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The Earth provides for our every need for free.

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posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by sirnex
[url=http://www.off-grid.net/2005/10/10/600-gets-your-house-on-solar-power/]http://www.off-grid.net/2005/10/10/600-gets-your-house-on-solar-power/[/ur l]

Fossil fuels are more damaging.



Such ignorance. Have you ever watched a solar panel being made? I have. Apart fromt he fact it wastes up to 40% of the silicon, each layer of silicon is followed bya chemical filled wash. These chemicals are simply discharged into the sea in many cases. Every time a new silicon layer is created it is washed down. Nanosolar may be an interesting alternative, but it is said their panels won't last long as so pollution is still a big problem.


Originally posted by sirnex
Not advocating primitive living and have not made any mention of living like this myself, but was originally asking why we do what we do and then the discussion evolved into debating solutions to certain issues and now evolved into you both stupidly and ignorantly attempting to apply the 'hypocrite' label wrongly. I gots muh edumucation in publix skool!


Way to go using a further mocking tone. You have said mother nature provides everything we need. Others have then pointed out the obvious flaw in this statement, along with the obvious hypocrisy of you using a computer. I wonder why you continue when you have been shown to be wrong. Are you a troll? Or just utterly delusional? When presented with evidence to counter his opinion, the honest man will accept he was wrong. If you ar female then please use the appropriate words for your gender



Originally posted by sirnex

Reread my posts and reread the articles. I've not said anything that goes against the facts.


Actually you have repeatedly mentioned red meat being bad, in fact my reply to you directly quoted you saying red meat was bad.

Lol are you able to forget what you have written to preserve your ego?

Yeah i'm calling troll, i won't be posting again LMAO.




posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 03:02 PM
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reply to post by sirnex
 




I have watched it and no where do they discuss or show them dumping human excrement into their water.


Watch it again they say the waste water goes into a wetlands.



Your so full of crap. Resource wise, insects rule out over red meats which we shouldn't be eating anyways, and I did make mention of fish as another source of healthy animal protein which you promptly attacked in such a wonderful smart ass way.


There you just said it again we should not be eating meat. But all your crappy studdies that you put up were all based off people with a low meat diet not a no meat diet. So the human body can't digest meat but fish is alright? My body has no problem digesting meat or fish.



I'm not sure what or if there would be any differences at this time, bamboo cloth is relatively new.


Oh but somebody told you it was green is that what happened?



It's a bike that would have gone to the dump, so yes... 100% recycled.


You stole a bike out of the trash so that makes you captian planet?
but you tell lies. Earlier you said you drive a car to get to work


post by sirnex
Great strategy, move to a war ridden third world country, pure genius! Many of the thing's I own, like my car for instance I need to commute to and from work so someone else can make a tidy profit to buy 10 more cars than I own.




Lying and being a smart ass won't help your case. Refrigeration is a means of preservation, but I am looking into fermenting my fruits and vegetables as an alternative form of preservation which also allows them to keep in storage much longer than refrigeration.


So once again you use a fridge like everyone else does but you are better because you are "looking into" eating rotten food?



Learn how to apply hypocrite please. No where in any of my posts have I directly made mention unless specifically asked of which aspects of my life that I apply the various solutions I've discussed. No where in my OP do I even at all mention that I do all the thing's discussed in it. Many times I have mentioned that I am unable to do a few of the thing's I would like to do thanks to bad policy makers and people such as yourself. If you can't apply a word properly, perhaps you shouldn't try and argue.


You are a hypocrite and no i am not maker a policy you use everything you complain about when you have the choice not to. Im not complaining about how much emissions my chrysler makes. You have a computer a car a fridge and electricity from the grid but you post like you are better than everyone else because you "care".



Carbon credits are a marketing ploy, a complete scam. I'm still more green than McDonald's.


Where is you LEED certification, oh yeah what is your job?



never said I was completely off grid or green and I have mentioned that I am unable to practice certain thing's due to bad policy. There is no hypocrisy involved at all.


You can go live on one of the comunes like the dancing jack rabbit thing nobody is stopping you. you can go to the pet stores buy some crickets and start you own farm, unplug your computer and get your electricity turned off. But you don't because you think you "need" these things.

[edit on 27-4-2010 by zaiger]



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by zaiger
You stole a bike out of the trash so that makes you captian planet?
but you tell lies. Earlier you said you drive a car to get to work


Great strategy, move to a war ridden third world country, pure genius! Many of the thing's I own, like my car for instance I need to commute to and from work so someone else can make a tidy profit to buy 10 more cars than I own.




