Why did people in the bible live so long?, page 23

reply to post by GriBiT

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Although its just an assumtion, the most reasonable explanation, to me, is that years in these early times were calculated as lunar month cycles. I noticed someone else had this posted theory as well. When you do the math, it brings people's ages into a spectrum more in tune with what modern biology and recorded history has observed. Though I'm not well-versed on the bible, it seems that long periods of time have been lost as the stories within it had been passed orally through most of human history, and it is only the last 2400-2800 years, give or take, that have been able to retain most of the information as originally intended. As I understand, the bible suposses that mentally-modern humans are about 6000 years old. With a different understanding of how time was percieved to elapse in the bible, maybe we could have a bible that coresponds better with historical record.

reply to post by superculture

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Here’s a list of the ultra-supercentenarians in Genesis.
The second column is the age they are when they have their significant son. The line of sons go down the list. I’ve change the years to lunar months in that second column. The third column is the actual solar age of the individual when they had the significant child. As you can see there are at least three individuals that could not have children at that young age.

Genesis 5: 3-32

Adam: 130 lunar months, 11.8 solar years, 930 death age
Seth: 105 lunar months, 8.75 solar years, 912 death age
Enos: 90 lunar months, 7.5 solar years, 905 death age
Cainan: 70 lunar months, 5.8 solar years, 910 death age
Mahalaleel: 65 lunar months, 5.41 solar years, 895 death age
Jared: 162 lunar months, 13.5 solar years, 962 death age
Enoch: 65 lunar months, 5.41 solar years, 365 disappeared age
Methuselah: 187 lunar months, 15.58 solar years, 969 death age
Lamech: 182 lunar months, 15.16 solar years, 777 death age
Noah: 500 lunar months, 41.67 solar years, 950 death age

Genesis 5

Ten years of age is the earliest age for a boy to start puberty. However reproduction is not possible till age 13.

Potential fertility is reached at about 13 years old in boys, but full fertility will not be gained until 14–16 years of age, although some go through the process faster, reaching it only 1 year later.”

Puberty

Supercentenarian

The lunar month calculation does not fit in with the age data in Genesis.
Current biology does not necessarily have to be a constant in this matter. The Genesis account did say the atmosphere changed which would impact biological systems. Remember the world wasn’t always flat.

en.wikipedia.org...

Ruler Epithet Length of reign Approx. dates Comments
Predynastic kings 30th century BCE or earlier
"After the kingship descended from heaven, the kingship was in Eridug. In Eridug, Alulim became king; he ruled for 28800 years."
Alulim 8 sars (28,800 years)
Alalngar 10 sars (36,000 years)
"Then Eridug fell and the kingship was taken to Bad-tibira."
En-men-lu-ana 12 sars (43,200 years)
En-men-gal-ana 8 sars (28,800 years)
Dumuzid, the Shepherd "the shepherd" 10 sars (36,000 years)
"Then Bad-tibira fell and the kingship was taken to Larag."
En-sipad-zid-ana 8 sars (28,800 years)
"Then Larag fell and the kingship was taken to Zimbir."
En-men-dur-ana 5 sars and 5 ners (21,000 years)
"Then Zimbir fell and the kingship was taken to Shuruppag."
Ubara-Tutu 5 sars and 1 ner (18,600 years)
"Then the flood swept over."
Excavations in Iraq have revealed evidence of localized flooding at Shuruppak (modern Tell Fara, Iraq) and various other Sumerian cities. A layer of riverine sediments, radiocarbon dated to ca. 2900 BCE, interrupts the continuity of settlement, extending as far north as the city of Kish. Polychrome pottery from the Jemdet Nasr period (3000-2900 BCE) was discovered immediately below the Shuruppak flood stratum.[9]

So I guess this would prove these kings lived for 43000 years 28000 years. And on the wep page linked you can see where at certain timed the numbers half themselfs til there down to reasonable spans compared to today.

reply to post by Wherestheproof

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not so much when you consider that the bible is more a "homage" to ancient wisdoms then a book of its own original caliber.

well ok, it is a book of its own caliber in the sence that they´ve made a "readers digest" of it all and leaving out all the relavant passages from the borrowed parts.

www.wordsight.org...

