ATS Deny Ignorance, Well only when we feel like it.

reply to post by TV_Nation
What I find funny is that the people who starred this thread are the verry same people who its about but they will never know.

reply to post by TV_Nation


80 percent [minimum] of people on this deny they have any ignorance.


we all are ignorant, we are searching what what cannot be seen [in some cases just not yet]

christians need to look at other perspectives instead of blindly look away from them.

atheists need to not bash the bible too much because some of it is historical information [while the other bits are completely created by the church in order to push people away from individual thinking, something even they probably didn't think would last as long as it did, maybe the rapes from the church are just celebrations over this idea]

the right needs to understand that the left has a lot more experience when it comes to being against things the government do, come into agreement and revolt for yourchrist's sake.

the left needs to remember the bible is the only evidence in the rights total existence, don't make them angry, they might use their 2nd amendment rights. also don't be wusses, you pathetic scum of prissy hippies.

Oh!...the drama.

The topics on ATS are created by the members. Not by ATS. In that respect ATS is a conduit. Part of the fun of the site is sifting out the wheat from the chaff and, frankly you guys - the members are damned good at doing it.

The staff of the site are not all knowing and all powerful. We're just regular people. We have no more means at our disposal to judge whether a story is correct or not just by looking at it. We, like you, have to research and look into things.

And you know what, we're damned if we do and damned if we don't. If we move a thread because we believe it to be a hoax we get complained at, and if we leave a thread alone and other people think its a hoax we get complained at.

Basically people seem to just like to complain.

Denying ignorance is all about teamwork. So if you think something is false, do the research, present it in the relevant thread and you will be adding to the denial of ignorance, educating your fellow man and boosting your good karma.

I realise that such actions are slightly more difficult than bitching that ATS doesn't live up to its motto, but as Ghandi said "Be the change you wish to see".

Here's the thing...I totally agree with what you are saying but this website is a catch 22...

If it comes from the MSM and it is something we like, then everyone says, "I can't believe the MSM is covering this." So we are all about the MSM and we all won't question that.

BUT if it is a story we don't like or think is suspisious we are all like, "Typical MSM cover story" and we question it.

Then if we get "news" from third party non-MSM source it will always be scrutinized because it isn't a "credible" source... which we would define as an established news source (MSM)

The point is, people are going to listen to what they want to listen too. Doesn't matter the Source, the Evidence, OR the Logic.

This is the 1st thread I've flagged in a long time.

Please consider this. We members of ATS are a coveted group of educated agents of change. Members are considered "opinion makers" by the marketing world.

We are informed, opinionated and influential amongst our peers. We are the kind of people who set revolutions in motion.

Who better to focus disinformation towards than us? Whether you are right or left, Christian or aetheist, remember to consider the source.

Don't let your guard down when you hear something you want to hear. It could be a fabrication. You have been targetted and resources have been alotted to persuade and influence your beliefs.

I never thought I would suppport Obama untill I started seeing who was criticizing him.

I'm not asking you to support him. I'm trying to show how far a self-proclaimed Christian and politcally conservative has come.

I have started reading both sides instead of reading into the side I liked.

there is a simple solution that makes it best for everyone if everyone does indeed follow the guideline

1.post references
2.ask for references if not posted
3. explain why you don't have any, ask for help and put in references when you can

come on people if you want to live in a logical, clear world and not have confusion then at least do unto others as you would gave to yourself. do you really want a world full of disinfo and confusion?

reply to post by Rockstar02


There is no difference between starting a thread to criticize or posting as you just did to criticize. Same exact thing is it not?

reply to post by neformore


Of course you are right, but then free speech is free speech is it not?

Criticizing somebody for making a post criticizing something else is the same.

We all had the choice to ignore this thread or respond. If we respond, we are part of its success in its journey to the front page.

The spreading of unfounded propaganda that could theoretically ignite violence and conflict is a pretty serious subject. Are not most wars in history the result of simple differences of opinion, misunderstandings and propaganda by radicals?

