Why does Satan seem cool and God seem like a jerk?

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
For the same reasons your friends in high school seemed cool and your dad seemed like a jerk. I assure you that as you mature, your views will too...and you will realize that neither your dad nor God is a jerk.

In fact, you quickly find they weren't as dumb as you thought, and the older you get...the less you are so sure of....LOL

Your dad purposely went out and found bad infulences for you to befriend and surrounded you with "cool" temptations that would lure you away from his protective love and teachings?

My dad did not but I was reading about your god and apparently he did that.

After all that free will BS, your god then went on and allowed his old friend Satan to fill the world with lies, deception, temptation, and confusion. He did not need to let that happen.
He could have just given you free will, good advice (do not pet lions, surface when you run out of air, people cannot fly, etc.) and sent you on your way. That sounds more like my dad.
He loved me, taught me, cared for me, looked out for me, and still allowed me to make my own mistakes. He did not have an old friend sprinkle my life with lies and temptation for apparently no good reason.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by On the Edge

 

But he doesn't have the best Rock Bands and Musicians under exclusive contract like I do!

Sure maybe you pay a little more for that kind of quality in the long run, but you get what you pay for.

Look, I know it's not fair, but I also offer free Cable TV for the first 500 years, and then just 29.95 a month after that!

Free Cable man!

Just sign here...

______________________

Oh and here

______________________


Print your name here


______________________


Date it here


______________________

Oh in blood please!

Ink it fades!

You will be making the right decision!

I have yet to hear a rock band do a decent version of "How Great Thou Art",and there's nothing worth watching on T.V.,cable or not!

I will miss alot of my friends though.

(Love your sense of humor,Proto! You may be even smarter than I think you are,...and that's pretty smart!)

Originally posted by MikeboydUS


Has Satan ever killed anyone?

Wow, people need to pick up a Bible and read.

Satan takes everything from Job and I mean everything, including killing his family. He does it to try to prove a point. He tries to prove that the only reason Job has such great faith in G-d is because G-d had blessed him so much.

Yes, people do need to pick a bible and read it. God accepted the challenge. God gave Satan PERMISSION to bring so much pain to Job. Satan did not do anything to Job without first getting the OK from God. Read the story.

Why did your god accept a challenge from Satan that would bring so much suffering upon and innocent and devoted man? Too counter Satan's point -ie Make a point to Satan.

Who come off as more evil in that story?

John Milton's Paradise Lost and Dante's Inferno have completely brainwashed most people into thinking Satan is something else.

Who on this board is quoting the type of devil illustrated by either fictional author? I think you are confused because Christians are prone to just believe books are some divine truth. Atheists and the like are able to find their way out of the fiction section.

Satan in the Bible is a tyrant.

God in the Bible is a tyrant.

He isn't in hell. He has not fallen.

Again, ditto.

He doesn't like humans. He is compelled to prosecute humanity, which means one thing.

Satan? Are you sure you read any of that bible you are telling others to read? GOD PROSECUTES HUMANITY NOT SATAN. Satan does not hand out judgement, your god does. Satan is not a prosecuter, he is just the jailer. He takes what your god sends him. Knowing what Satan is going to do with them, it hardly resembles anything to the contrary of what you state about Satan to still willingly send them to him. Obviously your god does not like humans or he would not prosecute them and send them off to the worst punishment imaginable.

He wants humanity exterminated.

Then why does he not just rain fire down on cities and kill whole lots of them? Oh, right, your god does that.

Why does he not just flood the planet and kill them all? Oh, right, your god again.

How about getting humans to kill each other over him? Damn, your god have Park Place and Boardwalk, plus that light blue crap on the other side of GO.

Hmmm...what can Satan do to kill humanity (as you say he wants to) that your god has not already done or is doing?

How about get people to believe that they have the right to murder other people over stupid laws like cursing at your father? Damn, your god again.

Maybe you just have God and Satan confused?

This idea of Satan being a rebel is based on assumptions and misconceptions.

Out of curiosity, why does your bible say the rift between God and whatever you call Satan began or what was it about?

Two clear misconceptions, the serpent in Eden and Helel king of Babylon. Neither of them are the same as the Satan of Job.

Funny, I tried to argue the same thing and all I got was the verbal beat-down from a bunch of faux-Christians. Where were you to back me up?

All of this Promethean nonsense is fan fiction.

