posted on May, 4 2010 @ 04:52 PM
Your tiresome extracts from Joel Williams could have been shortened by more than 2/3rds – that is, if you wanted to include anything worth reading
– it certainly did not say anything meaningful to this discussion (or even accurate) about the current 21st century ‘scholarly beliefs’ ref:
the historical underpinnings in the 4 canonical gospels (& Greek ‘Thomas’) ref: the life of R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean Nazir (Gk. Iesous)
BCE 12 to 36 CE.
Williams’ propagandistic (‘Christian Apologist’) methodology is clearlyexposed for all to see if you look a few paragraphs into his messy little
“Unbelievers accept these denials of the Divinity of Our Lord assuming there are valid…and because of this situation in our Society at present, it
is hoped that this Pamphlet will bring some clarity to the issues AND ENCOURAGE FAITH IN CHRIST FOR THE READER.”
So much for any scholarly attitude coming from this Williams person. Why would you take all that space to quote from such jejeune & un-scholarly
To clarify more accurately what more than 50,000 modern ‘serious’ biblical NT scholars REALLY think worldwide about the ‘historicity’ of the 4
canonical Greek Gospels in the ‘New Testament’, here is a list of ’8-initial givens’ that 95% of modern ‘serious’ NT textual scholars
(The other 5% who call themselves ‘scholars’ – mainly in America, and often in the ‘southern states’ are nothing more than Christian
Apologist Fringe Preachers like Mr Williams who have no respect for facts of history, nor of academic disciplines over the past 150 years or so, and
most are illiterate in Koine Greek, unpointed paleo-Hebrew & Aramaic.)
What SERIOUS MODERN SCHOLARS BELIEVE ABOUT R. YEHOSHUA BAR YOSEF the GALILEAN NAZIR (‘Iesous’) & the ways he is presented in the 4 canonical
l. The 4 canonical Greek Gospels were hand written propaganda tracts that circulated ANONYMOUSLY for at least 100 years after they were written in
Greek – the earliest fragments are UNTITLED: they were NOT written by eye-witnesses to the events they describe (they borrow from each other and eye
witnesses do not borrow from non eye-witnesses) nor are the Canonical Greek Gospels written in the ORIGINAL LANGUAGE of the earliest 1st century
Nazorean Messianists whose native tongue was Galilean Aramaic & their geographical details show they are not familiar with Palestine in the 1st
They are not positivistic HISTORY but more like PIOUS PROPAGANDA Stories with a clear AGENDA – & served a purpose i.e. ‘to be read in the
churches’ i.e. during worship services.
(see ‘John’ chapter 20:31)
THESE THINGS WERE WRITTEN SO THAT YOU MIGHT BELIEVE THAT IESOUS IS THE CHRISTOS AND BY BELIEVING YOU MIGHT HAVE LIFE IN HIS NAME’ and therefore are
NOT pure positivistic ‘Historical Accounts’ of the life and times of ‘Iesous’
2. The Greek Gospels are a WRITTEN & heavily EDITED TRANSLATION which appeared AFTER the ROMAN DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM, and represent politically
cleaned up GREEK editions of Chrsitian beliefs about Iesous which was ADAPTED (radically changed) from an earlier (‘more primitive’ / ‘more
Zionist’) ORAL stream of tradition that died out during the 1st failed Jewish War against Rome (66CE to 70CE) at which time the earliest disciples
were killed off.
3. The Literary Form the Gospels take are based on the PERICOPES found in the Elisha’ narratives of II Kings chapter 3-9 --a collection of northern
Galilean miracle stories worked up from smaller units (‘pericopes’) each with a BEGINNING (set up), MIDDLE (story line embellishment) and END
(climax, often a miracle) – and in the case of the 4th Canonical Greek Gospel (‘according to John’ whoever he was) were worked into 7
‘signs’ of the Messiah who out-did Elisha (floating axe head turns into walking on water; raising of the Shunamite Widow’s son from the dead by
mouth to mouth resuscitation turns into the Lazarus episode where raising is effected by a command only etc.)
