Freemason Knights Templar meeting here in Italy 2 days ago, changed my life...

reply to post by undo


Personally.. I don't believe in heaven .. so I don't know if females are permitted there or not. Freemasonry doesn't dictate "afterlife" of any kind.. so I don't know why you'd expect me to know that answer. I'd talk to a priest.

why are the gods all men, with the exception of the whole inana/isis/astoreth thing, which is characterized in just about every abrahamic belief system as intrinsically evil and attached to sorcery?

Judaism, Islam, Christianity.. these are all Patriarchal Religions.. they view women as lowly beast here on this planet to nag at us men, serve us sexually and tempt us with all kinds of evil tempestuous activities.

I personally love European "pagan" religions Pantheons my self.. their stories are, imo, much richer and spiritual .. there is also a huge difference in the respect towards women. In Irish, Scottish, Welsh, British mythology you see characters like Morrigan, Agrona, Boudicca, and one of the most important Gods of all Eriu.. from which Ireland even takes it's name (it's official name, Eire)

So yes.. there are female Gods.. some of which are far more important than their male counterparts.. but again, you find these in "tribal/pagan" religions all over the World.. women were treated much differently.. we just happen to live in a society were a Patriarchal Religion is dominant.

having a penis has nothing to do with heaven

I'd assume if such a place exist that indeed having a penis is not required for entry... but it is for Masonry.. which is not heaven, it's a fraternity.

you could say, well there are lodges for women now. BUT THERE WASN'T FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS!

Masonry hasn't existed for thousands of years, and it grew out of a Patriarchal society (English Law, unlike something like say brehon law) .. it was rare in European societies at the time of Masonry's conception to allow women to join such organizations.. Masonry has not changed much since that time.

so clearly, for thousands of years, women were not allowed divine knowledge? who's idea was that? just what in the sam hill is going on?

Masonry is not "Divine Knowledge" .. in fact.. it's not specifically any kind of knowledge at all so much as a it is a .. er.. spiritual assistant.

Who's idea was it to demonize women, turn them into subhuman counterparts? .. I'd say it was probably egotistical men who'd rather their women shut up and cook them dinner than worry about "manly" things.

But again.. not all systems were like that.

Originally posted by americandingbat

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

He logged-on yesterday. If he was inclined to clarify the holes in his story, he could have. Given that this thread apparently made it onto the front page of ATS (and that it's been at the top of the SS forum), I sincerely doubt that he's "unaware".

I just want to point out that in the time zone that the OP says he posted from, it would already have been 4/22 when he logged off of ATS the night he first posted this thread. I'm pretty sure the 'last login' datestamps in our profiles are based on the time zone we're posting from, because I know that I've seen people whose last login date was tomorrow for me.

If that's so, my bad on that count. However "Vinny" logged-in today as is demonstrated in his posting profile

I'd be very much surprised if there were any clarifications from him on his story's discrepancies forthcoming. However, I could be surprised.

reply to post by VinnyboyXI


Ok, so we have your word - can we have some evidence? tickets, receipts from food places in the very town/city you met? I know that isn't compelling evidence, but at least if it was that secret - you couldn't just walk in without any credentials?

Can you explain how the rituals worked? What the specific history was? What their current agenda is?

You havn't provided any food for thought here, only the declaration that you went to a meeting and saw peope that you knew who they were.....

If you are lying or bending the truth, you are a horrible horrible person, if you are telling the truth, do tell us more and solidify any theories or you will be considered a charlaton, if you're not willing to do that, then just GTFO this forum.

Think of some more questions to suss this guy's true motives out people, thanks - Peace out

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I in fact hope for Vincent's sake he is not a Mason, for if he is, it won't be long before he is made to pay a price for this thread, if in fact, he is not paying one already.

The only price that he would pay for lying is his credibility on this forum.

See, through a series of carefully veiled intimidation, the truth is Vincent was scared right off this thread, because there are real penalties to be paid for a Mason betraying any secrets of the Order.

Or maybe he got caught lying?

I can surely understand, why finding out if Vinnie is a Mason is so relevant!

I am sure that you do, since if he lied about this then other aspects of his story may also be untrue.

In all serious Proto, if he came here and said he fabricated that part about being a Mason; how would that affect your opinion of him in regards truthfulness overall?

*SNIP*

That's a great read Dock9, thanks. And so the inner circle Knights were fighting for Jesus with the knowledge that he was only a God gifted man and not God himself. Knowing Jesus was not God, perhaps they viewed him as a fellow Knight, was their supreme mystery, known by the select. And so they and the Templars outside this inner circle were fighting in the same direction but with very different beliefs. And thus the disparity in tortured confessions.