...and the award for best use of a pretend reference with no real link in a completely empty sentence goes to...


Mikey!!!

Applause applause.

So Satan has started wars, killed, and even committed atrocities. He doesn't care if we kill each other anymore than if maggots murdered one another.

When did your god show any concern over whether or not we kill each other?

I can agree Satan does not care if we kill each other.

Unfortunately, not only does God also not seem to care - he punishes us on top of it for it.

Originally posted by ItsAgentScully
reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint

 

The way I've seen it portrayed is like this:

God is the father that always seem to find out what you did and punishes you for it, with his hopes you become a better person and learn from the punishment. Satan is like that "cool" adult that gives you beer before your legal and lets you do things your dad wont let you do. Sooner or later you find out the guy could care less about your well-being and just did it for amusement.

*I'm not religious nor is this meant to be a reflection of my beliefs.

Don't forget what this magical book is really telling you. In your scenarion, according to the bible -

Your dad made the beer and introduced you to that other cool guy fully knowing what he was all about.

Oh, and that god is omniscient so he also knew how you would behave, what choices you would make, and whether or not you would deserve to be punished for it...and he lets it all go down anyway instead of banishing that other guy, getting rid of the beer, and just talking to you about good and bad choices.

[edit on 24-4-2010 by K J Gunderson]

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


Here is why Satan seems cool and God seems like a jerk.

Satan offers the easy options, the roads that humans prefer.

God offers the difficult options, the roads that people can't be bothered to follow.

Do you think we are here to have an easy lazy life? OK, follow Satan.

Or are we here in order to learn, to grow and to help others? OK, follow God.

Or I could rephrase and say, Satan equals evil and God equals good - the names are almost the same - God and good. You do not have to be religious to differentiate between good and evil.

But what about having to atone at some point?

this kinda reminds me of Al Pachinos speech in Devils Advocate.

Why is it that God gets all the applause when its the Devil that brings happyness to people..

Why is it that God watches us while the devil walks among us?

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


Boy I wonder if you are political shill looking to bait a argument maybe you go and read the thread about ADL.


But troll away I bet you will find plenty of sheep to argue a point you probably could care less about.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by ImaNutter

 

I think you misunderstood my point.

My point was that G-d gives us the freewill to make good or bad choices. Thats why there is so much human evil. There is also great good as well.

If G-d directly intervened all the time in our lives, we would have no free will.

I was asking would you prefer that kind of intervention? Do you want to be a drone?

No I comprehended everything you wrote... apparently my original point that you had responded to was not clear enough...

Nothing is consistent.

Where was the free will in Sodom and Gomorrah? Killing all the first sons whatever that nonsense was? Parting of the red sea ?? etc etc All this intervention into earthly dealings....

...in biblical times god was a regular fixture and intervened all the time in our "free will"... but in today's world you are saying its completely a free will thing! wrong millenium for miracles eh?

Did I just miss the point in the Bible (new or old testie) where yhwh says "alright, well you've seen what I can do but I'm going to be on leave for the next 3000 years ... sort it out for yourselves alright?" lol Not only is God not merciful (were we to believe its real) , but he's got a horrible call of rate too!

the original post that I had responded to was that god was merciful.. i loled ... surely not yhwh!!

I then provided some instances in which the deity described in the bible is shown clearly not to be merciful.. as he/it/she did things like rain fire and brimstone down on cities and turn women into a pile of salt (it was salt wasnt it?) Where was the woman's free will in deciding to turn around and look... ? I guess you could run circles and say "well she did make the decision to do it which means she had free will" but then what part about turning her into salt is merciful? That's all I wanted to say in my post.

More of my displeasure with the inconsistencies of the bible and our world we live in and the horrible problems this creates when one accepts the bible as truth.

On the free will point I actually agree with you that we all have it (and I believe we've always had it). But I don't believe it was a gift from the dude in the sky who sends fire and brimstone down to smite two cities because he didn't like the decisions they were making (opposite of free will)......

"Let me give you a little inside information about God. God likes to watch. He's a prankster. Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift, and then what does He do, I swear for His own amusement, his own private, cosmic gag reel, He sets the rules in opposition. It's the goof of all time. Look but don't touch. Touch, but don't taste. Taste, don't swallow. Ahaha. And while you're jumpin' from one foot to the next, what is he doing? He's laughin' His sick, #in' ass off! He's a tight-ass! He's a SADIST! He's an absentee landlord! Worship that? NEVER!"

"Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven", is that it?

Why not? I'm here on the ground with my nose in it since the whole thing began. I've nurtured every sensation man's been inspired to have. I cared about what he wanted and I never judged him. Why? Because I never rejected him. In spite of all his imperfections, I'm a fan of man! I'm a humanist. Maybe the last humanist. "

well...

Maybe theres some truth to this.

reply to post by GENESIS2012


Because the devil equals everything negative - get everything, grab everything, don't care about people etc etc etc, wage war, blah blah blah.

And God, or good, equals caring about your fellow human beings, animals and the planet.

The first option is easier.

Originally posted by On the Edge
Satan can look really cool while he is "campaigning"! Wait until the reality kicks in and the price needs to be paid.

This strangely sounds like a US president of recent times!

Food for thought: God says, Thou shall not judge...... is that command only for Mankind? .... does that not include Angels, even fallen ones?
That's what we're doing, judging Satan, and why does God not follow his own commandments, he Judges.

Originally posted by catwhoknows
reply to post by GENESIS2012

 

And God, or good, equals caring about your fellow human beings, animals and the planet.

Wait...did you really just say that?
Are you freakin' kidding me?
god cares about animals?
Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but your bible said (and I know I covered this before, but you probably didn't even read the whole thread before you decided to give your [sarcasm] educated opinion [/sarcasm] ) that man (and it doesn't even say "woman" or "people" or "humans", it says man, so right there, your god is a sexist jerk) has dominion over animals.

In giving man dominion over animals, man has developed factory farming. Millions of animals tortured and murdered every day...living in miserable conditions, treated inhumanely, and dying in indescribable fear and agony...because...your god "cares about animals". Do you even have a freakin' clue?

Honestly...there is insurmountable evidence that none of you think before you speak or even listen to a fraction of the stuff that comes out of your mouths.

People turn around and ask me if I've read the bible, so I can, in turn, ask them if they know about the torture and suffering their post-church Sunday dinner steak came from. You all cast the very stones you accuse other of casting.

reply to post by K J Gunderson


Ive stated before that Satan can't do anything without G-d authorizing it.

That doesn't change his desire to commit such actions.

Its not so much as a challenge. Does a prosecutor challenge a judge when bringing a case before him?

A better question would be why is there such a system of agents and wardens that operate, bringing cases before the Adatel ( the court of G-d)?

The Bible doesn't give a definitive answer, but there are verses that seem to imply some kind of system or structure was set up after either the deluge or the Babel incident.

God in the Bible is a tyrant.

From your perspective yes, but compared to many human kings and dictators I would say no. G-d has a more hands off approach than most national leaders. Satan and the other wardens on the other hand directly interfere in human lives. If you are familiar with the Gnostic Archons, Satan's wardens and agents are virtually identical.

Satan? Are you sure you read any of that bible you are telling others to read? GOD PROSECUTES HUMANITY NOT SATAN. Satan does not hand out judgement, your god does. Satan is not a prosecuter, he is just the jailer. He takes what your god sends him. Knowing what Satan is going to do with them, it hardly resembles anything to the contrary of what you state about Satan to still willingly send them to him. Obviously your god does not like humans or he would not prosecute them and send them off to the worst punishment imaginable.

Satan prosecutes humanity. G-d judges. Thats very clear in the book of Job. To an extent Satan could also be called an executioner, but I don't know where you get the idea of him being a jailer.

Then why does he not just rain fire down on cities and kill whole lots of them? Oh, right, your god does that.

He isn't authorized to do so. I'm sure if given authorization he would do so.

Maybe you just have God and Satan confused?

I think you might have them confused. The Gnostics made a mistake like that.

Out of curiosity, why does your bible say the rift between God and whatever you call Satan began or what was it about?

There isn't any rift with them. The rift is between humanity and G-d.

Funny, I tried to argue the same thing and all I got was the verbal beat-down from a bunch of faux-Christians. Where were you to back me up?

Where was this? I used to have a thread on ATS, where I broke it down verse by verse, word by word about the Serpent and Helel, King of Babylon.

I know its difficult to argue with people who have been brought up on a specific belief structure, even though their holy books contradict what they were taught. They don't like their view of reality disrupted. It confuses them, causing uncertainty and doubt. The biggest issue is that humans don't like to think for themselves. They don't like the responsibility.

