The Earth provides for our every need for free.

reply to post by sirnex


Well your thread starts out about how the earth provides everything we need and how we ahould all live like nomads instead of living a life of luxury. Then you say technology is good so we should all live like nomads with iphones and computers powered by "green energy" which i went on to show that it is not green.
"Hey bob lets get in my zero emission hover car and go to the forest to eat catepillars worms and grasshoppers"
"sure email me directions"
"Isn't mother earth great we have all these bugs and computers oh life is grand"

oh yeah i forgot Happy earth day

[edit on 22-4-2010 by zaiger]

Originally posted by zaiger
reply to post by sirnex

 

yes i think a radioactive potato would probably work just as good as a sap powered wood computer. Do you have any good methods of grass hopper hunting? Worms are pretty easy you get them if you eat dirty food. I do notget why is it wrong to kill a buffalo but okay to eat a grass hopper? I think the opposite a buffalo could feed50 people and a buffalo soldier could feed 10, it would take a lot of grass hoppers and worms to fill you up. One life one meal should be a crime that is why i do not eat chicken or any bird that flys.

[edit on 22-4-2010 by zaiger]

There are alternatives to what we're doing. First of all, plastics can be made from plants and they have done this for decades, there is no reason for our fossil fuels. Use of metals and minerals should be carefully done, and all other things utilized first, for example crystals, which can be grown, especially exploring the energy potentials to be found in living amino acid crystals.

Quartz is a remarkable substance and similar to this can be grown, and it can hold data just like a hard drive.

We certainly have more choices than what we're doing now, and should always carefully weigh things out. Furniture can be made out of paper mache slurries from plants like hemp, linen, and things that can be grown quickly, and seeded throughout the forrests. Forest seeding with heritage, not modified, seeds for example, in abudnance, and personal farming. Devices can be made like this as well.

Energy can come from solar/wind/and hopefully magnetic energy devices. Steam engines for factory devices, all sorts of alternatives if people think out of the box.

reply to post by Unity_99

First of all, plastics can be made from plants and they have done this for decades, there is no reason for our fossil fuels.

So it is wrong to cut down plants for wood and houses but okay to use them for plastics?

Quartz is a remarkable substance and similar to this can be grown, and it can hold data just like a hard drive.

Really? please give us info on that.

Furniture can be made out of paper mache slurries from plants like hemp, linen, and things that can be grown quickly, and seeded throughout the forrests. Forest seeding with heritage, not modified, seeds for example, in abudnance, and personal farming. Devices can be made like this as well.

So once again. It is okay to grow plants to cut down for our needs but it is wrong to cut down trees for what we want? As i covered earlier lumber replant more than they cut some even replant 8 trees for every one they cut. The whole "green" craze revolves around convincing people that everything we do is destroying the earth.

Originally posted by fernx
Ok I had to look this up....just wanted to see for myself
world population is about 7 billion people

www.ibiblio.org...

amount of land in the world is about 37 billion acres

wiki.answers.com...

so that works out to about 5 acres per person ( give or take this is just rough math )....and that is all the land....kind of hard to grow vegs. in the arctic or graze a cow on 5 acres of rock on top of a Mt.

just something to think about.....

cheers

You are forgetting though that hundreds of millions of people live in high rise apartments which take up much less space than sprawling subdivisions, or one family living on a 50 acre property. Not that I advocate taking that fifty acre property away from said family.

There is still one heck of a lot of land in which to grow food for the entire planet for centuries to come in my opinion.

As we evolve as a species, why couldn't we construct habitats that also provide food for the inhabitants nourishment? Essentially killing two birds with one stone. Energy could even be preserved this way making it three birds with one stone.

The problem today is that we waste our resources, the amount of food thrown away in first world nations could probably feed the starving throughout the world for years to come. The starving, however, shouldn't have to be subjugated to our refuse to survive. If we put an end to the profiteering over every aspect of our lives, then they too could eat plentifully just like the rest of us. Unfortunately, everything we do is based on greed. The corporations ensure that we have to pay them for the priveledge of eating and that of course effects the rest of the world. Especially the third world where a decent meal is very hard to come by.

