Russia to acquire 4 French “Mistral” Class Warships (this is not good!)

Russia and France will clinch a deal on the purchase of four French Mistral-class warships before the end of the year

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/361e72b8a772.jpg[/atsimg]
Mikhail Dmitriyev, head of the Russian Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation told reporters on Wednesday. The Russian military is considering buying one of the Mistral-class amphibious assault ships, and potentially building three more vessels of the same class in partnership with the French naval shipbuilders. Paris, in turn, wants Moscow to buy two Mistral warships, with another two due to be built in Russia.
Source: english.ruvr.ru...

Looking for additional info I found these related stoires:

U.S. to hold talks on French copter carrier sale to Russia

The diplomatic coinage means that Washington will employ all of its influence to scuttle the Russian-French deal. The American reaction to the warship deal followed last Monday's meeting between the French President, Nikolas Sarkozy and the U.S Defense Secretary, Robert Gates, at which Mr. Sarkozy told Gates that the deal was a normal business transaction with Moscow. He spoke in response to America's concerns. He told Gates that Russia should not be expected to behave like a partner if the West does not act like one.

Source: english.ruvr.ru...

Mistral purchase sends shivers

Many in the Euro-Atlantic Region have expressed fears over the planned purchase by Russia of a French helicopter carrying assault ship. The concerns are gathering pace in the run-up to President Medvedev's visit to Paris and in the light of the French Foreign Ministry's agreement to go ahead with the deal.

Source: english.ruvr.ru...

Medvedev Paris visit not about The Mistral

A three-day Medvedev visit to Paris from Monday will not touch on the planned purchase of a French helicopter carrying assault ship. According to a source in the Russian defence establishment, the matter will be discussed later and probably result in the procurement of as many as four Mistral-family vessels. The Mistral normally carries 450 special forces delivered to target area by six helicopters and a choice of launches – four conventional motor boats or two hovercraft. Neighbours including Lithuania and Georgia have already signaled unhappiness over the Mistral purchase plan.

Source: english.ruvr.ru...

St Pete shipbuilders claim capability to construct Mistral

Naval shipbuilders in St Petersburg say they would need 34 months to construct two helicopter-carrying assault ships similar to France’s Mistral. They propose a joint project in which two other Mistral-type ships are built for Russia in Saint Nazaire in France.

Source: english.ruvr.ru...

More evidence that Russia is building up it's military forces. As the one article pointed out, Russia would be able to attack any country in the region so quickly no one would be able to respond or stop them. Looking at the ship and reading some of its capabilities, I would say everyone in that region best worry (as well as the US as they will have to respond (or not). Just a matter of when not if Russia will start attacking IMO.

You can see from the progression of the listed articles this is a big deal. Then you throw in the matter the Russia will have the plans and be able to build the vessels themselves. The one article noted that the Russian would be getting a less equiped model-not loaded with the French tech stuff. I am sure Russia was happy about that as more time to install the stolen or copies USA stuff into the ships.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b531bae10cff.jpg[/atsimg]

If Russia attacked anywhere, I would not give it a second thought. You know why? Russia isn't retarded or completely corrupt, unlike some other governments, and they've been watching the news; occupation just isn't selling. I wouldn't think Russia would do any occupying invading considering how well that's faring for America. In addition to that, they've been framed by the Georgians as "invaders" and are constantly portrayed as the enemy of the free world even though their world is one of the few free ones left.

Granted, these are more offense carriers than defensive...but if I were to guess, these would be for taking back lost territory instead of invasion. Special Forces are just for offensive operations. There could be any number of reasons by sides a dreaded "Iron Curtain" invasion.

"I am sure Russia was happy about that as more time to install the stolen or copies USA stuff into the ships."
Someone sounds alittle bitter lol

Russia to acquire 4 French “Mistral” Class Warships (this is not good!)

Why?

Is it because America isn't making money, or America likes to be the biggest bully in the playground & doesn't like threats to its posturing.

America, P.O.Q. & mind your own ficken business.

First whinging about Iran getting nuclear power, which America has but doesn't want other people to have & don't try & feed us they same old terrorism tripe again.

Now whinging because Russia & France do a trade deal.

