Why does Satan seem cool and God seem like a jerk?

Originally posted by I.C. Weiner
reply to post by Matthew Dark

 

u pretty much said it right there buddy, i can't think of anything else to add that hasn't been said.....wait i got something - has satan ever sent anyone to war, killed anyone (his own son?) or allowed such atrocities to be committed? this is a damn good thread....

Has Satan ever killed anyone?

Wow, people need to pick up a Bible and read.

Satan takes everything from Job and I mean everything, including killing his family. He does it to try to prove a point. He tries to prove that the only reason Job has such great faith in G-d is because G-d had blessed him so much.

John Milton's Paradise Lost and Dante's Inferno have completely brainwashed most people into thinking Satan is something else.

Satan in the Bible is a tyrant. He isn't in hell. He has not fallen. He doesn't like humans. He is compelled to prosecute humanity, which means one thing. He wants humanity exterminated.

This idea of Satan being a rebel is based on assumptions and misconceptions. Two clear misconceptions, the serpent in Eden and Helel king of Babylon. Neither of them are the same as the Satan of Job.

All of this Promethean nonsense is fan fiction.

So Satan has started wars, killed, and even committed atrocities. He doesn't care if we kill each other anymore than if maggots murdered one another.

Satan has spinners on his wheels.
God has bare feet.
Satan has 10k watts of audio power.
God has a blade of grass between his thumbs.
Satan has air conditioning.
God has a creek and a breeze.
Satan has Wii Xbox PS3
God has a path through the woods behind his house and a bike.
Satan has 72" HD Screen and all the networks.
God has a taped scrabble box.

Very interesting thread and comments.

I have a question which relates to a post a couple above this one..

Who did Satan kill?


You state he killed a family. Who else?

I do not subscribe to religion based on a book but didn't God kill entire towns or generations? Children or something?

Does God not prove his points by physically harming humankind? Does Satan do this as well?

Thanks for any insight

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


The way I've seen it portrayed is like this:

God is the father that always seem to find out what you did and punishes you for it, with his hopes you become a better person and learn from the punishment. Satan is like that "cool" adult that gives you beer before your legal and lets you do things your dad wont let you do. Sooner or later you find out the guy could care less about your well-being and just did it for amusement.

*I'm not religious nor is this meant to be a reflection of my beliefs.

Originally posted by ItsAgentScully
reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint

 

The way I've seen it portrayed is like this:

God is the father that always seem to find out what you did and punishes you for it, with his hopes you become a better person and learn from the punishment. Satan is like that "cool" adult that gives you beer before your legal and lets you do things your dad wont let you do. Sooner or later you find out the guy could care less about your well-being and just did it for amusement.

*I'm not religious nor is this meant to be a reflection of my beliefs.

An eternity in hell for simply not learning to grovel to something that is invisible/ possibly mythical. That doesn't sound like a good father, how will make you a better person. Enjoying this thread.

Here's my opinion. Not that it matters.

If you subscribe to basic Christian beliefs, that's cool. If you don't, cool also. But don't make fun of people that believe differently than you. I don't subscribe to the Galactic Federation of Light thing, but if that's what gets you through your day, so be it.

Now, if you understand the basic beliefs but for some reason feel like they are wrong (as in reversed), I guess I would like to know why. It's kind of like saying "I don't believe Frodo was a good guy. Sauron was just trying to help everyone and Frodo threw his nice ring in the lava."

Where do you get that?

reply to post by WickettheRabbit


Obviously the OP seemed to be written with a sense of humor, and I guess your right. In the end people will believe what they want anyway. Though there is much advice in their Holy Book that doesn't make sense. No Christian has ever explained to me satisfactorally.

There does seem to be a bit of wringing turtle doves/pidgeons necks, sprinkling the alter with blood or burning them to make an offering. Stoning people to death. Vengeance. Eternal damnation. That sort of thing. In what is supposedly the word of a loving Father/God...the Bible. If they were written in any other book they might universally be viewed as evil and insane, possibly Satanic. So in many ways the OP seems to make a good point.

jmm.aaa.net.au...

www.allaboutgod.com...

[edit on 23-4-2010 by Cogito, Ergo Sum]

reply to post by Cogito, Ergo Sum


Thats why i said it wasn't a reflection of my beliefs. Personally i would side more with those cast out of heaven. It seems so egotistical, i guess would be the word, to cut out those who don't agree with you and claim they are evil. I don't see Satan and Lucifer as the same being, but for either my opinion is mostly the same.

reply to post by ItsAgentScully


"Personally i would side more with those cast out of heaven."