4. The Greek gospels contain some historical facts --but they are buried in with pious legends - making use of rabbinnic Hagaddic Midrash based on
‘sacred Hebrew & Aramaic Messianic Prophecy proof-texts’ (i.e. the taking an Aramaic or Hebrew scripture & making up a didactic story upon it
‘as if it really happened’ e.g. the 1st gospel’s ridiculous Entry into Jerusalem ON TWO ANIMALS based on a mistranslation of Zechariah 9:9.
5.The earliest strands of the Kerygma (‘preaching’) of the earliest Aramaic speaking (Torah-abiding) disciples of ‘Iesous’ was VASTLY
DIFFERENT from the later Greek (‘gentile friendly, Torah hating’) preaching of Saul of Tarsus, a man who NEVER MET IESOUS in his lifetime, and who
moreover fought with those who did (see Galatians chapter 2 for a taste of his hatred of 'James' and 'John' = 'those so-called Pillars over
preached his own warped gospel of non Torah non Circumcision 'Salvation' to Diaspora Jews who likewise never followed the Rabbi himself.
These sacred texts often DO NOT MATCH the OLD TESTAMENT texts read by Jews and Protestants today (e.g. the Masoretic Text), but are either direct
quotations from the Greek Septaginta (LXX) or a Greek translation of an Aramaic Targum (as in many of the 1st Gospels ‘scriptural’ citations) –
NB: the original followers of R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean (‘Ieosus’) were illiterate Galilean fisherman (‘from the north’) who spoke
Aramaic, not greek, who believed they were living ‘in the last days’ amidst a brutal Roman occupation – & who sought to place R. Yehoshua, their
Daviddic leader, on the throne of a Roman-free Judaea in accordance with their own interpretation of End Times Prophecies (which often overlapped with
the Dead Sea Scroll Covenanters at Seccacah (Qumran).
6. Despite the ‘politically safe’ editing of the originally Zionist (anti Gentile) ORAL material from the earliest ‘disciples’ found in the
Greek gospels, certain passages still were preserved which reveal the earliest Zionist streams (‘the Son of Man (Bar Enasha – see Dan 7:13) was
SENT ONLY to the ELECT of the LOST SHEEP of the HOUSE OF ISRAEL, as we see in the 1st gospel in chapter 15 when Iesous is addressing a SyroPhoenician
(‘& anyway, SINCE WHEN IS IT RIGHT TO TAKE THE BREAD OUT OF THE MOUTHS OF CHILDREN AND THROW IT TO THE DOGS UNDER THE TABLE?’):
These 'uncomfortable' passages (like the Crucifixion for Armed Sedition against Rome (Luke 22:37-49),
or the Baptism of ‘Iesous’ by ‘John the Baptist’ for the remission ‘of sins’ etc.) or phrases such as :
'Do you think for one moment the Bar Enasha (son of man) was sent to bring Peace upon the land [of Yisro'el]? By no means ! The Bar Enasha was sent
NOT to bring Peace, but a Sword ! Not Harmony, but Division...to set man against his son, and mother against her daughter...so that a man's enemies
be they of his own house !!'
These are regarded as ‘more likely to be more historical’ on the grounds of the CRITERION OF EMBRARRASMENT – i.e. that later Christians would
not be likely to make up embarrassing stories about their Lord – they would be more likely to hide them under the rug when found.
7. The Gospel hand copied texts morphed in contents over time and in various places by amateur scribes (for the 1st 200 years or so) who did not have
a set ‘authorised’ text to work with, but embellished as they copied what lay in front of them (no photocopiers or printers in those days – nor
any centralized control over the copies for the 1st 200 years of their history) that is why there are 5446 Greek MSS of the New Testament (hand
copied) no two of which are alike.
8. The Greek canonical Gospel Texts that were voted into the New Testament centuries later were decided upon by VOTE by Bishops living long after they
were written - by persons who had no first hand knowledge of the historical times and places of the authors.
You want 8 more? If so...I got'em !!!
[edit on 4-5-2010 by Sigismundus]