If these threads are going to pop up daily, we may as well embrace them and let free debate occur.

This site is to dwell on rumors, theories and unsubstantiated facts... Why do you think people come here?

We do not come here to read the daily newspaper, which is pretty biased in alot of aspects.

I myself come to ATS to think and dwell upon things that aren't normal, and maybe even paranormal. Who are you (Original poster) to state to me that I should waste my time trying to crack open an iron nut with a wooden spoon.

Id much rather at least think outside the box, instead of always jumping to whats normal and reasonable. No my post is not sarcasm or anything of the like, its word for word my own thoughts. If I wanted to be force fed facts and information, instead of using my own brain to at least think it from a different view to the man with the dollar, and view/newspaper etc then I would just watch TV or read and submit to whats printed and told in my face like a sheeple.

[edit on 23-4-2010 by Aoxoa]

Many years ago I used to have a job, answering sales calls at a busy car dealership.

My job was pretty simple, to expertly extract information from people first as far as what they were looking for, and then to lie convincingly that we had one!

I was actually very good at it.

Now I never dealt directly with the people when they came into view, and purchase the imaginary car, I invented for them on the telephone. This was done in part to minimize any potential confrontation if there was nothing remotely similar to what they were looking for, and it was also done to keep me free, and undisturbed to answer the phones.

Yet invariably, a really frightening amount of the time, the sales people would come up to me and thank me for this customer or that, and I would look at them quite puzzled, because I was relatively sure, we had nothing even close to what I told them we had over the phone. The truth is I paid no attention to what we had. Why let the truth get in the way of a good story?

They would look at me and say; yeah they really loved the car you told them about! I would say, you mean we actually had one? They would look at me puzzled and say, yeah, same year, some make, same color, and same mileage as you told them!

I would just scratch my head, and chuckle.

The moral of this story, even liars, with no sources, end up accidently telling the truth, more often than not!

Everything is worth considering!

hey guys, thanks for all of your replies some of you made some very good points and I appreciate your insight even if you criticized my post.

I just want to say that I do not dislike ATS I just wanted to bring this up to get people thinking. ATS is by far my favorite site on the web and I visit the site daily and will continue to do so.

Like I said in my original post I knew this would not go over well with everyone and I should have been more clear that not everyone took the information on the reference thread as fact.

Basically I think ATS is having the same problem as most mainstream news agencies have the conversations are being reduced to the to the lowest common denominator because of pride or ignorance of of members or to bring new ones into the fold.Remember this sites is supported by ads just like tv.

reply to post by TV_Nation


Looking for facts, corroborating evidence, and people denying ignorance on the internet.....
Where anonymity is king and everyone has a separate online persona

This is entertainment!! I enjoy the hoaxes, the crazy stories, the fiction, the spin, the drama, the humor and the occasional factoid tidbit and the onsite accounts.

What I don't enjoy is the whining!!!



[edit on 23-4-2010 by whaaa]

why do you people think that you have to avoid referenced discussion in order to think about things out of the ordinary?and whats with the fear of referenced discussion? geez! this is a conspiracy site, expect the skepticism, it helps advance thinking.
you don't need to avoid skepticism to think alternative things, in fact we need skepticism so we can discuss these things better.

you guys need to learn what is critical thinking, its not that hard.
people can be entertained by their fantasies all they want but at some point reality kicks in and thats when need people to be intelligent enough to discuss with each other online.

if you don't bother citing a reference then i wont bother listening to your fantasies



[edit on 23-4-2010 by togetherwestand]

I find it quite intriguing that there are "posts complaining about posts" and a swifter uproar everyday of frustration toward lack of progress and substance here on ATS (& throughout the world).

Why? I think it is a sign of micro-evolution (at least, here). Perhaps entering closer into this "5th age" in terms of thinking and thought process.

