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*Video* Small riot breaks out in Phoenix over Immigration bill

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posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 12:20 PM
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Immigration laws are antiquated and NEED to be dealt with. But not with the idiotic legislation that was passed in Arizona. It's an excuse for racial profiling. What about the Latinos who have been in the state for years and were born on American soil? It discriminates against their own citizens. This law is part of a bigger puzzle. A puzzle that would force Obama to focus on Immigration this summer which would be political suicide. I do not support illegal aliens, but we need to draw the line before any more freedoms are lost amongst our own




posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by XNeMeSis21
 


Well, we're all trying to put our heads together and fix the system, right? Regardless of the legislative actions that are used to deal with illegal immigrants, the very basis of the issue is identifying them in the first place. How do we do that... Realistically you have to start by questioning someone about their alienage. No illegal alien is going to run up to the next Border Patrol Agent or ICE Agent and volunteer that he or she is here illegally. So, we have to question them, right? So who do we question? And how do we do it without offending anyone or being accused of racial profiling?

I know you already said you don't have an answer and I appreciate that. I just want people to really think about the logistics of what they want versus the practical way of making it happen.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by JWH44
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Ok, those are all good ideas. However, I still would like this question answered; how do we identify who is illegal in the first place? I would like to know some standard that would be successful and wouldn't offend anyone.


DNA profiles... eye scans... fingerprints... photo ID's and chips required for everyone. And I mean EVERYONE. That should keep all these professional gang stalkers with too much time on their hands busy for awhile.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 12:26 PM
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reply to post by TrueAmerican
 


Amazing news! Maybe Americans will now learn that cleaning your own toilet, cooking your own food, washing your own laundry and mowing your own lawn is not so difficult after all!

-rrr



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 12:27 PM
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As a legal Mexican American I wouldn''t feel comfortable walking around in the streets of arizona, people staring wondering if I'm one of the "illegally ones".
You know what they should do make everyone in question ( brown skin people ) wear some kind of patch or form of id with a chip in so we can just scan them to make sure they are here legally without having to stop them all day.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
 



Hmm... answer what percentage of the Arizona hispanic population are actual legals and we might have somewhere to go with this one...


Rough numbers for 2005/2006...did this really quick...could be off some:

Az population ~ 6 million

Az Hispanic population ~ 30% ~ 1.8 million

Illegal Immigrant estimate ~ 500,000

So the MAJORITY of hispanics in Az are NOT illegal.

Az Demographics

Az Illegal Estimates


Ok, fine, we'll go with those low-average numbers (although nobody really knows for sure). So over 25% of the hispanic population are illegals.

I ask you this, how have Italians managed to survive this sort of 'tyranny' over the decades? Many years ago Italians were profiled as being mafioso's, and it's doubtful that more than 10% of the US Italian population were such, yet in places like New York and so on they've managed to survive the oppression?

And the fact is we all have to show our 'papers', not that I agree with it. I dont understand the Mexican Exceptionalism on this issue. Furthermore, many illegals are quite obviously as such.

It's remarkable that you expect police to literally have their hands tied when it comes to illegals. I know if a cop sees a group of whitey's all wearing pot-leaf shirts its ok for them to search everyone for 'probable cause'. I dont even like cops and courts and laws but damn there are more US citizens on food stamps and unemployment (each) than there are illegal immigrants.

[edit on 24-4-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 12:29 PM
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reply to post by TrueAmerican
 


Not surprised and for sure it is time for civil disobedience in the police state of AZ. You conservatives that claim a love of the Constitution so more to shred it every year. Rendition? A Conservative value. Withholding miranda rights? A Conservative value. Sanction of torture? A Conservative value. Warrantless wire taps and searches under the fear umbrella of "protecting us" from terrorism? A Conservative value. Nude airport scanners (they love scanning your 15 year old daughters)? A Conservative value. Now we have, "papers please" because someone looks a certain way. No matter they may be 5th generation American citizen. This is apparently a Conservative value.

So who are the real fascists, zealots and Constitution haters in America? Your friendly neighborhood Conservative.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 12:30 PM
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reply to post by JWH44
 



Ok, so do you have any better ideas on how to identify everyone that crosses the border?


Yes...I already stated it. Catch them in the illegel act of crossing the border...or you have lost your chance.

A witch hunt based on skin color isn't the correct solution.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by JWH44
Ok, those are all good ideas. However, I still would like this question answered; how do we identify who is illegal in the first place?


You don't. Well, you don't go out on the streets and start asking all the brown people for ID.
That's what you DON'T do.

The steps I listed will take care of a GREAT deal of illegal immigration problems. Companies will STOP hiring them. If they cannot get a job here, they will not come here. The problem is that AMERICAN companies are hiring them for cheap wages. If the threat of multi-million dollar fines and imprisonment are hanging over the heads of CEOs, they will be certain to check the citizenship of EVERYONE that they hire, white, brown, black or blue.

This new law threatens to suspend their licenses for some time. Ouch!


Also, the biggest problems many have with illegal immigrants are that they use our medical system, government assistance, our educational system and they commit crimes. If we put a filter on each of these - that guarantees that only legal citizens can obtain these services, and those caught in this filter will be sent to immigration, it will screen out the vast majority of illegal immigrants. If they cannot obtain these services, they won't come here.

In other words we crack down on illegal immigration by, over time, sifting through the population who use these services. EVERYONE gets checked. How can people get offended if everyone who uses these services gets checked?

Does that answer your question?

