Obama may not be allowed to go to Arizona if this immigration bill passes.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

I already have documents that prove I am an American citizen, a Driver's license and Social Security Card. Plus I have a birth certificate, such as it is.

Thats wonderful. If you can tolerate having to show identification to prove you were born in this country day in and day out, somebody needs to pat you on the back.

To be declared a "Son Of A Nation" one does not need to be born there. More birther yap.

INS. Customs, Border or any other of the Alphabet Agencies more then has the authouirty to do precisely what the Arizona bill now allows.

This is one of the first times a Federal Authourity now being law on the State level gets me worrying. When Gov. Jan Brewer (D-AZ) signs it and she will this opens a paradox to territory yet really uncharted at the State level. Arizona could be in fact the testrun or prototype program for a more then likely nationwide usage. I know Califorina, New York, New Jersey, Florida, Texas, New Mexico, Lousiana. Connecticut, Washington, Michigan would all be salivating to take this on as all mentioned have intracate and what is no doubt highy sensitive from a security standpoint the fact that like 90% of all land entry into The USA is done in the states mentioned. The other 10% are the rest.

Obama is a legitimate and certified US Passport holder that decrees him free reign of travel to anywhere he needs or wants to go. Even though not particularly not on his person it is kept nearby always. Home and Birth nation of Obama. It is true he did live in Kenya and Indonesia but the fact he was born in the US and his mother as his legal custodial parent decreed that she never forfeited or surrendered her's or Obama's citizenship declaration.

You can live out of the country for 25 years as long as you do not file papers with the US State Department or the INS, DHS that you intend to forfeit or surrender your citizenship you remain a full fledged citizen in good standing of The United States Of America. The US is not allowed to hinder this.

This is exactly what birthers wanted. Smell that? That's the smell of Fascism. Isn't it such a lovely scent?

This is what they wanted all along, to destroy the 4th Amendment, I have been saying it for nearly a year now. Well, you can thank a birther for laws like this.



[edit on 4/23/2010 by whatukno]

Originally posted by whatukno
This is exactly what birthers wanted. Smell that? That's the smell of Fascism. Isn't it such a lovely cent?

This is what they wanted all along, to destroy the 4th Amendment, I have been saying it for nearly a year now. Well, you can thank a birther for laws like this.

Well since it is such a lovely "cent", I thought I would add my two sense!

Yeah, destroy the 4th amendment. As JPZ has stated, if one actually knew the laws and their rights, all one would have to do is state "am I being detained"? "Am I under arrest and what is the charge"? Now, if the po po go any further, without probable cause everything following would be thrown out in a "real court of law".

Are you arguing that there are no real courts of law anymore wuk? Are you beginning to argue what I have been arguing all this time?

C'mon wuk, can't be arguing my side of the debate here. Can't actually admit that I HAVE BEEN RIGHT ALL ALONG, can you?

reply to post by endisnighe


We all know that Wuk likes to engage in his own profiling and could care less about the nuances and subtleties of people and would rather just categorize and demonize himself.

Ring, ring. Ring, Ring.

Hello?

Hello Kettle? This is Pot; You're black!

reply to post by endisnighe


But that's what birthers wanted. The complete and total destruction of the 4th Amendment just to get one man, one man they have political differences with.

So they make up some phony baloney conspiracy, push it to it's extreme, then when someone finally appeals to these nut jobs, they act shocked that it might bite them on the ass.

I think it's more of a careful what you wish for scenario.

reply to post by whatukno


But you have to admit it is kinda weird not to release the info isnt it? It makes me wonder his record should be public knowledge for historians and for the peace of mind of the American people he is the President and people should be able to study him for histories sake if nothing else.

[edit on 23-4-2010 by Subjective Truth]

reply to post by Subjective Truth


I don't know because that is off topic to this thread. This thread is about how thanks to birthers, now everyone in Arizona has lost their 4th Amendment rights.

It is the ultimate goal of the birthers right? To have police have the ability to demand papers from anyone based on any reason?

Birthers should be happy! Well done! Just have to take down the rest of the bill of rights and you can have your fascist government that you always wanted free from any "undesirables"

I mean that is the point of this thread. Endisnighe gloating about how Obama may have to surrender paperwork to the police with no warrant, no probable cause. It's just what he wanted! Hell, he was happy about people in America having this fundamental freedom stripped from them.

Hell, he was practically GIDDY to learn that the rights of the people of Arizona were being pillaged from them, in the slight hope that Obama would be subject to such an unconstitutional law.

[edit on 4/23/2010 by whatukno]

reply to post by endisnighe


End...why do you continue to dodge my question? I'll repeat it again..for the third time...try to answer it this time.


Which document do you have that shows your CURRENT LEGAL STATUS??? Which document says that between date x and date y that you are a legal citizen of the United States??? Don't try to dodge it...just answer the "frelling" question.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


I am NOT a citizen of the United States.

That is not a country. That is a Corporation.

The country of the United States of America, I am a sovereign citizen of.

That being proven by my knowledge and affirmation of it.

You would want me to provide proof?