I think this pretty much proves the guy is a liar, a hypocrite and in my opinion a troll


Nice catch man, hard to get around this one bt i'm sure he'll try lying his way out of it



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 04:00 PM
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So now that we are 9 pages deep in this rubbish lets go over the OP again with the new information. Keep in mind all this info come right from the OP.



The Earth provides for our every need for free, so why do we work for others to earn an illusory unit of value to buy what is freely available?
Money only holds value because we BELIEVE it holds value. Personally, I put more value on those thing's that allow me to live; Food, water, shelter. Take away that belief in the value of money and it becomes utterly useless to our very existence. You can't trade a useless thing with someone who holds no value upon it.


from the op:
Well a resource based economy is the solution and the same thing. Lets base the economy off some arbitrary value we put on some resource.

Zaiger's take:
So according to our OP everything should be free in this resource based economy, which kind of defeats the purpose of the economy thing in the first place, oh well it does not have to make sense.



Even the concept of the all powerful government who has complete control over our very lives is utterly illusory. A person can only exert as much control as you ALLOW them to exert over you. No one is more powerful or worthy than the next. With this being true, why do we allow ourselves to be subjugated by others?

zaiger's take:
This im not sure of who would monitor this resource based economy? Who would stop people from dumping oil into the sea? It appears that you would support a government that was a green dictatorship.



Our planet, our one home provides freely for every single one of us, so long as we take only that which we need to live in a sustainable fashion. If we take from the Earth, we should give back to the Earth as a way of saying thank you for providing for us.

from the OP: Resource based economy!! We should harvest bamboo and farm bugs.

Zaiger's take: Good luck starting bamboo and bug farms with everyone working for free. And what is the difference between growing bamboo and replanting and growing lumber and replanting?



The Earth provides us free shelter as we can use the very dirt where we want to build our homes. The Earth provides us life giving water from lakes, streams and rain. The Earth gives us bountiful healthy nourishing food. The Earth provides free health care for every living creature. The thing's our ONE home provides us freely is endless. We should never have to want for anything, but we constantly do because we turn ourselves away from our home as if we're better than it.

From the OP:
We ahould live in dirt huts, drink from rivers and eat bugs.
Zaiger's take: The earth provides us with concrete and lumber to build homes too. The earth provides us cows to eat, but i know that is somehow different. He kind of dropped the whole free health care earth system and i think it is just because mother earth provides us with large ammounts of diseases and parasites in the form of "health care".



Instead of living in nature, we live outside of nature as if it's a thing we can do without. We pollute our air, our water and our food. We build shelters that forces us to destroy our forests that provide us with much needed fresh oxygen. We need to abolish this dead end lifestyle and realize it's doing more harm than good. We aren't living any longer than we have been for the last six thousand years. It's a complete myth that everyone died early in life in the past. Many notable figures in history are known to have lived just as long as anyone alive today and in perfectly good health. The key is proper nutrition, exercise and hygiene.

from the op:
people lived just as long 6,000 years ago as they did today.

zaiger's take:
With all the polution and horrible things man has done with the food if people were living the same length as they did 6,000 years ago it just goes to show you that all this new polution and GM modified food and meat diets have not really effected the life span in a negative way.


Oh and it gets better:

The government is bad, except when it writes you a check to buy a dehydrator and vaccuum sealer. Same goes with plastic bags and mylar.


I've been looking this up all day and found many great sites out there. I figured this would be of interest to some of the members here on ATS. I've read on one site that you can store a years worth of food for one person in a 2ftx3ft 5ft high space. I think I could get it stored with less space by packing it very neatly and by packaging it in vacuum sealed bags inside Mylar bags. If packaged and stored properly, such a setup could last one thirty years for most foods at room temperature.
Has anyone thought of doing this or has done it? I'm thinking of getting a decent dehydrator and vacuum sealer with my taxes.
www.abovetopsecret.com...


Oh and we should stop cutting down trees unless you go around cutting down pine sapplings.


www.abovetopsecret.com...
was thinking this could be modded to create a foldable door and a few windows built into the lattice framework, all that's needed is a way to lock the door and window frames into place so they're sturdy. I priced this thing to be under $1000 if put together yourself, which isn't too bad, but can be put together even cheaper if you gather pine saplings from the woods and make the poles yourself, need roughly 144 poles for this.

Now tell me exactly how were you going to replant 144 trees when you are to cheap to go out and buy wood?

and society has this thing about bugs which you dont understand


Also came up with a design for the yurt covering to be completely closed up so as to keep out all nasty critters and a light weight floor structure as well.


