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Freemason Knights Templar meeting here in Italy 2 days ago, changed my life...

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posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 09:13 PM
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reply to post by DaisyAnne
 


date of the elam to which you refer?
if you say inana's timeframe, i'll be all over it like butter on toast, honey on bear paws, ketchup on french fries!
and u2u your response so we don't get edited outta the thread.

what do you make of the op and the responses in the thread so far? odd thing that. one of the odder threads i've seen on ats.




posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 09:29 PM
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reply to post by undo
 


Undo..Its simply..the truth..not a version of it..yours theirs His or mine..just unvarnished truth...not a screened version..it is what it is....and you, are what you are.

Its very difficult stuff to articulate and to share oddly, given that it is human experience and you'd think it would be so similar to that..but its not. You think you can 'handle it' but you cant..you can only endure and survive it. 'Endure until the end' and then let it go...which is not an easy thing as it might seem. It is meant to happen or it wouldnt be hapening, and depending on how you view God..as one who Loves or hates us, depends your view of it.

Whatever it is or will be or wont, for you or another, imo, it needs to be looked upon and viewed/digested in a space of calmness, of non judgement and with every spec of faith you can muster, a childlike faith, not taken in fearing and adversarial manipulation which only corrupts more. You do not 'own' this thing..no one does and you do not control this thing...no one can. You cant prepare for it, dont have to get 'good enough for it'. It is akin to reconciliation, where you are the one reconciled not reconciler. Keep in mind that God reconciles the world, to His self..not the other way around.
Whatever it is or will ever be entitled....God knows. That might help..though I doubt it.

Unlike many I do not believe that freemasons or anyone group or individual has the sole right or power to open anything of their own accord. Having or assuming yourself to have divine or godly power and being God being two completely seperate things. I know that for me I dont need or desire Gods power..I just need God, so I guess how you would experience anything is or will be based on your relationship to that dynamic and the extent of pride or ego involved.

I believe an opening when it occurs, is affected, caused, a happening, one that stems from the readiness of thindividual but is effected into action by non local sources at least in the first instance - as God wills when God wills, its done.

When it is not the case, I have observed that the process is corrupted and no solidity of viewpoint or usefulness can come from it as the door to debate and suspicion will remain open and where faith and reason fail and doubt lives, there can be no reconciliation as doubt kills, doubt and the mistrust it engenders errodes even Truth, like water over stone.

Many periods of minor awakening and evolution of consciousness have occured within the human species this way, just read Tennyson and each has occured in the right measure, when it was time, when it was necessary which has led me to the view that its ultimate culmination in humanity will be FOR us, and precipitated by a non local event in the first instance even if that is simply a decision made by God to act. Terrifying, beautiful, simple.

Its like consciously being aware of the knowldge that one day, God will, lovingly, bind us together and leave *the parental space* He has been in for eons, and that we must greive and step up as individuals to support that, it is a way to address your needs during that time..and as humans, being unable to determine individual readiness for that event in the first person without the risk of self deception, a non local factor would to need to be directly involved.

People, alchemists, new agers, old agers, mystics, spiritists, satanists most recently religions and psychologists etc have tried to force it, tried their hardest to 'open' the record of our dna for eons..none have succeeded as none is God or greater than God..and though many have said they have done so, it is my viewpoint they are being deceived as many have been prooven outright liars and victims of spiritual deception.

All I am saying is..when it happens there wont be need for speculation or worry. Not one book say's that God said we must worry.

Ro



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 09:42 PM
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...and this issue is one major reason I opose genetic crops, transgenetic treatments and genetic manipulation of our genome and bodies in any way. Even why I wil not accept rfid implants as they have an impact on our genes and hence on that record.

When God said ' do not mongrelize' I am reasonably sure, in believing and knowing that God is wiser than us, an intelligent loving being and not a secular racist, He meant 'dont mess with our genes'.

That is not an argument for religous or racial purity or eugenics...as we all share a comon mitochondrial mother and hence are all related, it is an argument for preservation and conservation, one for humanity's entire genome.
One we barely understand and view only in the simplest of physical terms, and so have no right to interfere with until we truly comprehend the fullest extent of its value and compehend with wisdom, the real nature of the scroll within us and its role in our holistic human development.

Oddly..reading about aliens etc..and the greys...I feel this mistake more than any other, was the 'grey aliens' mistake. They fubar'd their genome before they realised it had ather purposes than the physical.


lol..I can't believe I just wrote that.


Ro.

(when there is no wind
)



and apologies for the edits..i need a decent spellchecker.



