Truck driver forced to show birth certificate claims racial-profiling

Originally posted by Jenna

Originally posted by AzoriaCorp
Oh whaa whaa. Boo hoo.

Then he can go back to Mexico with the drug cartel and their war.

Thats fear.

You have got to be kidding... The man was born here. He's an American who just happens to be Hispanic. Not a Mexican who snuck across the border.

Congratulations. You win the racist of the day award.

Jenna, I couldn't agree more. This is only the 2nd time I've issued this.

@ AzoriaCorp:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/36963aeb268e.jpg[/atsimg]

kozmo won't mind.

reply to post by endisnighe


Yep, I have long said that if you want to understand the American Dream just ask an immigrant what that is all about, they know! I have one of those Chinese fast food restaurants just around the corner from where I live. Well over a year ago, I was sitting in that restaurant eating when some local agent came by demanding to speak to the owner. The owner came out and listened to what the guy had to say, listening intently, and nodding politely.

What this agent was telling the owner was that he could not keep serving his food in Styrofoam containers, because it was "against the law". When he finished explaining he asked the owner if he understood. The owner said no in his broken English way, explaining he didn't understand English enough to understand. So, the agent demanded to speak to someone who did speak English and the owner had one of his younger employees handle this clown. She speaks English close to fluently and listened intently to what this clown had say, nodding politely. The agent explained his purpose for being there again, and when done asked if she understood, and she said politely;

"No sir, I am sorry, but I don't"

Clown boy got real agitated and said he thought she spoke English. She insisted she did speak English and pretty well. He then asked how come she didn't understand and she responded;

"Because I don't think you understand what your talking about"

I had a hard time not laughing at that, but kept quiet and listened while Clown Boy assured her he understood the law. She responded by attempting to repeat what he told her regarding this "law". She asked if he was telling her that it was illegal to put food on the Styrofoam plates, and happily he decared; "Yes! That's it exactly" She said; "I don't understand", he said; "Yes you do, you just showed me you did." She said; "But sir, if it is illegal to do this, then how come we can buy these Styrofoam plates?" He rolled his eyes and with a smarmy tone said that there is no law preventing people outside of business from using Styrofoam plates. She answered; "But sir, we bought these plates from a restaurant supply house, how is that legal that they can sell us these plates?"

I could longer contain myself and bust out laughing. Clown Boy turned around and glared at me. I stood up and addressed him and asked him if he thought he was now going to harass me? He told me this was none of my business, and I told him that these people had made it perfectly clear that this was none of his business, and further demonstrated they understood the law. That was it. He clamped up and left. To this day that restaurant still uses Styrofoam plates.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Yes, I think I may have to become an illegal also this year.

I wonder if I get caught if I will get the same thing?

What I mean is maybe it is about time that all of us start being illegal employees and employers. Time to make a stand.

Jury nullification if they attempt to arrest us.

Time to make a non violent, very strong stand. Frell the tax freaks. Frell the bankster mafia. Frell the control freaks. And ESPECIALLY, frell the sockpuppets.

reply to post by ventian

I look at a black guy with FUBU on and he is a thug in my mind.

And that's the problem. I'm not a "thug" yet i dress like the other young black men in America and before i open my mouth people like you have preconceptions already made up, that's what pisses me off. I'm not changing anything about myself, least of all how i dress. Attitudes like that is what's preventing us all from moving forward.

I've stopped "profiling" people quite awhile ago because all it is is a stereotype, nothing more or less. When you make assumptions about somebody based on their dress, manner of talk, religion, or nationality your no better than those cowards wearing white sheets on their heads that call themselves the KKK...your right in the same boat!

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by DaddyBare
Yes there probably is some racism and profiling going on but the instant you accepted your CDL you also gave up your rights to privacy.

If you have to have fingerprints, show your BC and basically lay your entire life on the line, then having a cdl should be a pretty good indication that you're legit, shouldn't it?

