abortions clinics and what they really want - simply to ban abortion, but not deal with the consequence of it being classified as murder - investigating miscarriages, banning E.C. and IVF. . .

Pro-lifers find it unpalatable to punish women as murderers, despite the proclaimed value of the unborn. They really just want to criminalize abortion. Thus, they resolve the dilemma of laws which do not reflect the proclaimed value of the unborn in several ways. Rationalizations and mitigating circumstances include women seeking abortions are

- depressed
- mentally ill
- severely emotionally disturbed
- didn't know what they were doing ("deluded" by "society")
- "forced" by an third party (usually male i.e. boyfriend/husband)
- will develop post traumatic stress disorder or similar once they found out the "graveness of their decision"
- punish the "hitman" (abortion provider) but not the person who ordered the hit (woman - because she is "mentally ill" or something).

All the above are used as excuses not to punish women as murderers. Pro-lifers are a funny bunch.

Originally posted by Conqueror of Seth
Your understanding is wrong. Terminating and preventing human pregnancy has been around as long as human beings have.

Planned parenthood originated with the native Americans? You are trying to distract from reality. Nothing is new, but the current abortion movement originated from early American progressivism and the push for eugenics which is where planned parenthood, the number one advocate of abortion and the breakdown of minority families, originated.

There should be NO punishment. If a person IS NOT READY to have a child, but couldn't refrain from an activity to which our creator (if one even exists) went and made IRRESISTIBLY ENJOYABLE, then that person should be commended for not causing a another to be brought into a world to which the conditions were NOT suitable for in the first place. Such a person who has prevented another from living a live of MISERY should NOT be punished.

Originally posted by igor_ats
Pro-lifers find it unpalatable to punish women as murderers, despite the proclaimed value of the unborn.

I have no problem treating it as a crime because it is. "Anti-lifers" want to give women, specifically poor black women, a convenient way of not reproducing. Anti-lifers want it so freaking ingrained in minority women them that its almost an automatic decision. Anti-lifers know its a damn evil thing to do so they tell the women that its them taking control of their own body and making their own decisions and then anti-lifer hypocrites continue to expand the legal code, making more and more laws day by day, stripping all of us including those women of rights.

I mean, hell if you want to make ridiculous statements, I can do that too.

Every pro-lifer should be mandated to adopt and care for ALL unwanted children...see how long they still support pro-life then.

Originally posted by Captain_Sense
There should be NO punishment. If a person IS NOT READY to have a child, but couldn't refrain from an activity to which our creator (if one even exists) went and made IRRESISTIBLY ENJOYABLE, then that person should be commended for not causing a another to be brought into a world to which the conditions were NOT suitable for in the first place. Such a person who has prevented another from living a live of MISERY should NOT be punished.

Don't speak of a creator then. The "creator" gave a life through that act which the "person" extinguishes before it even has the opportunity to see the light of day. If I were the "creator" I would not be too pleased with the woman or the society that tolerated the practice. I could see the "creator" deciding to maybe abort that civilization because maybe it was not suitable to exist in the first place.

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


Prolonging life has advantages. It allows for the expansion of the gene pool by increasing the number of years an individual can spend procreating, even after procreation is no longer an option the wiser and older ones of the population can care for the young, pass on knowledge and otherwise facilitate the function of society.

Our reproductive irresponsibility has led to both the need for abortion and the incredible surge of population. Amazingly even with how irresponsible we are about how many kids we snip in the bud before birth we're still expanding in population. Luckily statistical trends show that the rate of population expansion is slowing down gradually and hopefully we'll be able to avoid disaster. If we can become responsible for our sexual urges and only have children when we want to there will be no need for abortion.

This of course includes the need to get rid of rape, solutions for this vary but I think if we devote time and money to it we can greatly diminish instances of rape and reduce the need for abortions.

The human race needs to make some changes, and soon, or else we're gonna be stuck in this primitive Type 0 Civilization forever (and end up wiping ourselves out).

reply to post by Aggie Man


I agree 100% with that reply. EXCELLENT REPLY!!!

Originally posted by Aggie Man
Every pro-lifer should be mandated to adopt and care for ALL unwanted children...see how long they still support pro-life then.

I could follow the logic through for what anti-lifers should be forced to do but I think you can work it out yourself.

reply to post by ararisq


You, I, nor anyone on this planet knows if there is a creator. You, I, and the rest, have NO idea what the alleged creator FEELS or INTENDED for us, expects from us, or anything whatsoever for that matter. You and I in all REALITY are as CLUELESS of a creator as the fly buzzing around my window outside. Get it?!






[edit on 24-4-2010 by Captain_Sense]

Originally posted by Captain_Sense
reply to post by ararisq

 

You, I, nor anyone on this planet knows if there is a creator. You nor I have NO idea what the alleged creator FEELS or INTENDED for us, involving us, or anything for that matter. You and I in all REALITY are as CLUELESS of a creator as the fly buzzing around my window outside. Get it?!

Furthermore, IF there is a creator, then it is upon that creator to pass judgment on the on the individuals that choose abortion over life. It is not my place, your place or anyone else place to pass that judgment. If a pro-lifer doesn't like it, then they certainly have the right to have a litter of children to make up for those aborted souls.

Originally posted by Aggie Man
Every pro-lifer should be mandated to adopt and care for ALL unwanted children...see how long they still support pro-life then.

What a hateful thing to say.
Just stop being a hater.

Originally posted by ararisq

Originally posted by Conqueror of Seth
Your understanding is wrong. Terminating and preventing human pregnancy has been around as long as human beings have.

Planned parenthood originated with the native Americans? You are trying to distract from reality. Nothing is new, but the current abortion movement originated from early American progressivism and the push for eugenics which is where planned parenthood, the number one advocate of abortion and the breakdown of minority families, originated.

Margaret Sanger was OPPOSED to abortion:
"While there are cases where even the law recognizes an abortion as justifiable if recommended by a physician, I assert that the hundreds of thousands of abortions performed in America each year are a disgrace to civilization."

"To each group we explained what contraception was; that abortion was the wrong way—no matter how early it was performed it was taking life; that contraception was the better way, the safer way—it took a little time, a little trouble, but was well worth while in the long run, because life had not yet begun."


She was a proponent of contraceptive use, not abortions. Her eugenic views actually had nothing to do with abortion, nor did abortion have anything to do with "progressivism"; but instead had everything to do with women's reproductive rights. regardless of genetic makeup.

Originally posted by Violater1

Originally posted by Aggie Man
Every pro-lifer should be mandated to adopt and care for ALL unwanted children...see how long they still support pro-life then.

What a hateful thing to say.
Just stop being a hater.

Hateful? Try practical. Someone would need to care for all of these unwanted children. Since it's the pro-lifers that oppose abortion, it only makes sense that they be the care takers. No hate there, just reality.

Simply put, if the pregnant female does not want her unborn and pro-lifers insist that she keep it, then it should be the responsibility of the pro-lifers to provide for the unwanted child.