[edit on 24-4-2010 by Rosha]

[edit on 24-4-2010 by Rosha]

[edit on 24-4-2010 by Rosha]

[edit on 24-4-2010 by Rosha]



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 09:44 PM
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reply to post by Rosha
 


so you are saying they are trying to decipher our dna, against god's wishes? masons are doing this, specifically?

i'm fascinated with the references to binding and loosing in the new testament, a subject that's rarely discussed in christian writings. i gots a sneakin' suspicion that the secrecy based fraternal orders know exactly what it is, what it means, how to do it, and they are, at this point, the only ones privy to data that was originally meant for every believer and has been stuffed into the mystery box of mystery babylon. hidden from the body of believers, so that we are forced to struggle to discern it via prayer and divine intervention.

but to have it relate specifically to our dna, is a concept i had not considered. are you suggesting they've discovered some way to remotely manipulate people's dna in a negative way or a good way?



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Rosha
 


so you are saying they are trying to decipher our dna, against god's wishes? masons are doing this, specifically?

i'm fascinated with the references to binding and loosing in the new testament, a subject that's rarely discussed in christian writings. i gots a sneakin' suspicion that the secrecy based fraternal orders know exactly what it is, what it means, how to do it, and they are, at this point, the only ones privy to data that was originally meant for every believer and has been stuffed into the mystery box of mystery babylon. hidden from the body of believers, so that we are forced to struggle to discern it via prayer and divine intervention.

but to have it relate specifically to our dna, is a concept i had not considered. are you suggesting they've discovered some way to remotely manipulate people's dna in a negative way or a good way?




I am not 'saying' anything...then or now. I honestly have no idea what the masons are doing or what they are thinking or experiencing, or any other credible information on who knows what. I know what I know..thats it.

I think there is enough evidence around to suggest that certain factions of humanity have understood the simple understandings I have and come to similar conclusions, and yes, for good or ill may have manipulated that information for a long time, but to what ill end or what good power? I dont know for good or bad I dont know. God knows. I cant even tell you with 100% certainty that my consclusions are close to correct and neither can anyone else!

Keep in mind too..that any one of the events I just described in the last post while simple to read...can be life altering and emotionally and psychologically devestating. For some even just to know God is real not a fake or imagined being, to be consciously fully aware of that, can actually bring on shame enough to kill....so it may be that some people have taken that seeming obligation of parental space up for themselves and are acting to that end - I cant judge their motives. Perhaps in that light though, information is being sequestered necessarily as parents do to to children..again though ...it is more likely the case they simply DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH IT and in that not knowing, fear it and the potential repurcussions...and so then they act on those fears rather than the truth or acting in trust with God.

Having information and then having a correct cipher or interpretation of that information are two seperate things.

Also..what I described was an individual process, that may happen collectivelly speaking but has not yet. It may or may not happen as was written..or not. I do not speculate on the future. I am here now in the present.

I also dont think the issue of genetic manipulation is such a hidden thing, people are openly and often with the best of intentions, 'exploring it' and the possibility of genetic 'tweaking' right now..through 'research' and 'science' etc..nothing that I can see is being specifcally hidden apart from agendas that are easily surfaced given the right motivation.

It may be that we screw up simply as a result of complete innocence rather than as a result of mega cartel manourvering.

I also said that I do not believe they control this power of opening at all..in fact I dont believe they can or that they can control any of it no matter what is undertaken, they can as you can I can, only act on what they think they know at this time..which is limited.

The opening of the scroll described in Daniel speaks of a collective awareness and awakening..thats 7 billion monkeys waking up, not just a 100.


Ro


[edit on 24-4-2010 by Rosha]



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 10:08 PM
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just as an interesting aside. i was debating the teachings of apostle paul regarding women speaking in the church. he claimed he didn't suffer women to speak to the congregation (compare this to when yeshua brings a woman right up to the front of synagogue and has her speak). paul claimed the reason he didn't allow women there was because of eve. i asked the question: if we are still being held responsible for the sins of the garden, what was the point of salvation and the old putting on the new and all the phraseology that explains redemption, forgiveness and transformation. the gentleman debating me said, "you still have pain in childbirth doncha?" (paraphrased). that had me stumped for over 2 years. then while discussing it with me hubby, he said "he still sweats when he works, don't he?"


so yeah, i think people should weigh paul's ideas against yeshua's literal examples. paul was afterall, coming from some hard core old school beliefs regarding women. i think that kind of thought, is what messed up the church early on. with 50 percent of the potential blessing, spiritual gifts, and ability to spread the gospel, stifled due to body parts, which is how i view the exclusivity of masonry as well. it's related to body parts and the idea a grown man will lose the ability to make sound choices because he will be beguiled by the musical voice of the evil woman.



