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AZ. All hispanics... Why not all be criminals?

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posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 03:05 AM
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Originally posted by Taupin Desciple
reply to post by jam321
 


How many white people do you know that were BORN in Mexico?

I don't know of any.

It's not racial profiling. It's common sense. And THAT my friend is an endangered species nowadays.



Peace


Lol, i support policy agains illegal inmigration in any country, is the right thing to do but what you say is pure bs, common sense? you dont know nothing about the hispanic people, Mexico have a white population of 15%, there are millions of white mexicans, as are million of white hispanics in all the continent.

So maybe you dont know white mexicans, i know, as i know white colombians, cubans, costaricans, peruvian, chileans, ecuatorians, i am myself a white venezuelan and most of my friends are white too, and even with that i have black and brown family members, in fact, i have white and brown cousins living in the United States.

So yes, why are you talking about is racial profiling because you are assuming that there are not whites mexicans, white hispanics too i suppose, so to you we all are brown, and brown means illegal because common sense says that white hispanics are a myth.

[edit on 25-4-2010 by MonteroReal]

[edit on 25-4-2010 by MonteroReal]




posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


Two points of contention:

The US Government brought us here after a 10 year waiting period. So no water rafting :p

Secondly, I really only took exception to the notion that because I'm Hispanic that I somehow MUST stand for illegal immigrants. I find that sort of generalization offensive.

I agree that our government has caused this just to line the pockets of a few. But as you know, I advocate stripping that sort of power from the government so as to prevent them from playing favorites.

I take offense to people who are against illegal immigration being called racist just because it's predominantly the brown folks to the south who come here illegally. At some point we're going to have to grow up and deal with this issue for what it is rather than what the politicians and bleeding hearts make it out to be.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 


I do know your stance on the shenanigans the government engages in, and realized I was preaching to the converted, and I did not realize what you meant by politically correct. I also get fed up with all the race baiting over this matter, and for defending those who are genuinely frustrated with this immigration fiasco I have been the brunt of some of that baiting, which I am guessing you can imagine how frustrating that might have been for me since I am not in support of this legislation. I am in support of sane laws that would fix the problem.

Did you like my busing those found to be here illegally to D.C.? I think that could work, if enough states got in on the act. Good to see you again.





[edit on 25-4-2010 by Jean Paul Zodeaux]



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 



I take offense to people who are against illegal immigration being called racist just because it's predominantly the brown folks to the south who come here illegally.


But once again, we come to the same question.

Is the goal to get rid of all illegals or only the ones who are brown?

IMO, the latter seems to be the goal.

As far as the name calling, it goes both ways. I would have never thought somebody would label me a liberal dem.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by Taupin Desciple
reply to post by Janky Red
 




Guilty until proven innocent applies to US, U.S. Citizens. The one's that were either born here or came here LEGALLY.


right... everyone else faces lynch mobs, stonings and trial by water... maybe in your county... You really have to re address this assertion and attitude, for the logic infects your entire argument.



Does the word ILLEGAL mean anything to you at all?

These are NOT U.S. citizens who broke the law and have some of their rights stripped away temporarily. These are NON U.S. citizens who have NO rights under our constitution. Period.

Our Constitution was written in the 1700's. The problem we have in AZ. didn't exist then. Trying to apply it's principles to our current problem is ludicrous and dangerous IMO.

I hear that they're having riots on the State Capitol grounds now.

Webster's definition of a terrorist:

"Violent or destructive acts commited by a group or groups in order to intimidate a population into granting their demands"

That's EXACTLY what they are doing down there. In the blink of an eye, they went from illegal aliens to terrorists.



Peace


One wrong does not make any and every opposing idea or solution right sir.

It is very hard to have intellectual discourse when one party is being blinded by emotions
and frustration. Applying the "with us or against us" litmus test always
seems to accompany things which are barely justifiable by merit alone.


On a personal note:
I have two adopted sisters, both are half Mexican, half white...
Both born here
One LOOKS Mexican
One LOOKS white

If this practice spreads, one WILL receive more attention from law enforcement
based upon how she looks, because she "might" be illegal. I am not about to
live in an America where the government or police are willing and able to
stop a person based upon the physical expression of their DNA. My sisters are as American as me, the government and the people have no right to subject other Americans to a separate standard from the rest. Yet many of you suggest me and my COHORTS are in defense of illegals... I say NO, we are not... we are in defense of other AMERICANS

My lack of an ID would be

"Opps, I guess I left it in my other pants officer, golly gee..."

While my baby sisters lack of ID would possibly lead to arrest and investigation.

We are not fascist, yet... let us keep it that way as long as we can, there are other ways.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by dgtempe
reply to post by Subjective Truth
 



Now watch the ball roll, next stop, California, New Mexico, Texas, Florida and then the entire country. This is how they wil handle it because its the most chaotic and it seems more the police state they want, rather than do something reasonable.


