Boy, 8, died of kidney failure after 'neglectful' ambulance service refused to send ambulance to 9

Originally posted by Mirthful Me

Originally posted by hippomchippo
Perhaps because of transportation issues? There are many reasons, I just don't see why you need to bring in socialism when the problem here is the response given by the ambulance service, it's despicable that you're using this childs death to insult a socialist health care, when the problem is clearly neglect by PEOPLE running the ambulance.

There is no mention of transportation issues. The reason I brought the failure that is socialized medicine into the discussion is that I have been assured by Obama, Pelosi, reed, and every liberal pundit that all we need is socialized medicine and the world will be perfect. It's a sham. In the real world with private payers, this would not have happened. You call an ambulance, you get an ambulance. You go to the ER, you are triaged by a real human being right there in front of you... Not some ridiculous over the phone farce.

The people of the UK should be outraged over how they are being mistreated... You can bet their US counterparts will when they finally realize what kind of bargin they struck with the Devil... Unfortunately it will be too late...

Ofcourse there's no mention of transportation issues, this article is about the ambulance failing to give help, not why the parents of the kid didn't take him to the hospital frequently.

Originally posted by habfan1968
reply to post by hippomchippo

 

No the issue is not really with the service providers, it really is with the parents of the child. The article clearly states the boy began to rapidly deteriorate on the weekend before they called for some help. But for example if the call sounded anything like this 911: "911 please state your emergency" Caller" umm my son is sick, very sick we need some help" 911" o.k can you describe the sickness,is there any blood.?" caller" no blood no but he has been having headaches and been very tired , we have kept him home from school all week because of it." 911"has he seen the doctor?" caller" no we don't have insurance" 911" no problem, health care is free here, is this really an emergency or can you take him to the doctor's office?" caller"yes we could take him but we don't have a car" 911" it does not sound like you need an ambulance but I will transfer you to Urgent Care and they will help you ok?" caller "ok thank you"

Yes, the overall fault is with the parents, not socialized healthcare.

[edit on 22-4-2010 by hippomchippo]

...this is old news... the boy died due to neglect but (unlike what the dailynut article claims) not from the medical establishment... his mother ignored his deteriorating health... why?... only she knows... maybe she's mentally deficient or maybe she just didnt give a damn until after the kid died and an ambulance chaser convinced her to lay all the blame on others... she didnt even call for an ambulance herself... a family friend did and if that man hadnt showed up and seen what bad shape the boy was in, the boy wouldve died at home...

reply to post by Wyn Hawks


Thank you. Your post clears it up relatively well. Nothing to do with socialized medicine. Again, sad that people would use a tragedy such as this to further their political views.

reply to post by Mirthful Me


Mirthful Me.....

It's a shame such poor decisions were made in this instance, when such fantastic advances are being made in this area.

I hope someone is held acountable for such poor decision making.

Your thread prompted me to start this thread about a new technology that could have saved someone such as this poor boy:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

Hmm nothing wrong with our nhs the problem lies with the parents. The ambulance service does not have any telepathic skills nor do the people operating the 999 calls. Too many people abuse the 999 system calling for an ambulance or other things for all the wrong reasons so how do the people running the emergency services respond? They have guidelines and they have to determine if its an emergency. The people operating the 999 services are not nurses or doctors and therefore cannot tell how serious a call is till they run through their checklist.
The parents should have called an emergency doctor to come out for a house call and check on the child not ring for an ambulance. The doctor would then himself would ring and call for an ambulance.

Has my toddler got diabetes?

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I agree that you should visit your son's GP to check for diabetes.

Even though he may turn out to be passing a lot of urine for other reasons such as a urinary infection, it is important not to miss conditions such as diabetes and urine infections.

You mention that your son craves sweet drinks. This is not a symptom of diabetes and diabetes is not directly caused by eating too much sugar.

The problem in diabetes is that the pancreas, a gland which lies near the stomach, does not produce enough insulin.

Insulin is a hormone which breaks down the body's fuel, glucose, allowing it to be used as energy, to repair body tissues or to be stored in the liver.

If there is no insulin the glucose stays in the bloodstream until it reaches the kidneys when it passes out of the body in the urine.

Glucose carries water with it and if it is passing through the kidneys it will make them pass a lot of urine which in turn makes the child very thirsty.

If your son was diabetic his body would not be able to hold onto glucose and would break down his fat stores to provide enough energy. This would make him lose weight and would make him eat more.

The symptoms of diabetes are therefore excessive thirst, passing lots of urine (which can cause bedwetting in children), eating a lot but fail to gain weight or losing weight and passing glucose in the urine.

If by any chance your son was diabetic it would need to be detected early on otherwise it could make him very sleepy and tired, eventually causing a coma which would require urgent hospital admission for treatment.

When you take your son to his GP take a sample of his urine with you so that it can be tested with a dipstick to see if it contains glucose. The GP can also do a finger prick test to get an immediate reading of the level of glucose in your son's blood.

If he has diabetes he will have too much glucose in his blood and probably some glucose in his urine. His GP will arrange for him to go to the local hospital where the paediatric doctors and nurses do further tests to confirm he has diabetes.

They will then treat him with insulin injections, usually twice a day, to lower the glucose in his blood. If he has been unwell for a while or is tired or sleepy he may extra fluid, either by mouth or through a drip into the veins in his arm.

The medical staff will explain his longer term treatment. He will need to avoid overloading his system with sudden surges of glucose. This means not eating sweets or chocolate and controlling how much carbohydrate he eats (e.g. potatoes and bread).

Otherwise he will be able to eat the same things as anyone else. In fact a diabetic diet is extra healthy, low in fat, high in fibre and with no sugar.

