If you read genesis somewhere in there it says that man was to evil to be half immortal or something like that so man may now no longer live more than 120 years I think it was...

Negative on that in the New King James version. I've got a Ryrie Study Bible with plenty of footnotes and biblical cross references for confusing issues and all it says about the long lives is that some scholars have suggested the idea of a water-vapor canopy protecting the Earth before the flood.

Genesis 3:22 says that man was cast out because they had eaten from the tree of knowledge and "become like one of Us.". The expulsion was so that man would not eat from the tree of life and become immortal as well.

First I will say the bible in my mind is a representation of things that actually happend (most of it). It was written by man and is thus written with human errors.

I believe that man came from evolution under the grand scheme of god. We indeed started from dust. Startdust?. Along the evolutionary path man, our ancestors, began to eat meat (tree of life) and this started our path to intelligence.

God did do what the bible says god did but over much longer a time and under the methods plainly seen in science today. Did human ancestors live longer before eating meat? Possibly. Did the first intelligent humans live 900 years? Possibly. We also may have lost this ability to live so long due in part to evolution (again I see evolution as gods will). People think god just snaped his fingers and made it all happen in a blink of an eye. He may have got the ball rolling in the blink of an eye but gods creation is still being created...(no heaven on earth yet).

In fact it may be through our own intelligence that we have ever lasting life, heaven on earth, and finally perhaps bring our dead back to life through science. Following of christs message would save our souls. ( We would live together in harmony if we lived as Christ taught us). Earth would become peacefull.

Science in my opinion is the revealing of god. In a since, science is getting to know god intimately. The bible is simply a book written by uneducated men that were trying to describe our begginings in the best way they could back then. Did they talk with god/gods and angels and then write these words based on what they learned from god and the angels? Maybe but none the less god did no take up pen and write the bible except perhaps the 10 comandments.

I went indebth on this issue because I do believe that man kind did live longer back before we ate from the tree of life and became intelligent like god/angels (them) through gods miracle of evolution and creation.

Its very rare to not see gods work done through the use of gods creation (our universe). Normally gods mircales happen over billions/millions/thousands of years. God is so powerfull he could have just created on particle designed to explode? and create everthing else in its wake. Could an uneducated bible scholar from thousands of years ago actually put that in wrttting? Nope. They explained what they knew and learned in the best ways they could.

The science religion fears are the very acts of god that they seek.

We will eventually use science to live forever. It is spelled out in your bibles.

900 is certainly possible.

Are you even listening to me? We never ate of the tree of life. We ate of the tree of knowledge.
*waves fondly as the "tree of life = eating meat" theory fades into the distance*

I do not demand a strict interpretation of the bible any more than you do, however I tend to accept some limits on the scope of it as well. I believe there to be a proto religion or proto religions which address the development of mankind and the history of the nations between roughly 5000 and 1000 BC. I do not believe that their historical relevance exceeds that time frame.
There could be spiritual relevance beyond that time frame, but I'm not sure.

Evolution occurred before writing or comprehensive language even perhaps. That being considered, I doubt that a detailed account of the creation and evolution, and even of the earliest civilization could exist if not recorded by older beings. Maybe the creation story itself is totally made up, or maybe it's a parable about where the civilization that generated it came from. Unless it was relayed to us by God though (in which case a more literal rendering would be possible) it is unlikely that the creation story is really about creation.

Apart from what it says in the Bible, what evidence is there than humans - or, indeed, any mammalian lifeform, has or even can live for 900 years?

I think they just wasn't very good at the mathematinglical things in those days. Now we're a lot better at that thanks to all the schools and things.

why did people after the bible live so short?

I really have no idea why the answer would be. It could be related to the flood (climate changes, atmosphere changes, etc etc). It could also be due to dietary changes or an emergence or increase in diseases released into the atmosphere.

Also, keep in mind that they narrowed down the gene pool quite a bit during that period and you see a rapid life span decrease within a few generations.

Really it could be any combination of things.

Personally I don't think anything in the bible is true.

just some made up stuff a long time ago.

I believe in the truth like what science can explain, not that we were all created by God.

Religion without science is blind. Science without religion is lame.
I assume you believe in evolution, but the body makes has organs to sense outside sources of energy (such as light) which imply understanding of how the outside world works. Organization and design (subject to grevious errors, such as my step-father) are apparent in the universe.

You can choose any explanation that seems reasonable to you. Far be it from me to tell you that my experiences and my conclusions are superior to yours. All the same, I don't understand the logic behind an arguement that the world is entirely random. I believe that a key element is missing from our current understanding of the universe, and in my mind, it's God.


One other theory (which is COMPLETELY unsupported to the best of my knowledge) has been brought up by fringe theorists. What if the earth is hollow, with other illumination and warmth withing, and the flood carried us to the outside of the Earth, where the suns radiation could act upon and degrade human DNA?

Originally posted by Murcielago
Personally I don't think anything in the bible is true.

just some made up stuff a long time ago.