I don't claim to know what it's like to be a commercial truck driver today (or anytime) but it would seem that if carrying one's birth certificate is mandatory, then this guy should have known that. Is there a requirement that commercial truck drivers have to carry your BC on you at all times? Is it known that carrying your BC is mandatory? Do you carry yours? Thanks.

Oh I carry that and more... I also have to have a DOT physical card on me plus the results of my last official drug testing.... add to that the results of my homeland security background check too...

its rare they bother with them if you just shove all that paper work in their faces but if you don't have something and there's a question they can shut you down and tag you personally "Out Of Service"... if your not moving your not getting paid so you don't take the risk of being made to shut down

Edit to add...
the why is in the past some shady trucking companies would hire non-qualified drivers fake paperwork for them and send them out on the road with no training whatsoever... people got killed... DOT watches us pretty closely

[edit on 23-4-2010 by DaddyBare]

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


The 4th Amendment is a federal protection against illegal search and seizure. As in being pulled over for being Latino and demanding paperwork based on just that.

This does not apply in the workplace.

This law is WRONG! I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU ARE FOR THIS LAW! I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU ARE FOR A LAW THAT ALLOWS PEOPLE TO BE RACIALLY PROFILED! I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU ARE FOR A LAW THAT ALLOWS FOR THE 4TH AMENDMENT TO BE VIOLATED!

I don't give a crap what justification you give it! This law is unconstitutional!

I don't understand why you constantly argue with me on EVERY THING I PUT FORWARD!

Every single thing I post on here, you want to twist into something else! WHY? It's not about something else, it's about this singular subject!

This is my OPINION DAMMIT! THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE IN! Don't twist it to mean something ELSE! This is my OPINION on THIS subject SINGULARLY!

I answer you, and you twist it, I respond to that charge, and you twist it. WHAT THE HELL?

Federal Criminal Law and Civil Law are two entirely different things. You are a smart person, figure it out!

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

If you have to have fingerprints, show your BC and basically lay your entire life on the line, then having a cdl should be a pretty good indication that you're legit, shouldn't it?

One would think that, BH, but sadly it isn't true.

Even if I decide to go back to driving (which I would like to do in the future), I will not cross the border. Some of the customs stations actually use x-rays that are strong enough to wipe the hard drive of a computer (and I have seen this happen). Even a birth certificate is insufficient for Canada now, according to some friends who still drive; instead there is another background check and fingerprinting process for something called a FAST card that is required for commercial vehicles to cross. The HAZMAT certification background check is insufficient for the FAST card, and vice-versa.

I always ask potential employers if they go to Canada. If the answer is yes, I ask "What is the easiest crime I can commit so I won't have to go?"

Incidentally, I have driven through those same x-ray machines in Texas, Illinois, Florida, and Louisiana as well... this is no longer constrained to the national borders. Each time I pulled over on the entrance ramp from the weigh station and powered up my laptop to make sure everything was still there.

Eventually, there will be another shortage of drivers due to all this, and when that happens, I hope everyone's shelves are well-stocked. I know of more drivers who have quit (not rookies; drivers with 20-30 years under their wheels) than I do of those who continue to drive.

The reason is always the same: "I'm tired of being treated like a criminal."

TheRedneck

I'm sure this has been posted but what the heck.

The only way to do away with illegals, is to shut off any help, financial, food stamps, unemployment, Wick, ( poor kids will pay a price too, but its worse if the parent is sitting in jail), absolutely NO employment for undocumented people, no medical help...no NOTHING!

It is up to the FEDS to provide such sanctions and not some crazed power hungry broad in Arizona signing a document. That's for sure. Arizona will be a POLICE STATE,if nobody feels safe stepping outside for fear that they will be stopped. THAT IS NOT FREEDOM. That is BULL.

I dont know who the 70% is that wants this law, they are cutting off their noses to spite their faces!!!!! Those willing to give up any and all rights will be sorry pieces of crap.

MEXICANS KEEP COMING BECAUSE THEY GET JOBS AND HANDOUTS. If it all stopped, so would they stop coming here. THEY ARE NOT STUPID.