3000 B.C.

Seth died at the age of 912. (2962 B.C.)
Seth's great-great-great-great-great-great grandchild, Noah, son of Lamech was born. Noah lived 905 years and fathered three sons.


2900 B.C.

Enos died at the age of 905. (2864B.C.)
With intermarriage now common, the Cainites held pervasive influence over the godly descendants of Seth. High moral, social and religious principles were fast becoming extinct.
Violence, debauchery and immorality now characterized almost the entirety of human society. Gen. 6:11


2800 B.C.

Noah talked with Cainan 179 years, Mahalaleel 243 years, Jared 366 years and with Lamech 595 years.
Cainan died at the age of 910. (2769 B.C.)
Mahalaleel died in 2714 B.C. at the age of 895.


2700 B.C.

Wickedness continued to increase. The great ages of the people allowed for an unparalleled pool of united experience, appetite and imagination applied to any given pursuit.


2600 B.C.

Jared died at the age of 962. (2582 B.C.)
Society essentially became corrupt. Only a few godly people remained.


2500 B.C.

Noah's sons were born. Shem the elder son carried on Seth's godly line. Shem lived 600 years and fathered five sons. Shem was 98 at the time of the flood. Gen. 10:21 Japheth, the middle son, fathered seven sons. And Ham, the younger son, fathered four sons. Gen. 9:24
Noah was called to build the ark and warn of the coming flood. (Circa. 2466 B.C.) Gen. 6
Noah began 120 years of prophesying about the coming flood. God asked him to conduct this warning for humanity.

2400 B.C.

Lamech died five years before the flood at the age of 777. (2353 B.C.)
Methuselah died shortly before the flood at the age of 969. (2348 B.C.)
The ark was completed. (Circa. 2348 B.C.) Gen. 7
The 120 years of warning came to an end. Gen. 7
The flood deluged the earth. (2348 B.C.) Gen. 7 (Noah and his family were in the ark one year and ten days. They entered in 2348 B.C. and exited in 2347 B.C.) The Deluge: Different Dates Assigned: Usher and English Bible, 2348 B.C.; Hebrew Bible, 2288 B.C.; Playfair Bible, 2352 B.C.; Clinton Bible, 2482 B.C.; Samaritan Pent, 2998 B.C.; Josephus, 3146 B.C.; Dr. Hales, 3155 B.C.; Septuagint, 3246 B.C.
Meat, grain and vegetables were given to humanity as food items. Gen 9:2-4
Murder was forbidden. Gen 9:5
Death penalty for murder, by either animals or humans, instated. Gen. 9:5-6
The rainbow covenant was instated. God covenanted with humanity and the animal kingdom to never again destroy the earth by flood. The first rainbow was seen. Gen. 8:21-22 and Gen. 9:8-17
Noah's three sons, Shem, Japheth and Ham began to repopulate the earth.
Shem had four of his five sons: Arphaxad, who lived 438 years and carried on Seth's godly family line, then Elam, then Asshur "Builder of Nineveh" and finally Lud. Gen. 10:11
Japheth had three of his seven sons: Comer, Magog and Madai. (No dates or years are given for Japheth's descendants.)
Ham had four sons: Cush, Mizraim, Phut and Canaan. (No dates or years are given for Ham's descendants.)
Shem's first grandchild, Salah, son of Arphaxad was born. Salah lived 433 years, and carried on Seth's godly posterity. He fathered a number of sons and daughters.
.

www.touregypt.net... Kingdom

Early Dynastic Period

1st Dynasty (2920 - 2770 BC)
2nd Dynasty (2770 - 2650 BC)

en.wikipedia.org...(Pharaoh)

Den, the 4th King of Egypt's 1st Dynasty

Length of reign
According to a study of the Palermo Stone, Den had a reign of at least "32 complete or partial years."[6] He appears to have ascended the throne as a child, and the reign of his mother Merneith (possibly as pharaoh) was likely a regency until he was of age.[7] He lived long enough to have enjoyed a second Sed festival, suggesting a reign of at least 33 or 34 years.[8] Consequently his reign is the best attested from the period,[9] and activities of his reign are preserved in register L of Cairo Fragment 5 while his later years are recorded on register III of the Palermo Stone.[10]

Remember Egyptians ruled for life once in power so his reign would cover his life from small child when he took the reign.