Now if they worshiped this "head" and believed it was the head of Jesus, they perhaps considered the physical head as proof that Jesus was just a man and not God. Someone help me here. What is the traditional interpretation of what happened to the physical body of Jesus? Did it ascend or something along those lines?

Mod Edit: Removed Quote Of Copyrighted Content.

[edit on 24/4/2010 by Mirthful Me]

reply to post by Rockpuck

I'd assume if such a place exist that indeed having a penis is not required for entry... but it is for Masonry.. which is not heaven, it's a fraternity.

A fraternity that some have claimed does not push a belief system or religion on its members. A fraternity that one would come to believe is composed of the epitome of the salt of the earth if we took everything that is being said about Masonry at face value or how most of its supporters swear there is no agenda or required belief system. I've been following along closely and I believe I should point a few things out.

Masonry hasn't existed for thousands of years, and it grew out of a Patriarchal society (English Law, unlike something like say brehon law) .. it was rare in European societies at the time of Masonry's conception to allow women to join such organizations.. Masonry has not changed much since that time.

Women can be part of the Masonic club if they wish. A friend of mine has a few of his relatives, who are women, in the Eastern Stars. I'm sure you've heard of them? This is a little known organization.

The Order of the Eastern Star is the largest fraternal organization in the world that both men and women can join. It was established in 1850 by Rob Morris, a lawyer and educator from Boston, Massachusetts, who had been an official with the Freemasons. It is based on teachings from the Bible, but is open to people of all monotheistic faiths. It has approximately 10,000 chapters in twenty countries and approximately one million members under its General Grand Chapter. Members of the Order are aged 18 and older; men must be Master Masons and women must have specific relationships with Masons. Originally, a woman would have to be the daughter, widow, wife, sister, or mother of a master Mason, but the Order now allows other relatives as well as allowing Job's Daughters, Rainbow Girls, and Triangle Girls to become members when they become of age.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6ae9891fdb4e.png[/atsimg]

en.wikipedia.org...

Now that is an odd symbol to have as a logo isn't it? They do not push a belief system or religion either I suppose. Now with all of the symbology that Masonic rituals utilize and other affiliated organizations display, one could be led to believe that they do in fact push a belief system. Or am I deluded?

We've seen the pictures in this very thread of Masons having rituals with the Eye of Horus and a penis under a pyramid present. All very religious looking to me. I'm sure I can find some more examples but I don't feel it is necessary to get my point across. That there is in fact a belief system and or a religion associated with Masonry that has to do with what most would consider occult practices. Can you see my point?

[edit on 24-4-2010 by jackflap]

reply to post by Dock9


That is some very interesting information you supplied. Thanks. It really needs a thread of it's own!

reply to post by Afewloosescrews


So, what you are basically passing on is second hand information, which you are stating as fact. It's fine to pass along second hand information, as we all do it, but do it with the caveat - "I've read," or "I've heard," etc. Otherwise you're not being honest or fair. Unless you experienced it first hand, it's just hearsay, and that never holds up in court.

As for Lucifer and Satan - those are both titles and epithets, applied to various deities and human beings within scripture, including Jesus himself. This is the same conversation I have with Satanists and Luciferians, too, so don't think I'm singling you out for your beliefs. It is necessary to specify which Lucifer or Satan we are referring to.

reply to post by jackflap


The Order of the Eastern Star logo is actually a Christian Morning Star. It used to be quite a common Christian symbol.

reply to post by Hemisphere

Now if they worshiped this "head" and believed it was the head of Jesus, they perhaps considered the physical head as proof that Jesus was just a man and not God. Someone help me here. What is the traditional interpretation of what happened to the physical body of Jesus? Did it ascend or something along those lines?

If you truly want to understand the Knights Templar and all the other Knightly Orders you must first understand exactly what a Knight is and whence and where they sprang from.

The Equestrian Order or Equites, were a noble and semi-noble class of Roman Citizens who had a State Obligation to employ yesteryears version of Shock and Awe, by being mounted combatants.

Cavalry was terrifying to the average foot soldier in armies, they moved faster than humans on foot, stood higher on their horses than humans on foot, and could leap over and into defensive lines of men, with the distinct advantage of being able to attack from the high ground.

The Equestrian Order was a stage in most noble Roman’s career; you had to have wealth to own horses, feed them, house them and train them, and leisure time to learn to ride them well in battle.

Arguably one of the most formidable parts of the Roman’s army, or anyone’s army for that fact, was the Cavalry because of their ability to induce Shock and Awe.

Eventually the State recognized the supreme importance of the Equestrians in its ever expanding desire to conquer, plunder and control more territories and loosened the standards of Noble Birth somewhat, and provided Equestrians with horses and a stipend, so there would be no shortage of them, during wars and conquests.

All Knights are members of the Equestrian Order, the Roman Equestrian Order.

