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*Video* Small riot breaks out in Phoenix over Immigration bill

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posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by Ptenjakin
As long as this goes, people on both sides will be generalizing as follows:

Against the bill:
-All the cops will profile
-All US citizens will be humiliated and harassed
-Everyone for this bill is racist

For the bill:
-All illegals are Mexican



Arguments for Against the bill:
- I don't want to carry my ID
- Racial Profiling

Arguments from people who think they understand the bill:
- This bill targets brown people
- This bill allows cops for just cause if you are just walking (Just cause applied when walking would be, if you were in the vicinity of a crime and walking away from the location while matching eyewitness testimony)

What the Bill actually states:

1. Requires a reasonable attempt to be made to determine the immigration status of a person during any legitimate contact made by an official or agency of the state or a county, city, town or political subdivision (political subdivision) if reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the U.S.

2. Requires the person’s immigration status to be verified with the federal government pursuant to federal law.

3. Requires an alien unlawfully present in the U.S. who is convicted of a violation of state or local law to be transferred immediately to the custody of ICE or Customs and Border Protection, on discharge from imprisonment or assessment of any fine that is imposed.

4. Allows a law enforcement agency to securely transport an alien who is unlawfully present in the U.S. and who is in the agency’s custody to:

a) a federal facility in this state or

b) any other point of transfer into federal custody that is outside the jurisdiction of the law enforcement agency.

5. Allows a law enforcement officer, without a warrant, to arrest a person if the officer has probable cause to believe that the person has committed any public offense that makes the person removable from the U.S.

6. Prohibits officials or agencies of the state and political subdivisions from being prevented or restricted from sending, receiving or maintaining an individual’s immigration status information or exchanging that information with any other governmental entity for the following official purposes:

a) determining eligibility for any public benefit, service or license provided by any federal, state, local or other political subdivision of this state;

b) verifying any claim of residence or domicile if that verification is required under state law or a judicial order issued pursuant to a civil or criminal proceeding in the state;

c) confirming a detainee’s identity; and

d) if the person is an alien, determining whether the person is in compliance with federal alien registration laws.

7. Disallows officials or agencies of the state or political subdivisions from adopting or implementing policies that limit immigration enforcement to less than the full extent permitted by federal law, and allows a person to bring an action in superior court to challenge an official or agency that does so.

8. Requires the court, if there is a judicial finding that an entity has committed a violation, to order any of the following:

a) that the plaintiff recover court costs and attorney fees;

b) that the defendant pay a civil penalty of not less than $1,000 and not more than $5,000 for each day that the policy has remained in effect after the filing of the action.

9. Requires the court to collect and remit the civil penalty to the Department of Public Safety (DPS), which must establish a special subaccount for the monies in the account established for the Gang and Immigration Intelligence Team Enforcement Mission (GIITEM) appropriation.

10. Specifies that law enforcement officers are indemnified by their agencies against reasonable costs and expenses, including attorney fees, incurred by the officer in connection with any action, suit or proceeding brought pursuant to this statute to which the officer may be a party by reason of the officer being or having been a member of the law enforcement agency, except in relation to matters in which the officer is adjudged to have acted in bad faith.




posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 05:49 PM
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reply to post by prionace glauca
 


As a citizen of the United States, I am wondering what is so wrong about this bill..



I dunno what the fighting and violence is all about.. Am I missing something?



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by Night Star

Originally posted by greenovni

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by greenovni
In Arizona, the Americans WERE the original illegal aliens!


What were the immigration laws at that time?


Which is exactly the point! Come to a place, steal the land, then with your little group of friends "make up" a "law" that benefits you only.


When I was born laws were in place. No one alive today had anything to do with stealing land from the indians. These are completely different times. Hell, one of my indian ancestors immigrated from Canada to America and joined with other tribes here as most of their own in Canada were killed off. We are living in today not yesterday. Today we have laws.


The problem with these "laws" is that they are not laws at all, they are "statues" which are just rules that have color of law.

Let's say that a group of people go over your house, takes you and your family to a reservation, then sit @ your kitchen table and say something like:

"Hey guys, I have a great idea, I move to pass a bill called the Night Star relocation bill, from today forward, if Night Star or any of his descendants tries to come into this land they are "illegal" and should be jailed"

50 years from now, your son tries to come into the land he is considered and demonized as an illegal, is it ok because when you were relocated it was in the past?



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Originally posted by greenovni
The way to stop this illegal immigration problem is easy.

New "law": Any company/employer who employees illegal aliens will be fined as followed:

1-10 illegals = $55,000 fine per illegal
11-20 Illegals = $100,000 fine per illegal
20+ Illegals = Closure of your company and CRIMINAL charges to the whole board of directors.


