ADL releases Report Similar to SPLC

Originally posted by djvexd
If SO gives you the go ahead I will stand as a character witness in the deposition , although I am in FLA. Need me U2U me. This shall not stand.

I appreciate that gesture dj
however I don't think that would fly
in a court of law. Character witnesses
only work when you've known them personally
for a long time. And the only time you see
me is when we're on the forum. But I do
appreciate ur offer.

I hope to get a u2u from SO
if he's reading this thread

And thanks to all for ur support in this matter.

Another thing came to mind is this::::

Right now, I'm just on the watch list.
If I pursue this, I could be on the hit list.

reply to post by boondock-saint


Actually in the age of internet personally is subjective....Offer still stands my friend.

reply to post by schrodinger's dog


I disagree and I dont want a witch hunt but I want posters to understand they might be baiting and trolling for comments.



It is what it is the proof is in the pudding. We and ATS management need to see the truth for what it is.


Like it or not ATS just changed and hopefully this is a bogus report but if it is legit.



All poster should keep it honest and peaceful at all times and look at what context you could be taken in. This is sound advice.

[edit on 22-4-2010 by Subjective Truth]

[edit on 22-4-2010 by Subjective Truth]

reply to post by Subjective Truth


Some of the soundest advice I have heard in a while my friend. It is one thing to speak your mind...tis another to tip-toe over the line to being noticed for not good reasons.

Originally posted by Subjective Truth

We will always be looking over our backs and wondering form this day forward.

Sir, I admire your calls for reason and restraint. Be that as it may, I myself must examine my motivations for such. Fear of governmental reprisal will never be one of those motivations.

At times, I post with flamboyant exuberance, and at others with remarkable (for me) restraint. The precise means will ever match the tenor at hand, and will not be influenced by fear of reprisal.

In no case will I spend my days watching over my shoulder. When they run me to ground, they will have earned their pay.

In short, 'they' will not change my mind, and I see no reason for me to allow them the power of dictating how I express it. That's just too much power to allow another over one's self.

I'm not gonna let the terrorists win

Also, consider the possibility that I may at times be intentionally drawing fire... militarily, that would correspond to 'recon by fire'. For what purpose, I'd just leave to the imagination.

Special note to TPTB: Don't ya just HATE when things get all twisted up like that?

Originally posted by djvexd
reply to post by Subjective Truth

 

Some of the soundest advice I have heard in a while my friend. It is one thing to speak your mind...tis another to tip-toe over the line to being noticed for not good reasons.

They are smart and will use this to limit free speech I must hand it to them they are smart. You dont need to change the laws when you have propaganda this good. We need to see it for what it is and not be baited.



They want people to talk with anger so they can use it against who ever they see fit. We are living in strange times that is for sure.

[edit on 22-4-2010 by Subjective Truth]

well SO has a u2u waiting
I'll keep ya informed
on where he stands

reply to post by boondock-saint


Talk to SO, and any lawyer friend(s) you may have. I'll ask around myself, and u2u what I find. As paranoid as I can be at times, I'd stand with you as a witness. This whole situation has angered me. Whoever compiled that report did a google search of 9 one 1 conspiracies and just started taking people out of context. And probably violated the t+c's of the other sites as well. Though I wouldn't suggest going on those forums trying to meet the others mentioned. Those guys are like loose cannons, and probably have been watched for a while now. Stay smart. The author of the pdf most likely will never see you coming. I actually doubt the adl is regularly on here. Maybe some other 3 letter agencies, but the sources scream of quick google search and the depth of the paper screams "deadline due before lunch".

reply to post by nenothtu




You can speak your mind but I would keep it peaceful in nature on ATS and other boards. Remember they are using these posts for their propaganda. And fueling their fire is not helping your cause.



They want us to live in fear it is that simple. We must always keep it honest and peaceful. And in the end honesty will win out.

[edit on 22-4-2010 by Subjective Truth]

nevermind.

[edit on 4/22/10 by silent thunder]

Originally posted by boondock-saint
u really think I have a case??
I mean, really ???

I need to talk with Skeptic. Is he around??
I need his insight.

Let's not presuppose that Skeptic Overlord will be receptive to this idea. This could could draw undesirable attention and scrutiny to ATS as a website. If a select few members could be misconstrued as extremists so easily then could the ATS and it's fora not be misconstrued as an extremist website?

I don't want to rain on anyones parade but their could be serious ramifications if ATS if drawn into a contrived "he said, she said" legal battle with ADL. For Boondock to reprimand ADL on the breaching of ATS's T&C's he will have to directly implicate ATS.

My point: The nature and content of the ATS fora and the zealotry, sensitivity and exploitive nature of ADL simply do not go hand in hand.

Originally posted by silent thunder
nevermind.

[edit on 4/22/10 by silent thunder]

And so it starts?

BTW, great work 1sawsomethings! I'ma call you eagle eye. ATS is like the proverbial king with a thousand eyes everywhere. Somehow my last statement just made me a lil paranoid....

reply to post by rexusdiablos


Excellent point. Did not even think about that.
Second line.

I replied to an esteemed member earlier on U2U, that I don't like being the messenger of such a pile of cr@p from the ADL, nor that things have gotten to this point.

