The Great Global Warming Blunder: How Mother Nature Fooled the World’s Top Climate Scientists

Originally posted by Helmkat
reply to post by Unnoan

 

We can play our fiddles while Rome burns, arguing if the fire is arson or a lightening strike but it doesn't change the fact the city is still burning and we better do something about it. Both sides point at the other and argue but can't we still carry some buckets to the fire while we argue?

To make this a valid comparison, you would have to say that if lightning strikes caused the fire, the lightning is going to continue to strike constantly for infinity. And if a match caused it, we can stop making matches.

It's just not a valid comparison. Plus you would have to say that the eye witness who SAW the person throw down the match sent an email saying that he didn't really see the guy throw the match to a friend of his who confirmed that only a match could've started the fire.

You can either build a fire proof tent to live in and hope that the lightning stops striking, or you can pay for others to live in fire proof tents while your putting out a fire that isn't even there...

Jaden

I see this is something about Roy Spencer and his book about a blunder...

Is he giving us the background to his and John Christy's schoolboy errors in their satellite model that allowed them to feed the denial-go-round for about a decade until someone kindly pointed out their crappy maths?

Or is he laying down more smoke and mirrors?

ABE: A capture from Spencer's blog post, lol





[edit on 21-4-2010 by melatonin]

Originally posted by Helmkat
reply to post by Unnoan

 

We can play our fiddles while Rome burns, arguing if the fire is arson or a lightening strike but it doesn't change the fact the city is still burning and we better do something about it. Both sides point at the other and argue but can't we still carry some buckets to the fire while we argue?

Those "buckets" are actually taxes. So, you are really asking "Shouldn't we all just pay taxes to fix the problem, and then argue whether or not we actually have a problem?"

reply to post by Masterjaden


Really its not valid? Because to know for certain one way or the other would be knowledge and allow us to make informed decisions. Such knowledge will lead us to be better managers of our planets ecosystems. Someday if we don't blow ourselves up first we may actually begin to terraform other worlds but to do that we have understand our own first.

Originally posted by CDippa

Originally posted by Helmkat
reply to post by Unnoan

 

We can play our fiddles while Rome burns, arguing if the fire is arson or a lightening strike but it doesn't change the fact the city is still burning and we better do something about it. Both sides point at the other and argue but can't we still carry some buckets to the fire while we argue?

Those "buckets" are actually taxes. So, you are really asking "Shouldn't we all just pay taxes to fix the problem, and then argue whether or not we actually have a problem?"

The buckets are actually Humans behaving responsibly. So I am really saying "We have an issue here, lets do what we can where we can."

Originally posted by Helmkat
The buckets are actually Humans behaving responsibly. So I am really saying "We have an issue here, lets do what we can where we can."

Oh really, because that's not how I interpreted cap-and-trade legislation. That bill is what they will use as the "buckets to put the AGW fire out", and it involves a higher level of taxation.

reply to post by ALLis0NE


if you read that wiki article. it shows that the earth naturally changes the ph of soil naturally depending on environmental factors.

Though if we are polluting the environment with chemicals then the natural balance can't be established.

I'm starting to think that we should be worrying more about pollution than CO2 in the atmosphere.

The earth can adjust for CO2 by itself. But if there's too much pollution that method of adjustment doesn't work well.
Maybe that's our issue.

Not CO2 emissions, Pollution.

Exactly! Al Gore is himself An Inconvenient truth....pick up the book State of Fear by Michael Crichton-it may be fiction, but goes into the many falsehoods of "Global Warming" and how EVERYONE has an agenda to benefit themselves, even if they are trying to save the planet....and by the way, who says were are here to save Earth? It's been here long before humans and will exist after-she's quite resilient. Global Warming is just another scare tactic to keep the sheep in line and have them by Honda Priuses to reduce their carbon footprint.

