'Anonymous' hacks Revolution Muslim for South Park Fattwa!!

Originally posted by 517.101
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

No, if ATS is about denying ignorance, then why even post here to you.

How is it not ignorant, to not respect another religion, culture, or race not of your own.

In some cultures paedophilia is acceptable, should i be respectful of that as well? I can respect someones culture if it does not harm anyone, that is my line. At the same time i have every right to make fun of whatever i wish and if that were not the case then comedians would be out of work.

You know i can respect a Muslim individuals right to believe as he/she wishes, at the same time i would hope they respect my right to believe their religion is nonsense. Freedom is a two way street, you can't dictate it. The line only comes when violence comes into the equation.

Originally posted by 517.101
I.ve had the same position through the whole thread, and i'm no fan of south park or revolutionmuslim.

Well done sticking to your position, however you are betraying free speech. I am holding true to my position in supporting free speech.

Originally posted by 517.101
Why wouldn't you be denied?

I'm afraid i don't understand this last sentence.

reply to post by 517.101


The subject of the thread is 'Anonymous hacks RevolutionMuslim for South Park fatwa'. If you read that post to the end, you'll find I've only been responding to your comments as best I can, while trying to direct your comments back to the topic.

Sadly, I've been unable to do so, so far.

Still no response to the issues I have raised concerning that subject. Or any other, for that matter. Likewise, no response from you concerning the philosphical paradox of allowing Islam free expression, and denying others the same free expression, which others have questioned you about.

I begin to think that you may not be able to respond to them, and are just here to vent Islamic displeasure.

Originally posted by YehudasTheEnabler
did the people who did this think about there actions?this will only reinforce there beliefs.do you think it was done by a southpark fan?i think in the light of what has happened it probably was.seems like being a muslim is an easy target for jokes and such now after 9/11 happened,sorry to me it seems like most of the things they say about the west is true.whilst i am not a muslim i do respect there religion as i do every other whether or not i agree with what there saying.
it will be interesting to hear peoples views on this.

You're playing right into the fear here. Think about it.

[edit on 24-4-2010 by Logarock]

reply to post by nenothtu


I';m beginning to think you are here to claim this as your thread.

Originally posted by 517.101
reply to post by nenothtu

 

I';m beginning to think you are here to claim this as your thread.

OK then, I'm done trying to discuss an important issue with you. Review your own post history in this thread, and inform yourself as to just which one of us asked the off the wall questions about Jesus' prayer methods, etc, and which one was responding, and trying to drag the discussion back on track.

Once you've done that, and if you manage to formulate responses to the questions I've posed on the issues at hand, I'd be happy to continue the free interchange of ideas.

If you can't do that, I'm done with this conversation.

As-salaam alaykum.

Originally posted by 517.101
reply to post by nenothtu

 

I';m beginning to think you are here to claim this as your thread.

This is getting ridiculous. You continually avoid answering questions, you continually throw out little attacks like this, you continually ignore points that others make. There are several people in this thread who have read your posts and have responded with long, well thought out replies.

You talk of respect and yet you don't have the respect to type a decent response.

[edit on 24-4-2010 by ImaginaryReality1984]

reply to post by oozyism

Wait, wait, let me get this straight.. You think, a freaken episode, which will be viewed by Millions, including Muslims, and you are saying that is not attracting an attack? Are you saying South Park is not inciting an attack on themselves?

Even after you waited you still didn’t get it straight, a freaken TV episode can be easily NOT watched by any religious person if they choose, they all have the power within to NOT watch south park with the click of a button, its that simple, and yes I am saying that South Park are NOT wanting an attack on themselves, who would want that??

So it was South Park who originally created an episode which would incite an attack on them, but in your little world, with your little logic, Muslim Revolution is to blame..

So why would an attack come from a simple cartoon poking fun at any religion?? If it does it seems a bit extremist to me, Oh wait it has already happened to some dude who penned up another simple cartoon.

My little world and my little logic doesn’t incorporate any religion what-so-ever, I actually find all religion quiet offensive, however I treat everyone as equals and I class all religions as equal. But when people are threatened with violence for creating humor I feel pity for them more than anything else.