I can only speak for myself, but I feel as if 'communication' all together is under some sort of heavy altercation and/or transition; as if we are learning to decipher information more clearly, separate fact from fiction faster, tolerate immaturity and nonsense less and less, and ultimately respect our COMMON motive( s ).

(I think we should all (despite controversy and as of yet any clarity) be grateful and admire the fact that ATS users both LOCATED the information about the camera-man supposedly stabbed, located the sources, discredited it as well as suggested many possible outcomes or possibilities within ONE day.) REGARDLESS if it is TRUE or NOT, many situations similar to this WILL likely occur... the foundation and basis of this site, at least to me, is to do exactly what we've been doing.

PS: We can do without the forecasting of future events if only to insult directly or indirectly entire nations, respectively. (*cough*.... Russia) If in future necessary, be specific to who in Russia, for ex. what part of the government etc. as we all should know you do not have 10 OF THE SAME people in a classroom in ANY country, were YOU the same as ANYONE in your classes growing up? HOW can you define an entire COUNTRY of people (millions) by one name accurately?

M.

Plus the only other time your denying ignorance on this site is if you're bashing capitalism or Jews.

Originally posted by groomlake9
reply to post by TV_Nation

 

I too am very suspect until I see a legitimate source of information.

There is no such thing, in terms of websites or anything written by mankind.

There is only one true source of knowledge, and that is experience. You can infer things and assume things, and speculate on others; but just because a source "looks legitimate" and their information "appears reasonable" does not give a 100% chance for legitimacy. There is always room for error.

I usually try to stay in the realms of "if", "maybe", "perhaps","possibly".

This really does give room for more choices to take on determining what you think is the most likely situation.

I am wrong often, as is everyone else; but finding out you are wrong is a good thing not a bad thing. When I discover I am wrong I can learn from my mistakes, and I can access new previously unknown information.

This helps to connect the dots in my opinion.

One thing I always try to keep telling myself is this nice little tidbit.

"We are all wrong sometimes as no one is perfect, but we are also all right sometimes as each of us has a piece of the puzzle we are all trying to solve; and only through cooperation and sharing can we ever solve this grand and tantalizing puzzle called existence."

I do not hold it against someone if they are wrong. I like to argue, its fun. I learn new things from people that way.
I hold no grudges. In fact, I typically friend people that I disagree with when they truly are seeking a fun debate on fun subjects!

Originally posted by Chadwickus
Nope, it seems as if no one fact checks, hell there are many who don't bother reading their own sources!

I've lost count of the amount of times when I have pointed out flaws or misinformation of sources or theories and the only reply I get from the OP of these threads is cries of disinfo agent or shill or whatever.

I didn't realise that critical thinking was so difficult...

I am at the point(s?) of being pulled into a million directions at once.

This causes me to wonder, are there even such thing as facts?

Or is the Universe a liquid, that changes?

Edit : Ok Im not sober its the weekend sorry. I totally mis-worded that.

This is what I really am trying to ask.

"How are You sure that you know the facts?"

I agree the facts exist (universe), but I disagree that anyone person has exclusive rights to them over others.

[edit on 23-4-2010 by muzzleflash]

For example I rarely see people admit they are wrong.

I can just rattle off the names; of people that I think, always think they are right.

I am not condemning that, because I would be condemning myself. I have this same propensity to consider myself "factually correct" almost all the time. But I have a deep rooted fear that causes me to fear being incorrect, and fear the embarrassment and possible ridicule.

Since I am aware I am not perfect, and I do not know everything (nor will I ever know it all), so I force myself to admit inaccuracies as soon as I catch them.

I honestly am a truth seeker. But I realize I have not found it yet.

It just sorta disappoints me that some people have too much pride to admit when they either do not know actually, or have no way to know.

That's why I try to strive away from that. (But hey no one's perfect I screw up all the time!)

reply to post by tylermbell

80 percent [minimum] of people on this deny they have any ignorance.

80% ?

i read a claim that a certain percentage of all statistics quotes are made up