Why do you support the ILLEGALS?

Originally posted by ReVoLuTiOn76
reply to post by earthdude

 

Once again you are missing the point of this whole topic: The people who criminally trespass onto American soil are breaking the law, plain and simple.

The Federal, State and County governments have all been complicit in welcoming the more than 20 million illegals that were here at the height of the housing boom in 2005.

The federal government enjoyed one-half TRILLION dollars...that's a "T", that was deposited in the FICA accounts that did NOT match up with any valid social security number or tax ID#.

When the government ignores that law...it's time for people like you to stop using that argument.

Because it makes you look unintelligent. And surely uninformed.

The sad truth is that the economy dictates 2 incomes for most households.
Add Roe v Wade and there's million of missing Americans that have never been born.

This wave of immigration was a boom to all of us.

And just like my Sicilian grandfather who couldn't speak a word of English, he too, was snickered at by....probably YOUR grandfather!

The illegal immigrant who successfully ran the gauntlet to get here...to have his kids in our schools (which guarantee a 1 generation cap on welfare benefits doled out), is just the kind of American we sorely need.

The only intent that would create a thread like this is Hate and Anger. neither one should be the driving force of American policy. Wealthy Americans get their piece of pie, and construct enough rules to deny anyone else a bite. Then they indoctrinate people like you to defend it, even though you're just as broke as everyone else. (If you're not broke yet, then you're one of the lucky ones)

As if we don't create enough enemies in this world, we have to criminalize people who are just trying to escape poverty and hunger...

How are we going to nab millions of people and their families, send them back to certain poverty and death and still call ourselves decent people?

We can't hide behind the law to justify that kind of Evil.

15,000 years and we've learned absolutely nothing. Oh, but we've perfected our selfishness and our evil.

What's your next complaint? and the next one...and the next one...and the next..next..next...

How about you look in the mirror and ask yourself why do you think you have a right to a better life than anyone else. And don't give us that tired legal mumbo jumbo, because as far as I'm concerned, we've all been legally screwed.



[edit on 24-4-2010 by Visitor2012]

reply to post by humilisunus


The founding father never killed and drove anyone off their land. It was the expansion of mankind as always that moved and expanded into the borders around it. Hey if you were in those times and you had such warm and hug the world opinions then..you wouldn't belong to either side. The Natives would've wanted your head and you would've been a outcast from your own kind.

Originally posted by SpectreDC

Except the case laws suggesting it isn't,

Such as?

and the fact that it undermines fundamental American values.

Breaking the law and letting criminals go scott free is an American value?

But I guess ignoring legal precedent and our values, yes it's 100% constitutional. Who needs legal precedent and values, anyways?

There was legal precedent upholding slavery as well.


Sorry bub, game over.





[edit on 4/24/2010 by Lemon.Fresh]

Originally posted by humilisunus

These people, the humans you speak off are trying to get a piece of the pie, to feed their children to have a better life than the crap they come from, some of these people have seen more in a week than most of us will ever see in a lifetime of international evening news.

So they're entitled to OUR "pie" to compensate? If everyone took everyone else's PIE, we'd all be hungry. I don't know if you've noticed, but America is running out of "pie".

So let's say in your fantasy world that 5,000 starving people give their jackets to 5,000 other people, who are freezing cold. You'd have 5,000 dead people and 5,000 others with new jackets. No change, no 'great act of humanity', no logic, no gain, no loss, just shifting of means with no change in the end.

The fact they are "human" is a given. It doesn't change the debate. Why? Because it's an argument based on emotion, and unfortunately emotions don't SOLVE PROBLEMS.

How do you call the mexicans that owned the land before you killed them off of it "illegal" did your founders not murder them to steal it? And then errect a sign that says "thou shall not steal"?

"Your founders".Oh I see, we're guilty by association because it's obvious that ALL of our Forefathers, everyone in this forum, had a dear old Grandad that "killed him some Mexicans". Yep, we're all guilty, end of discussion. And I should pay for this by giving my possessions away. Gotchya.

What about the Indians did they just say " oh here have some land, we have to much anyway"? Before you raped and "integrated" then into your way of life?

More delusion based on romantic rants from emotion. Yes , we here are all supposed to feel guilty for being "American" and should cede all we own for 500 year old choices by complete strangers. Gotchya.