How, by a birth certificate? That would prove I am an asset of the United States Corporation.

How, by a State ID or Driver's License? That would be proof that I signed a contract with the STATE of _________ for some contractual obligations by me and the state and also affirming I would follow the statutes that, that contract pertains to.

How, by showing a SOCIALISTS SECURITY card? That would only prove another contract to sign me up for an ILLEGAL PONZI scheme created to steal the wealth of the nation and to control us.

One thing I could do to prove my existence as a sovereign citizen of the United States of America, I could declare it.

There you go, proof. All one has to do is have the knowledge and one BECOMES.

reply to post by endisnighe


Your ability to clearly and concisely explain simple concepts of law improves vastly with each day! Bravo End, Bravo!

reply to post by endisnighe


LOL


So...by your own logic...as long as an "illegal" immigrant declares he is a sovereign citizen of the United States of America...then that should be enough...right???

It is enough for you...right? So it should be enough for ANYONE. Or do you think you are special???

So how can you demand ANYONE to prove their legal status if you are not willing to do so?

End...as you get backed into a corner your logic becomes more and more desperate...just give it up.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Did not understand the concept?

I am not the one backing into a corner, you are.

I am finding all the arguments people are giving against this legislation is beginning to prove my arguments.

You do not even realize it.

Here is the thing, no one can PROVE that I am a citizen of another country. That maybe is the thing that is needed. The documentation that they are citizens of another country.

That could be the trick.

reply to post by endisnighe


Are you ok End??? Because you are not making one bit of sense today.

You want people to prove you are NOT a citizen of another country??? And you accused ME of wanting you to prove a negative???? Maybe you don't understand what the concept of "proving a negative" means.


It's a simple question End....PROVE your legal status as a resident/citizen of the United States of America.

Here...we will play a game. Assume you are in Arizona and you are speeding on the highway. I am a police officer in Arizona and I pull you over for speeding. It is my right to confirm your legal status now...so I am asking you to prove to me that you are a CURRENT legal resident/citizen. Now...what document are you going to show me...if it doesn't tell me that officially that you are a current citizen TODAY...I am going to cuff you and detain you until I can contact the Feds to confirm your status. So...what documents are you going to show me???

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


If I might interject for a brief moment:

Here is the thing, no one can PROVE that I am a citizen of another country. That maybe is the thing that is needed. The documentation that they are citizens of another country.

~Endisnighe~

OutKast, I am not certain, but I think End is just thinking out loud with that statement. He is looking for practical solutions in which immigration laws can be enforced without violating the law. He very well might have a point, although I don't know how practical that point is, but if there is some valid evidence that shows a person is here illegally then LEO's have full authority to act upon that evidence and detain the person in question for questioning. Again, I have no idea how practical such an idea is, but I understand it.



[edit on 23-4-2010 by Jean Paul Zodeaux]

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

You could be right about the national id thingy. But perhaps a different version of driver license or ss card is enough to confirm whether you're a citizen or not.

Opponents call new driver's license rules for foreign nationals 'institutionalized racism'

AUSTIN – Opponents of strict new driver’s license requirements for foreign nationals are calling on state leaders to rescind the rules, which will make immigrants’ licenses and identification cards look visibly different from those issued to U.S. citizens.

Otherwise, you have to carry one of these documents around.

Proof of U.S. Citizenship

* Previously issued, undamaged US passport
* Certified birth certificate issued by the city, county or state of birth
* Consular Report of Birth (of U.S. citizen) Abroad or Certification of Birth
* Naturalization Certificate
* Certificate of Citizenship

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Very astute observation JPZ, yes, I was thinking out loud.

Now here is the thing, if the Mexican government actually gave the US a list of people that have not been accounted for over the last 5 years or so, we could maybe have a list compiled of at least people that may be here.

What to do with it is another thing.

And for Mexico to actually do that would be another pipedream because this is helping their economy by people sending money back to their country.

Oh well.

reply to post by endisnighe


You know, I came up with an idea while posting in Janky's thread a few days ago. I don't know if you read it, but I would like to share it with you here. As far as rounding up "illegals" I have no answers for you and I believe you know my stance on such a thing. Unless there is credible and convincing evidence that a person is here illegally, they are protected by natural rights that would prevent any sort of "rounding up". That said, there are people discovered to be here illegally every day, and here is what I suggest we begin doing with these people.

Put them on a bus, escorted by LEO's and ship them all to Washington D.C., and do this as often as we can, each and every state, until the damn federal government gets the message and starts to do the job they were tasked to do.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux






Alright, there is using your brain.

I just had a brain saturation of epic proportions.

What you stated, in regards to Washington DC. What if a state passed legislation that stated that illegal immigrants could move onto federal lands and take them as their own. The federal government has decided they want the extra citizens, so be it, they can house them or give them FREE land.

Sounds like an AWESOME IDEA.

Originally posted by endisnighe


Any Arizona Police Officers out there that are birthers?

I thought you had been so busy defending this law because of how constitutional it is. Now you are advocating that they detain someone without probable cause?