Truck driver forced to show birth certificate claims racial-profiling

Originally posted by Night Star
It's the fault of the government and corporations who hire illegals. They have made it too easy for them to come and stay.

The US always has the need for cheap labor. The US used to allow the african slavery to be legal. Now.. illegal immigrants are the modern cheap labor.

If you're trying to drive them away. Their employer will lobby for immigration reform and make it easier for illegal immigrant to become legal. It's inevitable, without cheap labor, the US won't be able to maintain its rather high standard of living (compares to the rest of the world). And right now, the US doesn't have the technology to offset the loss of that cheap labor.

Ok, I think the police state arguments are getting old in this thread. If you want to see a police state, look at Philadelphia during the G20 summit last year. THAT was a police state. There are much better examples of police states in this country to get riled up to cry out against. This isn't that bad. One guy got racially profiled. It's a scare tactic to get the illegals to leave on their own. Like someone else said, this is AZ's problem since the federal government won't help on the illegal immigration issue and enforce it's own laws. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing armed militia's or the AZ National Guard on the AZ - Mexico border soon.

reply to post by Taupin Desciple


Honestly, if your post is any indication of the sentiment of the majority of residents there, I hope Texas secedes and takes Arizona with them.

We could EASILY replace their two stars on the flag with US Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico. Smells like the armpit of the US.





[edit on 23-4-2010 by kinda kurious]

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


I Fully understand the CDL requirements. So do mexicans. That's how they know what they have to forge and what they don't.

As for your second question. No. I don't. He obviously had no idea as to the kind and amount of paperwork he needed. And neither do you. And in this day and age, that is simply unacceptable. We have truckers in this thread who know EXACTLY what they're talking about, yet still you don't want to listen.

We have state laws on the books here in Az. [ and posted in this thread BTW] that make it a crime for an employer to knowingly hire someone without the proper documentation proving that they are here legally. Yet still, they do it. Some would rather pay the fine than hire legal workers for a higher wage because they end up better financially by doing so. You also have illegals forging documents. You also have small contracters paying cash under the table for 1 or 2 days. To say that we have no laws preventing any of this from happening is naive at best.

And who said anything about propaganda? I don't have to watch the news to know what's going on around me. I lived in Phx. for 20 years and drove cab for 8 of those. It was during that time that I came to the conclusion that the Feds have no idea what they're doing when it comes to Az.,the state has always done too little, like making laws with loopholes so big you could walk an elephant through them [ no offense to you republicans out there ] , and the media mainly reports on what is going to get them more ratings. When the "illegal" news cycle has run it's course, it's still a major problem out in the streets, out in reality. Ask any cop you run across, he'll tell you the same thing.

I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that I am dependant on the feds. If I was, I'd be dead by now. They're useless to me.

The best example I can give you of the federal governments intelligence and expertise when it comes to border issues, is the fence itself. Have you seen it lately?

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Peace

reply to post by TheRedneck


If the officer was not USDOT certified, and every one that is must wear the patch on their uniform, then that officer is in a world of crap while up crap creek in the middle of a crap-storm.

For all the rules and regulations that a CDL holder must endure, there is one redemption. No officer except a USDOT certified officer can interfere with interstate commerce unless a first degree felony, excessive speed or immediate danger to life or property is being committed by the driver.

A regular officer cannot even ask to see a logbook. So if a driver is pulled over by a regular cop for a light out. He can sit there while the officer does his thing and before signing the ticket ask the officer if he could do a full DOT inspection and place a new sticker for the truck and trailer. If the officer refuses or says he does not have one, the driver can ask for the officer's supervisor to come and perform one. If the Supervisor cannot or refuses, then the driver can ask for a USDOT certified officer to come and perform one. When one does come, and they must call for to come at that point, the driver can say to the DOT officer that they were pulled over by this officer and neither he nor his supervisor demonstrated that they were authorized to interfere with interstate commerce nor able to perform a proper inspection, but tried to issue this ticket. The ticket will be "taken care of" on the spot.