Well my small conspiratorial side thinks this issue could be a very convenient way to introduce something like "micro chip/biopresent ID". This is very much why I am so opposed to this attitude of "well it solves the problem, so its COOL
". The same attitude would have to be present to sell such an idea, this would be a good catalyst and could serve as a justification. Another instance where BEN'S quote shines in its sprawling
wisdom...



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by LurkerMan
American rights only apply to Americans


[edit on 24-4-2010 by LurkerMan]


NO

they apply to all people present in America-

The constitution does no say

1. right to free speech (for some)
2. right to bare arms (for some)
...

This notion is modern revision, its a slippery slope and your efforts could come back to haunt you and your descendants in ways you can never imagine now...

It behooves all of us to get this pathogen out of the public square and decidedly so...



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


Thank you. This immigration thing is dividing this forum, and people who are on the side of the illegals keep on screaming Constitution, but hey, unless you are an American Citizen, by birth or my naturalization, then our American Constitution does not protect you. Period.


SO you are saying a British fellow on vacation here is not entitled to free speech?

A Journalist from Singapore is only allowed to report upon certain things?

Honestly... If I had three hands I would be doing a triple face palm...

Again this idea is the very cancer of our american liberty, this FALSE premiss can
be used to justify anything. Benjamin Franklin was talking to YOU, you should listen



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by Tiger5
reply to post by Subjective Truth
 


Wow I completely agree. After the illegals guess who will be next on the list. History has shown that once a law is statute it can be used for reasons other than the original purpose it was drafted for.


DING DING DING!

A wise man who truly understands the process of subversion, my hat's off to you!

The Red, Horned, 60 story cannibalistic monster - that was born a blue eyed angel...



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 04:27 PM
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I think Iran should have about 50,000 military people come over on vacation and JUST stay.

That way, if war begins they can have the same rights as me!

C'mon Janky, your arguments in the last couple comments are pretty flimsy.

No, someone that has INVADED our country, does NOT have the same rights as me.

Neither does someone here with just a visa. OR, explain to me diplomatic immunity.

Yes, people that are here LEGALLY are afforded the same basic rights as me, but they cannot be on a jury, they cannot vote and a few other things.

Or would you like it legal for people here on work visas or just vacationing to be able to vote? Or the other things I mentioned?

Really stretching, really.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 04:40 PM
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reply to post by endisnighe
 





Yes, people that are here LEGALLY are afforded the same basic rights as me, but they cannot be on a jury, they cannot vote and a few other things.


You are mistaking right with privilege. You do not have a right to vote, it is a privilege that comes with citizenship. You do not have the right to serve on a jury, that comes with the privilege of citizenship, and further that privilege only comes after you've registered to vote, but you do have the right to a jury if you are charged with a crime, just the same as any other person does, or even Klingon's and Grey's and Elves and Dwarves if they are charged with a crime, and I know you well enough to know you know better.

Don't let your rage imbalance you brother. Don't loose sight of all you have learned. For the very second you diminish the rights of one person, you diminish them for us all.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by endisnighe
I think Iran should have about 50,000 military people come over on vacation and JUST stay.

That way, if war begins they can have the same rights as me!

C'mon Janky, your arguments in the last couple comments are pretty flimsy.

No, someone that has INVADED our country, does NOT have the same rights as me.

Neither does someone here with just a visa. OR, explain to me diplomatic immunity.

Yes, people that are here LEGALLY are afforded the same basic rights as me, but they cannot be on a jury, they cannot vote and a few other things.

Or would you like it legal for people here on work visas or just vacationing to be able to vote? Or the other things I mentioned?

Really stretching, really.


My arguments are sound

I have never been more sure of myself infact and that is not a common thing for me
despite all appearances.

Constitutional rights apply to ALL

You show me and explain otherwise...

We can get down like James Brown, but are sure you wouldn't like to retract any of the above??? There are some pretty imaginative parallels up there, I WILL bust through your current front without breaking a sweat... I will let you take that move back if you would like and then you can give me a couple examples of where it is common place to
deny non Americans Constitutional rights.(GWB/OBAMA policies do not count, but it would be funny if YOU employ such as an example as an ally to you argument)

Lets do this

[edit on 25-4-2010 by Janky Red]



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 04:55 PM
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Originally posted by prionace glauca
reply to post by Janky Red
 


What makes you think that the illegals have these rights? And for the LEGALS if you had any common sense and patriotism left in that soul of yours, you would step out of the way and help out. If a piece of paper can help separate people who continue to step over our rights, then why would you deny that opportunity. Be a PATRIOT and stand up for your country, we are being destroyed from within. Help combat this ILLEGAL problem and pave the way for future generation. This battle is not easy as every term in the bigot dictionary will be used against us.

Time to take the country back, one ILLEGAL at a time.