I try to not be like that. I examine faiths and philosophies from around the world, searching for archetypes and analogs. There is a syncretic pattern.
I try to go back to the original words and languages to find meaning.

One of the issues that most humans have with any superior being or god and how that being deals with humanity, is that humans think they have some kind of special entitlement or rights. Do fruit flies in a lab have rights? Does a bacterial culture have rights? An even better analogy would be does a Sim, from the game, have rights? Should we give rights to virtual beings? Most people would say no, they arn't real. Humans are in a somewhat comparable situation.

Compared to the powers or archetypes that transcend us, we are virtual. Our world is a mere shadow of theirs.

reply to post by ImaNutter


I apologize if I missed your point.

...in biblical times god was a regular fixture and intervened all the time in our "free will"... but in today's world you are saying its completely a free will thing! wrong millenium for miracles eh?

Most of the Biblical period isn't filled with miracles. The biggest set comes from the period of the Exodus.

In modern times we still have plenty of Forteana and anomalous phenomena.

When I spoke of G-d being merciful, I was explaining He was merciful unlike Satan. In many ways, G-d is more merciful than many human leaders in history.

Humans can do some things that just sicken me at times. Look at what we do to each other, to the planet, and to all life that lives on it. Humans at times act like parasites or an infection. How G-d tolerates us I cannot fathom. The 20th century being the worst example out of our history. How can anyone tolerate human behavior? Turn on the news, look at the world.
Humans are monsters, yet G-d tolerates our existence.

Even if you don't believe in any religion, you have to admit the human species is violent, destructive, manipulating, and corrupt. We do horrible things to ourselves. We do horrible things to our world. That is something undeniable.

reply to post by Matthew Dark


Ok - animals are suffering and dying, people are suffering and dying.

So the whole world sucks. It is really bad.

Guess what, it is the end of the world.

reply to post by Matthew Dark


Having stewardship doesn't mean absolute power over something.

There is nowhere in the Bible that says humanity is given permission to cause the extinction of species or destroy the environment.

A steward has responsibilities, meaning humanity has a responsibility for caring for the world.

I also need to point out that the Hebrew word for man, means all of humanity and its related to the Hebrew word for dirt.

reply to post by catwhoknows


Wait...that's your reply?
That's the best you've got?
What if it's not "the end of the world"?
What if the suffering of humanity is just the status quo?
Wouldn't that be your god's ultimate logistical faux pas?

The suffering of humans is brought on humans, by humans, because humans are stupid.
The suffering of animals is brought on animals, not by other animals, but by humans, because humans are stupid.
That would make it an inherent design flaw by your god...I mean...y'know...if he were real.
So go on, just accept that this is the world and you can make it a better place by praying and hoping someone else will do it for you.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


Dude, don't mince words with me.
Stewardship is a caretaker position; more custodial than anything else.
But your bible specifically says "dominion", as in "domination; absolute sovereignty" also known as "I can treat you however I want because I own your sorry ass".
You're trying to tone down what the actual words are by putting your own spin on the definitions.
Don't bother.
You'll lose.

reply to post by Matthew Dark


I think we agree that humans are stupid.

I disagree that humans cause all suffering. They cause alot on earth, but disease causes suffering. Mutations cause suffering. Invasive species cause suffering. Climate change causes suffering. Disasters cause suffering.

Now one has to ask, "Is suffering really a flaw or is it purposely built into the design?"

Need a Shirt?



The good man doesn't need the feeling of being cool. Only the unloved hate, and without knowing the meaning of what warm light is you will be attracted by the power of violence, fast destruction and sadistic pleasures. And because Raffael wan't your souls, he always tries to buy your integrity. And you know what? He already won this time. Most of us are blind, full of hate, egoistic, unreflected, sadistic, just live to consume trash and the life-goal is fun, fun, fun.

I just don't wanna be cool, cold, at least a frozen sheep, consuming, blind destroying this holly, wonderful planet - killing your brothers and father (god) and motherer (earth). Hows said.

It's such a polarizing time, this will end dramatically, i fear.

But love still exists, maybe 44000 people, hopefully they can hear the Sound when the moment is here. I am ready to go, if this can be a better place in future, it's a honor for me to die for that.

PEACE, AND I REALLY MEAN THAT!
(the cushy crux)