The ironical thing is America really doesn't understand how much the rest of the world loathes them or why the rest of the world loathes them.

This describes the American attitude towards the rest of the world better than anything else.

South Park Season 10 Episode 02 - Smug Alert
www.youtube.com...

Watch out world "REDS UNDER THE BEDS" all over again.

[edit on 22-4-2010 by acrux]

Pfffttt!!! Those are no threat to the US. Track them on satellite, send a couple of subs and sink them when they're in international waters, total deniability!

What do you mean this is not good? This is excellent. When your enemy buys weapons from your allies, that means you know all the specs, and therefore all the weaknesses of the ship.

I dont believe this deal will happen.

Russia will make their technical spy operation towards ships systems, and then they will make those ships by them self. Why in the earth they would need Mistrals because all weapon systems will be Russian made after all? They wont need anything but hull of the ship - and that can be made by Russians too.

France and Russia is competing in building civilian nuclear technology - they wont join in shipping either. This will just show to all Europeans how USA will decide for them what they can do, and what they wont...

Even if France would allow cooperation, USA and NATO will deny it from happening.

First of all.
What makes you think the Russian forces aren't capable of a blitzkrieg styled invasion already ?

Second.
America is very good in doing everything Russia is always being accused of.

If there is a country worthy enough to recieve a warning sticker. It's the US.

reply to post by JanusFIN


The only reason to buy not build is time. Money at this point is not a problem.

The US strongarms any arms deals in which it is not party. That's to be expected.

Posted the same story over 6 months ago ...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Have now come to the conclusion this matters not one iota. French warship design has been patchy when it comes to reliability, Russian maintenance (or lack of) will ensure only one or two of these ships will ever be fit for sea at the same time.

Nothing to worry about, seriously.

reply to post by Ulala


Hmm perhaps on only one ship operating at at time but I would assume that is why Russia wishes to have rights to produce them in Russia. They wouldn't need France at all after they get the goods.

If France was smart...... they would say no, we'll handle of the parts and supplies of needed materials. Keep themselves useful/needed.

So am I to assume you do not believe Russia is building up it's military and could potentially go on the attack in Europe?

The Russians have not been the best people for surface warship development. However, the French aren't particularly accomplished in this area either.

One advantage for the Russions, though, to this scenario is that this would place an increased tie to NATO technology through a member of the European Union that has displayed plenty of anti-American sentiments over the past few decades. The weapons systems this would give them access to would be those for which the vessel had been designed, namely advanced Western weapons of advanced technology. Recall that the Argentines used a French-made Exocet to sink a British warship during the Falklands War.

The French are unreliable, and would sell us out just for the joy of doing so. Also, this would position the French in closer ties to the Russians in comparison to Germany. Although the united Germany is not a strong military force, they are the greatest powerhouse of economic and technology in the EU. France could be trying to align themselves for not only this sale, but for future sales that would increase their status with the Russians.

There's a lot more to this, behind-the-scenes than just the sale of a ship, or even a trio of ships.

I'm not worried about Russia..

They are part of the Anglo-Saxon eugenics pact.

reply to post by Truth1000


Yep. And the Argentinian Air Force was flying American built Skyhawks, their Navy sailing British made warships too ... they're all in it, weapons sales, the British are just about the worst. I read last week that British Aerospace is now the world's largest weapons manufacturer, overtaking Lockheed Martin & Boeing.

It'll be interesting to see what weapons & radar systems are on offer as part of the deal, or whether it's merely an unarmed ship that's delivered, to be equipped with Russian kit. If it's just the ship, well, where's the harm ? Any halfwit nation can build a ship ... and if it's French it'll look the part, be unreliable as hell, be delivered 5 years late and cost twice as much as promised.

Rather like the Kiev class aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov, which the Indian Government has rather foolishly agreed to buy from Russia ... it's hardly surprising the Russians want to buy "off the shelf" when you consider the that fiasco.

True, Ulala.

While we tend to blame the Russians for conventional arms proliferation, the U.S. is the number one nation for foreign weapons sales.

Originally posted by anon72
So am I to assume you do not believe Russia is building up it's military and could potentially go on the attack in Europe?