Oh yeah you call them nasty critters too


Was the human body meant to digest alcohol?

[edit on 27-4-2010 by zaiger]



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 08:34 PM
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I just saw that you logged on what happened to all the name calling and flashy comebacks?
Trying to harvest more sapplings for your little fort?



posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 01:43 PM
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reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984
 



You see how this would go on forever yes? People may then farm for food, working hard and others will ask them for their goods, being kind people they hand their goods over and they starve.


Your system won't work while humans are doing the manufacturing.


Whoa wait a minute, I never outlined any system and certainly not one anything like what your describing. Way to put words in my mouth!



Such ignorance. Have you ever watched a solar panel being made? I have. Apart fromt he fact it wastes up to 40% of the silicon, each layer of silicon is followed bya chemical filled wash. These chemicals are simply discharged into the sea in many cases. Every time a new silicon layer is created it is washed down. Nanosolar may be an interesting alternative, but it is said their panels won't last long as so pollution is still a big problem.


No, I don't know much about how they are made, only that the means of energy procurement through such technology is less environmentally damaging than strip mining entire ecosystems and mountain ranges causing other species to go extinct and making that previous usable land no longer of any use.


Way to go using a further mocking tone. You have said mother nature provides everything we need. Others have then pointed out the obvious flaw in this statement, along with the obvious hypocrisy of you using a computer. I wonder why you continue when you have been shown to be wrong. Are you a troll? Or just utterly delusional? When presented with evidence to counter his opinion, the honest man will accept he was wrong. If you ar female then please use the appropriate words for your gender


Oh gee, I'm sorry if I have to talk down and mockingly to people who can't even raise valid arguments and have to grasp at air in pitiful attempts to justify the ills of society. Again, it is not hypocritical of me using a computer as I've clearly stated NUMEROUS times again and again that I am NOT AGAINST technology. Please get yourself to the nearest remedial reading class you can find so you can be more well equipped to comprehend wtf your reading.


Actually you have repeatedly mentioned red meat being bad, in fact my reply to you directly quoted you saying red meat was bad.

Lol are you able to forget what you have written to preserve your ego?

Yeah i'm calling troll, i won't be posting again LMAO.


Red meat is bad and I've provided links. I never said ALL meat was bad, learn to read and then please reread my posts. And yes, you will reply again.


I think this pretty much proves the guy is a liar, a hypocrite and in my opinion a troll

Nice catch man, hard to get around this one bt i'm sure he'll try lying his way out of it


It's technically not my car YET, but it is still mine. Just waiting for everything to work out. See, I didn't lie. I do own a car, but at the same time I don't as it's not directly in my possession as of yet.



posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 01:43 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 02:31 PM
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reply to post by zaiger
 


Well, I did have a rather lengthy reply for you, but you must have been trigger happy to hit that alert button. It's either that or the mod who removed the post doesn't know how to properly mod as I was being no more nicer towards you than you were towards me. Haven't seen your posts removed yet nor have I whined like a little baby with the almighty alert button.

I'm out of this thread as it's filled with nothing but immature little trolls. You folks have a nice day now.



posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by sirnex
 


I don't think it is about "being nice" it is more about basic civility and i doubt criticizing the mods' abilities to moderate will help you at all.

[edit on 28-4-2010 by zaiger]



posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by sirnex


For the record i didn't hit the alert button, the mods edit posts they think are rude or offensive.


[edit on 28-4-2010 by ImaginaryReality1984]



posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by zaiger
reply to post by sirnex
 


I don't think it is about "being nice" it is more about basic civility
[edit on 28-4-2010 by zaiger]


Hypocrite.



posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by sirnex

Originally posted by zaiger
reply to post by sirnex
 


I don't think it is about "being nice" it is more about basic civility
[edit on 28-4-2010 by zaiger]


Hypocrite.




I'm out of this thread as it's filled with nothing but immature little trolls. You folks have a nice day now.

Really?



posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by sirnex
 


Excellent question. We need a paradigm shift in values and our perception of value... and we need it soon.

Edit: uh oh...I notice a few trolls here on your thread. Do you have some sort of a scrubber? They'll leave a nasty bite and are as hard to get rid of as ticks.
Maybe I'll come back to this thread later when they have gone.

You would think this is a topic none could argue.
But you see the whole planet is infested with these "parasites" latching on to the creative and worthwhile and bringing it all down like a bunch of piranha on a bison.

Good luck.