We have an abundance of food and land. We just manage these resources unwisely. If we spent half the money we do on military expenditure, and used those funds instead to better the world, ensuring that no-one went hungry and that everyone had clean drinking water, and that everyone had some form of adequate shelter, well, quite simply, the world would be a much better place.

Instead we spend trillions on military expenditure, and most of us find nothing wrong with this. In fact, many go so far as to brag about how powerful their country is militarily as if it were something to be proud of.

Most of us don't even question this aspect of our reality. In fact, most of us fail to question anything in regards to the worlds current situation. We are far more happy bickering amongst ourselves, divided, hateful and fearful. It is exactly what those in power want. As it is these negative traits that grant them their power and influence over us. It is these traits that also allow them to strip us of our rights in the name of safety and security.


Achieving happiness and a state of wellbeing for all wouldn't be that difficult if we worked together and made crucial changes to the way the world currently functions. As it is now, we are being exploited in the name of greed. It doesn't have to remain that way.

Originally posted by fernx

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by Ahabstar

 

What if I don't like grain and everything I do like I can make enough for my family? What if I can provide every basic need for my entire family on just a mere acre of land? I don't need grain or beef to live a very healthy life. Nor do I want grain or beef as they aren't healthy at all!

I've never had to work very hard to tend my own crops, gather my own wild edibles or collect my own rainwater. Why do people think it's such a hard job? I hardly have to do a thing!

So you don't believe in food storage?

Sorry I can't help myself LOL

Did you even read the link you put up???
www.ehow.com...

Where are you going to get your seeds???

Your jars for canning??

You need vinegar and salt to can...botulism poisoning!!!

Pressure cooker, $ remember you don't have enough land for firewood!

Yes your link say you have enough room to raise an animal (we know you don't eat beef ) but you still do not have enough room to grow crops for that animal to eat, you will have to go to the feed store = $

You say you collect rain water...are you drinking it?? needs to be disinfected...filter and boiling cost $

Gather wild edibles?? Where on your one acre or will you trespass.

You say you will eat worms and grasshopers, where do you live??? Most parts of the world it snows for half of the year...can't jar them you don't have the things to do that.

You say you don't use soaps...you know you can get nasty skin funguses.

How are you going to brush your teeth??? What will you do when they get infected??? Pull them out with your fingers, no $ for a pair of pliers.

You say you don't need clothing, what ever

LOL....You can not live on one acre of land, you can not provide every basic need for your family on one acre...are you going to sent your kids to school with no cloths, no shoes, dirty, with the runs because they drink unsafe water and pocket full of worms for lunch, come on you know this could not work. I wish it could work but not in this life time!!!! Get real. You need much more land....100 acres and I would try it...1 acre no way!!!

cheers

People managed to survive for thousands of years if not longer this way. What makes you think we couldn't achieve the same thing today? With the technology we possess, as well as the millions of great minds working in unison, I see no reason why we couldn't achieve the same thing in today's day and age.

Originally posted by St Udio

Originally posted by sirnex


All luxuries that we don't need. Do you advocate raping the planet for metal and petroleum so you can own an SUV that pollutes the air you breath, that your children breath? Everything I need I can walk to.

sounds like the talk that 'Uni-Bomber' dude talked & wrote about
while in his 8X10 shack in the deep woods.

note to you...do as you will, but hurt no one
[edit on 22-4-2010 by St Udio]

Sounds like truth and logic to me no matter who may have stated as much.

I get around just fine on a bicycle and I don't have to worry about the thousands of dollars a year in refuelling, insurance or maintenance costs.

Sounds like one step closer to true freedom to me. Ironically, many Americans seem to think "owning" an SUV is the epitome of freedom. To each their own.

reply to post by fernx

Right back at you! Your topic is " Earth provides for our every need for free"
You are the one that said for FREE.

And the Earth certainly does! Do me a favor today, go outside in your backyard and so long as your 50 feet from a road side and don't use chemicals to treat your law, pick a dandelion and eat it.

Tell me, how much did you pay for that dandelion (barring society forcing you to pay them for the land and shelter of course).

But when someone tries to make a case about anything you just shoot it down and say whatever.