So it seems the Egyptians had a normal life span compared to that of the people in the bible. So saying there was magical powers in the earth befor the flood that made people live longer just doesn't cut it. At least not for me.

egyptsites.wordpress.com...

Unas (Wenis) reigned at the end of Dynasty V, for a period of up to 30 years. His pyramid at Saqqara, although the smallest of the Old Kingdom pyramids, reflects his long reign in the intricately carved hieroglyphic decoration of the inner chambers – the earliest known example of the ‘Pyramid Texts’. Before his time (with the exception of Djoser’s monuments) all of the known pyramids had been undecorated..

And so thats the reign during Noahs flood.



[edit on 12-9-2009 by JBA2848]

en.wikipedia.org...

Age 5
1939: Lina Medina of Paurange, Peru gave birth to a 2.7 kg (6.0 lb) son, named Gerardo, by caesarean section on May 14, 1939 in Lima at the age of 5 years, 7 months, and 21 days. Her parents, who assumed their daughter had a tumor, took her to a hospital, where she was determined to be seven months pregnant. Although Medina's father was arrested on suspicion of child sexual abuse, he was later released due to lack of evidence, and the identity of who impregnated Medina was never uncovered.[1]

[edit] Age 8
2006: A girl from Hunuco, Peru, gave birth to a baby weighing 2 kg (4.4 lb) by caesarean section at a hospital in Lima in December 2006. Her ninth birthday occurred a couple of days later. She became pregnant after being raped by two of her cousins. [2][3]

[edit] Age 9
1957: Hilda Trujillo gave birth to a girl weighing over 6 lb (2.7 kg) at a hospital in Lima, Peru in December 1957. Her 22-year-old cousin, who was staying in her family's one-room house at the time, was arrested for rape.[4]
2001: Wanwisa Janmuk gave birth in February 2001 to a girl at a hospital in Phetchabun, a northern province of Thailand. The father was her 27-year-old husband; Thai law allows minors to marry with parental permission.[5]
2004: A Singaporean girl gave birth to a boy in 2004 after being impregnated by a fellow student at her school. Her mother initially thought she had a urinary tract infection, but, upon taking her to the doctor, learned she was already six months pregnant. The baby was given up for adoption. [6]
2005: A girl gave birth to a baby boy by caesarean section at a hospital in Butare, Rwanda, in December 2005. The child, who underwent breast development at age six and menarche at age eight, became pregnant after being raped by her family's domestic servant.[7]
2006: A girl of the Apurinã, an indigenous people from the Amazon Rainforest in Brazil, gave birth to a baby girl weighing 2.2 kg (4.8 lb) by caesarean section at a hospital in Manaus in July 2006. Police are investigating the case.[8][9]

[edit] Age 10
1834: Sally Deweese of Butler County, Kentucky, was reported by Dr. D. Rowlett to have delivered a baby girl weighing 7.75 pounds (3.52 kg) on April 20, 1834. Deweese allegedly developed breasts within weeks of birth and began menstruating at 12 months. [10]
1979: A girl aged 10 gave birth to twins six weeks premature, both weighing 3lb 6 oz, at a hospital in Indianapolis. She is thought to have been the youngest mother of twins at the time.[11]
2000: A girl from Bolivia gave birth to a baby girl weighing 2.5 kilograms (5.5 lb) by caesarean section at a hospital in Parque Patricios, Buenos Aires, Argentina on September 25, 2007. A 28-year-old was arrested on a charge of rape.[12][13]
2005: A girl from Calama, Chile, gave birth to a baby boy by caesarean section at a hospital in Antofagasta, Chile on April 13, 2005. The child became pregnant after having been raped by her father at age nine. Her parents, who both came from Bolivia, were jailed. [14][15] [16]
2005: A girl gave birth to a baby girl at a hospital in Sion, Switzerland in August 2005. She had immigrated to Switzerland from Cameroon with her siblings when her mother married a Swiss citizen. A 68-year-old man who was in a relationship with the mother admitted to having molested the girl but a DNA test found that he was not the father of the girl's child.[17][18][19]
2006: A girl in Abbeville, South Carolina gave birth by caesarean section in 2006 after having been raped by then-26-year-old William Edward Ronca. Ronca admitted to having molested the girl over a two year period and was sentenced to 25 years in prison as a result. The baby was given for adoption. [20]
2006: A girl from Charleroi, Belgium gave birth in 2006. After the child began gaining weight, her mother put her on a diet, but when the girl visited a doctor, it was discovered that she was nine months pregnant. The father was a then-13-year-old boy who attended the same school as the girl. News of the birth did not become publicly known until 2007.[21]
2006: A girl from Jaral del Progreso, Guanajuato, Mexico gave birth naturally to a baby girl weighing 2.3 kilograms (5.1 lb) on April 3, 2006. She became pregnant after being raped by a 47-year-old neighbour, who was sentenced to 11 years, 6 months in prison for the crime.[22][23]
2007: A girl from San Lorenzo Cacaotepec, Oaxaca, Mexico gave birth to a baby boy on July 2, 2007. Her pregnancy was the result of a rape committed by the 65-year-old landlord of the house which her parents rented. The man was jailed.[24][25][26][27]
2008: In St. Anthony, Idaho, U.S., a girl gave birth to a 6 pounds (2.7 kg) baby at Madison Memorial Hospital. 37-year-old Guadalupe Gutierrez-Juarez was jailed on one felony count of rape.[28]

