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Arizona Immigration Bill is Unconstitutional

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posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 04:45 PM
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Yes, boondock.

We do NOT live in a Democracy.

It does NOT matter how many people are behind this.

I am sick of seeing polls. It has NOTHING to do with our governance.

Just as it did not matter how many people were against the health care. It was blatantly un Constitutional.

Rule by the majority becomes as Tyrannical as a Dictatorship.




posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


But when should it be passed though? Unfortunately even if the government wasn't super corrupt they would still pass a bill like this to gain seats. That's just politics. I'm just glad some state is actually doing something about it for a change.

Although the fed should have been enforcing the immigration laws for decades. That's just the way politics works though. Hopefully other states are right behind them with similar legislation.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by endisnighe
 


You are right,

that is not only in the state of Arizona is all over the nation, I get asked to show ID or identification every time I do a purchase.

Now we know that IDs are deceiving as illegals can buy them for the right amount of money.

Now military IDs are now scanned at the military bases for validation, I see how a National ID could be pushed for better monitoring of citizens.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by Captain_Sense
 


What I find strange is that most of these people saying this bill is unconstitutional are the same ones that say the HCR is not unconstitutional. IT seems to be these same people want to invoke the constitution when their agenda is being dismantled. Otherwise as long as legislation fits the agenda the Constitution doesn't matter.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 04:52 PM
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reply to post by Light of Night
 


In this nation you have to notice by now that everything done is politically motivated to support those on the top but when it comes to citizens we are just something to be use, manipulated and toss aside when we make to much noise or complain too much.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 04:55 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


I agree with you. While I'm not all gung-ho about this law, I don't know how it's unconstitutional. AZ isn't making its own immigration laws.

A funny thing. From the original source:



By now you may have heard about a controversial immigration law passed in Arizona that makes it a crime under state law to be in the country illegally.


Huh?
AZ isn't making it a crime to be in the country illegally. That's already a crime (hence the word "illegal".)



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 04:57 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


That's every nation. Like I said that is just politics at least we have the ability and means to actually change it if we could all agree upon a common front. The problem is to many people are too worried about small insignificant things to actually worry about the big things.

I understand what you are saying, but at the same time this bill was needed.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 04:57 PM
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Article 4 Section 4 of the U.S. Constitution




The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.



Since the U.S. isn't protecting Arizona against an invasion [Immigrants killing AZ ranchers on their border farms] what is Arizona is supposed to do ?

10th Amendment




The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


It also helps to know that the original source was written by some Law Professors that teach and reside in a "Sanctuary City" that being LA. So it really doesn't surprise me that they would write something like that.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by marg6043

Still I wish that a bill like the Arizona was taken by more states to show the Federal government how fed up America really is.

That's really what this is all about. Even Obama has admitted that this is a response to the Federal government not doing its job.

Some time back there was a huge debate about illegal immigration, and those who fought the attempts to curb it won. Nothing was done. The Minutemen who assembled in order to do no more than alert authorities to illegal immigrant activity were demonized and called 'vigilantes'. The idea of providing a fence with a buffer zone to aid enforcement was met with ridicule and comparison to the Berlin Wall.

In the end, nothing was done. Illegal immigration continued.

Read my signature: Be careful what you ask for; you might just get it. Those who wanted to allow unchecked immigration got what they asked for. Now the real impact is starting to hit. States are going broke, literally unable to pay for things like police protection, infrastructure repair and maintenance, and state services. Too many demands on the public dole have finally made it necessary to make a choice: continue and fail, or change and possibly survive. Yet the Federal government still does not act.

So the states will act on their own, out of necessity. Arizona is first. Others will follow.

Right and wrong does not really enter into this situation any more IMHO. It's more about reality than about morality now. And reality has this nasty habit of winning out.

TheRedneck



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 05:10 PM
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I agree wholeheartedly with this bill being passed in Arizona. Illegal is illegal. What part of the word "illegal" don't people understand?

I am all for legal immigration, but not illegal immigrants that invade our schools, our emergency rooms, don't respect our laws, drive crime rates higher, and don't pay taxes.

I do feel for the Mexican people - Life in Mexico for the poor must be miserable. However, that doesn't entitle illegal immigrants to break our laws.

