Freemason Knights Templar meeting here in Italy 2 days ago, changed my life..., page 44

I came back because of further reading I have, done and have to say I'm sorry to see the combative tone. It's not my intent to argue my brother. Only to share what I have found. If you took that disagreement as a personal difference I apologize, that is not my intent. However making a personal attack based a difference of intellectual understanding, or questioning my masonic values is a bit over the top.

I still respectfully disagree that Operative Masonry founded Speculative Masonry.....I will say though there is a more interesting connection I have since read.....that marries both. The Templars as we know were only a very very very small portion Knights. The larger part of the order was actually in managing the massive holdings, buisinesses, and resources that were then used to fund those forces abroad. There were many advantages to doing buisiness with the Templars.....the best being their transactions could not be taxed; not by the local authority, or the church. Something that both gained them a huge financial advanatge and also helped build the resentment from the King of France. As a result many enterprises were done through the Templars to avoid taxation the same as most of us do more shopping online to do the same. The Templars DID in fact have their own in house masons. They were quite prolific in their building , and not simply of buildings "dedicated" to Templars in a more obvious way. Their huge holdings meant the building of everything from barns churches, craftworks (factories), etc.....but more so for those outside of the order, hiring the Local templar masons to build your proposed building meant, also being able to buy and trade materials tax free though them....and usually less graft and corruption. So pushing the limits of their tax free status many did in fact make use of the Templar masons for this purpose. Now these were not actual Templar Knights....rather the clerks....many if which did in fact have clerical training first and foremost. Having a prolific background in building before the end of the order, it would no small wonder that such groups would have stayed intact afterwards and founded any post Templar masonic guilds......this part is of course theory.....but certainly rational.

The Masonic traditions are deeply rooted in both the Bible we have and also in other early church books not included within the bible.......neither of which was freely available, the goals of that proto "Freemason" organization are clearly focused on keeping the early church traditions, and virtue alive during a time when a very corrupt religion was tyrannically supressing theological knowledge and not doing such a good job with the message of Christ. It also shows a sincere respect for Jewish traditions, and Islamic traditions....and openess with other faiths that is not simply out of character with the Church, but is out of character with most of western Europe accuustomed to demonizing these groups. However, again meshing well with an order who having spent most of it's history in the Holy Land and with these groups, and learned to govern, and work with these faiths to common purpose and interest.....I can not rationally see how a pure trade guild, no matter it's knowledge of trade, or even higher mathmatics, would be focused on theological ideas simply unknown to almost all but the most well read clergy, and at the same time open to working with and protecting religious minorities at a time of xenophobic hatred for them by the general populace.....The history of Speculative Masonry likely has many fathers, and that proto group before it became public was a safety network for many when persecution was very real for any who differed with the Catholic Church. The reformation has it's seeds there, most all modern protestant churches, the invisable college and thus the royal society has it's seeds there, most anyone who is in favor of church reform, has a reason to seek it's network of support and safety. Save of course that OTHER group.....so often reffered to here, that has embraced atheism, and as such is and always will be at odds with the very purpose of freemasonry.