The Earth provides for our every need for free., page 3
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reply posted on 21-4-2010 @ 07:04 PM by sirnex
reply to post by Ahabstar



The key point I was making is that while things are more or less freely available. There really is no such thing as a free lunch. You do have to work to obtain it. You got the point, mostly. Just a bit backwards to my intention.


I really don't understand the concept your trying to describe. I view working for someone else' gain to be more akin to voluntary slavery. I'm on this world for myself and my family, not for someone's Lamborghini.

Many feel that by working for others (like with a job) is the only way to achieve success. And sure some measure can be obtained, depending on the method of payment and the arrangement of the job itself. However, bartering eggs for grain is in a sense working for someone but is on the scale of an equitable return. Because you are producing more than you need in exchange for not producing grain.


What if I don't like grain and everything I do like I can make enough for my family? What if I can provide every basic need for my entire family on just a mere acre of land? I don't need grain or beef to live a very healthy life. Nor do I want grain or beef as they aren't healthy at all!

The catch is not to become too dependent on others such as having people gather all your eggs in exchange for some eggs and some grain. The danger here is two fold. You could become to greedy and not give as much eggs or grain or that your gathers could leave you in the lurch in search of a better deal, leaving you with far less than you could have done.


This scenario seems more about purposefully not producing one or more things that you require while over producing other things. That's silly.

The problem of trying to do it all alone is that your time between different things becomes so divided that you end up with little at all in the end. One of the main reasons that the solo survivalist is harder than having a small group of like minded friends. Bob can fish, while John gathers wild edibles and Tim tends the garden and works on bettering the shelters/huts. Bob may fail, and Tim produces nothing today until harvest.


I've never had to work very hard to tend my own crops, gather my own wild edibles or collect my own rainwater. Why do people think it's such a hard job? I hardly have to do a thing!

Doing that alone means having to tend the garden on an empty stomach, grabbing a few edibles along the way to the fishing spot. Repairs to the shelter will only come if fishing is successful early.


So you don't believe in food storage?

All currency is labor at a set and agreed value of barter. Eggs or dollars, it is all the same, except you can't live on dollars alone.


I agree, one can't live on illusory beliefs alone, nor should one even bother attempting to. I need food, water and shelter, not paper money. Yet, why are we allowing ourselves to acquire paper money that holds no real value instead of what we really need that is of value? This is part of the point I was trying to make. Our labor should be for our benefit, I would never work for YOU so you can buy a Lamborghini. However, I will work happily for myself to feed and nourish my family.


reply posted on 21-4-2010 @ 08:28 PM by dalan.
reply to post by fernx



so that works out to about 5 acres per person ( give or take this is just rough math )....and that is all the land....kind of hard to grow vegs. in the arctic or graze a cow on 5 acres of rock on top of a Mt.

just something to think about.....


Not with a greenhouse that is solar-powered using hydroponics and computer software to grow your food.

I would embrace technology.




[edit on 4/21/2010 by dalan.]


reply posted on 21-4-2010 @ 09:15 PM by fernx
Originally posted by sirnex
reply to
post by Ahabstar



What if I don't like grain and everything I do like I can make enough for my family? What if I can provide every basic need for my entire family on just a mere acre of land? I don't need grain or beef to live a very healthy life. Nor do I want grain or beef as they aren't healthy at all!

I've never had to work very hard to tend my own crops, gather my own wild edibles or collect my own rainwater. Why do people think it's such a hard job? I hardly have to do a thing!

So you don't believe in food storage?



Sorry I can't help myself LOL

Did you even read the link you put up???
www.ehow.com...

Where are you going to get your seeds???

Your jars for canning??

You need vinegar and salt to can...botulism poisoning!!!

Pressure cooker, $ remember you don't have enough land for firewood!

Yes your link say you have enough room to raise an animal (we know you don't eat beef ) but you still do not have enough room to grow crops for that animal to eat, you will have to go to the feed store = $

You say you collect rain water...are you drinking it?? needs to be disinfected...filter and boiling cost $

Gather wild edibles?? Where on your one acre or will you trespass.

You say you will eat worms and grasshopers, where do you live??? Most parts of the world it snows for half of the year...can't jar them you don't have the things to do that.

You say you don't use soaps...you know you can get nasty skin funguses.

How are you going to brush your teeth??? What will you do when they get infected??? Pull them out with your fingers, no $ for a pair of pliers.