No one has made any argument against the Earth providing for free. Bitching and moaning about 'work' or bartering with others has no bearing on what the Earth doesn't charge. The Earth has no natural monetary system that it demands from you.

Make your case on how earth provides it for free. Ok you are going to farm bugs....so let us know how you are going to raise all those bugs for free! Cages, food for them and what ever else they need. If you can do this with all your rebuttals you will not look like the smart assed ignorance person we are seeing!

Let's mature as a species and do away with illusory concepts. You don't still believe that your teeth hold monetary value anymore do you? Why are thing's not free? I went over this in the first thread, illusory value systems and voluntary slavery to that value system. We can pretend all we want that governments have power and that we can't live without money. So long as those concepts hold power over us, they'll always hold power over us. Personally I don't want to work for someone else to buy an environmentally unfriendly Lamborghini, but guess what, you fine folks arguing against maturity and responsibility tell me I have no god damned choice. Isn't that special? You take your guilt and project negativity (with a self defeatist attitude) towards those who say hey, look at the alternatives (which weren't always alternative!). The last two hundred years of civilization is the alternative my friend.



[edit on 23-4-2010 by sirnex]

[edit on 23-4-2010 by sirnex]

reply to post by zaiger

Well your thread starts out about how the earth provides everything we need and how we ahould all live like nomads instead of living a life of luxury.

Challenge of today, quote anything in the first post that calls for living like nomads. You want to put words in my mouth, then by all means grow a pair of balls and quote me on it.

Then you say technology is good so we should all live like nomads with iphones and computers powered by "green energy" which i went on to show that it is not green.

Which in order for your argument to hold water we have to disregard all alternative that are cleaner for the environment.

"Hey bob lets get in my zero emission hover car and go to the forest to eat catepillars worms and grasshoppers"
"sure email me directions"
"Isn't mother earth great we have all these bugs and computers oh life is grand"

Yes, you moan about wind farms whilst I say roof mounted turbines provide plenty of energy, if you need more then add another turbine. No need to clear cut forests for wind farms.

I say eat more insects, you say, "Can I haz moar chzburgr plz? kthxbai!" Yes, because 50000 gallons a day is more responsible and resourceful than a mere 1/4 cup a day of water. Not to mention as the population increases we have to clear cut more forests in which to provide grazing land for more cows to feed more people who go EWWWWWWWWWW BUGS! which they already eat on a daily basis but aren't told because our great nation is filled with weak pansies who act tough with their McDonald's burger.

So I guess the real question is, what kind of person are you?

Are you the burger eating pansy who could care less about the state of the planet for your children?

-OR-

Are you the person who cares about what kind of home your providing for your children and their children?

Yes, I understand your choices now may not affect you now, but again, this is about maturity and responsibility. The choice is yours my friend. Are you a pansy or not?

[edit on 23-4-2010 by sirnex]

[edit on 23-4-2010 by sirnex]

Originally posted by Isosceles

Originally posted by fernx

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by Ahabstar

 

People managed to survive for thousands of years if not longer this way. What makes you think we couldn't achieve the same thing today? With the technology we possess, as well as the millions of great minds working in unison, I see no reason why we couldn't achieve the same thing in today's day and age.

I know we can, every day there is new technology that is great and getting better. BUT the topic line is "Earth provides for our every need for FREE".

I love the thought of solar, windmills and everything else green. I do try to be as green as I can.

But you can not do this for free! Technology is not FREE. Windmills are not free, solar panels are not free, and so on.

Maybe the topic line should be changed!!!! Earth can and does provide for our every need......but not for FREE.

cheers

reply to post by zaiger

So it is wrong to cut down plants for wood and houses but okay to use them for plastics?

Imagine how much less wood you would need if you used the non-toxic, fireproof, bug proof, noise reducing, dirt right under your feet. As for plastics, how many potatoes caused oil spills in the last 10 years? Hell, want to get even more ecological, use bamboo in place of wood. Bamboo is an amazing building material that grows a hell of a lot faster than any form of lumber in the world.

It's like you have tunnel vision. You only see what's ahead of you for your own benefit. Obviously you don't care about the planet your leaving your children.