[edit on 28-4-2010 by rusethorcain]



posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 04:24 PM
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reply to post by rusethorcain
 



Excellent question. We need a paradigm shift in values and our perception of value... and we need it soon.


I couldn't agree more. I've been trying to learn a little more about this whole resource based economy thing as someone sent me a U2U privately asking me about it as he/she didn't want to deal with the trolls in this thread that early on.

If we can shift how we think about ourselves, our resources and our planet, then perhaps we can begin repairing all the damage we've started before it becomes to late. I'm starting to learn as much as I can now and trying to implement what I learn as best as I can. Unfortunately, trolls don't like people doing that because it makes them feel bad about themselves, so they feel the need to attack anything they don't understand.


Edit: uh oh...I notice a few trolls here on your thread. Do you have some sort of a scrubber? They'll leave a nasty bite and are as hard to get rid of as ticks.
Maybe I'll come back to this thread later when they have gone.


Yea, I've already decided that enough was enough and figured if they're alert button happy then so I should be as well. I've already sent an alert about these two main trolls and hopefully a mod will realize what they are and deal with the problem correctly.


You would think this is a topic none could argue.
But you see the whole planet is infested with these "parasites" latching on to the creative and worthwhile and bringing it all down like a bunch of piranha on a bison.


Yea, unfortunately the planet is way too populated with people who could care less, are greedy and out for no one but themselves. The exact reason we're in the mess we're in now. Wasn't that long ago we almost destroyed our ozone layer, and yet they've forgotten or have completely dismissed just exactly how damaging we really are to our only home. They don't seem to get it, we can't pack up and move once we've killed this planet or have tipped the scale tot he point of no return.


Good luck.


Thanks, and I'm sorry to see yet another poster not participate in this thread and for given the exact reason openly! It's a shame that trolls have to destroy what could have been excellent discussions.



posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 05:53 PM
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OP I love the idea of self sufficiency, living off of the land and off of the grid. I 100% believe that in a wilderness survival situation nature will provide ALL of what you need as long as you have some knowledge.
Lately I've been doing some work in an office tower (I'm a tradesman) and I've been observing the people there. These people are exactly the reason why a back to the land movement would most likely fail. They walk around like mindless cattle staring at thier blackberries and God forbid the power goes out in the building...they all stare at the sky as if to say "What do we do now?!" It's truly sad that so much of society has gone this way...we've lost the really important knowledge of our ancestors over the last century. The Native Americans had it right, it's too bad we had to go and mess it all up.



posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 08:26 PM
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reply to post by sonofnone
 



OP I love the idea of self sufficiency, living off of the land and off of the grid. I 100% believe that in a wilderness survival situation nature will provide ALL of what you need as long as you have some knowledge.


See, that's the thing though, it doesn't have to be an in the wilderness survival situation. Everything we need is derived from this planet in it's raw form. The planet has never demanded payment from some imaginary value system invented by greedy power hungry humans. We only have to pay for resources because the few think that they own all the resources when the opposite is true. All beings on this planet have an inalienable right to all the resources available on the planet. We're a communal species, so we should act as a communal species. We need to stop acting as if we're somehow better than the next person and are somehow more privileged than that single mom with kids that our beloved trolls used as an example. Backwards thinking like that isn't going to solve anything.


Lately I've been doing some work in an office tower (I'm a tradesman) and I've been observing the people there. These people are exactly the reason why a back to the land movement would most likely fail. They walk around like mindless cattle staring at thier blackberries and God forbid the power goes out in the building...they all stare at the sky as if to say "What do we do now?!" It's truly sad that so much of society has gone this way...we've lost the really important knowledge of our ancestors over the last century. The Native Americans had it right, it's too bad we had to go and mess it all up.


I hear ya and it's a real shame that people can't honestly think for themselves and require a few power hungry individuals to do their thinking for them. I never really understood the point of NEEDING a government to tell me the obvious. Some people can't think outside the box and realize that governments are a problem and have been since the dawn of civilization. I'm trying to learn how to do thing's in a more responsible way and trying to impart that knowledge upon my kids in hopes they'll teach their kids and so on. I may only be one person, and the few of us in this thread may only be a few out of many who don't care, but hopefully our understanding of the importance of what this planet means to us will help in the long run after these fine folks kill themselves off.

I'm not religious, but like God said, the meek shall inherent the Earth. Indeed we shall!



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 05:46 AM
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Now that the dust seems to have settled i'd like to ask a few questions.

