Why do you support the ILLEGALS?

reply to post by SpectreDC



Are you that naive? AZ is using almost the exact same law that he feds would beusing if they chose to enforce it. In fact, the AZ law has many areas that are taken straight from federal law, VERBATIM.

reply to post by prionace glauca


I'm going to go out on a limb and give my opinion as to why they do.

I've been reading all sort of replies to this issue for awhile now, and from what I've gathered I'd have to say that people who oppose this bill and just generally stick up for the illegals, stay INTENSLY focused on the letter of the law, the constitution, and POTENTIAL civil rights violations.

They focus on what's on paper and not on what is really going on in person and in real-time. In short, they can't see the forest through the trees. And the only way of REALLY rectifying that problem is to remove the trees.



Peace

reply to post by SpectreDC



Skin tone is not reasonable suspicion. Read the law. Talk to a border patrol agent. Get informed and DENY IGNORANCE!

reply to post by SpectreDC


First off you would do well to remember the 10th amendment which says all powers not specifically granted to the federal gov't in the const. are reserved for the states. So yes, AZ can make a bill to enforce its borders.

Secondly, not all criminal trespassers are mexican, but if a majority of them are how is that racial profiling? If 98% of criminal trespassers are of mexican descent then why would cops look for whites? They would focus on people from mexico, who have dark skin.

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
reply to post by SpectreDC

 

Are you that naive? AZ is using almost the exact same law that he feds would beusing if they chose to enforce it. In fact, the AZ law has many areas that are taken straight from federal law, VERBATIM.

You're the one that seems to be naive. It doesn't matter if it's essentially the same law, the state doesn't have the ability to MAKE that law. When the states entered the union, they gave the federal government authority to make any and all foreign decisions. Not the states. This is an immigration law, it's in the arena of foreign affairs, it's up to the federal government to take care of. So again, I ask you, do you know what the constitution is? Do you know what states can and can not do? Because clearly you don't thinking this law is constitutionally sound.


I can not believe you people are actually making me defend the federal government. I really can't believe I'm actually doing it, but you're forcing my hand by being irrational.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I have starred your post, and agree with you about immigration discussion. It is not black and white, like many things aren't. And on the subject of war, we did what we thought was necessary. God bless.

reply to post by SpectreDC


What Federal government? The Fed in whom the siting POTUS shows disgust to the Arizona Laws. The same Arizona that had requested help as along with other border states for the immigration and drug war problem.

Come November its time to get our government back by taking those ILLEGAL Aliens supporting Liberal/Republican out by our votes.

reply to post by prionace glauca

Only the last link works.
I'm sure they have tougher laws too, doing nothing to stem the tide of economic refugees. Nobody wants to share anymore. We let the poor, tired and hungry die. One world. Just imagine. Yes, your standard of living will be lower. Your moral standerd will be higher.

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
reply to post by SpectreDC

 

Skin tone is not reasonable suspicion. Read the law. Talk to a border patrol agent. Get informed and DENY IGNORANCE!

You're telling me to deny ignorance even when you're blatantly ignoring the fact that people WILL be using skin tone for suspicion, regardless of what the law allows? Are you that gullible and trusting in human nature? As a realist, I'll tell you you're highly idealistic.

Originally posted by ReVoLuTiOn76
reply to post by SpectreDC

 

First off you would do well to remember the 10th amendment which says all powers not specifically granted to the federal gov't in the const. are reserved for the states. So yes, AZ can make a bill to enforce its borders.

....You're aware that one of these powers is dealing with foreign affairs, right? Immigration is a foreign affair, it's a power granted to the federal government.

Secondly, not all criminal trespassers are mexican, but if a majority of them are how is that racial profiling? If 98% of criminal trespassers are of mexican descent then why would cops look for whites? They would focus on people from mexico, who have dark skin.

And this is where the question of ethics comes into play. In ethics there is a fairly distinct understanding in what is good, and what is right.

Racial profiling to deal with the immigration problem would be good, because it's easily the most pragmatic solution to the problem, but it isn't right. It's prejudicial.

