Proof gay people are second class citizens.....my experience with the police tonight

Originally posted by TerribleTeam2
Ok, 2 quick questions dude.

1) If there were 6 of you, and only him, and he pulled the knife, why not just drop him on the spot??? The numbers are in your favour, and apparently this was all on camera, so you can claim self defence if it goes to court.

Actually we did but the bouncers threw him out instead of apprehending him for the police. Leaving us to deal with him when we left the establishment.

Remember that the big incident didn't happen in the bar. It happened outside.

Yes, we could have apprehended him, but then one of us may be in the hospital with stab wounds.

Isn't that the job of the cops? Hence back to square one.

Don't take this the wrong way dude, but it just sounds like you are a bit lazy yourself. You are going to wait til the morning to sort things out. You don't want to walk to the station tonight. And either did your friends.

Hypocrisy much????

It is not our job, but the police's. How is that hypocritical?

Or are we now suppossed to play cops and robbers ourselves?

I guess my ire stems back to my incident last August.

I was gay bashed (pretty bad....broken nose, almost broken jaw, still have nerve damage in my chin and left hand).

Anyway, I thought that since the cops showed up on scene that they would have filed a report of the incident. Well, when I asked for my report a week or 2 later (needed time to heal) there wasn't one. I had to make a police report with the GLLA.

That is why we have a GLLA in the first place. Because the cops here are very prejudiced against gay people. Not all but a lot.

One thing I can praise them on is that after I made the report, the city reimbursed me for all my medical bills. Which added to about $4500.

reply to post by Nutter



I read your post right after you posted last night and the part that confused me was that you never mentioned going over to the cops, just that you saw them across the street. In a later post, it seems like you did go over there, could you clarify?

If you did go over there, odds are there is a video of you (or your friends) speaking to the 5-0. And since it was across the street from a gay bar, I assume the management is not prejudice against gay people. So they may want to help.

The other thing I suggest is that you do play hard ball with the bar. I have been in a bar when someone was kicked out for being too vulgar. And that was his first offense. He still gets bounced if he even parks his car there. If this guy routinely causes problems, the bar is just being lazy and not taking care of their patrons.

One time I had a problem with a waitress at one bar here in town, first time I Was ever there, and told the manager that they lost the buisness of me and my friends. He never saw any of us before but comped each of our tabs (an easy 100 bucks). I imagine if you are regulars that they would jump through hoops for you. Bars tend to be like that. And the black thing shouldn't matter. It's a private establishment, and since he has a history of being derogatory towards the target demographic of the bar, there is more then enough reason.

Also, if the attack happened right in front of the bar, I'd venture to say that the bouncers did not do their job correctly.


And I will say from experience, waiting to complain officially about anything is ALWAYS a bad idea.

Originally posted by iamsupermanv2
I read your post right after you posted last night and the part that confused me was that you never mentioned going over to the cops, just that you saw them across the street. In a later post, it seems like you did go over there, could you clarify?

They drove off as we were crossing the street. We were on the phone with dispatch. We just thought that dispatch would have called it in to the nearest police squad car (which was already at the corner we were at).

In defense of the police it could have happened too fast for them to dispatch to this squad car.

The other thing I suggest is that you do play hard ball with the bar. I have been in a bar when someone was kicked out for being too vulgar. And that was his first offense. He still gets bounced if he even parks his car there. If this guy routinely causes problems, the bar is just being lazy and not taking care of their patrons.

In defense of the bar, the guy had only been there a few times prior and didn't cause trouble but made statements.

Also, if the attack happened right in front of the bar, I'd venture to say that the bouncers did not do their job correctly.

Actually the second attack happened around the corner (1/2 block away).

And I will say from experience, waiting to complain officially about anything is ALWAYS a bad idea.

I understand that. On a side note: We have made a formal complaint this morning.

[edit on 24-4-2010 by Nutter]

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Originally posted by PublicDefenseCorp

How about you keep your fruit ass the # home, stop being an alcoholic, and you wouldn't have to worry aboput doing nothing about this as usual.

My 2 cents.

"Fruit", like you really needed to add that. Jeez! Are you one of those self laothing mo's that beat up other mo's? Just asking?

Nutter, sorry to hear about your problems present and past. What the heck is going on where you live?

I say work out a little a harder, take a self defense class and change your demeaner if these events are re-occuring. Lets face it, Muscles or not, if you seem effeminate (I don't know if you are), you become an easy target by the likes of the poster I quoted.

Stay safe. Go home earlier from the bars and less frequently. D.C. totally sucks. Lived there for 5 years.

Just my one cents, I'm on a budget.

Serve and Protect .....is the Law Enforcement motto.



And how soon we forget, here on ATS.

Anyone here recall the thread where an individual attempts to file a complaint at the local PD and was given the run around, eventually threatened with arrest for trespassing himself by the PD himself ?

As far as the OP's episode...

I actually had this happen to a Hispanic musician friend of mine in Miami who was attacked and fought back.

He was returning home after a gig early in the morning. When these two German tourists approach him asking for directions.

