The guy who filmed the shots fired at the POLISH PLANE CRASH WAS ASSASSINATED

This thread only shows that ATS members aren't really as intelligent as they make themselves to be.

THIS IS A BLOG, and it's been proven false. All these replies from people who didn't even check, and this is what we have.

ATS really isn't what it used to be. Now it's overrun with ignorant people, and high school kids, and "that is" a fact.

Originally posted by ahddm


Russia thinks its a coincidence. Me and my family all thought Russia even before film came out this just confirms it. They could have blamed on gas tanks or something but now its just obvious. Wonder what the Black Box is going to show if they ever release it or if it even has one.

What reason does Russia have to kill Polish Leadership, other than old prejudices.

gazbom.blogspot.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Being pro-USA / Western Europe.
Missile Shield pointing towards Russia.
Fying out to Russia to mark the anniversary of the Soviet killings of Polish officers in WW2. Kinda like rubbing their face in it...

Originally posted by joao_ed
reply to post by Raczek

 

Thanks for the clarifying.
Have you saw this video? www.youtube.com...

Is there any truth about this?
What you, as a Pole, got to say about this report?

Still cant embed videos here...sorry



These are pure allegations, first I am going to post here a copy of my e-mail that I sent to the owner/co- creator of a web page that I personally like to visit and use some of their materials. The person I directed my e-mail to made a blog entry stating that "so called sources" mention that the crash was planned assasination attempt.
I want to be clear, it was a tragedy and extremally unusual and freaky occurence, there are still unanswered questions, but at this very time, I personally do not see the motive.

I am going to include the e-mail in the separate post, as it is lengthy.

As to what Burgemeister said:

The navigation equipment was dismounted after Tusk and Putin's visit, and before the crash - based on my understanding of the circumstances, the main ceremony commemorating the Katyn massacre took place with the presence of Tusk and Putin, Kaczynski was flying in as he was not present (for whatever reasons) and still wanted to be in the area to pay the tribute. I think it could have been unexpected for russians. (just my own thought).

Merkell was in the US at the time, not in Germany and that's why she did not come. German President was present instead.

If someone shot the survivors the wounds would be visible and families and Polish authorities would question that. There are easier and more stealthy ways to kill wounded person (like Tony Soprano took care of the Christopher after their crash).

Still there are questions I would like to know the answers on: Why the lights were changed? - I know for a fact that it happened. I would also like to now if this is a truth that the photographs were taken away from the journalists as I have not heard about that.

I am not really big fan of Russian government, as they have their flaws (but which government is flawless), but I am pro Russian toward the people of this country, generally I believe in all people around the world, human race and hope for the best. The way regular Russian folks acted after the tragedy is unprecedented, so much warmth and compassion was directed toward Polish people.

This is all what I have to say. The e-mail I have mentioned above, follows in a separate post.

"Hello,

I was debating a lot wether I should send this e-mail, and finally decided that I can't just ignore your post as I find it a bit out of place. First, let me state for the record that I am a big fan of your site. I have been reading and watching the interviews, and while I find some of the sources less credible than the others, I believe that most of the material, views, events and information is true and has some deeper meaning. With that being said, I have to say that your scenario on "forcing the officials to boarding the plane" did not happen, and could not happen. Using this unfortunate and tragic event, just for the sake of cheap thrills is very inappropriate, and may divert interest of any Polish or Russian readers away from your page. The answer to your question of why all these important people were flying together is quite easy, but in order to answer it you must understand a bit more about mentality and way of thinking of Polish people. I can easily explain this, as I was born and raised in Poland, moved to the States some 10 years ago, but still watch very closely what is going on, and what my countrymen views and opinions are - in my hart I am and always will be Polish.

Poland was never a rich country, under a communist regime, later in post communist country, and even now the economy was and is struggling, the poverty is still present, and there is very little middle class, just poor and rich people. That is why we polish people tend to have somewhat materialistic approach to life. We watch what we personally have and compare it to the possesion of other people, sometimes with negative feelings. We tend to monitor what government does with the tax money, and if it something, WE think is out of line, we tend to loudly express our opinions. Our late President was pretty much this same way, Polish politics was a lot about the differences and brining up the dirt, ignorance, lack of knowledge and waste of the resources of the political opponents. Comments were made in the past about politicians using given resources to their own benefits. Government vehicles, expenses, even a cell phone bills were closely monitored and in the event of the disputes, one fraction would throw all the details on the excessive use of these resources on another. Polish society do not like their money to wasted, especially on some things that may not be still available due to the financial reasons, to part of the society. It is because of the savings, and care about public's perception, the president and the officials were using one plane. These politics, and military figures, were afraid to loose in the eyes of their people, when accused of excessive spending. That's why they did not replace these 20 years old planes (they were recently overhauled, and improved as there was "no funds" to buy better machines).