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, we will make a large population I think.

As the song says. I'd rather laugh with the sinners, than cry with the saints.

Originally posted by Cogito, Ergo Sum
As the song says. I'd rather laugh with the sinners, than cry with the saints.

If there really is a Hell (or Lake of Fire, Sheol, etc.) and I'm not saying there is, what makes you possibly believe it would be a party?

I don't understand. If you really feel like it would be God's ultimate punishment, why would you think you would get to be with others at all?

My assumption if there really is a Hell (in the classic sense). You are alone. Separated from God. Without love. Without mercy.

Why would you believe otherwise?

Originally posted by TXRabbit
Very interesting thread and comments.

I have a question which relates to a post a couple above this one..

Who did Satan kill?


You state he killed a family. Who else?

I do not subscribe to religion based on a book but didn't God kill entire towns or generations? Children or something?

Does God not prove his points by physically harming humankind? Does Satan do this as well?

Thanks for any insight

G-d in the Bible judges cities and decrees plagues, but you have to look at the structure that leads to that.

Satan functions as the chief prosecutor and procurator. This means in the case of Sodom, Satan would have come before G-d and brought a case against Sodom.

G-d then makes a judgement in the case. Sodom was found to be guilty of its charges. At this point, Satan is free to execute the sentence on Sodom. Unlike Satan, G-d is merciful and Abraham debates with G-d over Sodom. Abraham begs G-d to not destroy the city for the sake of the righteous who may dwell there. G-d agrees with this, but only Lot's family are found to not be corrupted. So G-d sends two angels to retrieve Lot and his family before the city is devoured by fire.

If it was up to Satan the city would have been annihilated along with Lot's family.

When you look at it from that perspective, one quickly realizes cases are being brought before G-d constantly. The entire species is on trial.

So yes, Satan makes his cases by death and destruction. In Jobs case, Job could not be killed, but he could be tortured. This applies to the whole species. Then when his point is made he unleashes more death and destruction. Had Job been found guilty, Satan would have been Job's executioner.

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13


Ugh...you again...
People like you, who are so ignorantly judgemental...profess to know what your god wants, and how he thinks. All the while condemning people who subscribe to either much older belief systems, or who may walk another path entirely. You are so willfully ignorant and elitist and hypocritical it's disgusting. You trod around acting like you're so morally superior, like you know the true way and anyone else is some godless heathen who must repent their wicked ways or feel the wrath of your impotent god. You read from a bible written by humans claiming it's the word of your god. Why would your god need a human mouthpiece? If he's all that, why not come down and do his own dirty work? Why have people judge and murder and condemn in his name? It's sickening, how blind some of you are. You make statements about "true followers of the lamb" and "lamb this" and "lamb that"...lambs are, in the traditional sense (not that I'm advocating violence against animals, because I believe that "dominion over animals" is egotistical, egocentric, hurtful, unnecessarily violent and wrong), lambs are good for but two things...standing around doing nothing and being slaughtered. You go on about how your god is so great, yet you're more than likely a meat-eater, so you support factory farming which is the most violent cause of suffering on this planet aside from human war. You're all just a bunch of hypocrites and regardless of how things pan out, we'll all be dead one day. The only real difference is that I walk the path that I choose and you all follow your imaginary friend like so many cows into the slaughterhouse. Some of you have the absolute gall to tell me that I follow your concept of "Satan", without knowing one damn thing about me other than what I post. Pathetic. Bunch of know-nothing, know-it-alls. You speak on your god's behalf like you're some kind of authority that I should cower in front of. Well, I rebel against your ilk, not because it's cool, or hip or fun, but because I ardently refuse to be backed into a corner and told that I'm a product of "evil" sin and unless I fall into line and ignore my very nature and worship some vengeful, bad attitude emo kid, I'm going to spend eternity (the very concept is so vast that I doubt you have any real idea of just how vast eternity is) being tortured. What "loving" god would allow the torture of any of his children, regardless of rebellion or not? That's not love, it's fear-based subjugation. So go on and quote your bible, like it's law and continue to walk your narrow path with blinders on. Meanwhile, I'll be taking a zig-zag path, looking up to enjoy the sun, looking sideways to enjoy my surroundings, smelling flowers, talking with people who have different belief systems and not condemning them, like your kind does.

Oh, and on a side note, I just want you all to know, that I'm directing my 666th post at you...just because I can.


[note: edited because I forgot to insert a word during my passionate diatribe]

[edit on 4/23/10 by Matthew Dark]

reply to post by Matthew Dark


reading through this it just makes me depressed to be human.