[edit] Age 11
1972: A girl gave birth at the age of 11 years, 10 months at Royal Buckinghamshire Hospital in Aylesbury, England. The father was the young girl's stepbrother.[29]
2002: A girl from Bridgeport, Connecticut gave birth after being raped by a 75-year-old man, who was arrested on April 17, 2002.[30]
2004: A girl gave birth to a baby boy weighing 8.4 lb (3.8 kg) at a hospital in Kharkov, Ukraine in January 2004. The girl, who is currently the youngest mother in Ukraine, is suspected to have been impregnated by a 26-year-old neighbour, who fled in the fear of facing prosecution.[31]
2005: Valentina gave birth to a boy in Moscow, Russia, after she was impregnated by her 14-year-old boyfriend.[32][unreliable source?]
2006: A girl of African origin gave birth to a baby boy at a hospital in West London, United Kingdom on May 5, 2006. A 37-year-old man was arrested.[33]
2007: A girl from Valhalla Park, Cape Town, South Africa gave birth to a baby boy on July 12, 2007. An elderly security guard was arrested in connection with rape. She agreed to give the baby up for adoption on the condition she could visit him once a month.[34]
2007: A girl from Lockland, Ohio, gave birth to a child on November 4, 2007. Her mother's boyfriend, Michael Chaffer, was sentenced to 28 years in prison on charges of felonious assault and two counts of rape. The baby is under the care of relatives.[35]

Seems they can give birth earlier than 13 the youngest on record is 5 years old.

reply to post by GriBiTHI Grib

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i can tell you exactly why Gribit. i do know that one. because when God created man he did not create him w/ the curse of death hanging over his head. when God gives life it is eternal. that is why there was a tree of life in the garden of eden. the wages of sin is death. they disobeyed the
one who gave them life.they sinned against God. the curse of death fell upon them and contrary to what the serpent said, they DIED.



[edit on 12-9-2009 by randyvs]

This is my opinion:

When the watchers came down from heaven and mated with the women of the earth, they created offspring which were called the Nephilim. These nephilim were bloodthirsty giants and sought to wreak havok on mankind. Mankind could not sustain them.

Also, when the watchers came down they started teaching humans all sorts of things we were not supposed to know. Their "knowledge" corrupted us. So in the bible we can see that knowledge of secret teachings is not good for us. It's just not our purpose in life. It's the same lesson that's told with Adam and Eve. Perfect humans are essentially ignorant humans. Once you are on that path to secret knowledge, you are on a road of ultimate corruption.

The reason Noah and his family were chosen by GOD to be saved is because they were the only family who had not been corrupted. Their DNA was still purely human, not the human-angelic hybrid. Noah lived well into his 900's as well. So a lengthy life is not an alteration of our being, but a trait originally given to us by the Lord.

So the flood was meant to
A: get rid of the nephilim who were destroying the world anyway (sinning against all animals and creatures)
B. stop the secret practices that humans were taught by the watchers and were practicing in a big way (everything from astrology to warfare and inbetween - most of which are still being practiced to this day)
C. lessen the life span of the corrupted humans because of our sinful ways

C is probably more of a favor to us. If a sinning person were to sin for hundreds of years, think of how long it would take that person to redeem himself in the eyes of the Lord.