But yeah the DAC report, everything put on there lasts for ten years. And if it shows that you were out of the truck for 11 months in a 10 year period, you are basically become an inexperienced driver to insurance companies. The top paying companies won't touch anyone with less than 3 year OTR experience because of the insurance. And a license suspension for any reason, is pretty much a death sentence.

reply to post by Taupin Desciple


I'll try to paste that link again. My bad

1st line tax



Peace

reply to post by Taupin Desciple


I'll try to paste that link again. My bad

1st line tax



Peace

[edit on 23-4-2010 by Taupin Desciple]

reply to post by Taupin Desciple

As for your second question. No. I don't. He obviously had no idea as to the kind and amount of paperwork he needed. And neither do you. And in this day and age, that is simply unacceptable. We have truckers in this thread who know EXACTLY what they're talking about, yet still you don't want to listen.

I think you are the one that has no idea...the truckers here have clearly said that if he had a valid CDL and gave his SSN then he should of been fine. My dad drove for 30+ years, half of that OTR but not across borders...never carried a birth certificate. This driver was not driving over the border either and doesn't seem he was even out of state...close enough for his wife to bring his birth certificate. Your argumetns are ridiculous.

But let's ask the truckers one more time.

To the truckers here...do you need anything else besides your CDL and SSN...LEGALLY??? Do you always carry your birth certificate with you and regularlly have to show it at weigh stations???

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


I carried my birth certificate and driver training certificate. Both had to copied and placed on file for companies that I worked for that were compliant. My current company is exempt from DOT regulations but has my BC on file, a medical exam (non-DOT) and does a yearly DMV report. So while exempt, they do follow some of the rules for what is kept on file.

In addition to CDL and SS Card, a driver must also carry at all times his valid DOT Medical Card, although that will be changing in the next few years as CDL licenses with have it indicated and the issuing state will keep tabs on Medical Certification.

Now the truck itself has all kinds of paperwork that must be with the truck at all times as well. TheRedneck covered that pretty well so no need to repeat it.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


You still have no idea about the forgery issue do you.?

It is EXCATLY why commercial drivers need a books worth of paperwork to prove who they are, where they are going and why they are doing it.

I understand that he wasn't driving across any border. I understand that as far as Federal laws are concerned, that makes a difference. But Arizona is in a unique position in that we have more illegal ports of entry along the mexican border than any of the other border states. And as a result, we have a MUCH larger population of illegals. Either coming here or passing through.

Most of the citizens of this state understand that. Border agents, Shreiffs, Highway patrols, and local police also understand that. That's why they either bend the law a little, or go by the EXACT LETTER of the law and as a result come across as either Nazi wannabe's or straight up a##holes.People that don't live here though, don't fully understand any of this. Nor do I expect them to.

What we would like to see though is a little understanding on everyone else's part as to why we in Arizona NEED a law like this. Instead, what we get is that we're Nazi sympathizers, backwoods idiots, and southern seccesionists [sp?] who don't give a darn 'bout nobody else.

If you don't have a real-time, practical solution to this problem, then butt out.

If all you want to do is tell us that what we're doing is "wrong" instead of giving us suggestions as to how to do this the "right " way, then butt out.

If you haven't walked a mile in our shoes, don't try telling us where we're going. We'll end up telling YOU.



Peace

reply to post by Ahabstar


So you carried it...but legally were not required to do so. Your company was required to have it on file...but you were not required to carry it.

And that is what I thought...but others can't seem to grasp.

Originally posted by Yummy Freelunch
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/79e050e622ba.jpg[/atsimg]

Because you look like this...now you will be arrested..

Jackie says, “It doesn't feel like it's a good way of life, to live with FEAR,even though we are okay, we are legal…still have to carry documents around.”

FEAR..this man has to live in FEAR now

Actually that's a great photo, the ID he shows doesn't have a photo on it. So his SS has no photo and the CDL has no photo. How do you know that those ID even belong to him? Up in Alberta we had an issue with Hutterites getting a DL and refusing the photo for religious reasons but then 10-12 of them would share one license and you couldn't prove that the one who's license was in hand was the one licensed to drive said commercial van.

reply to post by Ahabstar

You're on the money with that post, except for one thing:

And if it shows that you were out of the truck for 11 months in a 10 year period, you are basically become an inexperienced driver to insurance companies.

15 months out and counting, and I still have my phone ringing off the hook at times wanting me to drive. Last I heard from a recruiter was that it was three years out of the truck.