I hope Obama puts a stop to this evil law at once.

And for those who say, "I dont care, i got nothing to hide"....ha!
It will affect you too! How will it feel having round ups and being under suspicion? THE TYPE OF SHOES YOU WEAR IS A TIP OFF.

when i saw that on CNN, i wanted to puke.

Its a joke. My own mother, a naturalized citizen who lives there, is NOW beginning to wake up and say that she wouldnt want to be submitted to such actions. God love her, SHE IS FINALLY AWAKE!!!!!

Anyway, Phoenix is bound to become that desert it is supposed to be.

This is sickning.

Originally posted by DaddyBare
its rare they bother with them if you just shove all that paper work in their faces but if you don't have something and there's a question they can shut you down and tag you personally "Out Of Service"...

Is there a guideline, policy or rule that people with a cdl have to carry a birth certificate? That's my basic question. If not, then this guy was wrongly detained, IMO.

We need these people to go into the whitehouse and arrest Obama for not presenting his birth cirtificate. If its that impotant for a truck driver it should at least be equally important for the president to present his.

Back to being on topic. I don't have my birth cirtificate on me half the time. His drivers license should have sufficed so in that sense, yes, it was some form of profiliing. I hope they checked his beard for explosives though.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


A member of the Arizona politics bruhaha was being interviewed THIS MORNING. When asked if people should carry documents, he said "NO".

If they suspect you, they will take you in and after (Red Tape, my words), then they will let you go.

Isnt that nice? In the meantime you are in jail not knowing what the hell is going to happen to you or your family.

Please see my previous post. I dont expect you to agree with me, but i think i make good sense.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
Eventually, there will be another shortage of drivers due to all this, and when that happens, I hope everyone's shelves are well-stocked.

Sooner that you think

Beginning this year and continuing into 2012, there will be a shortage of truck drivers, the result of a modestly growing economy and tighter government regulation of drivers.
...
He said the capacity shortage will result because the demand for drivers will exceed the system’s ability to provide drivers. “We’re not talking about availability of candidates but the industry’s ability to process candidates,” Perry said, including training, drug testing and processing.

Thanks for the informative post.

Originally posted by dgtempe
Please see my previous post. I dont expect you to agree with me, but i think i make good sense.

That star on your previous post was from me.

I agree with it 100%.

reply to post by disfugured


I think the issue of the birth certificate is an excuse because they cant say we dont want him as president 'cause he's black. Plain and simple.

I'm concerned more about the issues that are taking off liike wildfire and will affect all, yes, even the blonde people with blue eyes.

Anyone hiring illegals, should be doing 20 years in jail. You will see the insanity stop.

reply to post by whatukno


There you go twisting the purpose of the law AGAIN there wuk, to make your POINT.

Please post the part of the bill that states they can racial profile.

I have already posted the section of the bill that states it must be a LAWFUL engagement with police or the government.

AND THEN YOU CONTINUE TO STATE THEY ARE GOING TO PULL PEOPLE OVER WILL NILLY.

Quit your lies and obfuscations.

reply to post by whatukno


Before I respond to your first assertion, allow me to respond to this:

This law is WRONG! I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU ARE FOR THIS LAW! I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU ARE FOR A LAW THAT ALLOWS PEOPLE TO BE RACIALLY PROFILED! I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU ARE FOR A LAW THAT ALLOWS FOR THE 4TH AMENDMENT TO BE VIOLATED!

End has called you on this tactic, in the past I have called you on this tactic, but you still insist on using it. I have not supported this legislation, and further pay DAMN close attention to the subtlety and nuance of that language! Where you refer to this dubious legislation as "law", I have not once ever referred to this as law. Law is never wrong, do you understand? If it is law is is just.

I have taken the time in a few threads on this issue to post several Sections of Article II, being the Declaration of Rights of the Constitution for the State of Arizona, to illustrate how unconstitutional this legislation probably is. How dare you attempt to frame me as one who has supported this law. Especially given your equivocations regarding the 4th Amendment. Taking my cue from your favorite game; the Tim McVeigh comparison, I have to ask you, are you like Mark Potok Jr.? To hell the with the truth just smear people and declare yourself right.

