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Why do you support the ILLEGALS?

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posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 12:20 AM
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reply to post by antonia
 


Well, first of all we dont know for certain what the problems would be, so we cant say for certain what we will do about them.

After all, one of the problems you mention, Americans having to pay a fair price for food, will have broad implications. Some of them positive, for various groups of people. And, there are global movements going on as well that seem to be indicating that prices will go up and the dollar will become devalued anyway.

Nothing happens in a void, there will be long chains of consequences and costs and benefits. We are a very innovative country, and we will figure it out. We will still have immigrants, many of whom will still work pretty cheaply upon arrival, as legal immigrants have throughout history. What we will be eliminating are immigrants who have no regard for our laws.

Also, consider this. Giving special treatment in the form of amnesty to one group of immigrants, (those who can walk across the border, those from our southern neighbor) is very unfair to all the other people who would like to immigrate to America from countries that do not border us. Perhaps we would be able to allow in more people from countries where famine and war were decimating people, people for whom immigration is a matter of life or death, if we werent overrun with people who couldnt be bothered to do the paperwork and who didnt give a crap about our laws.

It seems to me the people who make the strongest "humanitarian" arguments always forget that illegal immigrants displace legal immigrants in fact. If they werent here, we would need to import more labor, and more people from around the world trying to immigrate legally would qualify to get in with less education, as one group would not be monopolizing all the unskilled labor positions.




posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 01:52 AM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


That is undoubtedly the worst argument I have ever heard...if that were so, then why aren't these same hard working people at work in Mexico making the community there habitable and attractive? Why doesn't Mexico hand out food stamps, provide aid and help to its own? Instead, it writes pamphlets warning them out to protect themselves in crossing the borders. Is that any way to run a nation? Any self respecting nation wants its own natural resources which are its people to stay within its own boundaries and to provide income for its own communities....don't come with the argument that you present for it is an empty lie...



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 02:16 AM
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Originally posted by antonia

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

I wish you would read up on the problems of altruism vs free riders.

I know thats a lot, and complicated, and there is a huge body of theory behind it, but it is fascinating stuff. You might want to read up on it someday.


[edit on 24-4-2010 by Illusionsaregrander]


Ok, sounds great. Here's the problem, they are already here. You already have an economy dependent upon their labor. How do you propose to fix the issues that would be created by kicking these 7 to 20 million people out?


I think we can agree felons and repeat offenders should be deported. After that the harsh reality is, as you nailed, these people are here in numbers too massive to round up and deport... might as well deal with it.

Many have grown up and or lived here peacefully, lawfully, worked hard and made something of themselves.. who cares if these productive / responsible strangers get a piece of govt paper that allows them to continue being regular folks in their current zip code?.. gee if only the govt had a plan to let cool people in, bad ones out.. rather than an MLB free for all where the tie goes to the runner "safe!" _waves arms like umpire_

Another thing to consider is: why people migrate?, one reason is obviously because the dear party leaders of the GOP & DNC practically invited them in on a red carpet.. DC will waste trillions to invade and wreck afghanistan because ONE guy had imaginary terrorist camps there with guns & monkey bars.. yet all the politicians ever accomplish on a much more problematic issue that victimizes and adversely affects more americans than "terrorism".. is blowing smoke up party loyalists sphincters every election with phony "get tough on illegals", "fence the border" placating rhetoric that NEVER accomplishes squat... yeah-up, DC sure does care about your security... lol

Another fascinating reason I invite everyone to research on their own: the oligarch banker gangsters do nothing to change the status quo in mexico.. they make certain our southern neighbors never become an economic rival.. mexico doesn't have an empire to maintain or sucker tax payers out of needless trillions for so called "defense" spending.. that in reality is "offense" spending for whatever wars tptb have planned next... imagine a wicked cheap labor force like china next door? that spends almost nothing on "defense"? with a dollar challenging currency?.. not happening, ever.

Instead of venting anger on our fellow US soil inhabiting brother/sister humans on team "us", keep in mind it is team "them" that enables those dad gum "illegals" to move in right next door... just like team "them" made YOU a target and possible future victim of their "foreign policy" failures.. because they care, and listen.. lol

Re-electing the same 2 stale failed political party elitists who keep mexicans struggling AND give them an open border to a better life is the real immigration problem... part of the elitist game that relies on struggling people on team "us" dividing, hating.. turning on our neighbors and bickering about complex laws and lines drawn on a map.. by "them"..