LINK

NOAA ADMITS temperature ERROR and FAULTY equipment BUT THEY ARE STILL GOING TO KEEP THE FLAWED TEMPERATURE RECORD AND “NEW HIGHS

LINK

UN admits flaw in report on meat and climate change
The UN has admitted a report linking livestock to global warming exaggerated the impact of eating meat on climate change.

LINK

(Reuters) - The U.N. panel of climate experts overstated how much of the Netherlands is below sea level, according to a preliminary report on Saturday, admitting yet another flaw after a row last month over Himalayan glacier melt.

LINK

NASA was able to put a man on the moon, but the space agency can’t tell you what the temperature was when it did. By its own admission, NASA’s temperature records are in even worse shape than the besmirched Climate-gate data.

E-mail messages obtained by a Freedom of Information Act request reveal that NASA concluded that its own climate findings were inferior to those maintained by both the University of East Anglia’s Climatic Research Unit (CRU) — the scandalized source of the leaked Climate-gate e-mails — and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s National Climatic Data Center.

This is about control and money, not the environment.

Which is in fact worse; a rise in sea level of a few inches in the next hundred years, or Cap and Trade which would drive food and energy prices up 25% (quoting Obama) which would result in a huge increase in the worlds rate of starvation?

Why would Politicians be willing to take a step, in the middle of a recession that would cause even more human suffering? Because they don't care! It is about power, money and control. Period, end of subject. Environmentalists are being used and judging how easy they are to control, they perhaps deserve to be used.

In a University course in 1973 I was taught that within thirty years all tree's would be dead, all Salmon would be gone, all North American forests of course would be gone, all oil would be exhausted and huge portions of the world would starve because of the lack of arable land.

What happened? There are more standing trees in North America today than when the Pilgrims landed. We have been having many unexpectedly large Salmon runs. Bald Eagles are thick as flies. Polar Bears have rebounded from a few hundred to many thousands. Caribou Herds are so big they are nearly out of control from over-protection. We now know we have barely put a dent in the oil. Farm land is sitting idle because crops per acre are up as much as 40 times.

What has not happened? The doomsayers have yet to come up with an alternative energy source. Places like China and India who are causing a catastrophe are ignored while condemning the countries that have done the most for the environment. Scientists sold out to the politicians for money. The Universities are nothing but government shills for the radical left. Truth has left the equation. Gore who left the White House with only a half million in personal wealth is now worth over a hundred million on a Professors Salary and he will become a Billionaire on day one after Cap and Trade passes.

Safe, clean and reliable nuclear power plants are not being built due to an impossible permitting system, lies from activists and phony law suits to the point nobody is willing to build one. Nuclear power is no longer risky and if the environmentalist were telling the truth, they would be demanding we build them as fast as possible to get rid of the coal plants. They are not fooling anybody. They don't give a damn about the environment. Lying, economy destroying, starvation causing, attention seeking........

That about sums it up.

Originally posted by treesdancing

Originally posted by DEEZNUTZ
reply to post by ibiubu

 

What everyone seems to be missing is that the Ice Core data clearly shows a direct relationship between atmospheric CO2 levels and Global Temperatures. The only thing is that this relationship goes back 450000 years plus and it's clearly a natural cycle. Man-made global warming has only pushed back the time of the next Ice Age and is probably screwing up Mother Nature's way of dealing with this Natural Cycle.

Good point. The ice core data also shows that changes in CO2 levels trail temperature by approximately 800 years. TEMPERATURE DRIVES CO2 LEVELS through natural processes of organic growth and decay. This presentation by Professor Bob Carter explores this in detail. Excellent presentation :

It seems as though even the readers of that bastion of AGW propaganda, realclimate.org, have difficulty stomaching this rather weak post attempting to debunk the significance of this 800 year gap. Have a look at the comments.

[edit on 21-4-2010 by treesdancing]

Please complete your "selective quotes" about the CO2 research related to temperature.....I won't hold my breathe because you and I both know where that leads, hence why you have "accidentally" forgotten to add it.