Another social aspect to this crash that needs to be taken under consideration is the fact that the President was not really popular person in Poland. For various reason, Polish would not think too highly of him, and I am not really going to go into the detail here, simply because it is all over, prior to the crash, Polish media. Mr. Kaczynski was highly appreciated by international (European) political circles. However, now after the crash, Polish society united in mourning over the President, the differences dissapeared, everyone, speak of patriotism and Polish Nation. Also, this event dramatically improved Polish relationship with Russia. Regular polish people, in the past full of prejudism towards Russians, feel greatful toward regular Russians, who mourn alongside of Polish. Russian government and people are more open toward the subject that was dividing these two countries in the past - the Katyn mass murder of 22,000 Polish officers in the area of Smolensk by Soviet NKWD (communist political militia) at the beginning of World War 2. Russian government, authorities, and people do more than what the common courtesy.

would indicate, in aiding the families of deceased, and investigation of the crash. It is clear even for an outside observer like myself.

Just for the sake of this explanation, I am going to bring out a statement that I find is out of place, and should not be mentioned at this very moment as it is still very early and the crash victims were not even buried - I think Polish and Russian relationships improved and will benefit from this tragic incident.

I would like to keep this e-mail short, therefore I am not going to go into the detail about these additional points that needs to be brought up: Poland does not have any official procedures regulating how the government officials should travel; function of the President in poland has more representational meaning and "Sejm and Senat" (two rooms of Polish Parliament) and Prime minister (not on board) carry majority of the government power; there was a very smooth transition, when the functions of the deceased in the crash, were taken over by their deputies; there were events in the past were the President used his power to make a final call and override safety protocols (pilot was disciplined), they were running late for important for the President, memorial service pertaining to the anniversary of Katyn massacre.

My view described in this explanation are heavily simplified, and based on the observation of this event and views and opinions express in the Internet.

I am always trying to think outside the box, that is why I value your web page. We have more people like me in Poland, who would not hesitate to speak out when there is a shadow of wrongdoing and hidden agendas in motions, however, so far no one even mention anything at all not to mention anything of value, about possible third party involvement in this crash. I am not going to criticize this post any more at this time, and again express my high regards to your work. If you are looking for more paranormal aspect of this crash, I suggest trying to find an answer on the question, why Polish elites are still dying around Smolensk - so called "Curse of Katyn", 70 years after WW2.

Respectfully,



Sorry I talk to much, e-mail was too long so I had to split it in two.

There is an overwhelming collective who are calling out the credibilty and authenticity of the OP and ripping on anyone who thinks that something fishy might be going on. I cannot corroborate, only speculate. I thought the reason for a site devoted to CONSPIRACY THEORIES, was never to outright prove anything. If we could dissect and prove/disprove every item posted here, there would be no need to theorize anything. I'm sure that there are several people, myself included, who joined the site for entertainment. I enjoy reading and learning about what some people think may be going on behind closed doors. I don't mind throwing in a few sticks into the fire from time to time, and, on occasion, some gasoline. It's fun. Personally, it would not surprise me in the slightest if this were an assassination on multiple fronts involving multiple agencies. To me it's absolutely spectacular to imagine that things like that actually can and, at times, do happen.

I can feel the "You're a typical sheep that believes everything you hear!" To which I respond, no I'm not, I take everything I read on here with a grain of salt. Do I believe the reptilians are going to enslave the global populace by using mind control RFID chips contained in the H1N1 vaccine which will be spread through giant global earthquakes caused by a HAARP facility located on Nibiru which will occur in 2012 by the Antichrist who happens to be a combination of Alex Jones and Barack Obama's 5th grade Muslim teacher's 3rd cousin from the Vatican? Not remotely, but I think it's a sci-fi mind [bleep] and fun to think about the "what if" aspect of the whole pot o' stew.

Anyhow, ATS is a forum for people who wish to enjoy discussions regarding outlandish things. The motto here is "deny ignorance," not "prove competence."

Here is a related website
www.nwofighters.org...
I apologize if this link is already here.

