Obama slams Arizona immigration bill

I have a question. This bill targets anyone who appears to be an illegal alien, right?

This bill has nothing to do with trampling rights or race or any of that, apparently.

On what basis is someone going to be stopped and asked for proof of citizenship or legality?

reply to post by K J Gunderson


Traffic stops, domestic disputes, any other reason one would be arrested? Before the police would most likely tell someone was illegal, but did not have the authority to enforce it.

Does not matter if this law is unconstitutional, if it forces people to constantly defend their birth rights based on colour, so long as the president opposes it, everybody else is fine and dandy. This was the point of this thread part, to justify the bill on the basis that Obama opposes it. Its just pathetic to what length people will go for the sake of partisanship.

It is election time after all and just like clockwork the tea party and Palin crowd follow in line. Gotta give it to the Republicans, they got it easy to wheel in the conservatives, even when its competely hypocritical.

Originally posted by K J Gunderson
I have a question. This bill targets anyone who appears to be an illegal alien, right?

This bill has nothing to do with trampling rights or race or any of that, apparently.

On what basis is someone going to be stopped and asked for proof of citizenship or legality?

Well that seems to be the issue here since it give the right of 240 policemen the ability to ask you for ID to prove you are an American. Without that there are privacy laws that prevent them from doing that, but having that right now is seen as a broad infringement of freedom, plus since the vast majority of illegals are Mexicans it is also seen as racial profiling.

So in the end it all rests now in the hands of the police as to whether they abuse this law or not without a law telling them what not to do.

Originally posted by K J Gunderson
On what basis is someone going to be stopped and asked for proof of citizenship or legality?

Police could receive tips via hotline
or probable cause of drug activity
in known neighborhoods. people
riding around in cars with foreign
flags flapping in the wind.

There tons of basis

reply to post by Southern Guardian


The only problem I see with the bill is how it forces police to look into illegals instead of the businesses hiring them. Obama has a problem with the bill because he supports the cheap labor for the corporations. Or for the blind followers of the messiah, he supports the rights of illegals lol. AZ is at least doing something, and that something is more than the idiots in DC will do. Also please refrain from labeling us all as conservative tea partiers. There are many people from all over the U.S. from all parties/beliefs that support this kind of thing. These illegals are bankrupting us ya know.

reply to post by boondock-saint

people riding around in cars with foreign flags flapping in the wind.

I have an Irish flag on my car!

I don't believe tip lines are at all a good idea.. or random checkpoints of any kind.. simply, if you're implicated in a crime, the police should have the right to detain and put you in line for deportation.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
I have an Irish flag on my car!

lol

well u can see what red flags that raises (pun intended) lol

just show ur birth certificate and all will be well.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

this whole thing could have been avoided
if the Governor had of contacted me about
being her advisor before signing this law.

I would have told her this ::::

Make a change to the law required for getting
a driver's license.

Have 1 extra category added to the AZ driver's license
that reads NAT which stands for Nationality. Then underneath
it it could read USA for US Citizen or MEX for Mexican, etc....
By having this on the drivers license it eliminates the need
for anyone to carry around an extra piece of paper as
it's already on your drivers license whether u r a citizen
or not. And a drivers license is required for driving so
most carry it with them everywhere they go.

Now make it mandatory when you go get your drivers
license to show nationality at THAT time instead of making
the Cops do the determination during an intense setting.
This would be the setting to show your birth certificate.

This would have been best in my opinion.
But the Governor didnt seek my council

Originally posted by ventian
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

The only problem I see with the bill is how it forces police to look into illegals instead of the businesses hiring them.

Oh yes yes yes because good knows all hispanics are illegals right? Obviously you like the others here blatantly ignore the issue with the bill and continue to insist 'the illegals the illegals!'. This is not about forcing police to look into illegals, this is about born americans of hispanic decent having to carry all sorts of papers around constantly defend their birth rights over their appearances. Thats the problem.

The exact same logic can be turned around to the argument of guns. 95% of all gun violence are by gun owners so there for police have the right to continously ask gun owners for birth certifcates and papers. Oh the outrage that would to folks like you. Same logic, different situation and I'd bet my bottom dollar a different attitude from you over the matter.

Obama has a problem with the bill

So essentially this is your excuse. Anybody who opposes the bill supports illegals working here? Right? You will just lump everybody all in the same without listening to the actual argument? We are talking about american born hispanics being discrimminated under this bill, having to prove their innocence time after time, day after day. Thats the problem, why dont you listen to the arguments?


[edit on 24-4-2010 by Southern Guardian]

China, North Korea, Philipines, and other countries with over population problems.

SEND US YOUR MILLIONS.

Let us get this crap over with. Time to destroy the US by the stupidity of its own government.

C'mon, send us about 50 million China, we can give them free #. We can absorb their criminal activities.

The way to destroy the US is by the very way we are allowing it to happen. So Mexico, send us all of your people, we will take them.

Time to get this party started!

reply to post by Southern Guardian


But..... the majority of the Illegals ARE Hispanic... so .. it seem likely that targeting Hispanics is going to be the case anyways.. if more Hispanics than whites asians or blacks are deported, someone somewhere will scream racism.