Someone hit the nail on the head - The national ID card. This is just a prelude to the dreaded microchip. I hope I don't see this happen in my lifetime.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 05:29 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Actually, they did make it a state offense as well. Section 13-1929 (added per SB1070):

13-2929. Unlawful transporting, moving, concealing, harboring
or shielding of unlawful aliens; vehicle impoundment; classification

  1. IT IS UNLAWFUL FOR A PERSON WHO IS IN VIOLATION OF A CRIMINAL OFFENSE TO:
    1. TRANSPORT OR MOVE OR ATTEMPT TO TRANSPORT OR MOVE AN ALIEN IN THIS STATE IN A MEANS OF TRANSPORTATION IF THE PERSON KNOWS OR RECKLESSLY DISREGARDS THE FACT THAT THE ALIEN HAS COME TO, HAS ENTERED OR REMAINS IN THE UNITED STATES IN VIOLATION OF LAW.

    2. CONCEAL, HARBOR OR SHIELD OR ATTEMPT TO CONCEAL, HARBOR OR SHIELD AN ALIEN FROM DETECTION IN ANY PLACE IN THIS STATE, INCLUDING ANY BUILDING OR ANY MEANS OF TRANSPORTATION, IF THE PERSON KNOWS OR RECKLESSLY DISREGARDS THE FACT THAT THE ALIEN HAS COME TO, HAS ENTERED OR REMAINS IN THE UNITED STATES IN VIOLATION OF LAW.

    3. ENCOURAGE OR INDUCE AN ALIEN TO COME TO OR RESIDE IN THIS STATE IF THE PERSON KNOWS OR RECKLESSLY DISREGARDS THE FACT THAT SUCH COMING TO, ENTERING OR RESIDING IN THIS STATE IS OR WILL BE IN VIOLATION OF LAW.

  2. A MEANS OF TRANSPORTATION THAT IS USED IN THE COMMISSION OF A
    VIOLATION OF THIS SECTION IS SUBJECT TO MANDATORY VEHICLE IMMOBILIZATION OR IMPOUNDMENT PURSUANT TO SECTION 28-3511.

  3. A PERSON WHO VIOLATES THIS SECTION IS GUILTY OF A CLASS 1 MISDEMEANOR AND IS SUBJECT TO A FINE OF AT LEAST ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS, EXCEPT THAT A VIOLATION OF THIS SECTION THAT INVOLVES TEN OR MORE ILLEGAL ALIENS IS A CLASS 6 FELONY AND THE PERSON IS SUBJECT TO A FINE OF AT LEAST ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS FOR EACH ALIEN WHO IS INVOLVED.
Source: www.azleg.gov...

That said, they have not superceded Federal law; rather they have added state provisions which are in line with Federal law. In other sections, Federal Immigration laws are referenced as well. And there is nothing in the US Constitution that prohibits a state from adding to Federal law when it comes to illegal immigration, as long as the state does not try to supercede Federal law.

TheRedneck



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by Light of Night
But when should it be passed though? Unfortunately even if the government wasn't super corrupt they would still pass a bill like this to gain seats. That's just politics. I'm just glad some state is actually doing something about it for a change.

Although the fed should have been enforcing the immigration laws for decades. That's just the way politics works though. Hopefully other states are right behind them with similar legislation.


I couldn't agree more
i would love to see NC
pass such legislation.
I would send Gov Perdue
an e-mail concerning this
but she still hasn't answered
my previous ones, so I doubt
it will do any good.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by Captain_Sense
There is NOTHING UNCONSTITUTIONAL or WRONG with this recently passed Bill. In fact it is VERY BENEFICIAL to ALL of those who are LEGAL, law-abiding citizens of who have put in the BLOOD, SWEAT, and TEARS to make America great.


