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Iran upgrades US-built fighters

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posted on Apr, 23 2010 @ 02:44 AM
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Auf weidersehen. Gute schlaft!

Ich schrieben mit Sie im der morgen, und viellicht in die wolke-ende auch!




posted on Apr, 23 2010 @ 02:52 AM
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What I find fascinating is the basic premise by most Americans that superior technology wins wars.

It certainly did not win in Vietnam, or in Iraq or Afghanistan today.

There is far more to warfare than just blowing things up and killing people.
Something Americans just cannot get their head around.

When the finest military technology is misused by the corrupt fools in Congress, and the White House, it will always end badly.

[edit on 23/4/2010 by Silver Shadow]



posted on Apr, 23 2010 @ 06:43 AM
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reply to post by Truth1000
 


Yes my friend. IF China truly was controlling things then they would have obsconts the vehicles Tech from Iran for it's advanced design.

They Iran, Russia and China were simply hunting for the REAL "Avionics " Specs!


Even drunk and knowing and all that German BS



NO JOY!





posted on Apr, 23 2010 @ 07:03 AM
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[edit on 23-4-2010 by SLAYER69]



posted on Apr, 23 2010 @ 07:13 AM
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This thread does not address ground warfare, nor any protracted conflict, but rather a single air raid.

In a single air raid, superior air defenses and tactical aircraft, along with superior command-and-control, will decide an air battle. Look at the Battle of Britain, which was basically entirely an air campaign. The British had fewer aircraft, but had internal lines of communication, and were using a superior technological breakthrough in the form of an early warning radar shield. That allowed them to use their aircraft most effectively, even though the Me-109 and Spitfires, the primary air superiority fighters, were roughly equivalent to each other.

Think of the Air War of DESERT STORM. The far superior capabilities resulted in marked successes in their sequential tasks: Recon, SEAD (Supression of Enemy Air Defenses), disruption of enemy C&C (Command & Control), tactical area Air Superiority, strategic Air Superiority, and finally Air Supremacy.

We successfully found their airfields, AAA, SAMs, radar sites, and C&C locations, and in the first week took them out. We successfully destroyed their ability to disrupt our air attacks, and because of the success of the earlier steps, achieved Air Supremacy within the first ten days of the conflict. And we did so in the most impressive display of Airpower since the Arab-Israeli Six Day War.



posted on Apr, 23 2010 @ 02:49 PM
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Iran has replaced the radar, and engines originally used by the Tomcat, with parts made in-country. They have had years to reverse engineer the parts they needed, so no one should be surprised that they have been able to repair them and keep them flying. They have approximately 20 of the original 44 remaining.


Iran has overhauled and modernized its warplanes, including the “sophisticated” F-14 Tomcat fighter jets, an Iranian military official said on Tuesday.

Air Force Deputy Commander General Aziz Nasirzadeh said in an interview with the FNA news agency that indigenous radars and new engines were installed on F-14 Tomcat jets, developed in the 1970s.

He said that although most airplanes had “old designs,” all of their components, “including systems and parts, are being optimized and upgraded on a regular basis.”

www.trdefence.com...



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 03:09 AM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by toreishi
 


The Tomcat has been around for decades. It has been sold to many countries. I'm sure some Arms dealer out there has some parts.


As far as the sophisticated F-14. I'll miss. But I'm sure an F-22 wont


Actually that is nor correct. The IIRAF was the only export customer ever to sign up for the F-14, which makes the comment in the article the OP linked to about the US banning sales of F-14 spares all the more odd, nobody BUT Iran would want them


I see that others such as truth1000 have also covered this point very well


Rather than what we would call an upgrade, I would guess that 99% of this 'back engineering' effort is directed into simply keeping these aircraft operational. Which is still a pretty decent effort by a country with zero historical aerospace or engineering background.

There was a thread some time ago about' Iran's first indigenous fighter' design, this was nothing more than a back engineered F-5.

There were also moves to put a version of the 'MiG 33' into production which was in actuality not a fighter, but a direct equivalent to the Alenia M346/Yak 140 LIFT.

Its a pretty adventurous programme for Iran, but nothing has been heard publicly for about the last three years on this one.