I wish that it did not involve members of ATS. I would however have posted it regardless of what websites/forums the statements were taken from. Because of the free speech issues, and the "3rd reich"ish creation of "lists" e.g. SPLC report. If someone made actionable threats, law enforcement would take care of it and it would be all over MSM. But this ADL/SPLC stuff is a dragnet for Constitutional thinkers to have a pall cast over them as being racist, anti-semitic hate-mongers. The non-thinking masses will suck it up like gravy.

The fact that ATS has upholds standard T&Cs that prevent this from becoming "that kind of website" makes the issue of the ADL report particularly upsetting to many of us. Especially to those that found themselves on the ADL report. If I had not lost some of my posts by refreshing at the wrong time, I would probably be there too, but not promoting violence. That is what they are looking for, but not getting from this site. So they grab comments out of context and mix them in with nutcase scenarios from other websites that are not respected and barely monitored by any staff.

I suggest we speak more loudly and clearly, and make the list of clear, rational, Constitutional thinkers who scare the daylights out of those NGOs, thinktanks etc. who wish to oppress free speech with intimidation. The more the better, don't give up.

Also we should not overlook the fact that this might be a diversion to something. Many boards will be talking about this not just ATS.



We should always look at the other hand ALWAYS. Our eyes should be wide open right now.

Originally posted by Subjective Truth
We need to hear from Skeptical Overlord on this issue. ATS just changed big time.

I second this...

I want to hear what Bill has to say about it, even though he's most likely cringing at the thought, and probably wishes it would just go away when he wakes up.

Many of us have known, for a long time, that the SPLC and the ADL get to pick and choose who they portray as threats, and that they have a specific agenda.

Those guys aren't just another net blog, and the importance of this should not be overlooked.

I'd like to know, first hand, what would happen if the site owners were approached by an alphabet agency demanding the personal information of the posters in question. Is there any legal recourse available that can be pursued for the obvious and selective character assassination?

This is a serious deal.

Originally posted by siahchi
reply to post by boondock-saint

 

Talk to SO, and any lawyer friend(s) you may have. I'll ask around myself, and u2u what I find. As paranoid as I can be at times, I'd stand with you as a witness. This whole situation has angered me. Whoever compiled that report did a google search of 9 one 1 conspiracies and just started taking people out of context. And probably violated the t+c's of the other sites as well. Though I wouldn't suggest going on those forums trying to meet the others mentioned. Those guys are like loose cannons, and probably have been watched for a while now. Stay smart. The author of the pdf most likely will never see you coming. I actually doubt the adl is regularly on here. Maybe some other 3 letter agencies, but the sources scream of quick google search and the depth of the paper screams "deadline due before lunch".

You're right, several have been watched for a while now. AR-15 (colloquially known as "ARFcom") was heavily featured in that report. It just so happens that I know a mod from that forum, and when I broached this subject with him a while ago, I was informed that they've been aware of the surveillance for a couple of months now. Some of the mods there have been deleting over-exuberant posts of this nature, and the report actually singles one of those mods out, and implies he is involved in a 'cover-up' of anti-government sentiment (that's towards the end of the report). The implication is that this particular 'vast right wing conspiracy' is quite a lot more far reaching than shown in the report.

According to my friend, ARFcom has been abuzz with discussion of this report a well. The posts were deleted to avoid this sort of scrutiny, and it seems to have backfired, playing into opposition hands instead.

I reckon my main points are that you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. Propaganda often works like that. That being the case, along with the fact that this attack was tailored to silence disgruntled voices convinces me all the more that I will refuse to be silenced. Whatever we say, or DON'T say, will be played for all it's worth by the censors. Gettng quiet and mousy will not bring the desired effects, so why dally with it?

You're also correct in the assumption that alphabet agencies regularly keep an eye on sites such as this one, ARFcom, and the others mentioned in the report, along with a host of others. Not just US alphabet agencies, either. They, however, are just watching. These purveyors of propaganda, such as the ADL, SPLC, et al, are the ones WE should be watching.

In any event, you can be sure that all these sites will be subject to closer scrutiny than before, no matter what we do or say. In propagandistic efforts, as in courts of law, ANYTHING you say can and will be used against you. In the case of propaganda, it goes a step further. Anything you DON'T say will be treated likewise, as if you suddenly have something to hide.

Deny ignorance, and fear no evil.

reply to post by rexusdiablos


so are we to assume that ATS' T&C is
"just a piece of paper"
like our constitution???

I would just love to see the juries faces
when an old man with white hair comes
stumbling into the court room using a
cane to keep him steady is being considered
enough threat to National Security as to be
put on a slanderish ADL Report.

The MSM would have a field day with that.

reply to post by lernmore

I'd like to know, first hand, what would happen if the site owners were approached by an alphabet agency demanding the personal information of the posters in question. Is there any legal recourse available that can be pursued for the obvious and selective character assassination?

Have you ever heard of a National Security Letter? In the old days it was called a "fishing expedition" except you might find out that you were the quarry. Now, no one has to tell you that you're fixin' to be filleted.


Sorry to be such a bummer these days....

[edit on 22-4-2010 by 1SawSomeThings]