Hyper Progressives like yourself have no problem with letting 20+ million people live here illegally.. you'd prefer the border be done with entirely.. and you'd refuse to allow the Governments to enforce immigration laws because "someones feelings might get hurt".. Cowards without a real argument pull the race card.. they hide behind it because they know they are in the wrong.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

But..... the majority of the Illegals ARE Hispanic...

The majority of hispanics are NOT illegals. The majority of natural born americans are NOT illegals. Why should an american born hispanic or an hispanic who has worked hard to be legally here have to defend his citizenship day in and out? He or she must carry freaking birth certificates everywhere they go having to be constantly stopped. Its the same logic as guns. Most murders happen with guns so why dont we hound all gun owners over their papers without any reason??

This will not solve the problem, it will only further divide and infringe
on the 5th ammendment rights. The solution is to focus on moving troops to the borders, on targeting the businesses that hire illegals. Turning on fellow americans will not do any good and I can assure you this bill will backfire.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

Traffic stops, domestic disputes, any other reason one would be arrested? Before the police would most likely tell someone was illegal, but did not have the authority to enforce it.

So this bill only targets people that are already being stopped for some other suspected infraction?

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by K J Gunderson
I have a question. This bill targets anyone who appears to be an illegal alien, right?

This bill has nothing to do with trampling rights or race or any of that, apparently.

On what basis is someone going to be stopped and asked for proof of citizenship or legality?

Well that seems to be the issue here since it give the right of 240 policemen the ability to ask you for ID to prove you are an American. Without that there are privacy laws that prevent them from doing that, but having that right now is seen as a broad infringement of freedom, plus since the vast majority of illegals are Mexicans it is also seen as racial profiling.

So in the end it all rests now in the hands of the police as to whether they abuse this law or not without a law telling them what not to do.

That really does not answer my question. I am not asking how each officer will personally implement this. I am asking how it is stated within the law itself. Just how exactly is the suspicion upon which detaining and questioning a suspected illegal supposed to be determined.

There are no laws on the books that say "Go stop bad guys." They kind of get specific. So I am asking how this is defined. Who is targeted under this law as someone to be stopped and questioned.

I see people saying it is only after some other reason to stop them but why is that not what I am lead to believe?

Originally posted by boondock-saint
Police could receive tips via hotline
or probable cause of drug activity
in known neighborhoods.

That could happen before. If someone called the cops and reported illegals, they could investigate. If someone called the cops and reported suspicious behaving of drug activity in known neighborhoods, the police could investigate. Those are things all easily done under the law already and have nothing to do with this new bill.

people
riding around in cars with foreign
flags flapping in the wind.

That is a fair reason? Foreign flags? The only flags I see on cars around here are African and believe it or not - very little illegal african immigrant problem here. That does not seem like a good reason to pull someone over but ok.

Do illegal immigrants usually drive around with flags on their cars advertising it? Not sure, I am really asking.
If that were the deal, then won't they just stop, thus eliminating that?

Then what?

There tons of basis

The reason I ask is because you say "tons" but you only gave me one that even kind of works and that one is still bad at best. Any more?

Obama had to say something.....he made all of those promises to the hispanic reps to get health care votes. Other than the obviousness of big business not agreeing with this, Mr. Obama has to shore up the hispanic votes that the Dems are going to so desperately need in the up coming elections. It seems funny to me that the federal government is more worried about the rights of illegals, rather than the rights of its own citizens. To those wishing that the state of Arizona goes bankrupt etc, it shows where your loyalties are, and they aren't with the United States of America.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by TheCoffinman

 

Excellent thread there Coffinman ..my fiance is a nurse in an emergency room and tells me first hand the problems with illegals who cant speak English clogging the ER with coughs and slight fevers seeking medication even as simple as advil, while consuming a room that could be given to a sick child or emergency.

Hell, if we kicked them out of the country, we wouldn't need this drastic overhaul of the healthcare system (which the Feds claim no illegal will benefit from - my ass they wont)

I hear all that. I am forced to spent a great deal of time in the hospital ER, for I have a very bad lower back and neck, and often a pain shot is necessary for relief. I have seen this first hand, and saw the frustration on the medico's faces at these non English speaking people who crowd in, sometimes 20 at a time, and want meds they can buy in any drug store, or a band-aid for a small cut that I would ignore. I have seen Mexican men sit in the chairs, while pregnant women have to stand. I myself have had to sit on the floor, requiring a hand up when they call me. None have any kind of insurance, none have any money. Our hospital is not for profit, and the illegals are running it out of business. If this behavior continues, we had all better learn Spanish, and forget about getting medical help. These people are dragging America down a Third world part with no end in sight, and the Congress will not do anything to stop it. They drive around with no car insurance, cannot speak English, and then cry Constitutional Rights and Racial Profiling when we complain about it.