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 02:32 AM
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as with any immigration law, often people seem to forget they are human beings and not "illegals". deny life just because of papers is, and i am sorry to say this, utter stupidity.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 02:50 AM
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It's not just stupidity, it's simply inhumane. We all want better for our lives and those of our progeny.

But things will get interesting shortly. I'm waiting for that mass exodus from the US to the world outside. You all still don't understand that these policies are reciprocal. You will not be welcomed, you will have no escape. Control your leaders now and you'll avoid both problems, otherwise you can expect to be stuck between the rock and hard place of proverb.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 04:18 AM
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The question is ALWAYS: cui bono?

- the Catholic Church needs the devout Mexicans to survive in the US.

- the agricultural industry in CA needs cheap labor to survive. Same thing in FL.

- 99% of house owners couldn't afford American gardeners.

- without Mexican kitchen staff 80% of LA restaurants would close shop tomorrow.

- the Democratic party needs the latino vote.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 04:26 AM
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Originally posted by Someone336
reply to post by yenko13
 


Before Mexico can fix itself we need to sort out a massive underground economy here in America that is ripping their country apart, leading to the influx of immigration here. We have two options: a more draconian, totalitarian crackdown, or freedom.

Have fun sending all those illegals home and wondering why the American economy tanks!


There are 20 million Illegal aliens and 20 million people that are out of work in THE USA , DO the math , They will leave when they find out no one cares anymore , The houses are built and the Blacks are in need of jobs



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 04:28 AM
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Originally posted by mutante
as with any immigration law, often people seem to forget they are human beings and not "illegals". deny life just because of papers is, and i am sorry to say this, utter stupidity.


Easy with the semantics


Laws are here to be enforced. Otherwise we can go back to the Wild-West and we all know how we got CA, NM and TX in 1848 ...

[edit on 25-4-2010 by AllIsOne]



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 04:37 AM
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Originally posted by nethawk
As a Native American I'd love to know who it is the OP is talking about.


Just kidding. Best let old dogs lie.


I beg to differ. As a Native American you obviously know that you are not kidding. What was taken by force will change by force again and again. That cycle will not change unless we wake up and learn how to truly co-exist.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 04:46 AM
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Originally posted by prionace glauca

Originally posted by nethawk
As a Native American I'd love to know who it is the OP is talking about.


Just kidding. Best let old dogs lie.


I don't know how or why the other poster even stuck the Native American bit in there. It seems people need to paint the racist brush when they can't put forth a debatable argument.

My only disagreement is with the way people are sympathizing with who cross the border illegally.

[edit on 24-4-2010 by prionace glauca]


You are obviously blind to the true laws of the universe. nethawk has hit the bull's eye of the problem. It seems to me that people like you paint the racist brush when they are too ignorant to see merit in a valid question.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 04:50 AM
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reply to post by prionace glauca
 



Think of this nation as your HOUSE. You put up a fence to keep strangers out, you lock your doors & windows to keep strangers out, you put up a alarm system to keep thieves and crooks out, and if all fails you call 911 to come to rescue. The citizens of the border states have been dialing 911 for the longest time, and now Arizona has come to the rescue.

To those who continue to show support against reform, do you keep your doors open, windows open, and go to sleep soundly knowing you are going to be safe?


Yep...if you're outright PARANOID, one will lock everything that they own in order to keep someone from getting "their stuff."

However, this country has a "This is mine," mentality which is no different than the ID stage (Freudian term) of a child who hasn't yet breached puberty. Don't get me wrong, I lock up my stuff just like anyone else and cannot down anyone for doing it. It is the way that we have been raised and socialized. It doesn't necessarily make it right.

I'll agree with this though. The illegal immigration situation has gotten out of hand. If I can be arrested for doing anything illegal in my own country, and someone who isn't legally registered to be here can get away with anything including receiving government funding, then, there is a definite problem. No argument there.

However, I'm not sure I want to be locked inside of my country as opposed to locking others out. Once the fence goes up, it works both ways. That's what Germany did, and I don't necessarily think its a good idea.

Be careful what you ask for...

Much love to all...