[edit on 24-4-2010 by undo]



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Rosha
 

but to have it relate specifically to our dna, is a concept i had not considered. are you suggesting they've discovered some way to remotely manipulate people's dna in a negative way or a good way?



To clarify, I was suggesting that in our eagerness to know the truth we as a species have developed an almost irresistable urge 'to know', a curiosity insatiable that can when allowed to run riot, cloud out reason wisdom and patience.

Try to keep in mind that it is said that Alexander died because he had defeated all his enemies...when it 'ends' it 'ends' and there is something to be said for the journey of exploration towards that ending and the Spirit of Humanity that has been bought forth through this Time

As for the voice of a muscial woman...they may be right! I dont know.

I just know Jesus called all genders into His service, he saw the hearts and so for me, its Gods will I try to align myself to and to follow to the best of my conditions, not human will or human groups etc and so I am focused on Truth, and seeking Truth and Gods will for me, for myself and even then only as it applies to me.

Wherever I am in relationship to the churches or faiths of man..I have no idea...I am just me and my heart is in His hands...if it is evil, then its in the right place..if it is a good heart..it is in the right place. My gender, has nothing to do with it.



Ro




[edit on 24-4-2010 by Rosha]

[edit on 24-4-2010 by Rosha]



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 10:25 PM
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reply to post by Rosha
 


here's a related "visionary" experience i had:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

at the time, i had no idea of the extent of female genocides that had transpired on this planet for at least the last 5000 years. i started to study the topic more indepth and wow, let me tell you, it's not pretty.
literally tens of billions of females have been killed over the millenia, either as soon as they were born (female infanticide, which see) or via forced abortion.

that's when it all kinda clicked. the disdain for women, the hording of knowledge away from the sight of women, the religions ending up with negative connotations specificially aimed at women, we were like a blight on the planet to be hated THAT much, or were we? i had to figure out what it all meant, so i went to the teachings of yeshua, and lo and behold, i find i have the best advocate possible but literally no one is listening to him, in fact, they are trying to prove he never existed (a very scary dilemma for women everywhere, because without a defense attorney, we are gonna get wiped off the surface of the planet, and replaced with robots and porn).



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 10:48 PM
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Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Rosha
 


here's a related "visionary" experience i had:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

at the time, i had no idea of the extent of female genocides that had transpired on this planet for at least the last 5000 years. i started to study the topic more indepth and wow, let me tell you, it's not pretty.
literally tens of billions of females have been killed over the millenia, either as soon as they were born (female infanticide, which see) or via forced abortion.

that's when it all kinda clicked. the disdain for women, the hording of knowledge away from the sight of women, the religions ending up with negative connotations specificially aimed at women, we were like a blight on the planet to be hated THAT much, or were we? i had to figure out what it all meant, so i went to the teachings of yeshua, and lo and behold, i find i have the best advocate possible but literally no one is listening to him, in fact, they are trying to prove he never existed (a very scary dilemma for women everywhere, because without a defense attorney, we are gonna get wiped off the surface of the planet, and replaced with robots and porn).



Thank you for sharing that, and I am sure some men hold the reverse fear as well, with robot lovers and sperm banks.

I am not sure what men or women will do as all excuses on both sides of the gender argument will cease to have a basis in fact relativly soon imo. We need each other..its that simple....we either accept or not, a choice.

Already I can see the confusion rising conscousness is having and already I can see how difficult it is for men and for those women who have not been raised as women...those that have lost their spirit and the value of intuition owing to globalism and feminnism or suffered beyond the capacity for spirit to remain with the body.

Women historically, though well intentioned, and often hard done by certainly havent done a very good job at helping men prepare for that transition to conscious spiritual reality. Its not our fault in entireity, given weve had religion ordering us to submit to husbands as a means to teaching and help meeting them, and God ordering us to rule over them and so in our own ignorance, and stretched too far beyond minds ability to cope with the demands, and most women ignoring the fact that to rule does not mean to reign, the whole elastic band that binds us together has become floppy and like swiss cheese.

It's a spiritual malady and confusion based in mistrust imo.
Either way, its heart breaking.