Now it is said, that the greatest trick the Devil ever played was convincing people he did not exist.

In a world of polar opposites, of black and white, and up and down and left and right, of heaven and hell, we therefore most apply the opposite to arrive at the truth at the other end of the scale.

So if the Devil’s greatest trick was convincing people he never existed, God, the Christian’s God greatest trick therefore would have had to be convincing people he did exist.

In fact Jesus Christ = Julius Caesar
Judas = Brutus
The twelve disciples = the twelve lictors

The Bible like the Equestrian Order is Roman inventions.

Much of it is purely metaphorical and allegorical. Rome was founded by Romulus and Remus who were descended from the Trojan prince Aeneas, who fled to Italy, via Carthage when Troy fell.

The principle deity to the Trojans was Apollo, the God of the Sun.

Sun = Son

The Sun of God = the Son of God

Christianity, and all Christianity is Romanized, since it all stems from the concepts put forth by Constantine in his ecumenical council have been trained to worship the Sun, the Son of God, the Sun of God.

So your question should be what happened to the body of Julius Caesar who died for your sins on the Roman Senate’s floor.

Caesar though, just like the Roman Empire, did not die, did not die on the Ides of March, but was merely gravely wounded. Anthony, Octavian and Lepidus conducted a mock funeral ceremony and pyre, using another man’s shrouded body after secretly spiriting the gravely wounded Caesar away to safety.

Where did they take him that would be safe to hide him? As Rome’s High Priest and Auger they took him to the Holiest place in the Roman Republic, to Seborga, a small remote Roman State on the top of the boot of the Mediterranean, whose recessed hill, hidden from the sea was reputed to be Mt. Olympus.

Caesar regained consciousness seven days after the attack on 3/22 which is the secret of the Skull and Bones 322.

3/22 is the date Caesar was resurrected. He went on to live another 13 years, ruling Rome behind the scenes through Anthony, Lepidus, and Octavian.

Now it just so happens, that by the early Middle Ages that Seborga was ruled by Prince Abbots, and that hill had an Abbey sitting on top of it. It’s where 7 wealthy knights from Europe stopped to pray on their way to the Crusades that in exchange for all their worldly possessions, were dubbed the Poor Knights of Christ, and had one of the Monks from the Abbey assigned to their party, who became the original Grand Masters of the Knights Templar.

So in exchange for all their wealth, they were told the secret, that Equestrians fight for Rome, and Rome was conquering the world, through Religion, the Religion of Christianity, patterned off of a deity that never existed, to get people to obey Roman law, without the need for a massive enforcement structure of men at arms, and to get people to fight each other, to utilize divide and conquer warfare to create a Roman ruled, one world Government.
That perpetuating these myths and fighting for them was vital to that plan. That they fought for the true Christ, which is Caesar.

Like all Equestrians do, whether they are privy to that secret or not.

Naturally the Templar Knights would have had very little reason to believe in Christ since they knew the truth that Christ never existed!

Yet carelessly worshipping other deities, just as the high priestly class, within the Vatican Sun Cult does, but secretly and discretely, led to their leaders who were doing this openly as being a liability. So just like Stalin would purge the Red Army, Rome purged the Templar Knights, and faked it’s death, and then morphed them into the Masons, to continue their fight for Rome and the One World Empire, mimicking biblical prophecy, through orchestrating political events, as to play to the superstitions instilled through Christianity and to limit resistance to these machinations that it is God’s will and plan, and not Caesars!

Masons who are the building blocks of the pyramid, simply exist to form the walls and the boundaries of the Roman prison, so no one can find out the higher truths, that lay outside of those walls.

It’s why they quickly descended on Vincent. That is there job, they are minders, of us profanes, who might question the status quo and the myths.

reply to post by DaisyAnne

The Order of the Eastern Star logo is actually a Christian Morning Star. It used to be quite a common Christian symbol.

It really is strange to me then. An affiliated Masonic club that embraces a religious symbol? I am just wondering what the interior pentagon has to do with it too? It kind of reminds me of this.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f2f01f47837a.jpg[/atsimg]

Which is a pattern that the planet Venus lays out for us in the heavens on a regular basis. The ancient Mayan calendar was actually calculated using the cycles of the planet Venus. Might these seemingly innocent symbols actually be a sacred geometrical design that is displayed to inspire the inner being? Or is displayed to inspire reverence and fear?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Thanks PT. I should have known you would have a clear grasp of this. And so Knights to this day are protectors of the Roman Empire selected from outside of royalty. Of course the royals/select themselves wouldn't risk life and limb. The Knights were privileged henchmen operating from the illusion of high ground. Physical high ground and what they considered moral high ground. Where in fact their strength of purpose was built on their secret knowledge that there was no moral high ground. That their possession of that knowledge allowed them to delineate what morality was for the citizenry of the Empire and still is.