Now, going back to your first assertion:

The 4th Amendment is a federal protection against illegal search and seizure. As in being pulled over for being Latino and demanding paperwork based on just that. This does not apply in the workplace.

Obviously you are ignoring state declaration of rights that also demand due process of law, so maybe you just don't read my posts and make stupid assumptions instead, because had you read my posts you would know that there is more than a federal Constitution protecting rights. Your assertion that it does not apply in the workplace can only be true if it is a private decision made by a private employer. If an employer is made to, by legislation, make the demands you suggested, then it is unconstitutional!

I don't give a crap what justification you give it! This law is unconstitutional!

Quit being such a poser as it is becoming increasingly clear you are all for unconstitutional legislation.

I don't understand why you constantly argue with me on EVERY THING I PUT FORWARD!

Not at all true and there are plenty of posts I make in admiration and support of your efforts, and I don't do it for your approval, I do it because its honest. You might try that sometime. It may not be good for politics, but it is surely good for communication.

Every single thing I post on here, you want to twist into something else! WHY? It's not about something else, it's about this singular subject!

Twist? I expect you, if elected to Congress, to obey the damn law! Is that just to much ask of you?

This is my OPINION DAMMIT! THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE IN! Don't twist it to mean something ELSE! This is my OPINION on THIS subject SINGULARLY!

You are more than entitled to your opinions, as am I. I am not twisting anything. Twisting is what you are doing when you insist, falsely, that I am in support of this law. That is twisting and right now your just covering your tracks while you retreat.

Federal Criminal Law and Civil Law are two entirely different things. You are a smart person, figure it out!

Neither Criminal Law nor Civil Law has any authority to abrogate and derogate a persons right. Your a smart person, figure that out!

So when will they get around to doing something about the illegals streaming over the Canadian border? When I lived in Michigan, it seemed like half the workers came from Canada.

Then look at all the actors, show hosts and other high profile jobs taken by Canadians: why don't we do somethng about them? If you're going to protect the southern border from illegals you should do the same for the northern.

Ah, but that would mean profiling whites, and that isn't as cool or easy as harassing non-whites.

Arizona has always been racist, and genocidal: Arizonans made have never been bashful about their preference for ethnic cleansing and genocide; over the years, they've been pretty consistently killing, enslaving, and harassing Native Americans and other people of color. So I don't see this as anything but business as usual for them.

But I still ask:

When will something be done about our leaky northern border, and stop those pesky Canooks from coming in and stealing all the good jobs?

I have to comment on the arguments on here that since he is a truck driver...it was ok.

First...he was not crossing the border...he was just stopping at a weigh station. If he was trying to come back into the country from Mexico and all he had was his CDL...I would agree with their actions. But this isn't the case...he was driving within the United States.

Second...what is the reason for all the strict policies in obtaining a CDL if you are still going to have to provide all those documents AGAIN out on the road???

Third...I do realize that as a truck driver you are under more regulations than a regular driver...but no where on the CDL application does it say you have given up your Constitutional rights.



I don't see why people are trying to defend this law or the actions stated in this article...AND ON ATS. I realize a lot of you don't like illegal immigration (even though it has provided you with the low cost of living most of you enjoy). But are you all really willing to give up your Constitutional rights....or willing to give up the Constitutional rights of fellow americans that have a darker skin tone....JUST because you think all our problems stem from illegal immigration??? Are you willing to throw out the constitution because you think this new law won't apply to you, only those with a darker skin tone???


Do the ends justify the means??? Is this really what ATS members now promote? To hell with our rights...as long as it pushes your own personal agenda?


