It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Why do you support the ILLEGALS?

page: 16
27
<< 13  14  15    17  18  19 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 06:21 PM
link   

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by redoubt
 



Is that too much?


Is it too much for people to take out their anger on politicians rather than illegals?

Is it too much for people to take out their anger on employers who hire illegals? Don't you think some boycotting would do some good?

Nope, instead it becomes a bashing fest on illegals and sometimes Americans who just happen to have the same color as the majority of illegals.



Wow. I dare say you may have some anger issues yourself. But that aside... I think all politicians are worthless and that this subject is better discussed by those without an agenda.

Thanks for the reply, man... didn't mean to stir you.

peace.




posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 06:21 PM
link   
This post will be "esoteric garbage" to many of you, so if you're not interested in that aspect please skip.

There is a universal law called Karma. Simply put it is about "Cause and Effect". It governs the 8th & 9th realm of consciousness in Buddhism. It is a realm not seen, but more powerful and real than man-made laws.



Because the internal cause and effect exists deep inside, on a level of life which is interconnecting with all of life, eventually external causes and effects appear in response to the karma in the eighth consciousness.


source: www.sgi-uk.org...

I will not go further with this. If you want to learn more there is your good friend Google. But this is THE reason why we have this discussion here. The karmic background of this beautiful nation of ours is heavy.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 06:26 PM
link   
reply to post by redoubt
 


No anger, just responding to your post. Sometimes the writing gets misinterpreted.

Apologize if it gave you that impression.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 06:33 PM
link   
And just to bring it back to a more "grounded" level LOL ...

There is a simple way of stopping illegals by implementing two simple federal laws:

- Any business employing them must pay a penalty of US$ 1'000'000.00 per illegal.

- Automatic IRS audit of the business after the offense.

I can guarantee you that these two laws would stop illegal immigration in its track. Will such law ever be implemented? I guess you all know the answer to this.

I think we're deliberately lead to look at the answer from the wrong angle.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 06:34 PM
link   
reply to post by jam321
 


I dont doubt that many of them did indeed become productive citizens. But unless you have data showing how many did or didnt, it really isnt the point. Because I am also sure that some of them and their children did not become productive citizens. Without numbers its really not an argument. We know they are guilty of at least one crime that legal immigrants arent guilty of. Or are you arguing that illegals are better citizens in general than those who follow the laws and immigrate legally?

We have no shortage of people wanting to immigrate legally. Why do we need to give amnesty to those who come here illegally? If I go to Canada and plop myself down should they just give me amnesty? Or maybe if I go to Britain? Or Spain? Can Americans just go to any other country in the world and expect amnesty? And if not why should we be expected to have an open border with our southern neighbor if other countries dont act that way?

Its not about the fact that they are brown. (For those who insist its about race.)

Ask some English how they feel about the wave of white immigrants into England at the moment. And those are legal immigrants of the same skin color. There are many reasons people oppose illegal immigration. Some on principle, but lets not forget that resource scarcity is another reason people resent influxes of competitors.

Another issue that has nothing to do with race.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 06:40 PM
link   

Originally posted by AllIsOne

There is a universal law called Karma. Simply put it is about "Cause and Effect". It governs the 8th & 9th realm of consciousness in Buddhism. It is a realm not seen, but more powerful and real than man-made laws.


Nothing impresses me more than messages of peace, higher consciousness and karma from people who just a few posts earlier are making racist comments about Europeans and snickering about their coming extinction.

You wouldnt know higher consciousness if it bit you on the butt.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 06:43 PM
link   
reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


We can leave the race issue out. I can honestly say your discussing this in more than a fair way.

As to the legalization. In an earlier post, I said this issue has to be addressed one way or the other. That means that if they legalize them, I am fine with that. If they deport them, I am fine with that.

All I ask is that the issue be addressed so that politicians can't keep putting all the blame on illegals everytime they want to distract the public. They get the public all stirred up about the situation and in the end do nothing.

IMO, if this country can run two wars at the same time, they darn can take care of this issue.

I personally say legalize because of the cost of detaining and going after 10,000,000. IMO, it would be a political nightmare in the eyes of the world.

Furthermore, many of these kids only know one country as their own.

Like I said, it is a delicate situation. No telling how it will end up.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 06:54 PM
link   

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

Originally posted by AllIsOne

There is a universal law called Karma. Simply put it is about "Cause and Effect". It governs the 8th & 9th realm of consciousness in Buddhism. It is a realm not seen, but more powerful and real than man-made laws.


Nothing impresses me more than messages of peace, higher consciousness and karma from people who just a few posts earlier are making racist comments about Europeans and snickering about their coming extinction.

You wouldnt know higher consciousness if it bit you on the butt.


You my friend are probably right about me not knowing all about the virtues of the fourth noble truth. But please show me where I made a racist comment about Europeans? You know slander is a grave offense ...



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 07:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by jam321

All I ask is that the issue be addressed so that politicians can't keep putting all the blame on illegals everytime they want to distract the public. They get the public all stirred up about the situation and in the end do nothing.