The problem is that ethics are not all universal. A people these days are very utilitarian, which isn't bad, but I have a problem with the idea that the ends justify the means. I follow Kant heavily, and I can't say cleanly that I think this solution is ethically sound. It frankly isn't, and that's why I'm against it.

Originally posted by earthdude
reply to post by prionace glauca

 

Only the last link works.
I'm sure they have tougher laws too, doing nothing to stem the tide of economic refugees. Nobody wants to share anymore. We let the poor, tired and hungry die. One world. Just imagine. Yes, your standard of living will be lower. Your moral standerd will be higher.

Yes they have tougher laws, they hurt the protesters..bash em around a few times, destroy their tent cities, kick them out by the hundreds. Here in my country we haven't done that, If America is keen on following the Europeans..might as well start with the steps they take to take care of their Immigration problem.

Originally posted by SpectreDC

....You're aware that one of these powers is dealing with foreign affairs, right? Immigration is a foreign affair, it's a power granted to the federal government.

Ah the easily confused, Legal Immigration is a foreign policy issue. ILLEGAL immigration is a National Security Issue.

reply to post by SpectreDC


Federal, state, or local governments may make laws concerning illegal immigration.

Do your homework.

the illegals will work cheaply, long hours, no complaints, why would any good businessman want to hire americans??...jesus....this is such a no- brainer.

americans bitch about overtime, healthcare, working weekends, unsafe work locations, living wage...illegals don't do any of that...your question is answered by a big ...DUH!

Originally posted by prionace glauca

Originally posted by SpectreDC

....You're aware that one of these powers is dealing with foreign affairs, right? Immigration is a foreign affair, it's a power granted to the federal government.

Ah the easily confused, Legal Immigration is a foreign policy issue. ILLEGAL immigration is a National Security Issue.

Ah, the easily manipulated to parrot what a bunch of talking heads of fox say.

If you didn't know this, the bobbing heads on the tube aren't always right.

It might by a security issue, but it's always a foreign policy issue.

If we went to war with Iran, and a state chooses to opt out, trying to sign a peace treaty so that Iran doesn't attack the state (speaking hypothetically), is it a security issue or a foreign policy issue?

It's the same thing here. It may be security related but it is also foreign policy related.

Originally posted by jimmyx
the illegals will work cheaply, long hours, no complaints, why would any good businessman want to hire americans??...jesus....this is such a no- brainer.

americans bitch about overtime, healthcare, working weekends, unsafe work locations, living wage...illegals don't do any of that...your question is answered by a big ...DUH!

The only Americans that bitch and moan are the few who like the unemployment benefits of the FEDs Teet. Hard working Americans of which there are a lot of would just laugh at your statements and continue on working.

Again ILLEGALS are hardworking I agree, Hard working to steal the benefits that are only reserved for the citizens of the USA. Fill the out paperwork and come into our country Legally.

Originally posted by SpectreDC

Originally posted by prionace glauca

Originally posted by SpectreDC

....You're aware that one of these powers is dealing with foreign affairs, right? Immigration is a foreign affair, it's a power granted to the federal government.

Ah the easily confused, Legal Immigration is a foreign policy issue. ILLEGAL immigration is a National Security Issue.

Ah, the easily manipulated to parrot what a bunch of talking heads of fox say.

If you didn't know this, the bobbing heads on the tube aren't always right.

It might by a security issue, but it's always a foreign policy issue.

If we went to war with Iran, and a state chooses to opt out, trying to sign a peace treaty so that Iran doesn't attack the state (speaking hypothetically), is it a security issue or a foreign policy issue?

It's the same thing here. It may be security related but it is also foreign policy related.

Okay, I was trying to have civil debates with you but you would rather talk from the orifice that only spits out feces rather than substance.

And ILLEGAL immigration is a National Domestic issue, guess you never took got to that level of education.