First of all i find interesting the possibility of the earth providing our every needs and the fact that whether you use a car or a computer, TO ME, doesn't make you a hypocrite because i don't remember you saying you do live off the earth right now, you just advocate that it is possible.
I will not debate on this as it is my opinion and i don't want to generate any conflict with anybody. I just want to know more.

From your posts i deduce you try to avoid regular medicine. If so, where do you get information on, let's say, cure hangovers, sore throats, etc? (IE as of now i'm full of alergies and my left eye is kindof swallen and it keeps wheeping)

You said you farm in 1 hectar(or whatever land measure you use, I use hectars so i will go with that) in your house. What exactly do you farm?

And what kind of cheap ecological energy do you use?

I'm sorry if some of these questions have already been answered but with all the conflict and hardcore debate i kindof got lost.
Now that this thread has calmed down i'd like to see some information without accusations or defenses.

Let's just talk rationally and politely, thats all I ask.

[edit on 3-5-2010 by kr0ss]



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 07:26 AM
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reply to post by kr0ss
 



Now that the dust seems to have settled i'd like to ask a few questions.

First of all i find interesting the possibility of the earth providing our every needs and the fact that whether you use a car or a computer, TO ME, doesn't make you a hypocrite because i don't remember you saying you do live off the earth right now, you just advocate that it is possible.
I will not debate on this as it is my opinion and i don't want to generate any conflict with anybody. I just want to know more.


Thank you, that's something a certain few had a problem discerning the difference of. Some people just don't have a great mastery over how to read or apply labels.



From your posts i deduce you try to avoid regular medicine. If so, where do you get information on, let's say, cure hangovers, sore throats, etc? (IE as of now i'm full of alergies and my left eye is kindof swallen and it keeps wheeping)


I just picked up a book titled 'Grow your own drugs', it's a great book and they also have a tv series by the same name. U2U me if you want a link to it, it's a really great show.

this article can help with the allergies: Mother Earth News


You said you farm in 1 hectar(or whatever land measure you use, I use hectars so i will go with that) in your house. What exactly do you farm?


I'm not farming this year. This year I'm going to just compost and build my soil back up. I won't farm any grains or corn as they aren't really that good for you. I am looking into doing sprouts while I'm composting this year as an alternative.


And what kind of cheap ecological energy do you use?


None at the moment, but earlier back I provided a link to a solar power setup that I'm going to be switching to eventually.


I'm sorry if some of these questions have already been answered but with all the conflict and hardcore debate i kindof got lost.
Now that this thread has calmed down i'd like to see some information without accusations or defenses.

Let's just talk rationally and politely, thats all I ask.


I appreciate the straight forward questions without the trolling sarcasm that I received earlier by a couple of folks.



posted on May, 4 2010 @ 01:00 PM
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Thanks, i enjoyed that link, it had interesting stuff.
Also, i looked up for "grow your own drugs" on youtube and i watched the 1st episode of the show and that was interesting as well.
If you have more of those kind of links could you share them?
Actually, i think that after all your research / reading, you should write a full post or even new thread with suggestions on how to live more naturally and hurt the planet less.
I didnt understand the compost answer, could you be more specific?
I'm planning on buying a bigger house in a few months, hopefully with space for a little garden to plant stuff (Aloe Vera is gonna be my first)
Thanks for keeping answering.



posted on May, 4 2010 @ 05:00 PM
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reply to post by kr0ss
 



Thanks, i enjoyed that link, it had interesting stuff.
Also, i looked up for "grow your own drugs" on youtube and i watched the 1st episode of the show and that was interesting as well.
If you have more of those kind of links could you share them?


Here you go: Grow your own drugs


Actually, i think that after all your research / reading, you should write a full post or even new thread with suggestions on how to live more naturally and hurt the planet less.


I was initially hoping this thread would evolve into something like that, but some people are seemingly against any such suggestions. I've listed some and have had every single one shot down because it takes away peoples McDonald's and hummers.


I didnt understand the compost answer, could you be more specific?

Wiki:Compost
Humanure


These two links should provide a good starting point. I think most town halls offer compost bins for really cheap too, could always go there and ask, they should even provide information on what to do with them as well.


I'm planning on buying a bigger house in a few months, hopefully with space for a little garden to plant stuff (Aloe Vera is gonna be my first)


I'm hoping to someday get a piece of land to build my own house. I want a combination of Cob and Compressed Earth Block, but have the house built up instead of out so it's footprint on the land is lower. Might even consider moving most of the house underground to cut down on heating costs and such. At that point I think I'd use stone to build with.


Thanks for keeping answering.


Thanks for continuing to ask questions!



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