Not a bad idea, except it will only run off the good 'ol souls who are just trying to mail money home to their families. It wont directly weed out the ones who are only here for crime. Then they'll have to be 'profiled'... not to mention all the various service industry mom and poppers out there who don't have a typical place of business to be inspected. But vastly more importantly is weeding out the organized crime.


When the "good" illegal aliens are not there because the jobs are not there, the police will be able to do what they are supposed to do in the first place.

Go after criminals!



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 05:56 PM
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reply to post by greenovni
 


its time to vote, and restore our government, so we do not have to be in fear of Tyranny brother.
I hear ya, I have been burned by the system as well Hence (child support) In the worst way I have a ex wife who is a bum not working playing the system as well, yet if I do not pay CS, each week I can goto jail, so yeah lets talk about fair. Get out and vote.

Yet to stay on topic, I do not agree with violence about this. Gotta be smarter then that..


Soon perhaps the government will work right, in just a few decades it will be hard to be racist, since all people in America, will be bi-racial, perhaps at this Zenith, we will no longer have this excuse and be able to just call spades, spades brother.. It seem we are not evolved enough to see right from wrong in 2010. Yet I still see your concern, about how bad things can occur.. Its just a matter of time until white people, the bad guys will no longer be around..
IF AMERICA, last that long. *shakes his head*



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by greenovni
 


Greenovni, no police officer should have treated you the way they did. I would have reported them for their bad behavior. Even though I am against illegal immigration, I expect the police to treat people decently wether they are illegal or not.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 06:11 PM
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Originally posted by Bicent76
reply to post by greenovni
 


its time to vote, and restore our government, so we do not have to be in fear of Tyranny brother.
I hear ya, I have been burned by the system as well Hence (child support) In the worst way I have a ex wife who is a bum not working playing the system as well, yet if I do not pay CS, each week I can goto jail, so yeah lets talk about fair. Get out and vote.

Yet to stay on topic, I do not agree with violence about this. Gotta be smarter then that..


Soon perhaps the government will work right, in just a few decades it will be hard to be racist, since all people in America, will be bi-racial, perhaps at this Zenith, we will no longer have this excuse and be able to just call spades, spades brother.. It seem we are not evolved enough to see right from wrong in 2010. Yet I still see your concern, about how bad things can occur.. Its just a matter of time until white people, the bad guys will no longer be around..
IF AMERICA, last that long. *shakes his head*


Hey Bicent76 nice to meet you too


Please do not get me wrong, white people are not bad guys. We, as a whole society are bad guys! (White, black, brown, yellow it really does not matter, we treat each other like #)

I am no longer in fear of tyranny, I found their ways (Admiralty laws / courts of contract) and I use their own laws against them.

I corner the judge, the police or any other person in their own courts with some particular set of questions and steer them my way while staying "honorable" at all times.

I too have been screwed royally by the CS system so I'm with you there.

Violence is never the way, the way, (at least in my case) is to be the stupid latin guy who knows nothing and just like a simple lamb ask the questions, corner them, get them to admit that their courts are courts of contract (which they never do) and get them to dismiss and do things my way.

I am no longer a child of the State, I am now a man who can stand on his own and play chess with them


I am just really amazed as to what is happening in Arizona

You have a group of white illegals calling a group of brown illegals... illegals!



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 06:12 PM
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I'm not sure what all this talk about birth certificates is about. The first thing 'legals' should be doing anyways is getting a drivers license. I dont see the harm in permitted 'guest workers' getting to take drivers exams. Even if not they can get state ID. Afterall, when you move to an address in FLorida you get 30 days to convert your ID:

You Have 30 Days
Florida law requires that you get a Florida drivers license within 30 days of becoming a resident of Florida. You are a resident if you do one of the following:

Enroll your children in a Florida public school
Accept employment
Register to Vote
File for a homestead exemption
Reside in Florida for more than six consecutive months
www.dmvflorida.org...



Originally posted by greenovni
Have the IRS collect the massive fines given to all of these companies that hire illegals. Start the fines at $55,000 per illegal and up up to criminal prosecution of the whole board of directors.

It's just like the drug problem, go after the drug dealers and fine them, tax them, jail them out of existence!

If there are no jobs in Arizona for illegals, there would be no illegals in Arizona.


Hiya!

Having millions of other illegals around to provide the criminals cover and networking surely helps facilitation.

This method would be rather effective in running off scores of them. But then again I'm weary of the FedGov getting any more power, and more specifically I'm opposed to the IRS getting any more money. As long as it were the states legislating it, and therefore collecting the fines, this would be an ideal solution.