You say you don't need clothing, what ever

LOL....You can not live on one acre of land, you can not provide every basic need for your family on one acre...are you going to sent your kids to school with no cloths, no shoes, dirty, with the runs because they drink unsafe water and pocket full of worms for lunch, come on you know this could not work. I wish it could work but not in this life time!!!! Get real. You need much more land....100 acres and I would try it...1 acre no way!!!

cheers


reply posted on 21-4-2010 @ 09:32 PM by sirnex
reply to post by fernx



Where are you going to get your seeds???


From my heirloom crops of course. Not all food is un-viable GMO garbage my friend. Heirloom vegetables are more nutritious, hardy and taste much better than our supermarket GMO crops.

Your jars for canning??

You need vinegar and salt to can...botulism poisoning!!!

Pressure cooker, $ remember you don't have enough land for firewood!


I prefer solar dehydration over canning myself. A technique we've used for thousands of years before omgosh... jars and canning!

Yes your link say you have enough room to raise an animal (we know you don't eat beef ) but you still do not have enough room to grow crops for that animal to eat, you will have to go to the feed store = $


Your argument is lost as I would have no need to grow crops for something I don't own to feed. What exactly is your point my friend?

You say you collect rain water...are you drinking it?? needs to be disinfected...filter and boiling cost $


So... The only way to filter and clean water is to buy a filter and boil it with a gas or electric cooker? Interesting, wonder how we've managed before these wondrous inventions!

Gather wild edibles?? Where on your one acre or will you trespass.


Hmm, I can't recall saying anything about wild edibles, but since we're on the topic I can name quiet a decent bunch that grows right in my backyard.

You say you will eat worms and grasshopers, where do you live??? Most parts of the world it snows for half of the year...can't jar them you don't have the things to do that.


Your right, no one can survive at all living in a four season climate without industrialized civilization. It simply can't be done, has never be done!

You say you don't use soaps...you know you can get nasty skin funguses.


Sure, if you don't wash yourself. I'm surprised we survived long enough with all our nasty diseases before the invention of soap. I can't even imagine how all these animals are keeping clean without our magic corrosive lye's!

How are you going to brush your teeth??? What will you do when they get infected??? Pull them out with your fingers, no $ for a pair of pliers.


LMAO, how do you think people took care of their teeth before toothbrushes? Do you even know or are you arguing out of ignorance?

You say you don't need clothing, what ever


Tits or gtfo!

LOL....You can not live on one acre of land, you can not provide every basic need for your family on one acre...are you going to sent your kids to school with no cloths, no shoes, dirty, with the runs because they drink unsafe water and pocket full of worms for lunch, come on you know this could not work. I wish it could work but not in this life time!!!! Get real. You need much more land....100 acres and I would try it...1 acre no way!!!


Basically, don't take away my ps3 and 55" LCD huh? It's certainly doable my friend. You can pretend it's not and you can hang onto your consumerist lifestyle as if it's the only thing keeping you alive. I'll happily and healthfully live off my little patch of paradise.


reply posted on 21-4-2010 @ 10:17 PM by zaiger
reply to post by sirnex




We don't need hydro power for electricity, we need it to do work.

How in the hell am i supposed to clear cut a forest with a hydropowered chainsaw?


I'm going to have to disagree here as there are quiet a few companies out there that sell roof mounted turbines that provide more than enough energy for what is necessary. Don't confuse necessary with luxury.


Well to be honest you do not NEED electricity, what does that wooden computer you are using made out of?


We should use geothermal for heating, not electrical generation. At least that's my opinion and something we've done for thousands of years before electricity.


Do not confues what is necessary with luxury, you do not NEED a heater. Mother earth will keep you warm if you kill her buffalo and wear thier skins.


understand what your saying. Your desire to dismantle mountain ranges for coal and you insatiable need for petroleum and petroleum based products far out weighs the pristine cleanliness of our only home for our future generations.


That is not what im saying what i have been saying is theat all this green energy BS is false. None of it works it is all just made to add to the grid, most of it as i covered is not green and does not provide enough power to be an alternative to burning coal or nuclear energy.


reply posted on 21-4-2010 @ 10:18 PM by sirnex
reply to post by DerbyCityLights



sirnex, it is not even worth continuing any debate with you as you refuse to see that anyone's opinion on this subject as possibly valid. Your truth is the only truth in your head so how can any of us possibly debate this?....


Their points of opposition are not valid to my points of argument. I'm talking of maturity, responsibility, sustainability and leaving a clean home for our children and their children. What valid point's are they making? More oil? More luxuries? Are you being serious or do you just not like trying to read and understand?