I believe in the truth like what science can explain, not that we were all created by God.

Personnaly I think that some of the stuff in the Bible is true, however not in the sence in which it is being pertrayed. Like for example when Jesus breaks the loaves and fish between thousands of people, It was considered a mircule, I think that it was more in the way that when they saw, him sharing out the food other amoung them also did the same.

Scientists revise facts on an almost daily basis. Completely trusting what other people tell you can be blind whether it is from a scientific or religeous source. People who believe evolution need to keep in mind that evolutionists work on the assumption that the world was created at random. Facts that can't be easily explained by evolution are often ignored. Many religeous people do the same, just understand that evolutionists are not objective either.

I could probably think of 100 problems with evolutionary assumptions if I wanted to take an hour to think about it. The simplest one is the question of where big bang itself came from. Many physicists openly admit that the current motion of stars cannot adequately be explained by big bang but its "the best theory they have." How many people believe big bang as fact when even physicists don't really buy it? But back to the point, where did the mass to create big bang come from?

Any theory about how we are here can be ruled impossible scientifically if you look hard enough.. Yet here we are. Its really a matter of whether you want to believe in eternal matter that existed forever or creation by God.
Ultimately people are going to choose what suits them best. Although I don't think I am wrong, imagine I believed in God and was wrong. When I was dead, I wouldn't even be conscious so it wouldnt matter at all what happened while I was alive. I wouldn't even remember anything that I had experienced. Evolutionists wouldn't even be conscious to gloat so it wouldn't be a very satisfying win. It wouldn't matter who was right. But what if I'm right?

Eh, anyway I didn't mean to write an essay so I will stop now.

@Perseus:
I know this isn't a theological thread, but I still feel compelled to respond (maybe because i've been drinking). I agree with everything you said except for the "it doesn't matter if evolutionists are right" bit. Actually, I suppose I'd have to agree with that too, as far as semantics are concerned, but I don't consider it a good way to look at things.
My problem is basically that it's a cop-out. It cheapens belief to an insurance policy. I know the bible says "the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" however I do not believe that any God worth following is intent on ruling as a tyrant. I believe that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom because it leads to further inquiry. The reason for belief is because it makes sense enough that you are willing to step out with just "a mustard seed" sized grain of faith and accept God, not because "there are no consequences for being wrong".

I'll cut my sermon short, and end on a brief reiteration of my point: The only issue I take with your post is that God is not simply an insurance policy when your faith is pure.

I'm all for punishing the wicked, but as your water-canopy link shows you are aware, we didn't start dying younger till after the flood- and then we had a significant drop in life expectancy. I can't tell you why- maybe it's because of the bloodline that was perserved after the flood being different (maybe Noahs line never did live very long?). Maybe we floated out of middle earth and started catching too much sun? Maybe the canopy theory is right? or maybe it was a degeneration caused by interaction with the nephilim (maybe Noah had a very small bit of Nephilim lingeage?)

Whatever the case, you'd think that we would ahve started dying young the minute we ate the fruit- not 7 generations later.

Inbreeding for a few generations is going to cause lower life expectancy, as well as genetic weaknesses. There could be additional reasons but that is the most obvious one which no doubt did have a major effect.

The Bible, like all ancient treatises, is a Hermetic document, and if taken too literally loses much of its magic.

It's all a little too detailed to go into on a forum like this, but here's a clue.

Hermetic theory originates with the Egyptians and is based solely on the strictures of musical theory: the idea that individuals in harmony with the cosmic flow of universal forces can live forever.

Take Lamech, the father of Noah the Great Shipbuilder. Lamech lived to be 777 years old. 777 is an expression of the triple-octave, expressed in the Pi convention, (twenty-one notes + the whole phenomenon, making twenty-two) which is not only the blueprint for the Great Pyramid's measurements and proportions, it is also the blueprint for all organic life, including you and me.

For a more detailed look at the music of the ancients, go to:

www.michaelhayes.net. Check out the articles section.

Happy hunting,

Best,

M.H.

Who said a year back then was the same as a year today? No two are the same.
But certain "emissaries" or "liasons" were communicated,abducted and cared for by the Visitors or Elementals,which means,here,of the Earth.
As such you can live centuries while the locals wonder about this."Is He immortal?"

[edit on 6-8-2004 by stgeorge]

Who said a year back then was the same as a year today? No two are the same.

A year has always been the time it takes for the Earth to Orbit the Sun Funny how they knew that back then yet you still haven't grasped it in 2004

A little Biblical discourse here.

Man was created free from sin, and not designed to die.

Sin entered the world, and corrupted perfection, thus entered death.

It is believed by many, and there is evidence to support this theory, that the world before Noah had one climate, exisitng benath a vapor canopy. This canopy would have filtered all harmful UV rays from the sun, dramatically extending all life.

After the flood, all that remianed in the atmosphere was a thin layer of ozone, and the decline of life spans accellerated dramitcally.