I think it is true that people did live to see very old age in olden days based on a number of reasons. Yes they were probably healthier, yes they were much more pious, yes they had a more direct contact with their creator, yes they were probably of a larger stature than we are now, basically they just were more perfect specimens of humans than we are today.

Also, I do think there was probably a water canopy surrounding the earth before the flood. Think about an unborn baby within it's mother's womb. I think that is a pretty big indicator that we are essentially created and thrive in water, oxygenated water.

It could be that there was a water canopy stopping harmful uv radiation from attacking our skin cells, and it could also be the the atmosphere in which they lived and breathed may have been composed of oxygen and water.

Actually, there have been scientific research in the field of liquid breathing, as they call it. It has been shown to be very effective in treating heart patients. You can read more about liquid breathing here.

Here's a little snippet:

Liquid breathing is a form of respiration in which a normally air-breathing organism breathes an oxygen-rich liquid (such as a perfluorocarbon), rather than breathing air. In theory, liquid breathing could assist in the treatment of patients with severe pulmonary or cardiac trauma, especially in pediatric cases. Liquid breathing has also been proposed for use in deep diving[1][2] and space travel.[3] Despite some recent advances in liquid ventilation, a standard mode of application has not been established yet. Liquid breathing is sometimes called fluid breathing; however, this usage can be confusing as both liquids and gases are fluid substances.

So what I get from this is that not only is liquid breathing beneficial to us physiologically, it would more than likely preserve us outwardly as well. If oxygen is what speeds along the decaying process, then it would seem the antediluvian world may have had less of it, leading to a healthier, better preserved human.

I'm not saying it was a water world, just that the atmosphere that was breathed in may have had a more liquid component to it.



[edit on 15-8-2010 by Privy_Princess]

Originally posted by kerkinana walsky

Originally posted by Buehlar

This in no way would mean that the Hebrews stole and/or plagiarised these accounts from Sumerian records and Epic accounts of a flood etc. to make up their own version. Just facts to back it up. To Daniel, it would be proof of his past and support for his known oral/traditional herritage.
Or am I completely wrong on this?

you are completely wrong on this
The Sumerian Kings of Kish were not Hebrew and the time they were living there was no such thing as Hebrew, not for at least another 2000 years

I found this post which lays it all out nicely
www.abovetopsecret.com...
it contains the line by line comparisons between Mesopotamian stories told to entertain and the undisputed word of God that was derived from them

Why is it that the Old Testament has to be derived from a previous work, Mesopotamian or otherwise?

Could it be that just maybe the story given in the Bible is more accurate than the stories of the Mesopotamian kings?

Please don't let the dates of publication fool you. Everything mentioned in both books happened long before either book was ever written.

It seems to me that the differences in stories is just a mere case of how an original story gets twisted by different tellers.

It is possible that the Mesopotamian doctrine was a more skewed story, and that the Biblical telling was a more accurate interpretation of the true events.

I'm not saying that this is the case, I'm just saying that it's a possibility.

reply to post by Privy_Princess

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I like your line of thought Privy_Princess. I believe C is the best answer.

God went way out of his way to destroy a few million inhabitants with the Deluge event. Remember he had one angel kill 185,000 Assyrian soldiers in one night? -2 kings 19:35. The flood execution could have been this simple if the end of a generation was his only purpose.

I think Genesis 6:3 is misunderstood by most Christendom. The Holy Spirit did not come down until after Jesus' resurrection. The word spirit can also mean the process of breathing. Spirit is an invisble force and so is oxygen/carbon dioxide exchange. The air content changed so that the life span of humans would be reduced. Since the planet was made "good" in the beginning then God had to change Law so that the air wasn't that good any more.

God knew that Noah's son's would not produce righteous offsprings from then on. Another wicked world was soon to start. At least their mysery would be ended in a shorter span. Can you imagine working for "The Man" for 900 years in this world? The suicide rate would be off the charts.

Breathing spirit:

Job 27:3
Psalms 104:29
Psalms 146:4
Ecclesiastes 12:7
Genesis 6:3

Stop breathing. You're dead.

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