Common, for those individuals who are going to tell Muslims not to watch, here is a message for you... Muslims have more right in viewing this episode of South Park than you, because it is their damn business, because it is about them...

HA HA HA, It’s a cartoon, no-one has more right than anyone else to watch a cartoon. I notice your quiet aggressive in your post and can see the connection between you and a website inciting violence, Muslim or not, take a chill pill and laugh once in a while.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

the question should really be, should anyone be fearful of attack for voicing an opinion in a non violent manner?

Very well thought out sentence.. "Voicing an opinion in a non-violence manner?" What does that mean? What about an opinion which says "I believe the South Park creator should be killed"..

Free speech is not something that should be hindered by the threat of violence. If you want to argue that point then i can easily threaten several kinds of people i don't like with violence and by your logic it would be their fault for continuing in their actions if i go and kill them.

I agree with free speech to a point, but I also agree with those individuals who get insulted.. It is not just violence which can hurt an individual, but also words.. Infact I, myself would rather get hurt physically rather than emotionally, because emotional scars lasts longer..

Words do hurt people, don't forget..

Let me make this simple for you, see drunk people, what is wrong with drunk people? Why do they always end up in a fight? Is it words? Do words really matter? If you talk to a drunk individual in the right manner he/she will make your day..

When you degrade the value of words, you push for no boundaries.. Without boundaries you're screwed.

"Words can topple mountains."

Of course they can watch it, but if they do and are offended they should not be allowed to threaten violence as that is not covered by free speech. How pathetic is a religion that threatens violence against others while claiming to be a source of peace for millions?

"no covered by free speech." What does that mean lol

See not everyone is the same, we can agree on that.. Now can we agree on the fact that there are people who would pursue violence if insulted?

Can we agree that these types of individuals exist everywhere within the Western world.. Hence you go to someone and say "# You", "# Your Mom", "# (insert religion name)", "# (insert GOD name)"... Can you expect that individual to punch in the face? If you are such a supported of free speech I would like you to demonstrate to us your belief.. Go to a market with a camera, start swearing at an individual you don't even know, show us your outcome..

So if a guy swears at me does it give me the right to punch him in the face? After all he incited that violent act. If a person wears a pink scarf and i really hate pinks scaves then do i have a right to behead him? If someone espouses a certain political view at the same table as i am sitting when i have already said i hate such a view, am i in my right to beat him to death? This is the logical extension of your argument and shows it's utter weakness.

No we are not talking about rights here, we were never talking about rights, we are talking about understanding..

If someone tells you that their grandma recently died and you keep swearing at his grandma, what would you expect?


I would expect that guy to punch you in the face, I would expect that, I wouldn't wish for him to do that.. And just because it is common in my area, I would jump in and punch you once is well just to show my anger in regards to your comments..

Should a society run based on these principles? No, not at all, but a society should understand..

South Park were voicing their view and that is perfectly legal and morally acceptable in any society that values freedom. If the Muslim website had protested without the mention of violence then i would happily support them as that is their right. To hint at violence however is a bullying and disgusting tactic.

umm So when the Muslim website basically reported what would happen, they are not safe based on your values.

The South Park episode spreads hate against Muslims, violent hate, and verbal hate, and based on your values they should be protected.

Nice one, you have very wonderful understanding of the world.. By the way Bullying can also be verbal.. Only people who have been Bullied can understand that..

Here in New Zealand, suicide, after suicide, after suicide had to occur in public schools for the official to finally recognize verbal bullying..


[edit on 24-4-2010 by oozyism]

reply to post by deenuu

Even after you waited you still didn’t get it straight, a freaken TV episode can be easily NOT watched by any religious person if they choose, they all have the power within to NOT watch south park with the click of a button, its that simple,

...

How did I know you would say such a mumo jumbo.. I infact predicted "a freaken TV episode can be easily NOT watched by any religious person if they choose":

WOW:

Common, for those individuals who are going to tell Muslims not to watch, here is a message for you... Muslims have more right in viewing this episode of South Park than you, because it is their damn business, because it is about them...

and yes I am saying that South Park are NOT wanting an attack on themselves, who would want that??