Well one of the reasons the public is more fired up at the moment IS resource scarcity. Its not even human nature, its just animal nature in general for creatures to become more aggressively opposed to influxes of competitors for scarce resources. Right now Americans arent doing well. And Arizona is one of the states that really took a beating in the housing crash. Nothing is happening here we shouldnt expect.

And I do agree with those who say we need to address businesses who hire illegals. And some places have. There have been pushes in several states to crack down on employers and landlords who hire and rent to illegals.

We do need to make it very unprofitable for employers to use illegal labor. This is why the Republican party is so soft on the issue of illegal immigration. Businesses want illegal immigrants more than legal ones. They want to be able to pay them poorly, and treat them badly, and not have to follow health and safety laws because the illegals cant complain to anyone.

Thats the economic reason our government doesnt crack down on illegal immigration. Businesses prefer to be able to exploit labor that has no legal standing and no political voice. Making this issue about race just divides us as citizens, especially those who are hourly workers and most affected by this issue, and makes it easier for businesses to exploit the poor, legal and illegal alike.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 07:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
We have no shortage of people wanting to immigrate legally. Why do we need to give amnesty to those who come here illegally?


Very good question. I think the answer is "cui bono"? Amnesty for illegals is just a smoke screen.

Unskilled (illegal) labor is dirt cheap for businesses. Part of the US economy relies on it. I'm thinking of agriculture, construction and the culinary branch. In general legal immigrants have a higher level of education and demand a higher salary including benefits and social security payed by the employer.

PS: Just saw your post above. Absolutely


[edit on 25-4-2010 by AllIsOne]



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 07:11 PM
link   
reply to post by AllIsOne
 


Slander is a grave offense. So I will explain. When you make generalizations from "some" to "all" about a group of people where that group is defined by race, you are being racist.

Europeans or those of European ancestry are not a homogeneous group. They are not of a shared mind, or even of a single ethnicity. They are not all sharing a Karma, or sharing anything really, other than a label.

When you talk about "whites" as a group and imply that they are all guilty of something, thats racist. A form of racial profiling if you will. There are European Americans here that are less guilty of any crime against Native Americans than some Hispanic Americans are. Color does not tell you anything about a person or their beliefs, or their karmic load. At best it tells you how easily they become sunburned.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 07:15 PM
link   
reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 



Well one of the reasons the public is more fired up at the moment IS resource scarcity. Its not even human nature, its just animal nature in general for creatures to become more aggressively opposed to influxes of competitors for scarce resources. Right now Americans arent doing well. And Arizona is one of the states that really took a beating in the housing crash. Nothing is happening here we shouldnt expect.


Fair enough. I can relate to that. I just wish more people would turn their ire to the source of the problem rather than get bought off by the current political system.

Continuing two wars and supporting those who need the least resources is going to cost us more than this one issue ever will IMO.

Thanks for the discussion.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 07:22 PM
link   
reply to post by jam321
 


I agree the wars and bailouts are also pressing problems.

But the strategy used by the rich and powerful is the same. Set us to fighting among ourselves over race, religion, whatever, to prevent us from protecting our own interests.

Its not in the average Americans best interest for illegal workers to be in the country, no matter what ethnicity they are. Its in our best interests for all workers to be legal and have protections, a minimum wage, etc.

What we need to do is take a real, hard look whenever the hot button issues of race, family values, religion or fear, are being used to make us fight amongst ourselves.

United we stand, and divided we fall. And currently, the race card is the number one card being used to prevent us as a people from getting together and holding our government accountable for its actions. Terrorism and patriotism are still being used too, but race is the trump card when all else fails.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 07:38 PM
link   


No matter what you write - and it is pretty much a dimwit white-power-rant - your kind are disappearing into extinction. The world is turning "brown" in color and culture. We are getting more mixed by the second. Racial and cultural purity is absolutely laughable because it never existed. There is nothing you can do to stop it. Absolutely NOTHING . I'm typing this with a huge grin on my face and I will have a tasty burrito on your behalf for dinner. Sleep well my friend. Sweet dreams. Your days are numbered.


Fifteen pages into the thread and you are still chattering on about race without the slightest idea what you are talking about - this post serves as an example of what really goes through your mind. I'm waiting for you to bring Hitler into this - you are being inordinately slow.



If you feel Native Americans have justification for getting "revenge" against Europeans because the first ones came to America without their permission, then I guess you must feel current Americans of all colors would be justified in getting "revenge" against those illegally immigrating now. The "crime" is the same.


Thankfully there are others with the necessary understanding and eloquence to point out the contradictions which your posts are riddled with.

I also read your post on Karma. I must admit I can understand why New Age philosophies might appeal to you...



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 07:55 PM
link   

Originally posted by AllIsOne

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

Originally posted by AllIsOne

There is a universal law called Karma. Simply put it is about "Cause and Effect". It governs the 8th & 9th realm of consciousness in Buddhism. It is a realm not seen, but more powerful and real than man-made laws.