[edit on 24-4-2010 by waynos]



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 05:05 PM
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Dont underestimate the Tomcat, the F14 is an excellent AA platform. Sure it aint stealthy but it offered very good performance. It pretty much beats the F15 even when equipped with the TF30 engines, the F14D with proper engines would spank the F15 in a AA engagement. An F14 can turn just as fast as an F16, just its rate of roll is lower.



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 05:24 PM
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Irans tomcats were the last of the A model so they have the proper engines.



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by toreishi
 


The f-14 and it's radar was built around the AIM-54 Phoenix weapons system as a stand off fleet defender. In dogfights it has proven to be much more nimble and agile than first thought. However , when parts dried up for Iran their engineers were actively looking for ways to remove and replace systems with russian and chinese parts that were far more available. It is unclear since then if, or how much this has been successful. Always remember though it isn't necessarily the plane that wins the battle more than the experience of the pilot at the helm.



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 05:49 PM
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From what i've red they still fly about 20 with their own spare parts, what is interesting is what kind of AA missiles they have.

TL-10
TL-6
C-704
C-701
AGM-62 Walleye
AGM-65 Maverick
AGM-45 Shrike
AGM-78 Standard
BGM-71 TOW

I am more curious about their own Shafaq project, combining the F14 and F5 technology with their russian Sukhoi's, also..whatever happened with CHavez promise to sell a bunch of F16's to Iran? [while CHavez would replace them by SU-30 or so]

[edit on 26-4-2010 by Foppezao]



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 05:57 PM
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I remember the video's of the F14's being destroyed in a shredder. Because the landing gear was designed for rough landings on the carriers, everything was crushed inside the shredder but impossible to hurt the landing gear..I guess that was quiet emotional to see for the Tomcat pilots, one of the most elegant planes made last century..

[edit on 26-4-2010 by Foppezao]



posted on Apr, 26 2010 @ 06:12 PM
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reply to post by Foppezao
 


It WAS quite an elegant bird. I just wonder how compatible U.S. munitions are with makeshift fire control systems?



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 08:04 AM
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Hi Zaphod,


Originally posted by Zaphod58
Iran has replaced the radar, and engines originally used by the Tomcat, with parts made in-country. They have had years to reverse engineer the parts they needed, so no one should be surprised that they have been able to repair them and keep them flying.


You have the info on the replacement of all radar systems on good authority or is it more likely a case of them replacing it in those aircraft they could not keep the original functional?( Edit: Just noticed the source says as much but yes, that source don't help me much) Either way while i agree with the reverse engineering they only had to do so much of it because they were, as i heard, supplied with copious volumes of engineering specifications, as well as a sizable volume of critical spares, in the original deal. Why that should have happened i don't know but either way the 'reverse engineering' thing goes only so far and recreating the manufacturing techniques are often impossible to copy even with detailed specifications.



They have approximately 20 of the original 44 remaining.


As you may have forgotten, your not getting younger (
), they in fact received 79 as far as the official ( as best we know) line goes and of that the sources i have pointed to suggests a number of between 40 and 50 as operational.


He said that although most airplanes had “old designs,” all of their components, “including systems and parts, are being optimized and upgraded on a regular basis.”[/
www.trdefence.com...


Yes but that's the sort of claim those in the military often makes about their systems......

Some earlier discussions on this very topic.....

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...


I also want to point out that while the F-14's in Iranian service remains very potent individual platforms they will not as far as i know be able to respond to the overwhelming USAF stand off jamming and general ECM capabilities. In that sort of environment a F-14 is about as useful as the Phantoms and other western aircraft they operate so F-14's will probably be kept well back in support of the Tehran and other vital cities air defenses to try and deal with penetration strikes that are not well enough supported. Either way it will just be a question of time, and probably not much at that, until the F-14's run out of a single engine support screen so i am very glad i am not tasked with trying to defend Iranian airspace against a NATO sized threat.

Regards,

Stellar




[edit on 27-4-2010 by StellarX]



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 05:10 PM
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if the have any aim 54s left the f-14s can sit back and snipe the western planes.