It's a sad day, not only on ATS but for America, when even the people who are supposed to be "awake" will support with open arms the beginning of a police state like this.

reply to post by dgtempe

A lot of the problem is that the Feds will not implement anything to slow or stop the flow of illegal immigrants. They come over with no identification, no skills, no way to pay their way, and then saddle the state with bills for medical care, education, food stamps, welfare, etc., etc., etc. In the meantime, the states are going broke taking care of them.

You can break the illegal immigrants into three categories:

• Those who come across on their own. They have no income, no skills, no job (as already mentioned), typically cannot even speak a word of English, and have no knowledge of how things work. All they know is that their country is killing them and they want a better life. I feel for these, but we simply cannot afford to house them all. A better plan would be to somehow encourage Mexico to improve its economy for its people.
  
  Sometimes, these folks will find manual labor jobs and actually make a life for themselves. Sometimes they die in the crossing. Sometimes they live their lives in abject poverty. Sometimes they end up as part of the next group. It's a crap shoot, with life-and-death stakes.
  
  
• Imported illegal workers come across typically with the aid of a 'coyote' (human smuggler). They come specifically to work at sweatshop jobs for subsistence wages far below those established as 'Minimum Wage'. They are housed in dirty crowded company-owned hovels, and are subjected to treatment that is sometimes brutal... just for a chance to be in the United States. Like the first group, they have no money, because they are paid so little, and rely on government services to survive instead of their employer to provide a reasonable living wage.
  
  The best way to stop them is to make jail time mandatory for anyone who knowingly (or purposely) hires an illegal alien. fines can be passed down to customers and in most cases cost less than the burden of hiring American workers. Jail time cannot be passed on to consumers.
  
  Also, there has to be stricter enforcement of the border to stop these coyotes from their business ventures.
  
  
• A small percentage of illegal immigrants come across not to escape poverty or to try and live in the US, but to purposely break our laws. This includes drug smugglers and sometimes simple thieves and hoodlums who are simply looking for more profitable targets than are available in Mexico. I have one friend who owns a ranch on the border in south Texas; he no longer lives there. His best friend, who was also his ranch foreman, was shot and killed by cattle rustlers a few years back... not while rustling, but after they had been thwarted in a revenge plot. All his men are now armed and under his orders to shoot to kill anyone who is not identifiable on sight, not as some sort of police action, but for their own self-protection. He has lost thousands upon thousands of dollars worth of cattle and horses, had buildings burned to the ground, and now is exiled from the area for his own safety. He resides in another state, which I will not reveal at his request.
  
  He cannot sell his ranch even; no one else wants it. The last I heard, he intended to abandon it, but was letting it continue at the request of his hands. They have no other job prospects in the area and cannot afford (nor do they want) to move.
  
  Now consider how many in the world at large would like to harm the US, for a myriad of economic and political reasons. An open border is an open invitation to anyone who has even more dastardly intents than those mentioned above. It can and does happen; there has been more than one case of someone other than Mexicans crossing the border illegally. Thus the official designation from the border Patrol of OTM (Other Than Mexican) illegal immigrants.

For those who keep crying about how inhumane banning illegal immigrants is, I ask you: how inhumane is it to allow my friend to be forcefully removed from land that has been in his family for generations? How inhumane is it to force his workers to risk (and lose) their lives daily, just so they can have a job? How inhumane is it to allow illegal workers to be treated like livestock just so a company can profit? How inhumane is it to keep those poor people who keep coming to us for help from finding their own help in their own country?

Yes, DG, this law is a shame. But it is a shame which could have been prevented if only the US government would do its job... and that job is not implementing mandatory health insurance or giving money to banks; it is protecting the national borders from those who would harm our own citizens.

Leave it to the USA to do what is not supposed to be done in order to ignore what is supposed to be done, then try to blame someone else for adjusting to such a backward situation.

As I see it, Arizona doesn't have much of a choice...

TheRedneck

reply to post by endisnighe


You do know they are already stopping and profiling whom they want, even as i type this...
It is solely up to the cop. He doesnt have many guidelines except for the obvious and of course, what kind of shoes they are wearing! LOL That right there is insane all on its own.