If you are stupid enough to believe that, than yes you are stupid enough to believe South Park didn't know about previous incidents lol, and how these incidents bring fame to these out of touch, get high, programs..

Oh wait it has already happened to some dude who penned up another simple cartoon.

So here is how it goes, I will make a dummies guide for you..

1. Adam puts his finger on fire.
2. Adam burns his finger.

3. Joe knows Adam put his finger on fire, and also knows he got burned.
4. Joe puts his finger on fire.
5. Joe burns.
6. Joe says: "I didn't know it was gonna burn".
5. oozyism said: "I told you and you hacked my website".

HA HA HA, It’s a cartoon, no-one has more right than anyone else to watch a cartoon. I notice your quiet aggressive in your post and can see the connection between you and a website inciting violence, Muslim or not, take a chill pill and laugh once in a while.

Actually if you made a cartoon about me, I would have more right to watch it, wouldn't I?

Aggressive? You don't know what aggressive is I'm afraid.. Did you see the RANT...RANT...RANT.. part of my post?

And just in-case you are desperate enough to 4.5.6.5, just an advice, don't

reply to post by oozyism


It is people like you who cause all the useless mess in the world, you are so worried about what OTHER people say and do and you forget that it really doesent matter in your own life. Mind your own business, I find South Park very funny and infact I laugh the hardest when they pay-out any religious figure. This whole "I have more right than you" is a load of crap, when you boil it down all South park is, is an artistic expression if you dont like it DONT WATCH, and VIOLENCE is never acceptable. Im done with you...


[edit on 24-4-2010 by deenuu]

Originally posted by oozyism

No we are not talking about rights here, we were never talking about rights, we are talking about understanding..

and...

The South Park episode spreads hate against Muslims, violent hate, and verbal hate, and at the same time

Oozyism,

I'll leave the rest for a response from your target, but these two notions were just too much for me, and seem to require response.

We ARE talking about rights here, the right to free speech, as guaranteed in the First Amendment of the Bill of Rights. That documnet has jurisdiction in this matter, as South Park is produced in America, and I believe the website in question is also in America, in New York.

That right in America is guaranteed, political expression free from intimidation by threat of violence, or actual violent reprisals themselves.

'Understanding' may be a secondary issue, since it appears that some muslims don't understand the concept of 'satire'.

The South Park episodes absolutely do NOT "spread hate against Muslims, violent hate, and verbal hate, " in any fashion. Your misconception may be an example of that lack of understanding I speak of. They are a stament more about American society and it's fearful willingness to cave in to threats of violence and intimidation from a segment of society, extremist muslims to be specific.

Or are you saying that the mere mention of the name 'Mohammed' by a kaffr is hate? As for the alleged pictorial representation of Mohammed, I've seen more, and more explicit, representations in Islamic sources.

They didn't even bother to disguise him, and several appear as if his head is on fire.

How's that for banned pictorial representations?

Originally posted by oozyism
Very well thought out sentence.. "Voicing an opinion in a non-violence manner?" What does that mean? What about an opinion which says "I believe the South Park creator should be killed"..

A non violent manner would also lack an incite to be vioent so your sentence would be considered violent as you are calling for someone to be harmed.

Originally posted by oozyism
I agree with free speech to a point, but I also agree with those individuals who get insulted.. It is not just violence which can hurt an individual, but also words.. Infact I, myself would rather get hurt physically rather than emotionally, because emotional scars lasts longer..

Words do hurt people, don't forget..

Words do hurt people indeed, but most adults learn to get over such things. I've been offended by a number of things but i don't go and threaten violence to someone because of it. Free speech remember actually covers the right to offend. If it did not then comedy would be a dead art. Have you seen the comedians making the jokes about catholic priests? Would you also stop them doing that? And where are the death threats from Hindu's? Krishna was snorting coke for gods sake!

Originally posted by oozyism
Let me make this simple for you, see drunk people, what is wrong with drunk people? Why do they always end up in a fight? Is it words? Do words really matter? If you talk to a drunk individual in the right manner he/she will make your day..

Yes because that drunk person is no longer in control of their emotions due to the ffects of alcohol. How does that compare to this situation? On the one hand you have a drunk with a drug messing up their ability to control their actions and on the other hand you have a sober individual who is rather angry and methodically plans the death of another.