Ro



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 11:01 PM
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reply to post by Rosha
 


it's worse than heartbreaking, it makes the holocaust look like a 2 minute schoolyard fight. all out war has been perpetrated on 50% of the population for thousands of years, in the worst genocide you could possibly imagine. it isn't as prevalent in western nations but as the lines of morality get blurred, a new problem is being added to the old problems

believe me, it gives me the willies to see how it's being handled in western society-- pendulum swing opposites don't solve the problem they make it worse. when that baby swings back to the other extreme there will be millions of really pissed off western men. and they'll be mad at women. it's a massive set up for what i can only characterize as the dehumanization of the baby makers (females) of human civilization. a necessary step in curbing population growth. probably based on some extra-terrestrial model of maintaining a highly trained all male fighting force. new members cloned from dna pools. and so on.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 11:17 PM
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reply to post by undo
 


Paul was a notorious womanizer.
Very anti-female.. maybe he was gay, wouldn't be surprising.
and most of what yeshua said is taken out of context and used as a method of control.. I think the Gnostic Christians have the clearest picture.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 12:39 AM
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Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Rosha
 


it's worse than heartbreaking, it makes the holocaust look like a 2 minute schoolyard fight. all out war has been perpetrated on 50% of the population for thousands of years, in the worst genocide you could possibly imagine. it isn't as prevalent in western nations but as the lines of morality get blurred, a new problem is being added to the old problems

believe me, it gives me the willies to see how it's being handled in western society-- pendulum swing opposites don't solve the problem they make it worse. when that baby swings back to the other extreme there will be millions of really pissed off western men. and they'll be mad at women. it's a massive set up for what i can only characterize as the dehumanization of the baby makers (females) of human civilization. a necessary step in curbing population growth. probably based on some extra-terrestrial model of maintaining a highly trained all male fighting force. new members cloned from dna pools. and so on.





Yes. I am well informed. I just see it differently, I simply see it as 'affect' and what happens when you choose ('cause') to abdicate personal individual and collective responsibility and give power to intangible ideas, creations like traditions and spiritual theologies that dont apply wisdom instead of giving power to your own common sense, conscience and wisdom and relationship to God.

Both women and men have suffered under this, the hardest burdens and ultimate consequences carried by far are by our children. Both women and men are responsible and accountable as both carry the ability and power to affect change. Everyone is a victim of violence and everyone is responsible.
We are the abused, abusing in kind, which leads only to more abuse. It is a cycle we can only break by active choice and action in the present moment not by dredging up the past and slinging mud around.

Having ridden a pendulum of sorts in my own life I know how easily knowledge, intuition, emotion and compassion can be manipulated and exhausted, how they can be misused and how hurt and pain and fear can cloud judgment as much as rigid reasoning and logic can deny justice.

At some point we will have to grow up and stop blaming them they and that..euphamisums that begin in the I, and together, try 'we'....or not.
It is a choice.

We who have, have been given the freedom to choose, for a reason...and because we are capeable of doing so... and that may not necessarily be for the reason we'd like or prefer. Imo, imx, Christ is the key. As in Him we ARE One...there is no us and them...only we.




Ro



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 12:47 AM
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reply to post by Afewloosescrews
 

You realize that Morals and Dogma is not the ritual of the Scottish Rite, but just a supplement, an opinion of Pike, about the degrees. The "Lucifer" that Pike talks about is enlightenment, increasing ones knowledge. The "Lucifer" from the Bible is a disgraced Babylonian king, not some fallen angel - there is ample evidence of this and has been introduced on this site many times over.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 

What an absurd claim without any merit.

reply to post by 911stinks
 

How was that a confirmation? People are not allowed into bodies that they have not received the degree/order for already. There is no argument to that. That's a very basic rule that is strictly obeyed.

reply to post by Dock9
 

P2 was a clandestine or irregular Lodge. Clandestine Lodges are not recognized as true Freemasonry and often employ the very things you accuse regular Freemasonry of doing. They are a thorn in the side of Freemasonry.

reply to post by VinnyboyXI
 

So could you provide us with the name of the place you visited? Lodge name? Names of the officers? What Lodge do you belong to? What degree are you in the Blue Lodge?



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 01:42 AM
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reply to post by VinnyboyXI
 


I also think you are lying for the reasons of your grammar and spelling.

Anyone who speaks several languages would be not only able to use proper grammar and spelling but also certainly not make "grotesque" errors as you did. It's just part of the world of people who work with words and communicating what you mean accurately. By the nature of their work, people who translate for a living must distinguish between "there" and "their" every time they come across it.

And, like others have said, your story is utterly useless. Unsubstantiated nonsense as far as anyone is concerned!



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 02:33 AM
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reply to post by glitchinmymatrix
 


Imagine yourself living on a farm miles from anyone else,its late at night you`ve not slept for ages,a fair dinkum true blue honest to goodness craft for another planet lands outside your backdoor,creatures come out of said craft.