Nothing impresses me more than messages of peace, higher consciousness and karma from people who just a few posts earlier are making racist comments about Europeans and snickering about their coming extinction.

You wouldnt know higher consciousness if it bit you on the butt.


You my friend are probably right about me not knowing all about the virtues of the fourth noble truth. But please show me where I made a racist comment about Europeans? You know slander is a grave offense ...


I am the one that made the "racist" remarks in regard to european colonialists, in regard to a poster that had nothing decent to say about multi-cultural america, blacks in zimbabwe and blacks in south africa.

Illegal immigration goes beyond racism and everyone should denounce it provided the rules and regulations are fair and just-worthy. Too often however, this issue serves as a convienent red herring in an attempt to hide the real culprits such as the bankers and corporations manipulating the economy in THEIR FAVOR in total disregard of what is good for america.


Again IMO this is what needs to be done:

1)Put tariffs on asian imports in an attempt to persuade american companies to stay home or at least prevent more companies from leaving 2)Dissolve the Federal Reserve and allow the treasury department to issue money so america gets out of perpetual debt 3)Support small and medium size business by giving them tax breaks 4)THEN stop illegal immigration.

@IllusionsAreGrander I apologise for over-reacting to your post.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 08:21 PM
link   
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


No problem on the overreaction, we all get heated now and then.

And in regard to your suggestion, tariffs arent a bad idea. Its is very unfair that companies and businesses are lowering trade barriers so that their fate and well being is not tied to the fate and well being of any one nation.

What you may notice is that freedom of crossing borders is not being extended to citizens. We dont have "free trade" agreements for our labor. Governments are actually imposing more limitation in OUR free movements, not only between countries but within them as well. (The ID laws for interstate flight)

We (as citizens) need to look at our self interests realistically and without emotion. We need to try to ignore the hot button issues (race, terrorism) and figure out what is best for us, and then we need to make our governments give it to us. We have been failing at that, because we have been falling for the oldest trick in the book. Divide and conquer.

We are being led towards a one world government, run by economic interests. We need to decide if that is what we all want, if its in our best interests as a species, or if we want to remain competing individual nations. There are pros and cons to both scenarios, but it should be a choice we make consciously rather than one we are tricked into. IMHO.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 08:27 PM
link   
reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


Sorry, but I never made these generalizations about whites. There is a reason why I never will ...


I did address a poster in specific terms who is deeply ignorant about the multicultural background and beauty of the US. If you only do credit the Europeans for the merits of our culture then you are a french fry short of a happy meal. Just sayin' ...



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 08:38 PM
link   

Originally posted by D377MC




No matter what you write - and it is pretty much a dimwit white-power-rant - your kind are disappearing into extinction. The world is turning "brown" in color and culture. We are getting more mixed by the second. Racial and cultural purity is absolutely laughable because it never existed. There is nothing you can do to stop it. Absolutely NOTHING . I'm typing this with a huge grin on my face and I will have a tasty burrito on your behalf for dinner. Sleep well my friend. Sweet dreams. Your days are numbered.


Fifteen pages into the thread and you are still chattering on about race without the slightest idea what you are talking about - this post serves as an example of what really goes through your mind. I'm waiting for you to bring Hitler into this - you are being inordinately slow.


I know the Aryan brothers like Hitler, but I'm not bringing up that dude. But I see you had to go there ... another low-level ad hominem attack
I understand though. You are quickly running out of any reasonable and defendable arguments supporting your infantile idea about European culture = American culture.

You so eloquently keep shooting yourself in the foot that it's actually fun watching you disintegrate. Keep 'em coming bro. I'm having fun



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 08:41 PM
link   

Originally posted by AllIsOne
No matter what you write - and it is pretty much a dimwit white-power-rant - your kind are disappearing into extinction. The world is turning "brown" in color and culture.


Perhaps I am misreading this then. When you juxtapose "his kind" against "brown" it appears you are saying his kind is "white."

Attributing his feelings or beliefs, (or your interpretation of them, he may not agree you are interpreting them correctly) to all in the group "white" is racist.

Stating that you were happy about your prediction of whites disappearing into extinction is mean spirited at the very least. I think in general we frown on those who wish for the extinction of a whole ethnic group. I know I do.

Diversity is necessary for a strong species. We dont want the whole world to be "brown." We want the variations in color, and other traits. Not because the variations mean that some groups have more value than other groups, but because it safeguards the whole species to have variability.

Perhaps you didnt mean to sound as if you were hoping for the extinction of a whole "race" or color of people, but thats certainly what I got from that post.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 08:45 PM
link   
Most people do not particularly support illegal immigration. It is the businesses/corporations - in sync with corrupt politicians - that make a huge profit off of that cheap work force.

Let's ask them! Any business owner on here care to explain why he has illegal workers on staff



new topics

top topics



 
27
<< 13  14  15    17  18  19 >>

log in

join