Really? please give us info on that.

Look up holographic storage.

So once again. It is okay to grow plants to cut down for our needs but it is wrong to cut down trees for what we want? As i covered earlier lumber replant more than they cut some even replant 8 trees for every one they cut. The whole "green" craze revolves around convincing people that everything we do is destroying the earth.

And what you didn't mention is that lumber is often time treated with toxic chemicals that leech into the air we breath so that they can withstand the elements better and last longer. I'm not sure about you, but I'm not to keen and sold on the idea that it's a great idea to breath in any quantity of toxic chemical. You may enjoy it yourself, but there are some of us who are more mature and responsible who would greatly appreciate if people like you could stop telling us that we have to do it your unhealthy destructive way and that there is no other way irregardless of us showing you that different way.

There's more to life than what you can see in your little tunnel my friend.

reply to post by fernx

I know we can, every day there is new technology that is great and getting better. BUT the topic line is "Earth provides for our every need for FREE".

I love the thought of solar, windmills and everything else green. I do try to be as green as I can.

But you can not do this for free! Technology is not FREE. Windmills are not free, solar panels are not free, and so on.

Maybe the topic line should be changed!!!! Earth can and does provide for our every need......but not for FREE.

Maybe your view is what needs to change. I get that your heavily indoctrinated into slaving away at an illusory value system that you hold a religious fervor in it's value and necessity, point of fact is, lose that system and the only cost is labor which is certainly free. You get out what you put in my friend.

If one wishes to use technology, then move into a community and as I mentioned earlier a community works as a community for the community. Greed is pointless as we're a social species, working against each other isn't amounting to much, so what's the point?

I'm sorry, but no one actually owns ALL the land on Earth despite them saying so. The Earth contains no naturally visible property lines, building zones or subdivisions. These are illusory concepts that exist only if you place belief in their existence. It's not us trying to fix the problem, it's you saying the problem can't be fixed. Stop being a lazy shell of a man and put your guilt where it will benefit the world. Being a slave to an illusory value system and giving power to those who have no power over you is just plain stupid.

If I came to your house unarmed and demanded you to leave, you wouldn't listen.

What if I came armed and demanded you to leave? Would you be a pansy and listen or would you fight for your right to food, water and shelter?

What it boils down to is, are you a master or a slave? Do you prefer being a follower or a leader of your own life?

reply to post by fernx


This is in Survival. That implies something big went down and we're no longer involved with their banks and realtors.

By the way, I don't believe in Banks and Realtors, or political systems, most laws, etc. Its slavery.

If enough people woke up, it wouldn't take a world wide disaster to free us. We'd walk away, erect our little eco villages, and start to create the tools necessary, share, volunteer, and educate people, and in short advance, into the future without a scarsity system of money, or control, and if things needed some management, we could have rotating shifts of people, doing it and taking turns, but with very limited areas.

In short, a grass roots Venus project, or an clean technology upgrade from the way natives lived.

The Venus Project is a newer term, so all my life I didn't have a word for it, but its pretty obvious. Funny thing is, its a matter of group brainwashing that we don't have that freedom right now.

Originally posted by sirnex
The Earth provides for our every need for free, so why do we work for others to earn an illusory unit of value to buy what is freely available? Why do we put up with that?

Exactly if i was left alone, i would of just done a manula labouring job. Does not mean i could not do something better, i just wanted to live in peace and quiet by myself. But teh government thought they would make sure i could not do this as they think they know better. Scum ruined my life.

If you live by yourself, you can survive on so much a week, and i never ever wanted a partner.

reply to post by Unity_99

If enough people woke up, it wouldn't take a world wide disaster to free us. We'd walk away, erect our little eco villages, and start to create the tools necessary, share, volunteer, and educate people, and in short advance, into the future without a scarsity system of money, or control, and if things needed some management, we could have rotating shifts of people, doing it and taking turns, but with very limited areas.

