ADL releases Report Similar to SPLC

Originally posted by boondock-saint
reply to post by nenothtu

 

yes please make contact
and have them send me
a u2u

thanks

'Tis done. I'll have them run it up the flag pole, see how much wind they have. We'll keep it at this level until input is received from SO and any other aggrieved members who want to participate have a chance to input their preferences. I wouldn't want to presume to speak for them in the matter, and they may have different notions.

For the record, although I'm not familiar with all the sites mentioned in the report, several members at ARFcom are prior-service, and so have been doubly-slandered, what with this following the heels of last year's MIAC report labelling returning vets as "dangerous extremists". They appear to be a fairly solid, close knit bunch, and the NC board has regular get-togethers not all that far from you.

reply to post by nenothtu


once again thank you for the spearhead
look forward to it

Originally posted by boondock-saint
reply to post by nenothtu

 

once again thank you for the spearhead
look forward to it

You're welcome. I'll do what I can assuming there isn't opposition from the other aggrieved parties in creating a coalition of sorts.

This isn't about free speech, this is about understanding the minds of those who are practicing free speech. There is no laws against that.

You can say whatever stupid thing you wish, but be aware that people will judge you by your words, and put you into a category.

I might consider never returning to ATS again because I don't want to be put in the same category as unintelligent conspiracy driven extremists who think violence solves anything. Most of you are loose canons who allow any conspiracy, true or false, to set you off. It's alarming, and I don't blame Law Enforcement for paying attention to it.

I saw this coming from a mile away. You people dig yourself into holes, and then pull everyone around you into it, including ATS.

I'm ashamed by some ATS members actually... I thought ATS was above violence.

It's just more fear mongering in order to get some publicity and money.The ADL and SPL need boogie men and patroit and alternative news sites are good targets.

reply to post by mike dangerously


No they don't need targets, some of you make yourself the targets on your own by talking about acts of violence. Then you are real targets, not fake made up targets. Don't you see the irony?

I urge everyone not to allow themselves to get baited.

This conversation is too important ...

[edit on 22 Apr 2010 by schrodingers dog]

Originally posted by Thrice0ne
I might consider never returning to ATS again because I don't want to be put in the same category as unintelligent conspiracy driven extremists who think violence solves anything...

I saw this coming from a mile away. You people dig yourself into holes, and then pull everyone around you into it, including ATS.

I'm ashamed by some ATS members actually... I thought ATS was above violence.

It's hard to imagine that you have spent any time at all reading through the forums and have honestly come to that conclusion. We don't even agree to the facts surrounding our nations political discourse, much less support violence to exact change.

If citizens - including ATS - can't freely express our exasperation and concern about the state of our Republic, then it's long dead and our opinions don't matter anyway.

The real question in my mind is not doubt about my fellow ATS members or whether or not posting on ATS is wise but the real question is why the ADL is lumping ATS in with the other forums mentioned? In my mind, they are vastly different in intellectual inquiry and purpose and so are the comments by comparison.

Additionally, by what authority does the ADL get to define extremism and counsel Law Enforcement in that regard?

reply to post by Thrice0ne


Thanks for your input. You won't silence me either.

The fact is, this IS about free speech. The report had nothing to do with 'understanding' minds, it had everything to do with INFLUENCING minds, and silencing opposition.

Furthermore, there is no law against saying 'stupid' things, either, and I can't help, nor would I if I could, what YOU consider to be 'stupid'. You have the right to your own opinion, same as I do, or anyone else. Neither do I care to influence who you choose to associate with.

Of course people judge us by our words. That's the reason I bother to expound my ideas to begin with! You are no different, since likewise you will be known by your own verbal output. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Isn't that sort of the idea of freedom to begin with? I reckon that might be why the First Amendment comes FIRST! Without the free exchange of ideas, and vigorous debate, all the rest sort of become moot, don't they?

I take umbrage at the label of "unintelligent conspiracy driven extremists" which is sort of the heart of this thread, now isn't it? I guess, by your own words, it will be perfectly permissible for me to label YOU as such, and whine to the government that they better 'have you watched for the good of society' when the shoe is on the other foot - right? You won't have a problem with that, now will you?

Through history, violence has solved a number of things. It's probably not the correct answer in this case, but it may come to us all, correct or not. Part of that problem will be folks such as yourself, who try to sweep dissenting opinion under the rug. That just tends to irritate those of a violent bent, when they perceive themselves to be ignored and minimized. Eventually, they WILL insist on being heard, one way or another, and it's attitudes such as yours that tend to push the issues into action.