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 04:56 AM
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reply to post by D377MC
 


Your post is well written, but unfortunately deeply flawed, misguided and offensive to me. Let's just start with your premise that multiculturalism is wrong. So please define what American culture is.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 05:00 AM
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reply to post by Clark Savage Jr.
 


Please define American culture. Otherwise your post means nothing.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 05:07 AM
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reply to post by KyleBlackthorne
 


What exactly is the American way of life?

Sorry I keep asking the same question to multiple posters, but I believe this is an undefined key question.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 05:22 AM
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To quote myself from another thread, describing the stance of the far right:

Here's something that puzzles me about the extreme right as seen in this paper and elsewhere- why is it Bush was able to falsely lead us into war, sacrifice our troops for profits, pass draconian surveillance laws, everyone knows it, and the worst he gets is shoes thrown at him. I've never heard of death threats directed at dubya. The gov. has been full of snake oil peddlers for at least a 100 years, and always cherry picked the parts of the constitution they liked best. We all know we have never seen an honest politician in OUR lifetimes. So why all the animosity suddenly? Imo, this animosity is plainly based on the fact the right is extremely uncomfortable with a person of non-white descent in the highest office of the land (der taykin' ar jobs!-ya right). They see this land as intrinsically White and Christian, and everyone else as some sort of dangerous sub human alien not fit to be in the same small town. Question- who hires "illegal" immigrants to do dirty work and pay well below the value of the labor? White businessmen. Who exports jobs overseas to rake in tremendous profits off virtual slave labor? You guessed it! Republicans! We have all heard the rascist vitriol and rhetoric (purple lips, tar & feather, jihadist, nooses, bone in nose pictures, etc...) And the worst part of it all? If you have any criticism of the prez, such as why are we still in Iraq and Afghanistan? People look at you funny like some sort of rascist tea partier. If you wanted a White Christian based nation,
A:you should have never left Europe for Indian land
B:you never should have imported Twelve million Africans to be your slave labor
C:You definitely should not have destroyed economically, spiritually, and culturally the native lands of most of the immigrants here. Who in their right mind would leave their family, warm weather, and homeland for the cold winters of New York, Boston, London, etc? They come in droves because their traditional cultural ecosystem is destroyed, they're monetary systems are now tied into western banks, there's usually a war going on, and there's no longer anything to eat.
Also, what in the #3ll gives you the right to immigrate here thousands of miles across the Atlantic and poor starving Jose isn't allowed to walk a few miles across the border of the land that used to be HIS to find work?



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 05:29 AM
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Why do you support the ILLEGALS?


I don't and that's why I want the troops out of Iraq!



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 06:23 AM
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Reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint
 


Illegals make up a large chunk of the crime in america. They also send a lot of the money they earn here back to their families in mexico while not paying any taxes,but still benefiting from government programs... Completely offsetting any benefit america receives from cheap labor.

Just curious... I saw that their was a table for country by country donations. Does that include military aid distributed to the whole world such as the distribution of food and supplies. Also does that include private donations made by americans? Or is it just aid given to countries by the american government?



 
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posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 06:30 AM
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I don't support illegal immigrants but moving them out would cost too much money, cause loads of social upheaval and probably create a police state, way too large a cost just to get rid of some folk we don't like.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 06:35 AM
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Reply to post by siahchi
 


Wow you are just plainly stupid and uneducated. Congrats on graduating the 8th grade. But yes the only people who hire illegals are "white businessmen" who run corporations and ship jobs overseas lol. And the benefit of that is what? These corporations would not even benefit from having a spanish speaking employee because many illegals do not know english. They are all hired for labor positions.

A couple years ago here in wisconsin 2 Asian doctors were sent to jail I beieve for 10 years because they knowingly hired illegal immigrants to clean their house. Neighbors were very suspicious and called the cops. It was found out that they were hired at a cheap rate, provided housing and food, didn't pay a single tax and sent over half their income back to family in mexico... It's not just "white people" hiring them.



 
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posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 06:42 AM
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Reply to post by Thepreye
 


We don't have to move them out and surely do not need to form a police state. Our gov has done nothing to enforce restrictions against illegals. In some instances we have even seen our government try to extend benefits out to these people...yeah just open the flood gates to the border even more... Our gov just needs to enforce restrictions and regulate the border better. We need to genuinely work with mexico to fix this and not just say this to the american people and do the exact opposite



 
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