Typical selective skeptic distortions.

OK skeptics. There is no need to keep harping on. The politicians with short term goals LOVE you lot you give them an excuse to do nothing. You have "won" we are too late, the world is now heading for a significant climate shift. It is already happening!!!!

Congratulations, reams of scientific data ignored or even worse : cherry picked to save your fat pocket.

The point everyone focusses on is C02, but the real issue we should be focussing on is wastefulness, pollution and destruction of the natural habitat. Focusing on 'low carbon' fuels seems to be the focus to a contradictory degree. Take Palm Oil that everyone is focussing on as a replenish-able 'bio-fuel'. It may be better in terms of C02 compared to petrol, but when you take into mind the amount of rainforest cut down to grow the stuff, then the loss of valuable wildlife, medicine from the natural plants (as we all know the majority of medicines come from plants in this area) and then the amount of C02 that is actually stored in these trees and it all seems like a bit of a joke (and that's assuming you actually believe the GW stories in the first place!).

mass consumption and throw-away manufacturing plus pollution does have a serous effect on the environment and the planet as a hole. I don't think the real issue is down to Global Warming, it's about making some form of sustainability for everyone before we end up running out of oil, gas and having cut down all the trees on the planet... THEN realising we're f*cked. No food, no power just a mass expanse of concrete across the whole planet. The fact that the majority of the worlds fish reserves are on a path to be wiped out in 30 years should be enough of a sign on it's own.

Technology and progression are essential for societies progression, but there needs to be some balance between using up everything on the face of the planet, and working in smarter ways whereby we get more but use less resources through efficiency, better growing techniques and the use of REAL science etc.

Anyway, enough ranting now, it just really bugs me how governments pick up on something like this and focus on a 'solution' that actually creates more problems than the initial problem they are trying to solve.

Originally posted by malcr
OK skeptics. There is no need to keep harping on. The politicians with short term goals LOVE you lot you give them an excuse to do nothing. You have "won" we are too late, the world is now heading for a significant climate shift. It is already happening!!!!

Congratulations, reams of scientific data ignored or even worse : cherry picked to save your fat pocket.

Christ....for several years some others and I have been warning about NATURAL CLIMATE CHANGE....but of course since the facts, and evidence time and again shows people like you are wrong you continue to claim "look Climate change is happening"...we told you.."...

Well...several of us told you about NATURAL CLIMATE CHANGE before AGW became the new "religion"....

Every planet, and moon with an atmosphere is undergoing Climate Change, just like Earth...but you people claim it has nothing to do with what is happening to Earth even though it is also a known fact that the Sun had been at the highest level in over 1,000-1,500 years or more for the last 100 years....

There is NOTHING that can be done to stop Climate Change.... If you want to wait for your saviours to "stop the heavens, and the Universe from moving" you better exhale and wait without breathing and see how soon they come to your rescue....

Those who always thought they could control nature ALWAYS found their deaths at the hands of NATURE.... whether you learn your lesson is up to you and the other AGW fanatics...

Originally posted by crezo
The point everyone focusses on is C02, but the real issue we should be focussing on is wastefulness, pollution and destruction of the natural habitat.
........

Yet what are most people, at least those who keep beleiving the AGW lie, concentrate on?... CO2.... Taxes on CO2.... Cap and Trade.... Sequestration of atmospheric CO2...

Most people have been brainwashed to accept the AGW lie at face value, and to "beleive" in it, as the new age religion...

The AGW fanatics still want to introduce more carbon taxes, FORCE more controls on individuality and Freedom, as well as sequestering CO2 which will only cause nature to die....

NO ONE really wants to do what is needed to stop the real pollutants. they rather beleive a lie, and the scam that is AGW than embrace the truth...

Just look at Kyoto protocol, and other similar laws, and programs the rich elites want to pass, and the AGW fanatics are cheering for like their new "saviour"...