Borders and countries are fictional constructs devised by those in power in order to divide people as opposed to bring people together. Borders, religion, and social class are the three reasons humanity has wallowed in pitiful violence for its entire history.

The push to eliminate illegal immigrants is to ensure, ultimately an "American economy"... and presto! You are all longing for State Capitalism, which is half a goosestep away from Nazi Germany. Not surprising though, considering what happened in the aftermath of WWII.

Of course, this is spoken idealistically, and unfortunately ideals are shoved away in order to keep exerting control. Us vs. them, Left vs. Right, Christian and Judaism vs. Islamic extremism... it's all the same thing with the same goal. Control.

reply to post by Retrovertigo


You are citing a 2008 report from OECD. Do you know what aid is counted by the statistics? The statistics count official flows of monies. If I give to a church and the church sends aid overseas it is not counted. In fact, if GE decides to donate 100 million in aid it would not be counted either. You can cherry pick facts all you like but the fact is this country through its taxpayers gave more in assistance than countries far larger than us in population while we were undergoing an economic crisis. Add in all private donations, relief work, and other aid and we are by far the most generous nation on this planet. I'm sure you can twist it more to suggest that the whole world looks to Belgium when it needs help but we all know that isn't true. The world looks to the United States and we always answer.

reply to post by Someone336


We are in support of stopping ILLEGALs from entering this country. How is that going towards Nazism? Is that the best arguement you can propose, just because you don't agree with the laws of the nation you can easily dismiss the concerned as followers of some xenophobic loon? POTUS isn't on the side of us hard working Amercians, this issue is something that his elitist azz will never be able to understand. Hell he is still bent on claiming that he was born in the USA. Not to get side tracked, but I am open to LEGAL immigration. Let us check your background, make sure you don't harbor diseases, you are not a criminal, etc etc.

The people who mean to cause harm to the USA use the same portals as the ILLEGAL immigrants from Mexico.

[edit on 24-4-2010 by prionace glauca]

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
reply to post by SpectreDC

 

Federal, state, or local governments may make laws concerning illegal immigration.

Do your homework.

I have, it seems you haven't. Yes, they can make their own laws and have been doing so since the 1800's. But constitutionally speaking, they have no authority to do so. But the federal government rarely if ever has come in and forced a states hand on an issue like this.

BUT, when law suits are brought against immigration policies, they can end up in federal courts. And more often than naught, they are found to be unconstitutional.

I think we're going to see an instance where the feds are going to not only force the states hand but break the wrist while we're at it.

Originally posted by prionace glauca

Originally posted by SpectreDC

Originally posted by prionace glauca

Originally posted by SpectreDC

....You're aware that one of these powers is dealing with foreign affairs, right? Immigration is a foreign affair, it's a power granted to the federal government.

Ah the easily confused, Legal Immigration is a foreign policy issue. ILLEGAL immigration is a National Security Issue.

Ah, the easily manipulated to parrot what a bunch of talking heads of fox say.

If you didn't know this, the bobbing heads on the tube aren't always right.

It might by a security issue, but it's always a foreign policy issue.

If we went to war with Iran, and a state chooses to opt out, trying to sign a peace treaty so that Iran doesn't attack the state (speaking hypothetically), is it a security issue or a foreign policy issue?

It's the same thing here. It may be security related but it is also foreign policy related.

Okay, I was trying to have civil debates with you but you would rather talk from the orifice that only spits out feces rather than substance.

And ILLEGAL immigration is a National Domestic issue, guess you never took got to that level of education.

Right, a civil debate consists of ignoring points made by a poster, ignoring questions, and asking loaded questions. So civil of you.

And again, as told above, and told again to you, it falls into the reign of foreign affairs, because it involves individuals from other countries. Just as the US has the right to protect any citizen outside of US borders, other countries have that same right. Even if a crime is committed.




I can tell you that this law won't last long anyways. Within a month, some third generation hispanic who just came back from the war will be harassed, and Arizona will get sued. It will go to federal court, and the law will be found to be unconstitutional and destroyed. I can guarantee this will happen.