If this was a hoax, I want confirmation.

I want voice analysis done on the supposed 'alive' guy, and the voice from the footage I posted.

Then I want said person to have a picture taken with him holding a piece of paper with the date on it, and in the other hand have him holding his birth certificate and social security card.

After this all is met, I will decide what really happened.

Originally posted by highlyoriginal
If this was a hoax, I want confirmation.

I want voice analysis done on the supposed 'alive' guy, and the voice from the footage I posted.

Then I want said person to have a picture taken with him holding a piece of paper with the date on it, and in the other hand have him holding his birth certificate and social security card.

After this all is met, I will decide what really happened.

Who is the "Guy" anyway? don't people have proper names? Without a name what we basically have here is "A guy died. prove me wrong"

-rrr

two trys to assassinat him. this sounds like they want people to think it is a assassination. but who and why.

reply to post by highlyoriginal


It's almost like saying that you will believe that JFK was murderd with the bullet made of ice if we show you the bullet. Well, ok. It's nothing like that. Anyway...
I don't really think anyone knows who the guy is. I mean there was a name, but who can tell if it wasn't made up? And besides, if I filmed something like that, and read what people are making out of it, I wouldn't want for anyone to know who I am. Too much preasure, all those questions, maybe he himself thinks there's something fishy about it too, and doesn't want to bring attention to himself.
There's no way someone will be able to give you what you want, unless they know the guy personally and convince him to come forward.

Forgive me for not reading every post, but can someone please re-post the source that proves the blog is fake, please.

Or has this not been posted yet?

I'm assuming it has been since so many people are adamant that it's fake. They wouldn't be if proof hadn't been posted, right?!

Thank you.

reply to post by Raud


The #1 rule of this blog is "no one liners", but there is nothing else that I could add and simply say : I agree.

Originally posted by highlyoriginal
If this was a hoax, I want confirmation.

I want voice analysis done on the supposed 'alive' guy, and the voice from the footage I posted.

Then I want said person to have a picture taken with him holding a piece of paper with the date on it, and in the other hand have him holding his birth certificate and social security card.

After this all is met, I will decide what really happened.

There would be no confirmation. No even one official would ever refer to this case. The reason is not that this is haox or not but because in Poland no one form the government takes care about other evidences except this which Russian would give them. Polish investigation became a tragic parody. It looks like our government afraid the most only this that something could destroy this new friendship with Putin. They act like they don't want to see any evidences.

Instead of that in the shadow of this tragedy during burial ceremonies they are signing the contract to buy Russian gas for 30.000.000.000$ and in the same time they give to US concerns our own gas deposits for free. Expert expects that this deposits are even more valuable than this contract.

The consequences would be that until 2035 we have to buy only Russian gas, more than we need, despite this new deposits and despite we have 30% own gas now and in the same time our own deposits would be exploited by someone els without any advantage for Poland. We even wouldn't be able to buy this own gas from this American concerns because we wouldn't be able to use it if we have to buy too much gas from Russia.

I have only one word for this. This is crazy. This is completely mad if you have realize what is happening now in Poland. But people are blind, they can't connect different facts. It is terrifying.

If there were now Lech Kaczynski in power he would point on this case, why Poland is signing so irrational contracts. This couldn't be hidden. But he is dead.

If Jesus would have been dying in present time not wine would be changed into blood under the burden of human sins but oil and gas.


[edit on 23-4-2010 by odyseusz]

Originally posted by McGinty
I'm assuming it has been since so many people are adamant that it's fake. They wouldn't be if proof hadn't been posted, right?!

Is there any proof that this is real?

Aside from a blog that mentions "the guy" I don't see much more than that.

Any legit news sources have this up?

- Lee

I have been a lurker for a little while now, but after seeing this story posted...I felt compelled to comment. Now this is just an idea here....so bare with me.
What if...what if say we were to think outside the box here (and I apologize if this has already been stated in an earlier part of the thread), but perhaps if we were to look at this incident in a way that does not involve borders, or as some people have mentioned...Russia having prior beef with Poland.

And instead of looking at it with the traditional goggles on, and take a step back and look at this from a GLOBAL point of view...who had what to beneefit and gain from this? What has happened in America in recent times? What has been stated as a certain agenda for certain elite powers..not only in the US but the WORLD as a whole?

Now looking at it from that perspective, the dots that I connected as being a possible scenario deals with say...Poland was in the process of HUGE economical reforms regarding it's OWN CURRENCY and NOT welcoming the Euro within it's borders right?