That's cool, I've been thinking about some form of community with rotating work shifts myself. I wouldn't mind living in a community with limited technology where shelter, food, water was all produced as a group and freely available. Just seem a shame that these money grubbers have tunnel vision and the audacity to tell us that we're not allowed to live better, healthier and longer lives than them. Set up a decent sized arcology and a few vertical farms tied into a few fish farms and your all set. The arcology could even be underground, freeing up land for recreational and farming purposes.

I love how you think. It's like breathing fresh air seeing your post's compared to the toxic fumes given off by the naysayers.

reply to post by sirnex

And what you didn't mention is that lumber is often time treated with toxic chemicals that leech into the air we breath so that they can withstand the elements better and last longer.

It is the same story with bamboo look up out gassing. Bamboo is worse than lumber.

You may enjoy it yourself, but there are some of us who are more mature and responsible who would greatly appreciate if people like you could stop telling us that we have to do it your unhealthy destructive way and that there is no other way irregardless of us showing you that different way.

The point is all this green crap is a joke. No matter what you use it comes from something else and there is waste. According to you lumber is toxic because of the chemicals they use in it, bamboo is worse. But that is okay because bamboo is "green" right?

As for plastics, how many potatoes caused oil spills in the last 10 years?

No oil spills but ecologically is not that much better. They still rely heavily on petrolium based products. And you can toss bioplastics in the recycle container, well you could as most green zombies probably do. But bioplastics and regular plastics do not mix and are almost impossible to distinguish from each other. So any bioplastics tossed in with the regular plastic recycle container will ruin the plastics with it in the recycling plant. So recycling these plastics would do more harm than good, you would have to throw them in the trash adding to the beautiful landfills. Just like regular plastics not all bioplastics are biodegradeable.

Challenge of today, quote anything in the first post that calls for living like nomads. You want to put words in my mouth, then by all means grow a pair of balls and quote me on it.

okay

The Earth provides us free shelter as we can use the very dirt where we want to build our homes. The Earth provides us life giving water from lakes, streams and rain. The Earth gives us bountiful healthy nourishing food. The Earth provides free health care for every living creature. The thing's our ONE home provides us freely is endless. We should never have to want for anything, but we constantly do because we turn ourselves away from our home as if we're better than it.

Instead of living in nature, we live outside of nature as if it's a thing we can do without.


Living in dirt huts while drinking out of a river and bug hunting? yeah sounds like 1 step up from a cave man.

Which in order for your argument to hold water we have to disregard all alternative that are cleaner for the environment.

They all have major problems and most of them depend on fossil fuels for them to work. Roof mounted turbines do not work, they are not constant and they do not deliver snough electricity.


[edit on 23-4-2010 by zaiger]

reply to post by zaiger

It is the same story with bamboo look up out gassing. Bamboo is worse than lumber.

Oh sweet Jesus are you kidding me? I didn't say 'Hey let's chemically treat the bamboo to look like the pressure treated lumber I was just talking about.'

The point is all this green crap is a joke. No matter what you use it comes from something else and there is waste. According to you lumber is toxic because of the chemicals they use in it, bamboo is worse. But that is okay because bamboo is "green" right?

You do piss poor research. When treating bamboo to function and look like traditional lumber, then you are correct. When using bamboo as it is, you are wrong.

No oil spills but ecologically is not that much better. They still rely heavily on petrolium based products. And you can toss bioplastics in the recycle container, well you could as most green zombies probably do. But bioplastics and regular plastics do not mix and are almost impossible to distinguish from each other. So any bioplastics tossed in with the regular plastic recycle container will ruin the plastics with it in the recycling plant. So recycling these plastics would do more harm than good, you would have to throw them in the trash adding to the beautiful landfills. Just like regular plastics not all bioplastics are biodegradeable.

Do away with the petroleum based plastics. Simple solution.

Living in dirt huts while drinking out of a river and bug hunting? yeah sounds like 1 step up from a cave man.

You've done this multiple times now, twisting what I'm saying in an ill thought out attempt to argue my points. What you just quoted said nothing about living a nomadic lifestyle. Please also don't forget the numerous time (again doing so) that I'm not against technology or communal living, but that these thing's should be done with more maturity and responsibility.

They all have major problems and most of them depend on fossil fuels for them to work. Roof mounted turbines do not work, they are not constant and they do not deliver snough electricity.