I think YOU should be a patriot and stand up for your country

You are blinded by your ambition



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by prionace glauca
 



The only scoundrels that I hate are the ones that are ashamed at what the Great of State of Arizona has done.


So you have no problem with natural born or legal Americans who are Hispanic being caught up in all of this?

Doesn't bother you that some of your fellow Americans will have to jump through loopholes to prove who they are while you provide the bare minimum?



You are the best kind of COHORT


We should take up a Joni Mitchell Concert and then do some patchouli shopping one evening...



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by Taupin Desciple
reply to post by jam321
 


How many white people do you know that were BORN in Mexico?

I don't know of any.

It's not racial profiling. It's common sense. And THAT my friend is an endangered species nowadays.



Peace


Well I do hope your position is an endangered species; also, I really don't enjoy the common scent being employed, it stinks frankly.

How many black people do you know that were born in England?

I've know more than a few myself, must be all the sun they get down there...



[edit on 25-4-2010 by Janky Red]



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by projectvxn
You know what? I'm Hispanic. Spanish is my first language, I was born in Costa Rica to Cuban parents. No everyone who speaks Spanish as a first language is against this new law. I'm all for it. If you can't come in through the front door you should be thrown out of it. Every country reserves the right to protect their borders. Just because it's illegal Mexicans who are creating the problem doesn't mean that the reaction to it is racist, or that nabbing these people is some how a kin to racism.

I would feel better if Nevada passed a law like this, as well as California, New Mexico, and Texas. The northern states need to do this as well as many illegals come through Canada as well. If my family and I can walk through the front door so can they. This is where political correctness deviates from reality. Illegal immigration by populations that don't even have an interest in assimilating, let alone obeying the laws of the nation the broke into, is a problem suffered by many countries around the world. With it comes government waste on services for illegals, violent crime, trafficking of drugs, weapons, women and children, and a whole host of other issues.

To turn a blind eye to that is ridiculous and naive.


Well man... I really appreciate your respect for the constitution and founding principles.
However, I think you are abandoning them in a situation where they couldn't be needed more. For the hardest thing to do is stand for just ideas when it does not serve your own desires, that is the ultimate test of liberty IMO.

Not EVERY solution is a good one, you need only look at this last decade of solutions
to see that.


[edit on 25-4-2010 by Janky Red]



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 06:17 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


Rage against the MACHINE-TESTIFY



Yes, I know the only time in the Constitution citizen is mentioned is in regards to being a rep or in such things as the 14th amendment. Yes I know it does not differentiate between people and non citizens. I have even used this argument.

As for differentiating between illegal aliens compared to the innocuous name our government has given them, undocumented immigrants.

Wow, sounds like one of the Obama name changes like it is no longer the war on terrorism, it is the Overseas Contingency Operation'.

I guess we should invite everyone from the world to the US and not charge them any taxes and they can just up my tax burden.

Oh well, time to play the vid-



For those that cannot see the vid-it has Bush and Gore saying the EXACT SAME THINGS!

Prosperity from free trade, remember THAT ONE!



[edit on 4/25/2010 by endisnighe]



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by endisnighe
 


We should protect our borders, we should hold those we elected accountable, and we should always, at all times, respect the rights of others. Why get mad at a dog for barking? Why be angry with a butterfly for flapping its wings? Why be angry if the sky is blue? Why be angry at people who are simply trying to escape an intolerable situation? If you must be angry, I know full well you know who it is to be angry with, if anger is necessary.

If reasonable minds can not prevail, then precisely what will prevail?



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 07:57 PM
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reply to post by Janky Red
 


No where in the Constitution are illegal immigrants protected. The Constitution applies to all lawfully residing in the US. And while I don't want to see harsh punishment befall people who enter the country illegally, it would be prudent of us to seek then out and return them home. Many illegals here are working with cartels that murder our own citizens every day. This can no longer stand. At some point we are going to have to demand that Mexico and Mexicans fix their own country. There is no will in Mexico to remove the corruption, to offer all classes of Mexicans a better life. No. Instead the government of Mexico encourages illegal immigration and the people would rather come here and reap our benefits than fixing their own mess.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 08:10 PM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 



Many illegals here are working with cartels that murder our own citizens every day.


Those gangsters that were involved in killing the diplomat and jailer husband, where they illegals? I just don't buy that only illegals are involved with the cartels.


At some point we are going to have to demand that Mexico and Mexicans fix their own country.


Yep, just like we told them to do on the war on drugs. Yep, that very war which is going on now.

Makes perfect sense for US to abandon them now. The old use and abandon system. Didn't work in Afghanistan and Iraq and won't work in Mexico.


There is no will in Mexico to remove the corruption, to offer all classes of Mexicans a better life.


Have you been to mexico? Besides reports you read, how do you know first hand what Mexico is doing to remove corruption?



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