They say "G`Day glitchinmymatrix,we`re here to impart some knowledge to you,the fellow you call Jesus as many humans believe to be bunk,was/is the Son of God he will shortly return and boy is He angry with those who tried to find any and every excuse not to believe","By the way glitchinmymatrix you have twenty minutes to explain this on the net,and you`d better not tell who told you,got it? see ya then bye".

"Oh and one more thing before we go, try and type correctly there are many human grammar Nazi's`s on the net,all the best with that".

Zooooooooooooooom


Just wonding how well you`d do?



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 02:56 AM
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reply to post by Rosha
 


You're coming from a strange perspective, not sure i follow entirely, but it resonates vaguely with me. Thanks for this.

My beliefs are simple, you have the physical plane, and the spiritual. Our DNA is the magic gateway between the 2, which allows us to "inhabit" our bodies for a while. Whatever alchemists and occultists think they're doing, all they ever succeed in is opening a door to the "spirit side" which certainly does exist.

Because of their inate ignorance, and inherently selfish natures, they attract whatever dark sits waiting for such opportunities. Demon possesion is strange, because it seems to blur the DNA lock we have with our bodies. The wholesale destruction of DNA we're currently witnessing through EM radiation, i think is part of their desire to destroy the masses. The fact that they have our consent in doing so is empowering to the act.

It was the desire for knowledge that got us into this mess.



given that it is human experience and you'd think it would be so similar to that..but its not. You think you can 'handle it' but you cant..you can only endure and survive it. 'Endure until the end' and then let it go...which is not an easy thing as it might seem. It is meant to happen or it wouldnt be hapening, and depending on how you view God..as one who Loves or hates us, depends your view of it.


That is the best summation of "life" i've heard ... the following paragraph was just as good.

Undo:

what you say is true, about the genocide, mankind stinks sometimes. My answer to you is tied in above. Woman are more emotional beings, and have greater access to the "spirit" side. Ego is the greatest barrier when you approach things greater than yourself, and the "patriarchal" society is BUILT on ego, completely. The reality is that the patriarchs are only able to unlock the dark side, whereas matriarchy opens the "true" human experience. One more humble, and serving. See how it frightens those with borrowed power?

Gender is too fixed in society, and even today, anyone who successfully breaks out of the stereotypes will show scars for their efforts. Divide and conquer, step 1.

KSigMason:

We have already had someone confirm that vinny could not have gained access to the meeting he claims to without having been initiated first. That suggests strongly that the lodge he was at is NOT clandestine. I wonder if it was P2?

Please explain why several masons on this thread have made out that "Lucifer" is just ... misunderstood, not such a bad being, a Babylonian king and just generally a nice guy? The masons flaunt their "godbelievingness" only to keep holding their little light high?

Hmmmmm could it be that you can only believe in lucifer if you believe that he did/is/will OVERTHROW said God? The insidiousness with which certain ideas have been inserted into this thread ... tut tut boys, clever catches the monkey.

Speaking of monkeys,



I also think you are lying for the reasons of your grammar and spelling.


Bad grammar, irrelevant, bombastic and rude. I fall under your broad sweep of "anyone". Please do not ever speak on my behalf again.


EDIT, theres always 1

[edit on 25-4-2010 by harryhaller]



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 04:03 AM
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well satan means "Accuser" which is what the LAWS of the OT (old testament) do, they accuse. dunno if you're familar with paul's writing in romans 7 and 8, but he basically points out that the law is what accuses. so i'm thinking that it's a bit of a logic puzzle.

i'd go more indepth but it'd take the thread hopelessly off topic.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 04:24 AM
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reply to post by undo
 


No puzzle. It IS the law that keeps us bound. That accuses us.

Remember that movie with Al Pacino as the devil, he was a lawyer.

All to effect the worldwide laws, based in roman law.

A new religion, like masonry, which allows anything, so long as you allow yourself to be tricked into lucifer worship.

Iron mixed with clay.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 07:38 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
If a serial killer tells you the Sun comes up at dawn, does the fact that he is a serial killer mean the Sun does not come up at dawn???


I know you understand my question. You just choose to avoid a direct answer.

You may know the serial killer to be such by factual evidence. I await Vinny's factual evidence that he is a Mason.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 07:57 AM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
I await Vinny's factual evidence that he is a Mason.


LOL.
It's the internet!
People can claim to be whatever they want.

Are you trying to goad Vinny into revealing a secret password or something? Vinny owes you nothing!

Your actions speak volumes on behalf of your organization. Do they encourage bullying within the ranks?



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