[edit on 4/24/2010 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by Hedera Helix

Originally posted by JWH44
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Ok, those are all good ideas. However, I still would like this question answered; how do we identify who is illegal in the first place? I would like to know some standard that would be successful and wouldn't offend anyone.


DNA profiles... eye scans... fingerprints... photo ID's and chips required for everyone. And I mean EVERYONE. That should keep all these professional gang stalkers with too much time on their hands busy for awhile.



This is acctualy a good idea and would be the fair thing to do. But will never happen, lets all just stick to the new law so we can discriminate and stomp on the rights of many legal law abiding citizens.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 12:36 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


So when the illegal Mara Salvatrucha slips through the border and ends up killing someone you love you will not blame the Border Patrol or anyone else responsible for securing the border. Right? I just want to be sure. I'm not being antagonistic, I just want to be clear.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by XNeMeSis21
As a legal Mexican American I wouldn''t feel comfortable walking around in the streets of arizona, people staring wondering if I'm one of the "illegally ones".
You know what they should do make everyone in question ( brown skin people ) wear some kind of patch or form of id with a chip in so we can just scan them to make sure they are here legally without having to stop them all day.


If you don't want to offend one group... then chipping should be required for EVERYONE. If you truly want a law that is enforceable... then you've got to be willing to make that sacrifice. Otherwise they're gonna be forced to do things to people on the sly to get the job done... which I suspect has already been implemented anyways. Take your pick.

[edit on 24/4/2010 by Hedera Helix]



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 12:36 PM
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reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
 



Therefore, this is for you OutKast Searcher, do you suppose we build a wall that they'll never be able to get past? Oh, and if illegals are stopped say in a traffic incident, if they're justifiably identified should they be automatically deported????


IMO building a wall is a waste of money because it won't solve the problem...but I wouldn't be arguing against it if that is what was decided. If the government wants to build anything on their side of the border...more power to them. But isn't going to work.

For your second question...this shouldn't be the job of local police officers..because as I have been arguing...it will lead to profiling of innocent American citizens. ICE does their job...they do raids all the time...but they investigate and do it properly...they may not do it fast enough for some people...but they do their job. Giving local cops this authority is just insane. So if ICE investigated someone...not a local cop...then I have no problem if they are deported as long as it doesn't harm another american citizen( i.e. their children).



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


But this would still require someone to PROVE to the hospital, DMV or any other government service that they are legal. I have no problem with that. But what is an issue is, again, how do you make it simple to PROVE that you are a legal US Citizen? Social Security card? Driver's license? Birth Certificate? All easily obtained by illegal aliens.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 12:44 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Wait a minute... how do you think ICE identifies illegal aliens? How do they determine who is an illegal alien? What do they use as suspicion to justify questioning someone about their citizenship?



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by JWH44
But what is an issue is, again, how do you make it simple to PROVE that you are a legal US Citizen? Social Security card? Driver's license? Birth Certificate? All easily obtained by illegal aliens.


Birth certificates and a call to the state's health department to confirm.

"Hello, this is so-and-so from IBM, certification number 69993852. I'm calling to confirm the citizenship of Richard Martin Jones, male, born September 15th, 1971 in Coral Gables, CA. Parents' names are blah, blah blah. Can you confirm this person's birth in your state?

"Yes? Thank you."

Or

"No? Thank you." *presses button to alert security*.

[edit on 4/24/2010 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


oh but if I were to go to mexico on vacation, and get stopped at the border on the way back, i suppose thats profiling too?im an american citizen and based on your logic hes just supposed to already somehow know that.

whether they stop you at the border or in the the country the REASON for the stop is THE SAME. to VERIFY citizenship.

your logic is LAUGHABLE



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


So then you admit that people need to be able to PROVE that they are legal United States citizens by carrying some form or document in the event that they are suspected of being illegal?



[edit on 4/24/2010 by JWH44]



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 12:48 PM
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"the recent efforts in Arizona, which threaten to undermine basic notions of fairness that we cherish as Americans"


Apparently, taking legal action against people who are in this country illegally is unfair and unjust. There's so much hypocrisy here. Someone needs to just put a foot down and say enough is enough.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

IMO building a wall is a waste of money because it won't solve the problem...but I wouldn't be arguing against it if that is what was decided. If the government wants to build anything on their side of the border...more power to them. But isn't going to work.


In your opinion, what will work?

I find it a tad laughable that your kosher with letting illegal aliens stay in the country once they make it over the border, claim to be arguing for citizens rights, and then state you wouldn't argue against the government wasting our money on a wall. Champion of citizens rights..?

Do you actually have a philosophy you stick to.. or is the philosophy to disagree and post the same inflammatory sarcastic comments to people until you get one to respond to you?



For your second question...this shouldn't be the job of local police officers..because as I have been arguing...it will lead to profiling of innocent American citizens. ICE does their job...they do raids all the time...but they investigate and do it properly...they may not do it fast enough for some people...but they do their job. Giving local cops this authority is just insane. So if ICE investigated someone...not a local cop...then I have no problem if they are deported as long as it doesn't harm another american citizen( i.e. their children).


lol did you read the penalty for hiring illegal aliens? $375 bucks. ouch. Boy, ICE is a cold hearted mother when it comes to enforcing those laws eh?

ICE is a joke.

If ICE WAS doing its job, the illegal immigration rate would be going down. It is not. ICE is failing at what they are employed to do and if it were you and I failing in our workplace, we would be fired. But this okay to look over though because I see you are in favor of the government wasting our money lol

/smacks self for feeding troll



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