The F-14 was the sniper of the skies



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 05:28 PM
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Top speed:
F14: Mach 2.3+
F15: Mach 2.5 / 1.2 (high / low altitude)
F16: Mach 1.2+
F18: Mach 1.8
F22: Mach 2.25

More agile than an F-15, though not as fast.
Faster than an F-16 and more agile.
As fast as an F-22... but burns more fuel, and has a higher radar cross-section.
It's a hands-down better performer than the F/A-18, which was based on F-5 tech with a lot of insight from the F-14's design, but the F-14 could not be cost-effectively upgraded to the latest avionics and weapons control systems.

Not bad for 70's tech.

It's downfall was caused by the advancing weapons tech and its high fuel consumption.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 05:30 PM
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It isn't even just the F-14 versus the F-15. There's also the AWACS and J Stars, the AAMRAM, and the difference between the technological advances of the U.S. and Iran.

All of the advantages would be to the U.S., even if it were an Iranian F-15C versus an American F-15C.



posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 03:16 AM
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Originally posted by abecedarian

It's downfall was caused by the advancing weapons tech and its high fuel consumption.


Neither of those were its downfall, as advancing systems can be integrated onto any airframe.

The F-14 was removed from service because of the high cost (in money and man hours) of maintenance that the swing wing mechanism required, and the fact that the entire F-14 fleet suffered from fatigue cracks in the center wing box.

Now, the Super Hornet also suffered from fatigue cracking, but as it was still in production it was easier to fix, so it was kept in service. But the F-14 would have needed new manufacturing to replace the wing boxes, and considerable down time, so they were retired.



posted on Apr, 30 2010 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by StellarX
I also want to point out that while the F-14's in Iranian service remains very potent individual platforms they will not as far as i know be able to respond to the overwhelming USAF stand off jamming and general ECM capabilities. In that sort of environment a F-14 is about as useful as the Phantoms and other western aircraft they operate so F-14's will probably be kept well back in support of the Tehran and other vital cities air defenses to try and deal with penetration strikes that are not well enough supported. Either way it will just be a question of time, and probably not much at that, until the F-14's run out of a single engine support screen so i am very glad i am not tasked with trying to defend Iranian airspace against a NATO sized threat.


I'm only able to be online an hour or so, every few days at a library right now, so I can't always get caught up on everything, but I thought that I'd comment on this point about the USAF jamming. I have heard other sources about there being 40-50 operational as well, but was just going on what I found that particular day, as I was in a rush.

As for the USAF stand off jamming and ECM programs, WHAT programs? The only USAF jamming program that currently exists is the EC/MC-130s. Both the original and revamped B-52SOJ programs have been killed, and the only dedicated jamming platform besides the -130s flown by the USAF are EA-6Bs owned by the USN. After the F-4G and EF-111s were retired in the early 1990s the USAF lost all their dedicated jamming platforms besides the -130s.



posted on May, 1 2010 @ 12:19 PM
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Hi Zaphod,


Originally posted by Zaphod58
I'm only able to be online an hour or so, every few days at a library right now, so I can't always get caught up on everything, but I thought that I'd comment on this point about the USAF jamming. I have heard other sources about there being 40-50 operational as well, but was just going on what I found that particular day, as I was in a rush.


Sorry to hear about your lack of access as it certainly slows down the discussion! The 40 + number is not something i could , or would seriously try, defend but as i understand the Iranians have done their utmost for a long time and have managed to keep half serviceable; if these planes could stand high operational tempo's and fly to anything like their original envelopes i simple do not know. What is perhaps more interesting is that they have been observed flying with Phoenix missiles ( or something that looks very much like it) in the last few years...


As for the USAF stand off jamming and ECM programs, WHAT programs? The only USAF jamming program that currently exists is the EC/MC-130s. Both the original and revamped B-52SOJ programs have been killed, and the only dedicated jamming platform besides the -130s flown by the USAF are EA-6Bs owned by the USN. After the F-4G and EF-111s were retired in the early 1990s the USAF lost all their dedicated jamming platforms besides the -130s.


Yes, after the air war against Iraq at the start of the 90's they really dug their knife deep into these programs with at least partially predictable results against Yugoslavia. My attempted point was basically that even with the limitations imposed by the serious cuts ( into such a vital arm, but since they decommission the peacekeepers the apparent goal seems to discourage peace. ) the means still remains to severely limit the long range interdiction capability those F-14's might pose.

Regards,

Stellar




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