Unless you have brown or dark skin.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 05:51 PM
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As many have said, Arizona is merely putting in writing what the Federal Government should have been doing all along.
I do disagree about the conclusion of one member that this will give the US Government an excuse to issue National ID cards. I'm afraid that Obama and the Democrats will use this bill as cover to pass "Immigration Reform"- translation - make them all legal, after a slap on the wrist, and some meaningless restrictions.
People need to understand that our economy is Bankrupt, at both the Federal Level AND state level. Adding 30,000,000 more immigrants without the extra infrastructure, both physical and economic, will cause a complete DEFAULT of our economy. At that point, the US becomes a third world country, without the means to pay for ANY of its citizens, and what few jobs exist now, will disappear. This will be the economic equivalent of a post-nuclear-war US.
The well is dry, opening the floodgates to 30 million more people, is insane.
Yes, people should be concerned about human rights, and living conditions. That includes countries like Mexico, and other countries that have not provided for their own people, but rather have "encouraged" them to jump the border to our country.
In addition, employers have taken advantage of illegal immigrant workers, and if you want to direct your anger anywhere, direct it to those fat cats, that are making millions off the illegals.
When someone finds a way to allow 30 million more people into our country, and not destroy what is left of our economy, then I will fully support that entry. Until then, such a move would be shear folly.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 06:10 PM
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reply to post by Aggie Man
 


Where are the 4th Amendment rights of US citizens everytime you go through security at say an airport or other checkpoint, courts,even some schools? How many passengers give up their 4th Amendment rights every day and how many of these are found to be breaking the law.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 06:20 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


Oh, OK. Thanks.

Do you know what section of the constitution these lawyers are saying was violated by this law? I'm a bit confused on that. The 4th Amendment?

I guess if a police officer says he has "reasonable suspicion" that someone is an illegal immigrant, then that would be considered "probable cause". Is that in compliance with the 4th amendment? I'm thinking so.

I get the impression that the state law is being seen to be more strict than the federal law, but the truth is that the federal law isn't weaker, it's just not being enforced. The AZ law gives its LE officers the go ahead to enforce what the feds aren't. That's how I'm seeing it.

[edit on 4/24/2010 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 06:35 PM
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reply to post by Captain_Sense
 


No, it's not a witch hunt. Calm down, McCarthy..

We can disagree with the bill without being/knowing illegal aliens..

We can also support equality among races without being/knowing minorities (unlike some people).



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 06:44 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

It sounds to me like it is the 4th amendment that is being used to declare it is unconstitutional, but these same levels of 'reasonable suspicion' have already been upheld in practically every other area of law enforcement. So has the concept of seizing property used in commission of a crime (although I personally believe any such confiscation before conviction is in itself unconstitutional).

Like you, I believe this is just an attempt to further a personal agenda on the part of those claiming unconstitutionality. I am a little concerned about this law as well, but the bottom line is it is necessary if Arizona wants to continue to be a state and provide for its citizenry.

TheRedneck



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 07:30 PM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck

It sounds to me like it is the 4th amendment that is being used to declare it is unconstitutional, but these same levels of 'reasonable suspicion' have already been upheld in practically every other area of law enforcement.


But therein lies the problem...

"Reasonable Suspicion" in this instance refers to skin color. There is absolutely no debate amongst anyone (either pro or con) that this bill will result in racial profiling. The debate is whether or not racial profiling should be acceptable.

According to the Supreme Court (in multiple cases), racial profiling is not proper cause for search and seizure:



In the United States, the government does not have the right to conduct searches based solely on racial profiling. The Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution guarantees the right to be safe from unreasonable search and seizure without probable cause. Since the majority of people of all races are law-abiding citizens, merely being of a race which a police officer believes to be more likely to commit a crime than another is not probable cause. In addition, the Fourteenth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution requires that all citizens be treated equally under the law. It has been argued that this makes it unconstitutional for a representative of the government to make decisions based on race. This view has been upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court in Batson v. Kentucky and several other cases.


wiki

Now, I would love to see somebody make the argument that this bill will not lead to racial discrimination, but I doubt anyone could come up with a good case. The fact that this will be used to target people of Hispanic descent is quite evident.

So there you have it, it is quite clear based on the 4th and 14th amendments to the Constitution, that this bill is unconstitutional and therefore should (and most likely will) be repealed.

To address your other point, I am a 100% white, multiple generation American citizen with no friends or family who are illegal immigrants, and absolutely no personal ties to the illegal immigration issue. I also have no personal vendetta against Arizona or its legislators (with the exception of this bill).

The only thing I have a problem with is seeing a state pass a clearly unconstitutional law, and seeing so many people support it out of ignorance. I also have a problem seeing the 4th amendment (which has already been thoroughly trampled during the past few decades) take yet another hit.



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