Originally posted by oozyism
When you degrade the value of words, you push for no boundaries.. Without boundaries you're screwed.

There should be boundaries and those are easy to define. You can say and do whatever you like as long as you don't hurt anyone, or call for anyone to be harmed.

Originally posted by oozyism
"no covered by free speech." What does that mean lol

I'm not sure why you chose to snip that quot out of the whole paragraph, quote mining maybe? In context it was quite clear but i'll retype it.

Calls for violence are not covered under free speech because it can/does result in harm to another. Was that really hard to understand?

Originally posted by oozyism
See not everyone is the same, we can agree on that.. Now can we agree on the fact that there are people who would pursue violence if insulted?

I agree fully that there are people who will pursue violence if insulted. However i fail to see your point. Just because people exist who will be violent when insulted, does that mean we must all make sure to not voice any opinion that could be considered insulting in case it causes a violent incident? If so then the world would be full of people who were mute.

Originally posted by oozyism
Can we agree that these types of individuals exist everywhere within the Western world.. Hence you go to someone and say "# You", "# Your Mom", "# (insert religion name)", "# (insert GOD name)"... Can you expect that individual to punch in the face? If you are such a supported of free speech I would like you to demonstrate to us your belief.. Go to a market with a camera, start swearing at an individual you don't even know, show us your outcome..

I am sure i would get hit, however that does not make the person that hits me in the right. They should just shrug such a thing off, as i have done in such situations. Now if i screamed it directly in their face they have a right to hit me as it could easily be considered threatening behavior and they were fearful for their safety.

Basically your entire premise is flawed

Originally posted by oozyism
No we are not talking about rights here, we were never talking about rights, we are talking about understanding..

Err actually we are talking about rights, the right to free speech so pelase don't try and twist the discussion so it better fits your argument, thank you.

Originally posted by oozyism
If someone tells you that their grandma recently died and you keep swearing at his grandma, what would you expect?

I would expect him to hit me, he would then be arrested and i may also be arrested. It would go to court and a jury would decide the outcome. No doubt a jury would think i deserved it. If however that same man killed me then i am willing to bet he'd be in prison. See the difference?

Originally posted by oozyism
I would expect that guy to punch you in the face, I would expect that, I wouldn't wish for him to do that.. And just because it is common in my area, I would jump in and punch you once is well just to show my anger in regards to your comments..

That makes you a rather violent individual. I have been in a few violent incidents but only when someone directly attacked me or a friend. That's what it should take for violence to occur, a direct, threatening action.

However we are not simply talking about a beating are we, we are talking about death threats. There is a rahter large level of difference.

Originally posted by oozyism

umm So when the Muslim website basically reported what would happen, they are not safe your values.

No because they were using a veiled threat of violence and as i already stated this is not covered by free speech. It's like if i say to a police officer "yeah someones goign to break your legs", i will be arrested pretty damn quickly, and rightfully so.

Originally posted by oozyism
The South Park episode spreads hate against Muslims, violent hate, and verbal hate, and at the same time

Oddly i didn't see hate, just mocking humour. You can mock someone and love them, you can mock someone and hate them and you can mock someone and be indifferent to them. You saw hate, i saw humour for the sake of humour.

Originally posted by oozyism
Nice one, you have very wonderful understanding of the world.. By the way Bullying can also be verbal.. Only people who have been Bullied can understand that..

I was bullied, granted i knocked that bully on his backside, but only when he laid a hand on me, see how that works? Words can hurt but adults tend to grow out of such things. Also this is very different to direct abuse of an individual (bullying) and insulting an organisation.

Originally posted by oozyism
Here in New Zealand, suicide, after suicide, after suicide had to occur in public schools for the official to finally recognize verbal bullying..

Again there is a real difference between insulting an individual and an organisation. People insult McDonalds all the time, you don't see them talking of being bullied. If you don't like that example then consider the other gods which were represented in that south park episode.

Krishna snorting coke and yet hardly a peep from the Hindu's.

Buddha being called names and yet nothing from the buddhists.

Jesus in several episodes was really insulted and yet very little outrage from Christians.