When he turns around to point which way they needed to go, they sucker punch him and begin wailing on him.

He ends up owning the 2 guys only to be charged himself with vigilantism by the judge in the end.

This is how the justice system works for those that are second class citizens.

If you try and apprehend this guy yourself and end up kicking his a$$, as was deserved, the now victim can now take you to court and due to the numbers, the courts will then claim "Vigilantism" and you end up in trouble.

My friend now has a Felony assault conviction when it was he whom had originally been attacked.

Ok, So you try to do the correct thing by calling the PD and you get no response ?

Where is the Serve and Protect ?

Originally posted by brilab45
Lets face it, Muscles or not, if you seem effeminate (I don't know if you are), you become an easy target by the likes of the poster I quoted.

Not effeminate in any way. Just was out numbered.

I work in the construction industry. You would never know I was gay unless you saw me at the gay bar or I told you.

Stay safe. Go home earlier from the bars and less frequently. D.C. totally sucks. Lived there for 5 years.

I agree. I can't wait to move away from here. It's not all bad, but seems to be getting worse. It was better for a while but I think this new 20 something generation is really bad when it comes to the sense of right and wrong (no offense to this generation outside of DC).

They may not have heard about the incident on the radio yet. Police are good people, the majority of them, and they are always there to help in a crisis. In most places the training is rigorous for police and they are truly really great. In some places though, the police are backwards and don't know what they're doing.

Your first mistake is thinking that police are actually there to protect you, they are not. It is your responsibility to protect yourself. It is the job of police to investigate crime. Had you been stabbed, the police would have shown up and investigated, however you were not. So your call of a knife wielding assailant who is running away from you, will take a low priority in the list. That is just the way it is. You can not really fault the police for a cruiser being across the street. The person you spoke to on the phone, probably didnt even send it out over the radio, so the guys in the cruiser of course wouldn't have had any idea. Had you informed them of what was going on, and they still did nothing, then I'd say you would have a reason to complain. However according to your story you didnt say anything to the police on the scene.

The fact is, police do not stop crime. You can assign a million police to one city, and crime will still happen. They will be there after the fact to investigate and maybe even find the bad guy and put him away, but they are not going to be there when you really need them. How many times have you heard a 9-11 call from a person who is calling about an intruder in the house? Only to have the idiot on the phone ask a million questions while the intruder walks up, takes the phone and kills the homeowner? It is your responsibility to protect yourself, and in the case you described it is a perfect example of why exercising your 2nd amendment right is a good thing! Ever hear the old expression "never bring a knife to a gun fight"?

Nutter, just had to add. Us gay people have been and will always be 2nd class citizens in the good ole US of A. Just like blacks, hispanics, etc.

If your not a white heterosexual, christian claiming republican.....you are a 2nd class citizen. Sorry if I am turning your thread a bit. But it is quite true.

We just have to work with what we got. The police are apethetic to the concerns of the GLBT community and they definitely like to eff up the lives of colored people (inclusive of blacks and hispanics). Just a fact we have to live with.

Christians and Muslims would like to see us stoned to death, hung or some other gruesome death. Religion is so evil.

People are taught to hate and it begets more hatred.

Edited to ensure you got a star and flag from me.

[edit on 24-4-2010 by brilab45]

I have never really had a problem with the police per say, but then again I am big enough that most people leave me be (aside from the few that think gay = limp wristed sissy) and past that I am more than capable of handling myself if the need arises. I think this is more a situation of lazy cops than discrimination based someone being gay, I have had experience with lazy cops when I lived in Florida and had someone breaking in, it took them 25 mins to get to my house ( I lived 5 mins from the police station) I had already taken care of the situation by the time they arrived and basically told them that it was pointless for them to show up so late after the fact.

OP, you've said:

All 6 are doing it in the morning.

And you've also stated:

Not effeminate in any way. Just was out numbered.

This seems contradictory. How exactly could 6 - 1 odds be considered "outnumbered" in your situation?



At the same time, if you are too unmoved to take matters into your own hands when the authorities fail, how are you any better than them? What exactly are you hoping for? If you're sitting on your hands wishing that the police force will magically have a reformation over night, and suddenly there will be no more lazy / racist cops - then you're truly no better than the lazy, racist cops who don't do anything either.

You cannot expect a revolution to come from "the powers that be". If the common man is not complaining, than these powers find no reason to alter their approach. Make a noise if there's something wrong. And if you're afraid to do a little jail time for a cause you believe in, then how much do you really care about what's happening?

Nothing changes if you don't make an effort to enact the change yourself.



And, if you'd learn something about knife fighting, you could probably determine the effectiveness of the knife-wielder. Particularly in how he holds the knife. If he's "doing it wrong" then disarming him is as simple as proper forearm placement so his knife swipes cannot get you.

And, if by some strange anti-grace of an anti-god he did know how to wield a knife, six people circling him would mean he could only focus on one of you at a time (the one facing him), leaving 5 unobstructed individuals to take him down safely.