It is amazing how quickly young children adapt to both the diet and to having injections of insulin.

Indeed, if your son did turn out to be diabetic at such a young age he would grow up accepting injections as part of his daily routine. By the time he was five or six he might well be doing the injections himself.

If your son's tests show he does not have diabetes it is still worth checking his urine for infection as this could be making him pass a lot of urine. His GP can send a sample to the hospital to be checked.

If it is infected he will need a course of antibiotics to clear it and the hospital paediatrician will see him afterwards in clinic to check his kidneys and urinary tract are normal.

For further information about childhood diabetes contact Diabetes UK on www.diabetes.org.uk

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...

[edit on 22-4-2010 by loner007]

Ok first you Americans really need to worry about the standard of you own medical knowledge before you start worrying about your health care system. God help most of you if you had a child with diabetes.

The most important thing given the circumstance is Louis would have had TYPE 1 diabetes . This is an auto immune disorder that is not caused by lifestyle and diet (to spell it out to the hard of thinking, no you do not get diabetes because you ate too much sugar) it's the body attacking its own insulin producing beta cells and it can not be prevented or cured at present. This poor child and his parents could have done nothing to stop him getting diabetes. Yes kidney damage can take years to develop in a person with diabetes but this little boy was most likely suffering from a complication of diabetes called DKA or Diabetic ketoacidosis (a large percent of type 1 diabetics don't get diagnosed until the go into DKA/ a diabetic coma) which can and did wreck his kidneys. US children die of undiagnosed diabetes as well so don't blame the tragedy on uk health care, mistakes and bad medical staff happen everywhere.

In defence of the NHS as a person with type 1 diabetes it keeps me alive. I get to chose along with doctors not insurance men the best medication for me. I can chose a job because it's the job I want, not because it offers the only insurance policy that will cover me. Oh and I can still chose private healthcare if I want. To blame the NHS as a whole instead of incompetent medical staff is ridiculous. I’ve never known a doctor that would deliberately turn away an ill diabetic child. In fact all the health care professionals I have seen go to great lengths to stress the importance of contracting a doctor if I become ill.

It’s really sickening to see the blame for this boys death being held with the parents. As the general knowledge of diabetes is so poor on this forum I don't think many people here would have spotted the signs either. If you do not know that you child has diabetes it is very easy to mistake the symptoms of DKA as a virus or stomach flu . Unfortunately, once it progresses it can be fatal within hours That said it is unforgivable that medical professionals did not spot this condition since type 1 diabetes is one of the most common childhood chronic conditions.

Last thing if Louis Austins parents ever read this I'm so sorry your beautiful child is being made a scapegoat for "socialized" medical care. Your little boy is worth more than that’ I hope you find peace and justice.

This whole case should serve as a reminder that diabetes is not just a disease of the obese and elderly. It effects young children through no fault of their own. It needs to be taken seriously and it can kill.

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
Another score for socialized medicine.

Yup, that's right. All the fault of socialised medicine.

No, nothing to do with lazy, effete staff or poorly trained, mis-managed dispatching protocols or parents who for some bizarre reason didn't take their son to A&E. Nope. This sort of thing NEVER happens in private care or other public institutions.

Socialised medicine, on a whole, is unequivocally resposable.





[edit on 23-4-2010 by noonebutme]

reply to post by davidmingingcamron


Thanks for making my point form me...

For the past several years the American public has been inundated, assailed and otherwise pummeled with the tragedy that "millions" are suffering due to a lack of a single payer system. With said single payer system, all the little children would be able to go to the doctor for free, the doctors would be able to treat them, and those little children would grow up big and strong... Except for the fact that it's a complete fabrication designed not for some noble cause above reproach, but for the systematic enslavement of a people.

This child could have been taken at any time to a healthcare provider, been assessed and treated... Why wouldn't that happen? I have been assured by these pillars of personal freedom and integrity that socialized medicine will cure all ills, reduce the deficit and leave my breath minty fresh...

Type 1 diabetes is a chronic condition that is easily diagnosed by a healthcare professional unless the system denies access to said healthcare professional.

Originally posted by noonebutme
No, nothing to do with lazy, effete staff or poorly trained, mis-managed dispatching protocols or parents who for some bizarre reason didn't take their son to A&E. Nope. This sort of thing NEVER happens in private care or other public institutions.

I would suggest that the failure in this case was a direct result from a socialized single payer system... This would not have occurred in the US under our current system... If you call 911 with a medical emergency, you get a first responder, who would have transported the child to a healthcare facility where the child would be triaged by a doctor who was actually in the same room as the patient... It's an archaic system... But it works wonders...

reply to post by Mirthful Me


So you're saying there's no instances of similar deficiencies whereby someone dials 911 asking for help and no help is given?

Things like this and this don't happen in the US system, right ?

I could cherry pick instances where the US 911 emergency system fails over and over. A simple Google of "911 unanswered died" gives a good few links.

I don't think this has anything to do with socialised medicine. Just typical American ignorance of the world outside their borders.

Bottom line - *no* system is infallible and when humans are involved, there is always the potential for mistake, either genuine or careless.



[edit on 23-4-2010 by noonebutme]

I don't see this as anything to do with socialized medicine, just an incompetent dispatcher.

I'll take the UK's healthcare system over ours any day of the week and twice on Tuesdays.

If you want an American corollary, we know of someone whose child had pneumonia - they were told by their health insurer that if they took him to the ER before consulting with their 24 hour nurse over the phone, they would be liable for ALL bills, regardless of the final diagnosis.

America - the only country that trys to make a buck out of sick people.

The only thing more shameful than the current system, are the soulless morons who defend it.