The rest of your post smacks of abject fear. Just as you are ashamed of those who would insist on their rights, I am ashamed of those who fear to do so.

I'm guessing we won't ever be holding this discussion over a friendly brew, eh?

I think everyone is missing something here - Boondock, why worry about a lawsuit right now? As far as we know all they have is an alias quoting a line from a movie in a PDF document that anyone on the internet can see.

What you need to find out from Skeptic, in my opinion, is if there have been any requests or demands to release your real name and/or information by government agencies or individuals recently.

If there has been, then you need to know if any of that information was released. And then act accordingly.

Originally posted by sos37

What you need to find out from Skeptic, in my opinion, is if there have been any requests or demands to release your real name and/or information by government agencies or individuals recently.

If there has been, then you need to know if any of that information was released. And then act accordingly.

If it were the subject of a 'National Security Letter', SO and the site would be barred by statue from affirming or denying whether the were served with such letter or not.

However, if they WEREN'T served, then there's nothing to bar a denial, is there?

Originally posted by Thrice0ne
reply to post by mike dangerously

 

No they don't need targets, some of you make yourself the targets on your own by talking about acts of violence. Then you are real targets, not fake made up targets. Don't you see the irony?

Dude, there is a whopping big difference between talking about violence and inciting violence. While I've seen many posts talking about violence and some off the cuff remarks made, I've not seen anyone actually trying to incite violent acts from this site.

You remember the site's motto - deny ignorance? This site is about finding truth and enlightenment, not about conspiring to do harm. We all came here because something out of the ordinary piqued our interests and we wanted to know more. We stay here because we like discussing the issues and news, even debating with our fellow members.

You need to remember that before you go all Joseph McCarthy on us.

reply to post by nenothtu


This is NOT about freedom of speech. They are never going to ever take away your freedom of speech. This is about extremists who are talking about killing or hurting others because of stupid conspiracies surrounding health care and other issues, which is "stupid". You can talk about it all you want, go for it, but keep in mind there are people who are listening to you and preparing for what you say.

You would have to be a complete moron to not understand that hinting at killing people anywhere, especially on the internet, is completely unacceptable, and will make you look like a potential murderer.

You can not blame the government for wanting to keep tabs of potential murderers, and what conspiracies motivate them.

[edit on 22-4-2010 by Thrice0ne]

I wish the government would pay me to read all the conspiracy forums. At least I would get some of my tax money back that the government stole from me.

I hope there is a higher power if no other reason so that when the inevitable happens to each and every person and we all have to review our lives and be judged these people get to face the monumental shame of selling out the free speech and freedom of their fellow human beings for some government funding that the very people who they sold out paid for.

Post that in your report ADL. A**holes.

[edit on 22-4-2010 by Anonymous Avatar]

How utterly pathetic! What is the purpose in the ADL doing this exactly? I feel almost embarrassed for them that this is how they are spending their time. No one on here should feel the need to apologize for the posts they made!

well, I wasnt gonna post on this, but its been nagging me because I think people have very different POV's about what this means. Think, for a second, about ALLLL the crap your mad about...ok, now, imagine what terrible scrutiny you fall under if you are publicly outed like that (I just got done reading the whole thing and WOW, some people are SUPER PISST!) If those are real comments and not some elitist propaganda, all I can say is ::gulp:: its worse than I thought (well, a little). I want to put this one point out there from that report:

quote from ADL report pdf, first page:

“If you’re an ELECTED REPRESENTATIVE and the people who elected you to represent them want to beat, maim, or kill you based on what you’re doing as their representative, what the f--k does that tell you about your fulfillment of your job mandate?” Post by “Frost 7” on the AR-15 Forums, March 25, 2010.

I mean think about what the hell is going on right now:

they are not only performing poorly at the tasks they aspired to take on, but in such a truly nefarious and deviant manner, that people want to >physically harm them< - AND they KNOW the reasons why people want to harm them, and they CONTINUE to behave in the SAME MANNER.

THINK ABOUT THAT^

now, consider, that if you speak out and flex this so-called "freedom of speech", you are more or less "targeted" in some Orwellian fashion. What was the guy that Winston Smith said that big brother was always denouncing for his numerous alleged crimes against the state?