The states, many of which are economically destitute, wouldn't collect a heafty pricetag per head with the cops rounding them up. Would cost more, in comparison. Said fines would surely motivate them, but this would have a more noticable affect on market prices as more businesses get major blows to their bottom lines during the transition. It could be scary seeing the states go into this sort of overdrive, but currently they have the poplice apparatus going after citizens for tickets and everything else they can squeeze.

But cops should still be able to detain, should be motivated to detain illegals when they come across them 'on the beat'. It's my understanding that this is currently quite the opposite in most places. Illegal runs a red light and gets stopped, or gets in an accident, shouldn't he have to go?

This all sucks of course, but we're on the brink of collapse in the US and there are more unemployed than there are illegals.
www.usdebtclock.org...



[edit on 24-4-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by Night Star
reply to post by greenovni
 


Greenovni, no police officer should have treated you the way they did. I would have reported them for their bad behavior. Even though I am against illegal immigration, I expect the police to treat people decently wether they are illegal or not.


I did report, nothing happened
But I am GLAD that these things have happened to me as I've had my eyes opened for over 20 years now (Since I was 19)

My eyes are so opened that I know that if I don't stand up for my own freedom I can't bitch and moan when people try to take them.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 06:26 PM
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reply to post by TrueAmerican
 





Can you imagine if 10,000 Americans went down to Mexico illegally, waved American flags in their faces saying they were going to take over Mexico, and caused a riot when Mexico enacted tougher illegal immigration laws?


"That is what Americans are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan." (This message was sponsored by Dummies for Dummies.)



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 06:29 PM
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Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
I'm not sure what all this talk about birth certificates is about. The first thing 'legals' should be doing anyways is getting a drivers license. I dont see the harm in permitted 'guest workers' getting to take drivers exams. Even if not they can get state ID. Afterall, when you move to an address in FLorida you get 30 days to convert your ID:

You Have 30 Days
Florida law requires that you get a Florida drivers license within 30 days of becoming a resident of Florida. You are a resident if you do one of the following:

Enroll your children in a Florida public school
Accept employment
Register to Vote
File for a homestead exemption
Reside in Florida for more than six consecutive months
www.dmvflorida.org...



Originally posted by greenovni
Have the IRS collect the massive fines given to all of these companies that hire illegals. Start the fines at $55,000 per illegal and up up to criminal prosecution of the whole board of directors.

It's just like the drug problem, go after the drug dealers and fine them, tax them, jail them out of existence!

If there are no jobs in Arizona for illegals, there would be no illegals in Arizona.


Hiya!

Having millions of other illegals around to provide the criminals cover and networking surely helps facilitation.

This method would be rather effective in running off scores of them. But then again I'm weary of the FedGov getting any more power, and more specifically I'm opposed to the IRS getting any more money. As long as it were the states legislating it, and therefore collecting the fines, this would be an ideal solution.

The states, many of which are economically destitute, wouldn't collect a heafty pricetag per head with the cops rounding them up. Would cost more, in comparison. Said fines would surely motivate them, but this would have a more noticable affect on market prices as more businesses get major blows to their bottom lines during the transition. It could be scary seeing the states go into this sort of overdrive, but currently they have the poplice apparatus going after citizens for tickets and everything else they can squeeze.

But cops should still be able to detain, should be motivated to detain illegals when they come across them 'on the beat'. It's my understanding that this is currently quite the opposite in most places. Illegal runs a red light and gets stopped, or gets in an accident, shouldn't he have to go?

This all sucks of course, but we're on the brink of collapse in the US and there are more unemployed than there are illegals.
www.usdebtclock.org...



[edit on 24-4-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]


Funny coincidence, I am in Florida too
Wanna get together and come with a bill to introduce to the Florida senate?

We can call it:

"The get the State back into the black by breaking hirers of illegals act" or SB 147 for short.

Where the State of Florida would have the power instead of the Feds, we would make history as well as being hated by tons of companies.

No jobs, no illegals. It's that easy!

And yes, a police officer should be able to detain an Illegal, if he KNOWS that that person is illegal.

I am fully against "Your papers please" as this is just another step towards total police / state control over the population.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by greenovni
 


It would be interesting to see how that would pan out business wise for states who wouldn't pass it.

Measures as any of these would send scores of illegals packing to other states. Enough influx to the other states would help motiave them to do something. Different states are going to find their own ways I suppose.

If the FedGov were getting universal power as such it would be scarier, but aren't the immigration police maily federal anyways? 50,000 more federal agents being added per state, immigration or not, could be a bad thing.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 06:43 PM
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Originally posted by Ptenjakin
You see an Asian person, or an Indian person, or a European person, your first thought isn't illegal immigration. You see an an Asian, Indian, European community, your first thoughts aren't about gang fights, theft, poor economy.