Of course, you know what they say about recruiters.... The main requirement for a dispatcher is being able to lie well. If they lie too well, they make them a recruiter.

And if you lie too much to recruit.... nothing left but politics.

(Of course, I still have the job offers nonetheless.)

TheRedneck

reply to post by exile1981

Actually that's a great photo, the ID he shows doesn't have a photo on it. So his SS has no photo and the CDL has no photo. How do you know that those ID even belong to him? Up in Alberta we had an issue with Hutterites getting a DL and refusing the photo for religious reasons but then 10-12 of them would share one license and you couldn't prove that the one who's license was in hand was the one licensed to drive said commercial van.

Yeah...it probably doesn't have a picture on it because THAT IS HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE!!!!

Holy crap people...take a couple minutes, read the article and watch the video before you talk out of your arse.

Serioulsy...when did ATS become so stupid and uninformed??? It's almost an embarresment anymore...the misinformation here is sometimes worse than what's on the MSM.


FFS people...THINK.

[edit on 23-4-2010 by OutKast Searcher]

reply to post by TheRedneck


Yes, my friend called me a few months back. He has his tractor sitting while driving for another company. He said he has a lot of side contracts possible if he wanted to get his tractor out running again.

Asked if I wanted to run it. Know how to drive them, but none of the regs or even what is necessary to get a CDL.

Anyway, too many problems when I was a younger idiot. Maybe look into it. Still have not found anything yet in my fields of preference. Down to my last ingot and some cash. The panic will set in, in about 4-5 months when the TOTAL savings are gone.

Oh well, I keep hearing the economy is getting better. Hell with the stock market up and unemployment down, things must be getting better. /s

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

Legal requirement according to USDOT:

• CDL
  
• Valid short form medical card on person
  
• Access to valid long form medical certification
  
• Registration of vehicle (base plates)
  
• Certificate of authority
  
• Proof of insurance
  
• Proof of vehicle ownership/lease agreement
  
• Any Interstate Fuel Tax agreement
  
• Log book (complete for last 8 days or through last hour restart)
  
• Bill of Lading or Manifest if loaded

(Ahabstar, did I miss anything?)

In addition, states can issue their own requirements. Generally these are things like special privilege permits, or state-specific fuel tax permits, but they can also require additional identification if they choose to.

Quick answer: No, USDOT does not require a birth certificate. But AZ might.

TheRedneck


[edit on 4/23/2010 by TheRedneck]

reply to post by exile1981

That is not a CDL he is holding... it looks a little like a short form medical card...

TheRedneck

ETA: OK, OutKast Searcher already ID'd it as a birth certificate... I'm slow today...

AZ BC's are sure smaller than they are in Alabama!

TheRedneck


[edit on 4/23/2010 by TheRedneck]

reply to post by TheRedneck


I think it is his birth certificate...in the video when he holds it up he is talking about having to carry his birth certificate with him. I think it is folded up...when they show a different picture of it you can see the folds (looks to be folded into quarters).

But either way...it definately isn't a CDL or a SS card.

[edit on 23-4-2010 by OutKast Searcher]

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


So you've stated your case as to why you think this situation is wrong.

You've called people names because they disagree with you. Whatever.

How about something constructive; like how should this have been handled the "right" way?

Maybe the officer should have let him go his way because he had a few papers stating who he supposedly was, along with a verbal reciting of an S.S. #.

Look at it from the officers point of view. So the driver got past other weigh stations or checkpoints with the paperwork he had. Or maybe he didn't. If he did, the officer felt that no one else asked for the right type or amount of paperwork, so he would. Maybe, and quite possibly, this particular officer made other stops where illegals were caught in the vehicle. It happens on a daily basis in Az. The driver could have had all the paperwork he needed and then some. That still doesn't mean that there aren't illegals in the back.

What the officer was more than likely doing was buying time so he could physically check the contents of the truck. If the law states that a commercial driver MUST have his B.C. on record, maybe the officer misconstrued that law as meaning on the drivers' person. It was an honest mistake. It's called erring on the side of caution. And since the driver didn't have it, that gave the officer probable cause to search the vehicle.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. Just us backwards hicks down here in the desert. But since you're not from here, I wouldn't expect you to know that. So now you do.

You're welcome



Peace