Now, on to this aspect (and this is the REAL kicker):
Aside from fueling drama on chat threads and maybe some fodder for msm (OR possibly the "black bag" treatment, cause Im sure thats probably S.O.P. by now), no one is ever going to do anything to stop ALL/ANY of it. PERIOD. Now, before all you keyboard commandos start telling me how many grenades you'll dive on in the name of freedom, or how you and Jesus and your military training are gonna take up arms and sing the battle hymn of the republic while refreshing the tree of liberty..just hear me out-

its like that old addage about how "they came and took so and so, but I was not affiliated, so I did nothing, then they came and took me- and there was nobody left to save me." (

reply to post by Thrice0ne


Of course it's about Freedom of Speech! Your correct about one thing - I believe they recognize the danger of just trying to take it away, so that will be a ways down the road, once they have all of us as tamed as they have you. In the interim, it appears they would try to force us into self-censorship, apparently through peer-pressures.

That just ain't gonna work in all cases. The harder they try, the rougher it'll get, as I said above.

That 'getting prepared for it' assertion? Surely you realize that's not an exclusively governmental provenance. There's plenty around the internet to indicate otherwise. That evidently has you shaking in your boots, since you appear not to realize that not all preparation involves preparation for violent confrontation. Governmental responses, however, going by their recent track records, tend to lean towards the violent.

That sir, is not a exclusively civilian provenance.

I'll not return the favor of insinuating that you're a 'complete moron'. Instead, I'll point out that it appears that you've not read all of the relevant material. That doesn't make you a moron, it merely makes you uninformed on this subject.

We'll save the discussion of what legally constitutes a 'murder' for another time. It really has no bearing here, in THIS thread, and I suspect that you haven't educated yourself in that matter, either.

Remember, abject fear is bad for the heart, and leads to all sorts of wild and unfounded suppositions.

Like the subject of this thread.

Originally posted by nenothtu
reply to post by Thrice0ne

 

Through history, violence has solved a number of things. It's probably not the correct answer in this case, but it may come to us all, correct or not. Part of that problem will be folks such as yourself, who try to sweep dissenting opinion under the rug. That just tends to irritate those of a violent bent, when they perceive themselves to be ignored and minimized. Eventually, they WILL insist on being heard, one way or another, and it's attitudes such as yours that tend to push the issues into action.

i am glad the concept of using the threat of violence as a tool of intimidation isn't always successful. god forbid those prone to violence are irritated if they are ignored and minimized. but because they use violence when they don't get their way, everybody else better back the heck off? no. what do non-violent people get when they're irritated? oh, nothing. might makes right, huh? this goes both ways. and that's kinda the point.

of course, this report is stupid, these guys (ATSers) did nothing wrong (though i disagree with them 99% of the time and strongly) and this is much ado about nothing. except it is unfortunate that one can't avoid being put in a report for pedestrian behavior, mislabeled or even maligned. but this is the internet and these groups have the freedom to quote anonymous stuff from web forums ... i think. fortunately we can hide behind our names. and if they look us up and hunt us down, well, we're screwed anyhow if it gets to that point.

just bothers me that boondock-saint or any of the others would feel intimidated or fearful for one second. i really hope you don't because you don't need to and you shouldn't. you did nothing wrong.

Originally posted by nenothtu
reply to post by Thrice0ne

 

Of course it's about Freedom of Speech! Your correct about one thing - I believe they recognize the danger of just trying to take it away, so that will be a ways down the road, once they have all of us as tamed as they have you. In the interim, it appears they would try to force us into self-censorship, apparently through peer-pressures.

Seriously, for one moment, SNAP OUT OF YOUR CONSPIRACY MINDSET!

Words like, "I believe they recognize the danger", and "like they have you", and "it appears they would try to force us"....etc.... FORGET ABOUT THAT!

For one second, view reality how you think "sheeple" would view it.

Now look at yourself from that point of view. There is no "they". You are imagining all these conspiracies about a group of people out to get you. "They" don't exist. There is only law enforcement who are die hard in trying to stop murderers.

Do you see it now?

Do you get my point?

Stop judging me and thinking I'm controlled by someone just because I have the ability to see the problems that are being pointed out in the ADL report.

I understand all of your concerns about freedom of speech, I really do. This isn't about that! That is a conspiracy. This is about idiots on the internet making threats!


[edit on 22-4-2010 by Thrice0ne]