And your point is that when I see a Hispanic person, my first thoughts are of illegal immigration, gang fights, theft and poor economy??? Is that what I'm supposed to infer from this comment?

Really? That's what I think? I've lived in the SW for over 25 years of my life. When I see a Hispanic person, I know I'm home. So, don't tell me what I think when I see them. That's YOUR experience. Own it.



The illegal immigration problem occuring in the border states are perpetuating these stereotypes and lowering standards for EVERYONE.


You are perpetuating these stereotypes. It's entirely within your power to stereotype or not. You're choosing to. Take responsibility for it.


Originally posted by greenovni
Which is exactly the point! Come to a place, steal the land, then with your little group of friends "make up" a "law" that benefits you only.


So. There were no immigration laws. What you're describing may be considered immoral, and with that, I agree. But what the founding fathers did was not against any law or "illegal" as far as I know. Immoral, yes. Illegal, no. They were NOT illegal immigrants, as your first statement claimed.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 06:43 PM
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reply to post by greenovni
 


I agree, yet factor in bureaucracy, its they know to do. Thinking to fix the problem, in such a state. Very broad.. Its how it always happens, and yes abusers come outta the ashes of the phoenix. Sincerely I do not think a law should have to be passed. Yet it is abused without such a climatic, almost communistic approach that hurts all, and yes it proves we seem to not be able to function as a whole without someone saying.... WRONG..


What's a better idea brother?

I also agree with fines but what of the crime? The violence.. We are looking at a different breed now.. Totally resect and will say your doing a good job for people to see that side...



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 06:44 PM
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reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
 


I am starting to think that these States are just happy with the status quo and get money from the FEDs to cover all these programs that help illegals.

I am quite interested in seeing how all of this is going to pan out.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Ptenjakin
You see an Asian person, or an Indian person, or a European person, your first thought isn't illegal immigration. You see an an Asian, Indian, European community, your first thoughts aren't about gang fights, theft, poor economy.


And your point is that when I see a Hispanic person, my first thoughts are of illegal immigration, gang fights, theft and poor economy??? Is that what I'm supposed to infer from this comment?

Really? That's what I think? I've lived in the SW for over 25 years of my life. When I see a Hispanic person, I know I'm home. So, don't tell me what I think when I see them. That's YOUR experience. Own it.



The illegal immigration problem occuring in the border states are perpetuating these stereotypes and lowering standards for EVERYONE.


You are perpetuating these stereotypes. It's entirely within your power to stereotype or not. You're choosing to. Take responsibility for it.


Originally posted by greenovni
Which is exactly the point! Come to a place, steal the land, then with your little group of friends "make up" a "law" that benefits you only.


So. There were no immigration laws. What you're describing may be considered immoral, and with that, I agree. But what the founding fathers did was not against any law or "illegal" as far as I know. Immoral, yes. Illegal, no. They were NOT illegal immigrants, as your first statement claimed.


I am sure they were not invited over by the natives.

They murdered indians by the scores, not illegal? or is it that it is only illegal if a bunch of people put it on paper that this act from now own is illegal?



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by greenovni
 


heard someone tell me sometime ago..

Do you want to live in a house messy and dirty? Or in a house that is clean and tidy? Right now I see America, as that messy and dirty house... Very uncomfortable, when you get home, seeing all the dirty dishes, and why should we have to listen to the kids giving us excuses to why the house is not clean, and the chores not done? Also why the crap would we allow such excuses be made to live in a dirty nasty house? Yes Its that simple Brother...
Yet its not heard, instead we focus on the excuses to the why its dirty, and try to understand it.. Back to my 2nd reply to you brother.. Its very, very sad.. Also disheartening, I am sweating, bleeding and crying to protect my family from such madness, I hope you are as well.

We are living in a age where excuses can be a truth, for a reality not lived.. A wrong can now be right in 2010... Did you hear me...

[edit on 24-4-2010 by Bicent76]



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 06:53 PM
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reply to post by greenovni
 


the past has already been settled...



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 06:53 PM
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reply to post by greenovni
 


STATUTES!! Lady Liberty....is a STATUE...

Second line



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 06:58 PM
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I always come back to the sobering reality that if Americans pulled 10% of this stuff in Mexico...we could LITERALLY be decapitated, our bodies dumped in Rivers and landfills, our families extorted, spit on, beat up, jailed, our NUTS cut off on swinging from a tree...

Yet, Mexican nationals declare we are 'harsh'. It's one of the most bizarre things I've seen in my life.



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