So I suppose all the various people living off grid without connections to the utility companies are just doing it wrong by your book?

Wait what? You have all your electrical needs met without the electric company? YOUR DOING IT WRONG.

Plz...

I hope you don't drive with that tunnel vision. lol

reply to post by sirnex

You do piss poor research. When treating bamboo to function and look like traditional lumber, then you are correct. When using bamboo as it is, you are wrong.

Bamboo as is will not work it still needs to be treated to last unless you just build a hut to live in where you can replace small sections with little problems.

Do away with the petroleum based plastics. Simple solution.

So we would have to clear out large portions of land to grow plants to make bioplastics, so once again. It is wrong to cut down trees and clear land unless it is to build something "green".

What you just quoted said nothing about living a nomadic lifestyle. Please also don't forget the numerous time (again doing so) that I'm not against technology or communal living, but that these thing's should be done with more maturity and responsibility.

I know we should all have high tech things live in dirt and bamboo huts while we tend to our grasshopper and catepillar farms.

So I suppose all the various people living off grid without connections to the utility companies are just doing it wrong by your book?

Not doing it wrong, a few people can live off the grid with no problem, but keep in mind they are not using wood compters and comming on ATS to tell us we should eat bugs because earth mother wants us to.
So a lion can eat a cow but for some reason i can't?

Wait what? You have all your electrical needs met without the electric company?

Are you? Do you live in a bamboo dirt hut? Are you living off bugs?

reply to post by zaiger

Bamboo as is will not work it still needs to be treated to last unless you just build a hut to live in where you can replace small sections with little problems.

Build with CEB, replace bamboo sections as needed which I can't remind you enough grow insanely faster than lumber.

So we would have to clear out large portions of land to grow plants to make bioplastics, so once again. It is wrong to cut down trees and clear land unless it is to build something "green".

Vertical farms.

I know we should all have high tech things live in dirt and bamboo huts while we tend to our grasshopper and catepillar farms.

Learn to read.

Not doing it wrong, a few people can live off the grid with no problem, but keep in mind they are not using wood compters and comming on ATS to tell us we should eat bugs because earth mother wants us to.
So a lion can eat a cow but for some reason i can't?

You have no bodily adaptations to hunting down a cow nor can you properly digest the meat which is what leads to a host of inflammatory related diseases.

Are you? Do you live in a bamboo dirt hut? Are you living off bugs?

I'm not allowed to thanks to other smart asses who think they have the right to waive guns around if I so much as dared. No, I don't do everything I've discussed in this thread, some thing's yes, but not all. The reason for that is thanks to people like you whom have bigger mouths and louder voices that make all the wrong policy changes that leads to a planet that future generations can't sustain themselves on. You bitch about people wanting to act more responsibly while I bitch about people like you who waste resources for no better reason than pure selfish greed and stupidity.

reply to post by sirnex

Build with CEB, replace bamboo sections as needed which I can't remind you enough grow insanely faster than lumber.

I do not get it compressed earth blocks are a brick alternative and bamboo is a wood.

You have no bodily adaptations to hunting down a cow nor can you properly digest the meat which is what leads to a host of inflammatory related diseases.

According to my toilet i can digest meat just fine.

I'm not allowed to thanks to other smart asses who think they have the right to waive guns around if I so much as dared. No, I don't do everything I've discussed in this thread, some thing's yes, but not all.

You are allowed to do everything you descirbed. You can legally build a dirt hut and live it it on your land. You can build a house out of bamboo, you can mount wind turbines and solar panels to it. You can start you own little grasshopper farm. There is nothing illegal about anything you want to do. Land in texas and montana is dirt cheap nobody is stopping you from going there and creating green world.

You bitch about people wanting to act more responsibly

See that is the diference, im not complaining about the stuff i use everyday. You use it just like i do but for some reason you think you are better than everyone else because you use it and complain about it.

while I bitch about people like you who waste resources for no better reason than pure selfish greed and stupidity.

Yes lets talk about greed and stupidity.