THEY ARE ON A SITE ABOUT LOOKING AT DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES AND THEY COMMENT IN THE DEBATE ONLY THROUGH SCRIPTURE.

they say human importance is a sin????????? what the heaven is that?!

i'd rather die than think like these people, because they CANNOT come to any reasoning or even a basic agreement that the book CC OO UU LL DD
BE be slightly wrong about what is evil and what is good.

Well, the real answer is that Judaism and later Christianity borrowed a lot of their key concepts from the Zoroastrians of Babylon, where Abraham is originally from. And the Zoroastrians had this notion of gods representing good and evil, black and white, battling it out for control of the world.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work quite as well if you're going to be monotheistic. If you only have one God, then you can't really have another entity essentially equal in power to God challenging him. So Satan, or the Devil, evolved into a kind of fallen angel or trickster entity that uses trickery to lure people away from doing good.

If you see Satan as a powerful entity that could potentially defeat God, then you're essentially a heathen polytheistic blasphemer. If you're a true believer, then Satan can't do anything without God's permission, so God is essentially responsible for everything Satan does. There's no other way around it.

Unfortunately, a lot of foolish, gullible and lazy people get spoon-fed their ideas about Satan by enthusiastic (but ignorant) preachers who want their money, and who also treat them like children, creating a boogie man out of Satan to scare them into being good. Which never works, by the way, because people are animals, and a lot of what is decried as "bad" is our animal responses that we have no control over. If God really didn't want us to sin, he would have made us out of rocks, not flesh.

Anyway, there is no "God" that anyone can define, and there's no "Satan" either. We create our reality from our own choices, and whether those result in good or bad things depend on your perspective. Because every football game you win, somebody else loses. That's just the way it works.

[edit on 23-4-2010 by Blue Shift]

Thank you for the amusing post OP...S&F for you !!! After reading the many angry replies from the followers of Jesus, I formed the following conclusions:

If there is such thing as "heaven", I know that I am going there when I die because I am a good person. I also know that no "Christians" will be there, because they are complete hypocrites. If any Christians are present in my afterlife, I will know that I have gone to "hell," because I will be stuck suffering their hypocrisy once again.

As Sartre said, "hell is other people." In my "hell," I would be surrounded by Christians.

Originally posted by Northwarden
God is perfect, there is no other perspective from which to accurately begin a sound understanding.

This is where my beef comes into play.

A "perfect" God doesn't throw temper tantrums like a three year old. Going on jealous tirades when his 'creations' don't do what he thought they would.

Anger....jealousy....hatred...any "God" experiencing these emotions is not "perfect", IMO.

But, I'm no theologian....

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

Would you prefer a god that allows no free will, rules as a tyrant, and manages the planet like a prison?

So why are you guys worshipping God then ... ?

You just described planet Earth to a T.... were you trying to make a point or helping me make mine? lol

I don't why anyone ever mentions how the internet is evil apparently. Lucifer gave us knowledge. 'Eat the fruit' said the serpent. 'Why not?'

Why not indeed?

Ok, I might have overlooked if something along these lines was posted, but that is the nature of it when reading through religious debate.

Religion of all types is hosted by man. The only proof of anything is in the level of faith of the individual.
Every tome of faith for every religion has been forged by the flawed human. So, to say that one interpretation of a deity is right or wrong is just another example of the flawed belief system set up by mankind to hold court over the ways and means of a congregation of peoples.

I credit those with the will power to have blind faith, but I do not respect those beliefs being thrust at me like a sword. Obey or be pierced? I think not.

As to the OP and the title, the difference between the accepted God of man and the Downcast Angel is purely perspective.
A God follower (Christian, Islam, Jew, Pentacost, etc) lives by the code that God is light, goodness, purity, absolute, while Satan is evil, tempting, destructive.
Apply the opposite to a Satanist and you will see that God is vengeful, spiteful, and rules with an iron hand, while Satan is respectful, honorable, worthy.

Its all a matter of perspective and teaching. Of course, perspective and teaching are man-based traits passed on from one man to another, so even those are flawed.

reply to post by Matthew Dark



Beautifully put, Matthew.

I find Christian apologists a very hard bunch to debate with. You bring up the amount of people killed by their god and they find all sorts of ways to defend it, no matter how much of a stretch it is.

The other entirely amusing thing, is that I'm fairly certain none of these people live their lives strictly by the laws set down in the Old Testament, in which case, they're all damned by their own beliefs anyway.