Have fun with the insect bites from being naked, the various diseases you will get from not properly purifying your food because it takes current technology, mending broken bones because you want everyone to have one acre of land which leaves nothing for hospitals, your wife dying from childbirth because of the same said lack of hospitals (which was common less than 300 years ago) and the general miserable state of life you wish to pursue. Yeah, what you want is possible, but its not intelligent or enjoyable with today's advances in tech by any means.


Again folks, I can't stress this enough. I am not against *ALL* technological advancements nor am I calling for the complete collapse of modern technology. If you honestly believe this is my message then you are purposefully disregarding what I am saying whilst trying to put ideas and words in my posts that just don't exist in them. I get it, you folks value luxury over necessity. This is why we can't have nice things!

I suppose if I put a smiley after this my points will be just as valid as yours.


It won't, because you don't listen. Your thinking I'm saying one thing that I'm not which show's your not listening. You fine folks can argue till your blue in the face with me, but so long as you keep pretending I'm calling for tribal primitiveness, your points of argument against what I'm trying to say are complete nonsense and rubbish, devoid of any substantial meaning whatsoever.



[edit on 21-4-2010 by sirnex]


reply posted on 21-4-2010 @ 10:22 PM by sirnex
reply to post by zaiger



How in the hell am i supposed to clear cut a forest with a hydropowered chainsaw?


Why do you need to clear cut a forest?

Well to be honest you do not NEED electricity, what does that wooden computer you are using made out of?


Say it with me as you've seem to have forgotten every single other instance I have mentioned this. I am not against technology.

Do not confues what is necessary with luxury, you do not NEED a heater. Mother earth will keep you warm if you kill her buffalo and wear thier skins.


Don't need to kill an animal to keep my home warm.

That is not what im saying what i have been saying is theat all this green energy BS is false. None of it works it is all just made to add to the grid, most of it as i covered is not green and does not provide enough power to be an alternative to burning coal or nuclear energy.


Provide enough power for what? For our current needless drain of resources? That's just mindless drivel in my opinion. Look out your window, how many stars can you see?


reply posted on 22-4-2010 @ 12:36 AM by zaiger
reply to post by sirnex




Why do you need to clear cut a forest?


Because i want to, chill out i said i would use a solar powered chain saw. Ill burn the logs to heat my house and ill dump the ash in the river. That is kinda like green energy and recycling right?


Say it with me as you've seem to have forgotten every single other instance I have mentioned this. I am not against technology.


Yeah i know you use some wooden computer or something and you signed up for the mother earth health care plan with free tapeworms or somthin like that.


Don't need to kill an animal to keep my home warm.


lol no not your house. You just cut the buffalo skin off so it keeps you warm not your house. You can burn old tires in your fire place to keep the place warm. Tire places will usually give you old blown out ones for free. No trees are cut down and those tires can't be recycled it is about as green as you get.


Provide enough power for what?


Dude i have 4 computers that are on 24/7 all trying to get to the end of pi.My airconditioner is broken so i have to leave the freezer and fridge door open all day to keep my house cool. I needed to get another fridge because the open one makes the milk go bad. Im affraid of the dark so all my lights are on all the time. Im pretty importiant so people like me consume a whole lot more than those dirty nasty hippy people with their hemp pants and missing teeth.


Look out your window, how many stars can you see?


Just one because my window is reflective.
For our current needless drain of resources? That's just mindless drivel in my opinion. Look out your window, how many stars can you see?


reply posted on 22-4-2010 @ 06:43 AM by sirnex
reply to post by zaiger



Clearly you have nothing of substance to add tot he conversation. I appreciate your effort though, despite how riddled with arrogant ignorance it was. I hope you have a wonderful day.


reply posted on 22-4-2010 @ 06:47 AM by sirnex
reply to post by Northwarden



I'll be sure to check out that video once I find it, I watched the trailer and it looks excellent!

Our landfills are veritable gold mines of resources, it's amazing how many recyclable resources we PAY to bury into the ground never to be utilized again. I find it nearly idiotic that we don't even utilize our own excrement for the energy locked up in it. We could be extracting the methane from six billion people rather than drilling pointless holes in the ground. These naysayers say it's not possible because they know no other way than to be smart ass' out of guilt. It's OK to feel guilty guy's, but act out on that guilt in a positive rather than negative way.


reply posted on 22-4-2010 @ 08:46 AM by Unity_99
Con't:


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Judith's Papercrete Mixing Technique


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