Hybrid cars- Cost way more than regular cars but still use gas. Not having to fill up as often people use them more because they pollute less. So instead of not driving because of the price of gas people with hybrid cars drive more therefore defeating the purpose of having the hybrid in the first place.
Electric cars- They still cost more and are very inefficient, when you have to plug them in to power them up you are using electricity from a plant that burns coal. So the power plant has to produce that much more energy to fuel the car.
Energy saving lights- The compact flourecents do use less energy but they contain mercury so when you are done with this wonderful green product it has to go to a hazardous waste disposal site. LEDs can be hazerdous because of the blue light hazard and the brighter ones cause light polution.OLEDs have life span of under 1,000 hours and would not be practical.
All in all green products cost more which if they are built with cheap and sustainable methods should be cheaper but they are not. Manufacturers know that this green thing is a fad and will die out but the money people are willing to pay for things that are "green" continues to fuel this green craze.

reply to post by zaiger

I do not get it compressed earth blocks are a brick alternative and bamboo is a wood.

Earth is not wasting precious resources and clays, its abundant. Bamboo can be used as wood, it is a wood, something that is a fast renewable crop that can saves harvesting precious forrests, which should not be destroyed and its destroying our world and the natural habitat of its other inhabits, all creatures great and small.

So it is wrong to cut down plants for wood and houses but okay to use them for plastics?

Plants are renewable and grow quickly, they can be harvested like crops, whereas forrest are a completely different matter. Plants can be seeded in forrests abundantly, for food and other uses, but they can also be greenhoused hydroponically, undergroud,and above ground which means you can really increase the yield by various levels and save precious meadows and farm areas for food crops, most of which can actually be grown in your own house or attached including tropical items, even in the North.

Plastics can be gotten from plants, not just trees, and they're remarkable, biodegradable and can do everything fossil fuels can without damage to the environment, again, ingenious layered levels of greenhousing and making use of various areas in naturally can increase the amount of plants you use for goods, without depleting the amount of food production, required, very good thing, when people start thinking out of the box.

They used to publish articles about the biologists and mavaric scientist doing exactly this and solving natural disasters (such as a lake running dry for a village in the developing world so they had no water, and he sailed in, used natural plants to line the basin and created a natural seal/resin, and made a huge water resevoir for them, including showing and building some technology. He had numerous systems that were designed that would have involved plants as filters for waters instead of the hazardous chemicals used in city treatments that produced 100% clean water.

The strange thing is, we have a world in crisis, and everyone's life and liberty is fragile at best for we're not self sufficient, growing our own food and producing our own energy. At the same time, all along, clean energy solutions have been discovered, and buried. So its not like we really have problems its just that we keep electing VILLIANS to run the world and exhort us, who they consider their slaves.

I suggest not waiting for a disaster, but in large numbers, we take all this information, and reasearch and tools, and especially our young scientists/doctors, in training in the universities with us, before they get owned by the bloodlines and WALK AWAY, and form our own villages.

Without doing this in large numbers, there is alternative and I am thinking of it now, its a way of slowly opting out, with like minded people, who treat their spread out homes/apartments in various towns and cities as if they are one eco village and start to pool ideas, resources, cut down on their slave jobs, and make do with home grown solutions, only and in short, make lists of all the essential goods and services they wish, and pool to set each other up. Only buy and sell and trade from/with each other, and when we can change the world, no need for money. We can be mavarics ourselves, with older more skilled mechanics, carpenters, engineers teaching hands on teenagers to build things themselves, including ham radios. We can't pretty much opt out partly in small groups and hopefully grow a large movement until we walk away.

However some of us are worried that the SHTF soon, and so we should do this with like minded people with a focus on preparation and getting ready.

So once again. It is okay to grow plants to cut down for our needs but it is wrong to cut down trees for what we want? As i covered earlier lumber replant more than they cut some even replant 8 trees for every one they cut. The whole "green" craze revolves around convincing people that everything we do is destroying the earth.

See above!

www.wikipatents.com...

Someone thinks they can patent using ceraminc and quartz as memory storage. Well, it wont matter after the shift, and people need to decide for themselves whether they consider this TREASON or not, or whether all information should be shared, and take all the notes they can, useful information.

[edit on 23-4-2010 by Unity_99]