I have long imagined that the hierarchy of the Vatican is charged with this same knowledge. In that there is no God and that they alone are the masters of morality. And so Catholics too have no idea what is known in their inner circle. And so the secret Vatican Library, filled with stories and heads only viewed by the select as a test of their loyalty after nearly a lifetime of indoctrination and lesser tests. Where have I run across that concept before? Don't mind me, I have a vivid imagination.

The proof of loyalty for that inner circle of Templars would be worshiping the head, literally the "Godhead". At the moment of that ultimate test, a Knight still holding to the standard fare that Jesus was in fact God would not bow to the head fearing for his eternal soul. I can imagine that happened as Knights were tested with this for the first time. I can imagine that those Knights that were too hesitant in their adoration disappeared much like the OP of this thread. I wonder was Vinny presented with a "head" at that conference? A "head" of state perhaps?

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

The only price that he would pay for lying is his credibility on this forum.

This is parsing of the words and highly suggestive.

Proto said, he would pay a penalty for betraying Masonic secrets if in fact he is a Mason.

Betraying and lying are two distinctly different things. That his potential betrayals of the Masonic Secrets is being suggestively imparted as ‘lying’ is in fact indicative of how serious, some Mason’s do take it, when a Masonic Brother speaks of things he is not supposed to, to profanes.

Yet at the same time, Masons will be the first to tell us, that there is no Supreme Masonic Authority.

So unless there was a Supreme Masonic Authority, and you were that Supreme Masonic Authority, it is equally assumptive and suggestive to claim Vincent will suffer no penalty, save on these forums, for his betrayal of the Brotherhood.

Now, having said that, Modern Day Masons claim that the punishments for betraying the Brotherhood are simply allegorical and meaningless symbolic things that constitute no real penalty, or conspiracy to punish an errant brother outside the confines and the scope of the Law, yet history itself provides us real examples of Masons paying the ultimate penalty of forfeiture of life itself, for betraying Masonic secrets.

Of course like everything else regarding Masonic Secrets, these accounts are hotly contested by Masons with various theories on how they are lies, just to slander Masons.

In fact, when it comes to anything at all, that is revealed about Masonry, it is typically then portrayed as a lie by Masons, who simply tell us it is a lie, because they know what the truth is, that they can’t share!

However, it would likely fall upon Vincent’s Lodge Master, and the members of that Lodge, in order to met out punishment, which, even as a fellow Mason, you might not be made privy too.

If Vincent is a Mason, Vincent will be punished for revealing his story, no if’s ands or buts about it!

Or maybe he got caught lying?

The truth is, when it comes to the Masons, truth becomes a highly subjective thing, since they never reveal the 'truth' of their craft, but simply proclaim, what in their estimation is a 'lie'.

So without that Truth of what their craft really is, as it is known by the very highest Masons, there is no yardstick for profanes, or even low level masons, to measure, what is really an untruth.

Independent research, displayed there are some elements of truth to Vincent's story.

There was an International Gnostic Templar conference nearby that Masons were invited too. There was a Jewelry convention taking place.

There are presently more reasons to believe Vincent was attempting to tell the truth, as best as he knew it, without placing himself in total jeapordy.

Which he might have realized once the Wolf Pack set upon him, he was in fact in jeapordy for revealing just the select snippettes he felt it safe to convey.

I am sure that you do, since if he lied about this then other aspects of his story may also be untrue.

In all serious Proto, if he came here and said he fabricated that part about being a Mason; how would that affect your opinion of him in regards truthfulness overall?

Wonderful gifts have sometimes been known to come in ugly wrappers.

Worthless and harmful gifts have been known to sometimes come in beautiful wrappers.

The Trojan Horse comes to mind as an example.

Yet Spies of agencies like the CIA routinely lie to establish covers.

Agents of agencies like the FBI routinely lie to establish covers.

Yet in that latter case, the evidence the bring into the court rooms, is generally judged by quantified standards objectively, without being tarnished in part or in whole, by the fact that the person who obtained the truth, did so through a deception, and misrepresentation of himself.

The truth would be the truth, line item, by line item as it checks out.

If the truth on line 2, is false, it does not make the truth of line item 3, or 4, if it is rooted in fact, false by extension of the falicy of line item 2.

While many are prone to be emotionally manipulated to throw the baby out along with the bathwater, I am not one of them.

There are ellements of potential truth in Vincent's story!

Thanks my friend.

[edit on 24/4/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by Dock9


I would have liked to have seen those before they were removed Dock.

Maybe you could u2u one of the Mods at the bottom of the page to find out what the offense was?

Were the post from the same books as the previous posts you made? if so thats really weird.