The U.S. is not the one doing the deforestation, yet you people claim that we shouldn't wage war, but what do you want for the U.S. to wage war and DEMAND for the countries that are doing deforestation, etc to clean up their act?....

The AGW fanatics are not interesting in cleaning up their act either, they much rather keep believing the AGW lie, and that is the main problem.



[edit on 21-4-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

@ElectricUniverse

Of topic but like your Avatar thought that movie was awesome.

I absolutely love this thread. Global warming is a joke. I'm not as well versed in my knowledge as many as you are, but the first thing that started to raise flags for me is the fact that Al gore himself refuses to debate the matter.

If we as a race could learn anything at all it should be that life is all about cause and effect. I love all the liberals that sit around and go we need to get rid of our carbon foot print. Well the only way to stop the idea of global warming would be to eliminate modern day life. Seriously go back to the stoneage. No one is willing to do that and liberals fly just as many private jets as the republicans. It's a complete joke. Obama really cares about our environment sending a 747 to take pictures of the statue of liberty? He has done nothing. No one has done anything. Not one republican, not one liberal.

Ok and say we as a race go completely green? We harvest all the sun's rays, we no longer travel by car or anything(even the car parts being made make pollution so absolutely no transport at all), Eliminate all manufacturing jobs which in turn would be a domino affect eliminating every job the politicians that steal our money being very last. That's the only point in time we will see real change not the type obama speaks of.

Surely their is a cause and effect of going completely green. Their has to be. Everything in life follows the path of least resistance.

We can not escape mother nature as so many liberals think we can. We do what she says, their is no shaping her.

I really wish that I could live long enough to see every liberals face when earth follows the warming with a great cooling AGAIN. History repeated, but ignored once again, but this time by shysty liberals that one to steal money out of everyones pocket not just Americans.

PS. It would be awesome if anyone could provide me a long list of facts against global warming. I have no where near enough time to do that from this thread with the end of the semester being here. I love debating my friends and if I had the evidence laid out here in this thread I believe I can change some minds or atleast frusturate and make some liberals very very angry.

While you idea is fine, I don't believe for a minute that "Mother Nature Fooled" the scientists as much as the NWO is staging the manipulation and scientists are trading favors with them. Always the idea is promoted that it's just simple innocence or ignorance of naivete that causes the political and social problems. Nothing could be further from the true.

The conspiracy about climate change is non-existent.

I'm not going to bother educating you all. It is very easy to find information on the viewpoints to which you subscribe, so you wont bother to look further.

When the world begins to change, you can also claim it is a cycle.

Its like an argument with a religious extremist, you can't win. 'Its the will of God' - 'Its a natural cycle', same turd different stink.

The systems we are talking about are so complex... To say I know exactly why would be arrogant, to say anthropogenic factors have no effect would be ignorant. Look at the world as a whole and not just how warm/cold it feels outside or what taxes people are trying to implement.

Sure the cap and trade/carbon tax is probably a wealth/power grab. It doesn't change the facts. Unfortunately, taxes are seen as the only option to ecological economists (yes they exist). Attributing value to the biosphere is incredibly difficult, but people wont voluntarily pay for a public good.

PS. Al f***ing Gore is not a factor.

-I'm a post-graduate in this specific area of expertise.

The problem stems from the corporate/consumer ideology and the way that people will happily free-load on a public good.



[edit on 22-4-2010 by seenitall]

Originally posted by melatonin
I see this is something about Roy Spencer and his book about a blunder...

Is he giving us the background to his and John Christy's schoolboy errors in their satellite model that allowed them to feed the denial-go-round for about a decade until someone kindly pointed out their crappy maths?

Or is he laying down more smoke and mirrors?

ABE: A capture from Spencer's blog post, lol

Oh boy...melatonin again... the main BELIEVER in AGW...

Give it up, everyone knows AGW has become a religion for the likes of you, and despite all the evidence you will continue "believing" in the lie/scam that is AGW...

[edit on 22-4-2010 by ElectricUniverse]