I guess I could summarize by saying...look what happened with the European Union, now look at what has happened in the US, what happens to RESISTANCE when especially now from what I see is the mad push for a global economy? I think if you "zoom out" and look at the ENTIRE GLOBAL picture, and take into account what many many people have been reporting as the agenda of these certain power elites in the world...it kinda takes on a whole new meaning if you were to ask me?

Read up and research the reported (like various guests on Coast to Coast, Jim Marrs, and others) the shape of the new coming world and what China's and Russia's roles are, how certain elements will APPEAR to be pitted against each other (but this is merely a distraction for the ultimate goal), and how America's role fits in with the grand scheme.

I say that YES this was an intentional job and NOT an accident (and I think that many of us on here no knows that), BUT apply a grander scheme of logic (thinking outside of any borders or country names, and apply what has been reported as the ultimate goal of these vampire elites), and the big picture begins coming together if you ask me :-/

Thoughts?

reply to post by odyseusz


You are absolutely right about the natural gas sources in Poland, and fact that they are allowing US companies to look for it. It is ridiculous what the Vice Minister of the Environment is saying : "if they find the gas, we will split the income".
On the other side of the story, maybe it is true what he says about lack of technology in Poland extract the natural gas, as this specific technology to extract the natural gas from the stone was just recently developed.

www.bankier.pl...

I could not find any updates on the deal with Gazprom.

reply to post by odyseusz


Hey man just know that I am an American and with the way OUR world is shaping up...I would stand next to Poland (and die) to fight off this global tyranny that is plaguing ALL COUNTRIES at this moment in time.

If these globalist fuktards want a WORLD GOVERNMENT so bad, you ever hear that saying 'Be careful what you wish for" cuz people are beginning to wake the hell up as to what is REALLY going on and the moment we no longer see from within borders and unite to defeat a common threat to our civilization...they are going to have some pretty big problems on their hands ;-)

(for the record I AM a recently retired US Navy "Chief" and have spent the past 20 years defending what I thought was my country's freedom, more and more it is beginning to look more like I like so many other brave souls who have fought and died in the name of America...were used nothing more as tools and pawns in order to further some BS secret agenda).

Originally posted by SeditiousDissent
There is an overwhelming collective who are calling out the credibilty and authenticity of the OP and ripping on anyone who thinks that something fishy might be going on. I cannot corroborate, only speculate. I thought the reason for a site devoted to CONSPIRACY THEORIES, was never to outright prove anything. If we could dissect and prove/disprove every item posted here, there would be no need to theorize anything. I'm sure that there are several people, myself included, who joined the site for entertainment. I enjoy reading and learning about what some people think may be going on behind closed doors. I don't mind throwing in a few sticks into the fire from time to time, and, on occasion, some gasoline. It's fun. Personally, it would not surprise me in the slightest if this were an assassination on multiple fronts involving multiple agencies. To me it's absolutely spectacular to imagine that things like that actually can and, at times, do happen.

I can feel the "You're a typical sheep that believes everything you hear!" To which I respond, no I'm not, I take everything I read on here with a grain of salt. Do I believe the reptilians are going to enslave the global populace by using mind control RFID chips contained in the H1N1 vaccine which will be spread through giant global earthquakes caused by a HAARP facility located on Nibiru which will occur in 2012 by the Antichrist who happens to be a combination of Alex Jones and Barack Obama's 5th grade Muslim teacher's 3rd cousin from the Vatican? Not remotely, but I think it's a sci-fi mind [bleep] and fun to think about the "what if" aspect of the whole pot o' stew.

Anyhow, ATS is a forum for people who wish to enjoy discussions regarding outlandish things. The motto here is "deny ignorance," not "prove competence."

Quoted for truth. I mean I have been a lurker for a little bit and was under the impression that this WAS in fact a forum for collective minds to...well vent and share with others what they may believe are very real conspiracies? I mean if no forum ever becomes dedicated to that exact purpose (OR IF ONE DOES could you please point me as to which one it is as I have obviously made a mistake by registering here), but if no one steps up to allow and encourage this kind of environment, then hell man we might as all lay down right now and hand the keys to the city over to the global elite :-/

reply to post by Newbomb Turk


I read a lot of good things about the "white hats", the Navy people. Honor and Patriotism are not only empty words for you guys. I wish I was born some 10-20 years earlier, as everything looked simpler at that time.