What are you talking about? The US has 11 carrier task force groups deployed and 369,000 troops situated around 150 countries in the world. You're worried about Russia attacking Europe? You should worry about the US attacking the bloody world.

And you think four amphibious assault ships will make the difference in a Russian invasion? Russia already has a quick deployment force that would do just fine falling from ten thousand feet in the sky; mechanized VDV battalions with BTR-90s and BMP-3s would walk over most of Europe. Then if there's any trouble, the main army force consisting of world class MBTs, SAMs and cruise missiles will complement any serious threat.

Really, you should even fear regular Russian infantry. You think they were raised on cartoons and video games like American GIs? All they know is hardship, and they know who causes it and they know how to repay the favor.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

The US has 11 carrier task force groups deployed and 369,000 troops situated around 150 countries in the world

I say it isn't a question of how much the opponent has but rather how he uses them.

Under the current USA Pesidential administration, the chances of him using those forces is limited. He is only in Iraq and Afgan because they were going on before he got there.

If I was an enemy of the USA, I would be attacking now/soon.

*Sigh*

Originally posted by anon72More evidence that Russia is building up it's military forces.

All i see is a quite a big buy to modernise Russia's forces. And infact, with reforms ongoing in the Ru-Army, the forces of Russia are actualy getting smaller and more professional. (From like 1.3 million to 1 million.)

As the one article pointed out, Russia would be able to attack any country in the region so quickly no one would be able to respond or stop them.

Offense is a very good defense. Its what a lot of countries are going to do when threatend enough.

Looking at the ship and reading some of its capabilities, I would say everyone in that region best worry (as well as the US as they will have to respond (or not).

Well, the only reason that those countries are fearing is because they are part of NATO and if war brakes out between NATO and Russia, they are going to get involved.

Just a matter of when not if Russia will start attacking IMO.

Why would Russia attack NATO/Europe in the first place? They would wage war against their most important trading partner!!!! Asides that, Russia hasnt invaded a country since its predecessor the Soviet Union attacked Afghanistan. And even that was an intervention move to protect the communist goverment from the backwards primitive barbaric Muhadjadeen.

You can see from the progression of the listed articles this is a big deal. Then you throw in the matter the Russia will have the plans and be able to build the vessels themselves.

That is a very good arrangement that France and Russia has made.

The one article noted that the Russian would be getting a less equiped model-not loaded with the French tech stuff. I am sure Russia was happy about that as more time to install the stolen or copies USA stuff into the ships.

The Russians are indeed happy to install their systems whom they are familiar with.

And for the "Stolen or US copies stuff":

On the Mistral there are no US materials or technology since France is pretty self sufficient when it comes to millitary hardware.

And hint: If there where US tech in the Mistral, the US goverment could have stepped in and canceled the deal before hand. US tech if built under French license, is still partly in hands of the US.

Originally posted by UlalaFrench warship design has been patchy when it comes to reliability

Do you have a source to back up that bold statement?

Russian maintenance (or lack of) will ensure only one or two of these ships will ever be fit for sea at the same time.

First: Russian maintanance is improving year by year sharply. Its not the f*cking 90's but the 201*'s in which Russia has a good standard of maintanance.

But yeah, its like the US super carriers. Only 6 to 8 are active whilest there are 12 to 13 in total. The others are either in drydock or are on training.

Nothing to worry about, seriously.

I agree but with other reasons.

You do realise this went out to tender, with French, Spanish and Dutch naval firms trying to secure the contract... it seems it's is going to France, with the caveat the French sign a gas supply contract with Russia (nothing is what it seems)

This was pointed out to me by a French colleague when the comments where flying around about the French selling out NATO etc.. What would we be saying if a Spanish or Dutch firm had secured the contract??..

anyway I beleive these ships will be supplied barebones with no tech.. Tho I guess well have to wait and see on the end result what actually happens.


I'll try and dig out the French sources I had for ya on this topic.

[edit on 23/4/10 by thoughtsfull]

The West should not be complaining about these deals in view of their underhand escapades in recent years. They have improved upon the whip-hand of many tyrants and so it is a case of 'hard cheese' in the instance. I am sure the French will use the same excuse of 'national interests', 'jobs', 'world peace' and the good old 'forming friendly ties with a former enemy'.