Originally posted by prionace glauca
reply to post by humilisunus

 

The founding father never killed and drove anyone off their land. It was the expansion of mankind as always that moved and expanded into the borders around it. Hey if you were in those times and you had such warm and hug the world opinions then..you wouldn't belong to either side. The Natives would've wanted your head and you would've been a outcast from your own kind.

You actually believe that nonsense?

Originally posted by Visitor2012
The only intent that would create a thread like this is Hate and Anger. neither one should be the driving force of American policy. Americans get their piece of pie, and construct enough rules to deny anyone else a bite.

Americans are selfish children. As if they don't create enough enemies in this world, They have to criminalize people who are just trying to escape poverty and hunger...

How are we going to nab millions of people and their families, send them back to certain poverty and death and still call ourselves decent people?

We can't hide behind the law to justify that kind of Evil.

15,000 years and we've learned absolutely nothing. Oh, but we've perfected our selfishness and our evil.

I am sure you have, are you from the European Union by any chance? You know the same union that is struggling to clamp on its own immigration policies. Or maybe you are from France, where they feel Muslim women can't wear Burqas because it is not feminine, LMFAO. Where do you even get off telling what Americans should or should not do? You wish you had the lifestyle we do, but you are left to your daily revolts and high taxes with no personal assets to boot.

reply to post by prionace glauca


Wow, you truly are ignorant. The natives were relatively peaceful for many years until they were forced closer and closer together as they lost their land. It was at that point that they started fighting each other. And the new European arrivals loved it of course.

OK, this might be a tad confrontational but I am tired of this "Taxpayer's money goes to pay for illegal immigrants" argument. Not to assume that the OP is racist of course, but do people wave miniature U.S. flags whenever they pay their taxes, knowing that their taxes are going to be wasted on social services that they don't use. i.e educational facilities, buses, etc.

Put it this way, America's taxpayer money is getting wasted on bailouts, and lining the pockets of corrupt men. Illegal immigrants are used by those corrupt men to do their gardening and other menial tasks. Who knows? Perhaps this trickle down effect is actually keeping America from collapsing.

reply to post by brianmg5


An ignorant person calling someone else ignorant. I guess you feel smart that way, but education clearly shows in your statements. Johny boy I recommend some colonial history for you and not the Liberal/progressive kind.

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh



Such as?

The Arizona law appears to be “facially unconstitutional,” Manheim said. “States have no power to pass immigration laws because it’s an attribute of foreign affairs. Just as states can’t have their own foreign policies or enter into treaties, they can’t have their own immigration laws either.” States have long attempted to regulate immigration and in some instances the federal government successfully challenged state laws in court, including in the 1800s, Manheim said. But federal governments often stay out of the fight. In 1994, for example, California voters passed a law designed to deny social services to undocumented aliens. The law was challenged by private litigants and struck down by a federal court.

Breaking the law and letting criminals go scott free is an American value?

No, but creating a law based on racial profiling undermines American values. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are not rights given by the constitution. The constitution only protects these rights. These rights are derived from natural law, in the belief that all humans inherently possess these rights.

This law isn't much different than what Nazi Germany did against the Jews. There was a "papers, please" law put into effect, written in fairly similar language. The only difference is that instead of being sent to a work camp, they're sent back across the boarder (which they will just cross again).

There was legal precedent upholding slavery as well.

And slavery is a heinous action that undermines American values. So what is your point?

Yep,

If you are against illegal immigration you're a racist. Yet MOST of the illegal immigration in the U.S. comes from one ethnicity more than any other.

If the debate goes further than that it's "Well you stole this land, it's ours, you don't belong here anyway".

If it is explained that Illegal Immigration is ILLEGAL, you get a dose of "but we're all human" speak. As if HUMANITY was in question and the LAW wasn't.

Yep, ignore Illegal Immigration and it's effects on us, ignore all that, because "they're just trying to make a better life (while making ours miserable) and they just need jobs, money, food, housing, a place to go, schools, education, freedom to gain higher education for free, drivers licenses, clothing, healthcare, hospital treatment....and on and on and on.

Yep, that's all they want....what's the big deal?

[/sarcasm]

What is this "Us vs. Them" crap? I thought we were finally going to see the end of political trolling...well, I guess not.

The assumption is that anyone against the Arizona immigration law is for illegal immigration. This is not true, it's over simplistic and indicative of a mind that is incapable of differentiation.

reply to post by Prove_It_NOW




second line

Originally posted by antonia
What is this "Us vs. Them" crap? I thought we were finally going to see the end of political trolling...well, I guess not.