There's no conspiracy in the police force. Just unenlightened cops who don't know they're not doing their jobs properly; because no one suffering at their lack of participation is telling them this. Go to the station and let the people there know that the cops across from you, and the dispatcher you were talking to were both being neglectful of citizens in need of assistance.

Oh, and if there's a squad of several cops across the street, you know what helps? Yelling "HELP!" and running up to them. They're just everyday citizens, and normal humans too. They respond to people who talk directly to them.

~ Wandering Scribe

Originally posted by Nutter

Let the police eat their donuts, while you keep yourself out of compromising positions.

Then what the hell good are the police for?

[edit on 23-4-2010 by Nutter]

Keeping the doughnut industry alive? IDK lol.

Anyways good thread.

I think there are some good points made here.

But I really think the cops should take action against VIOLENT criminals and TAKE out the TRASH for once.

Originally posted by Nutter
I guess my ire stems back to my incident last August.

I was gay bashed (pretty bad....broken nose, almost broken jaw, still have nerve damage in my chin and left hand).

I can understand.

Sorry friend. Although I am not gay or anything, I think it is wrong for any human being to inflict harm on other humans in such a way.

No matter why.

It's violent crime, and it has no place in society.
This is one of society's greatest issues.

I suggest you should get involved in martial arts to protect yourself. And carry legal self defense.

Everyone should actually. Gay straight male female, everyone.

Sorry just had to stop by and say a few things.

1. You do know there are gay cops right? So to ASSUME that all cops are straight and they simply ignore you for being gay is biased and WAY off base.

2. You original story says you chased the "suspect" for 15 minutes, and then in the same sentence state he was GONE by then, yet are mad at the cops you come across buying donuts? Sorry but either you aren't good and putting factual events into word form, or something about your story is BS. Your on the phone with dispatch RUNNING after a guy for 15 minutes who is armed with atleast 2 knives (according to you), telling them what is happening. Then you say you ran him off (this is where you say he is gone by now). Then you see cops at the 7-11 and complain they do nothing. What is there to do other then an incident report and maybe take a warrant for the guy, or have you do the paperwork for a warrant, depending on DC laws? You said the guy was not on scene, YOU RAN HIM OFF....again, logic is NOT jiving here...so something is fishy or just poorly explained.

Lastly...whatever backlash your getting from people for being gay is NOT the fault of the police. We have ZERO control over what people think of your choices....I personally think you wanted to start a cop bitching session to gain sympathy, OR, your just pissed off and focusing your ander on those who really have nothing to do with your problems.....IMO of course.

EDIT TO ADD: By the way...the average time of a call from complainant to call taker, to dispatcher, then to a beat unit varies between 2 and 12 minutes depending on how clearly the complainant talks, what the calls about, what the risk factors are, etc....so my guess is your call never got dispatched because they were as confused hearing you as I wa reading your story.

[edit on 4/25/2010 by rcwj1975]

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
OP, you've said:

All 6 are doing it in the morning.

And you've also stated:

Not effeminate in any way. Just was out numbered.

This seems contradictory. How exactly could 6 - 1 odds be considered "outnumbered" in your situation?

I am talking about two different incidents. The 6 to 1 was the knife weilding individual incident and the time I was outnumbered was back in August when gay bashed.

I hope that cleared it up.

reply to post by rcwj1975


OK. It does seem a little bit confusing.

When he weilded the knife again it was 1/2 block away from the bar. While chasing him he backtracked and headed towards the bar vicinity but back a back alley. That is when we lost him and also when the squad car pulled up to 7/11. After they pulled away, we figured the same as you that all they could do was file an incident report anyway, we decided to do it with clearer heads. They (dispatch) already knew a suspect fitting that description was in the vicinity.

I have already stated that it is quite possible that dispatch didn't dispatch the incident in enough time for the squad car to receive it.





[edit on 26-4-2010 by Nutter]

reply to post by Nutter


you define yourself as "gay" and so you see proof that "gay people are 2nd class citizens". in fact, all you have is proof that cops are usually too busy drinking coffee and choking down donuts to tackle a crime in progress.

stereotypes don't become stereotypes by being wildly inaccurate.

Another example just tonight. I have a broken wrist. Someone at the bar tonight took my arm and twisted it purposely. I asked a cop in 7/11 what was the next step. Only to be berated and he actually said to me " maybe you shouldn't go to the bar", not in any way helpful. And then he proceeded to say to me that I would be arrested for drunkin plublic if I didn't stop asking him. I have at least 3 witnesses to this. AND CCTV footage.

What do I do now? When the cops won't even help?

And no...I didn't give this guy and/or the cop any reason to be such dicks to me. It is on CCTV......which is the best thing cause I was able to walk out of 7/11 with no record because the dick cop had nothing on me. While I was yelling "I'm glad those donuts are safe" BTW, this is wayyyyyyy after he already started to berate me......I'm not taking sh*t from a policeman who has an 80 IQ anymore.

Can anyone give me a reason WHY I was treated this way by the cops tonight other than they just don't give a SH*T?