An entire episode was devotd to mocking the Mormon church and calling Joseph Smith, their founder and prophet a con man and yet the response was a rather quiet one.

So why exactly are muslims a special case again? Oh yeah they threaten people.

reply to post by deenuu


I was hoping you would give me a response along the lines of:

"If you are stupid enough to not be able to count to seven:

1. Adam puts his finger on fire.
2. Adam burns his finger.

3. Joe knows Adam put his finger on fire, and also knows he got burned.
4. Joe puts his finger on fire.
5. Joe burns.
6. Joe says: "I didn't know it was gonna burn".
5. oozyism said: "I told you and you hacked my website".

Then you are not worth my time."

Well too bad, learn how to debate, leave some loop holes to play around with..

reply to post by oozyism


Im not petty mate, I dont care about silly mistakes, I hear loud and clear what you are all about, and I think you are part of the problem.

Have a good life....

reply to post by oozyism



nice avatar dude, seems to reflect your views.

reply to post by deenuu

This whole "I have more right than you" is a load of crap

Applause please. Brilliantly said. This seems to be exactly what Islam is saying.

I hope everyone participates.

I have to get to work.

bye

I think I know who killed kenny, wonder what he said????

Thought id better edit in a smiley face, just incase someone takes me too seriously.

[edit on 25-4-2010 by deenuu]

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
Just asking . . . did anyone happen to see the email address when you hover over the contact button?

lol FTW.

thats some funny stuff, thanks for pointing that out lma0!!!

reply to post by 517.101

It's not up to some material biting cartoonistists to question laws of a religion they don't abide by, or believe in.

First and foremost, South Park wasn't questioning Islamic religious laws. The point of the show was to show how stupid and cowardly it is to treat Islam with a kid glove because some loonies may not like it to the point of violence. Who is it up to? Muslims have been understandably pretty quiet on the subject. If I practiced Islam, I would be more critical of the fringe groups promoting violence than some cartoonists trying to prove a valid point.

I guess these south park guys are your new heros' or something?

Trey Parker and Matt Stone have done more speaking truth to power on their animated show than most people could ever dream of in their entire lifetime. Are they heroes? No, but they dislike and call out hypocrites of all shape color and size.... something we all need to do.

Quite simply, you dont respect other religions.

I have no respect for ignorance. Many Muslims are ignorant and shine a bad light on all respectful people of the Muslim faith.

Ignorant to language, religion, and culture not of their own.

I can say with utmost confidence that Trey Parker and Matt Stone know more about Islam than the extremists know of Western culture. does it excuse what they did? Prolly not, but I don't think what they did needs excusing.

How is it not ignorant, to not respect another religion, culture, or race not of your own.

The concept of 'religion' 'culture' and 'race' are just constructs to get people into wars. Spread the hate of an ambiguous 'other' and spread the killing, spread the control. I respect people on a one-by-one basis. I respect no religion, culture, or race for its own sake. No one is a Muslim, Christian, black, white, or brown. They just seem to be in accordance with our self-imposed hatred of other human beings. We love to hate each other and need to put people into subgroups to excuse things like war, genocide, and all around violence.

Whatever people believe, they need to believe in it peacefully. This is the most rational way to believe in anything to begin with. Beliefs, met with violence, just tend to debase the underlying belief itself. If you cannot practice a religion in peace (without any type of coercion whatsoever), maybe one should question the belief itself.

I.ve had the same position through the whole thread, and i'm no fan of south park or revolutionmuslim.

That is a great position to hold. Many people, even with full understanding of it, do not like South Park. That is a valid idea. Yourself aside, I don't like how South Park has gotten so polarizing. If its not your cup-o-tea don't drink it, but don't try to stop others (through government violence or otherwise) from drinking it if they so choose.

The entire point is that South Park wasn't going after Islam, they were going after our culture itself. Comedy Central didn't get the message. This is obvious considering the 35 second long bleep at the end when the entire point was clearly spelled out.

As for Anonymous, they( or we, us, you, me, anybody) aren't a group. They (them, us, you, me) did the hacks as backlash for a sites perceived threats. The threats themselves were merely perceived, but they were implied in the texts themselves.