I say drive them back across the river in mass. This is an invasion, folks, whether you like it or not. Cheap labor? How about no jobs for anyone, and no medical care either, and road signs you cannot read? This does not sit well with me, as you can tell, and I do not care whose toes I step on here. I have been down there and have seen it first hand.
Racist? No way. American? To the bone.

ugh CNN is in full "pro-illegal" mode... "we couldnt find that many people who supported the bill but we did find a couple" one was some old man whose running for senate apparently and another was a woman who said something i forget what that made her look stupid. and thats all they showed. two quick sound bites... they obviously didnt look hard enough

Of those surveyed, 70 percent said they favored it, 23 percent said they opposed it, and 6 percent said they were unsure.

www.democraticunderground.com...

holy sh** CNN... sure are driving that illegal agenda arent you.... race card, race card, race card, race card, race card.... well guess what CNN..

immigrationcounters.com...
22,751,368 illegals are from mexico...
578,883 illegals are not....

arizona has the most pourous border of all southwestern states... as ive said, 99% of illegals in arizona are going to be MEXICAN!! that is fact, not racial profiling... why is it when americans try to voice theyre opinons and fix an issue about anything the government isnt willing to do , the media flat out calls them racists or extremists???

MSM propaganda agenda driven lying horsesh**

[edit on 24-4-2010 by TheCoffinman]

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by Captain_Sense

 

Please tell me Captain "sense"....what papers do you have that prove you are currently a legal citizen???

What document says that from date A to date B you are a current legal citizen.

Birth certificate doesn't really mean much...it means you were born a citizen...what if you renounced your citizenship???

DL means nothing nor does SSN for the same reason.

Please, Captain_Sense, allow me? BTW, you do make a great deal of sense. Now to the point for this seemingly illegal trying to make a case for amnesty.

I live in Ohio. You say a driver's license is not a legal and good ID, OutKast Searcher?
Check the Ohio law on this.

Driver License Rules & Regulations
Ohio Administrative Code Section 4501:1-1-19, 21, 22

In order to obtain any Ohio Temporary Instruction Permit Card (TIPIC), Driver License, Commercial Driver License, State of Ohio Identification (ID) card, Motorcycle, Moped license, the customer must present documents to prove all of the following five elements: (1) legal first name, middle name, OR middle initial, and current last name; (2) date of birth; (3) Social Security Number (SSN), if ever assigned; (4) U.S. citizenship OR U.S. legal presence; and (5) resident street address in Ohio.

To obtain a duplicate of any of the above, the applicant must sign a statement that the original was lost or stolen, present one primary OR one secondary document, match the photograph on file and all five elements in the BMV system. If any of the five elements do not match the BMV system, the applicant must present an acceptable document to prove the mismatched element.

An Ohio TIPIC, driver license, CDL, ID card, motorcycle or moped license either current or expired for less than six months is sufficient proof of all elements for any BMV transaction (including co-signers) and no further proof is necessary.

Only original documents or a copy bearing an original certification by the issuing authority are acceptable. Uncertified copies or copies of certified documents are not acceptable. Failure to provide two acceptable identification documents and proof of residency in Ohio shall result in the denial of the application.

(Bold Text Mine) bmv.ohio.gov...
Ohio.Gov

I call you attention to section (4): "U.S. citizenship OR U.S. legal presence." Legal Presence. That mean anything to you? Now, check this:

Ohio Set to Revoke Illegal-Alien Vehicle Registrations

In October, the Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles informed over 47,000 vehicle owners that their registrations would be canceled unless they provide a valid Ohio driver license or identification card or proof of a Social Security number. The Bureau is attempting to close a loophole that allowed illegal aliens to register vehicles without valid documentation. Those notified have until December 8 to show proper documentation or risk having their license plates flagged as invalid in police computers.

The loophole in question enabled illegal aliens without driver's licenses and insurance to use legal U.S. residents known as "runners" to register vehicles on their behalf with power-of-attorney forms. These forms did not require proof of the identity of vehicle owners, so the State is now attempting verification. Bureau spokeswoman Lindsay Komlanc said "What we are actually doing through this policy is verifying in our system to be sure people are who they say they are."

source

This is not racial profiling, this is enforcement of existing law. Ohio does not wish to be over run by illegals or have them illegally driving on our highways. Is this wrong on Ohio's part, in your opinion, OutKast Searcher, or are you going to come here wrapped in the Mexican flag shouting that the Constitution protects you? Want to debunk me on this?

Originally posted by endisnighe
China, North Korea, Philipines, and other countries with over population problems.

SEND US YOUR MILLIONS.

Let us get this crap over with. Time to destroy the US by the stupidity of its own government.

C'mon, send us about 50 million China, we can give them free #. We can absorb their criminal activities.

The way to destroy the US is by the very way we are allowing it to happen. So Mexico, send us all of your people, we will take them.

Time to get this party started!

Not going to happen. I have an email friend who lives in China. They think America is pretty messed up, and he tell me we should drive the illegals back across the river at gunpoint. He also tell me to send them all to China, and see what happens. There would be a rude awakening. My friend is Canadian by birth, and he had to prove citizenship, learn the language, and prove beyond doubt he had something that would add to the workforce and culture. (He is an IT Professional) The Chinese do not want America, they already own it, do you see then here?