The assumption is that anyone against the Arizona immigration law is for illegal immigration. This is not true, it's over simplistic and indicative of a mind that is incapable of differentiation.

Welcome to American politics circa 2000 - 2010.

It's so popular experts are foreseeing this continuing on for the next decade in the next version upgrade!

Originally posted by prionace glauca
I am sure you have, are you from the European Union by any chance? You know the same union that is struggling to clamp on its own immigration policies. Or maybe you are from France, where they feel Muslim women can't wear Burqas because it is not feminine, LMFAO. Where do you even get off telling what Americans should or should not do? You wish you had the lifestyle we do, but you are left to your daily revolts and high taxes with no personal assets to boot.

No I'm not from the EU, I'm an American citizen. So that just invalidates the rest of your reply.

What is this envious American "lifestyle" you speak of? All I see are slaves working everyday of their lives trying to afford the right to be custodians of bank owned property. No thanks.

It's easy to understand why Americans are hated so much in this world. They are probably the most technologically advanced dummies on the face of the planet. Not to mention how good they are at killing other human beings with the support of anger fueled robots like you.

If you're an American... I want to be something else.

Originally posted by Visitor2012

Originally posted by prionace glauca
I am sure you have, are you from the European Union by any chance? You know the same union that is struggling to clamp on its own immigration policies. Or maybe you are from France, where they feel Muslim women can't wear Burqas because it is not feminine, LMFAO. Where do you even get off telling what Americans should or should not do? You wish you had the lifestyle we do, but you are left to your daily revolts and high taxes with no personal assets to boot.

No I'm not from the EU, I'm an American citizen. So that just invalidates the rest of your reply.

So you are not from the EU,

What is this envious American "lifestyle" you speak of? All I see are slaves working everyday of their lives trying to afford the right to be custodians of bank owned property. No thanks.

Bank owned because you or your parents signed into something they couldn't afford. If it doesn't affect you then fill in "you" with "others"

It's easy to understand why Americans are hated so much in this world. They are probably the most technologically advanced dummies on the face of the planet. Not to mention how good they are at killing other human beings with the support of anger fueled robots like you.

You just said you were an American and yet you talk in the Third person? Ah, so you claim to be an American to try to make a valid point but it isn't because you aren't one to begin with. Kind of like what our siting POTUS does everyday.

If you're an American... I want to be something else.

With your third person pandering I doubt you are one, but if you are we'll be one enemy within less.

Originally posted by SpectreDC


The Arizona law appears to be “facially unconstitutional,” Manheim said. “States have no power to pass immigration laws because it’s an attribute of foreign affairs. Just as states can’t have their own foreign policies or enter into treaties, they can’t have their own immigration laws either.” States have long attempted to regulate immigration and in some instances the federal government successfully challenged state laws in court, including in the 1800s, Manheim said. But federal governments often stay out of the fight. In 1994, for example, California voters passed a law designed to deny social services to undocumented aliens. The law was challenged by private litigants and struck down by a federal court.

Notice the section in bold?

Foreign relations is exactly that. FOREIGN. i.e. dealing with other countries.

Take a look at a map. AZ is not quite in another country.

No, but creating a law based on racial profiling

Lies. Please show me in the law where it dictates them to racially profile.

undermines American values. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are not rights given by the constitution. The constitution only protects these rights. These rights are derived from natural law, in the belief that all humans inherently possess these rights.

And in order to freely exercise those rights you have to be a LAW ABIDING member of the country that protects those rights.

This law isn't much different than what Nazi Germany did against the Jews.

Lies. Please show me the similarities in the AZ law vs Germanic law.

There was a "papers, please" law put into effect,

You never get asked for your drivers license?

written in fairly similar language.

Prove it, or you are talking out of your ass.

The only difference is that instead of being sent to a work camp, they're sent back across the boarder (which they will just cross again).

And the fact that they are trying to get in here, whereas they were trying to get out of Germany.

And slavery is a heinous action that undermines American values. So what is your point?

You said that there was legal precedent for the state to not enforce immigration. That is unconstitutional.

I said there was legal precedent for the country to uphold slavery. That is unconstitutional.

Connect the dots.

I don't mean to sound callous - but - To the victors go the spoils! That being said. Is this not in fact an invasion by foreign entity? I believe it is. and its not like they aren't welcome so long as they show a bit of good faith and do it legally - is that so much to ask - is that wrong?

reply to post by antonia


And the other assumption is that everyone supporting the law is a redneck racist.