The Earth provides for our every need for free.

page: 3
30
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join

posted on Apr, 21 2010 @ 07:04 PM
link   
reply to post by Ahabstar
 



The key point I was making is that while things are more or less freely available. There really is no such thing as a free lunch. You do have to work to obtain it. You got the point, mostly. Just a bit backwards to my intention.


I really don't understand the concept your trying to describe. I view working for someone else' gain to be more akin to voluntary slavery. I'm on this world for myself and my family, not for someone's Lamborghini.



Many feel that by working for others (like with a job) is the only way to achieve success. And sure some measure can be obtained, depending on the method of payment and the arrangement of the job itself. However, bartering eggs for grain is in a sense working for someone but is on the scale of an equitable return. Because you are producing more than you need in exchange for not producing grain.


What if I don't like grain and everything I do like I can make enough for my family? What if I can provide every basic need for my entire family on just a mere acre of land? I don't need grain or beef to live a very healthy life. Nor do I want grain or beef as they aren't healthy at all!



The catch is not to become too dependent on others such as having people gather all your eggs in exchange for some eggs and some grain. The danger here is two fold. You could become to greedy and not give as much eggs or grain or that your gathers could leave you in the lurch in search of a better deal, leaving you with far less than you could have done.


This scenario seems more about purposefully not producing one or more things that you require while over producing other things. That's silly.



The problem of trying to do it all alone is that your time between different things becomes so divided that you end up with little at all in the end. One of the main reasons that the solo survivalist is harder than having a small group of like minded friends. Bob can fish, while John gathers wild edibles and Tim tends the garden and works on bettering the shelters/huts. Bob may fail, and Tim produces nothing today until harvest.


I've never had to work very hard to tend my own crops, gather my own wild edibles or collect my own rainwater. Why do people think it's such a hard job? I hardly have to do a thing!


Doing that alone means having to tend the garden on an empty stomach, grabbing a few edibles along the way to the fishing spot. Repairs to the shelter will only come if fishing is successful early.


So you don't believe in food storage?


All currency is labor at a set and agreed value of barter. Eggs or dollars, it is all the same, except you can't live on dollars alone.


I agree, one can't live on illusory beliefs alone, nor should one even bother attempting to. I need food, water and shelter, not paper money. Yet, why are we allowing ourselves to acquire paper money that holds no real value instead of what we really need that is of value? This is part of the point I was trying to make. Our labor should be for our benefit, I would never work for YOU so you can buy a Lamborghini. However, I will work happily for myself to feed and nourish my family.




posted on Apr, 21 2010 @ 08:28 PM
link   
reply to post by fernx
 



so that works out to about 5 acres per person ( give or take this is just rough math )....and that is all the land....kind of hard to grow vegs. in the arctic or graze a cow on 5 acres of rock on top of a Mt.

just something to think about.....


Not with a greenhouse that is solar-powered using hydroponics and computer software to grow your food.

I would embrace technology.




[edit on 4/21/2010 by dalan.]



posted on Apr, 21 2010 @ 08:36 PM
link   

Originally posted by sirnexYet, why are we allowing ourselves to acquire paper money that holds no real value instead of what we really need that is of value?


Because of brainwashing, a purposeful dumbing down of society, and unrestrained, willful deception and fraud. Welcome to the rabbit hole, would you like to peer inside?

www.supremelaw.org...



posted on Apr, 21 2010 @ 09:15 PM
link   

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by Ahabstar
 


What if I don't like grain and everything I do like I can make enough for my family? What if I can provide every basic need for my entire family on just a mere acre of land? I don't need grain or beef to live a very healthy life. Nor do I want grain or beef as they aren't healthy at all!


I've never had to work very hard to tend my own crops, gather my own wild edibles or collect my own rainwater. Why do people think it's such a hard job? I hardly have to do a thing!

So you don't believe in food storage?



Sorry I can't help myself LOL

Did you even read the link you put up???
www.ehow.com...

Where are you going to get your seeds???

Your jars for canning??

You need vinegar and salt to can...botulism poisoning!!!

Pressure cooker, $ remember you don't have enough land for firewood!

Yes your link say you have enough room to raise an animal (we know you don't eat beef ) but you still do not have enough room to grow crops for that animal to eat, you will have to go to the feed store = $

You say you collect rain water...are you drinking it?? needs to be disinfected...filter and boiling cost $

Gather wild edibles?? Where on your one acre or will you trespass.

You say you will eat worms and grasshopers, where do you live??? Most parts of the world it snows for half of the year...can't jar them you don't have the things to do that.

You say you don't use soaps...you know you can get nasty skin funguses.

How are you going to brush your teeth??? What will you do when they get infected??? Pull them out with your fingers, no $ for a pair of pliers.

You say you don't need clothing, what ever

LOL....You can not live on one acre of land, you can not provide every basic need for your family on one acre...are you going to sent your kids to school with no cloths, no shoes, dirty, with the runs because they drink unsafe water and pocket full of worms for lunch, come on you know this could not work. I wish it could work but not in this life time!!!! Get real. You need much more land....100 acres and I would try it...1 acre no way!!!

cheers



posted on Apr, 21 2010 @ 09:32 PM
link   
reply to post by fernx
 



Where are you going to get your seeds???


From my heirloom crops of course. Not all food is un-viable GMO garbage my friend. Heirloom vegetables are more nutritious, hardy and taste much better than our supermarket GMO crops.



Your jars for canning??

You need vinegar and salt to can...botulism poisoning!!!

Pressure cooker, $ remember you don't have enough land for firewood!


I prefer solar dehydration over canning myself. A technique we've used for thousands of years before omgosh... jars and canning!



Yes your link say you have enough room to raise an animal (we know you don't eat beef ) but you still do not have enough room to grow crops for that animal to eat, you will have to go to the feed store = $


Your argument is lost as I would have no need to grow crops for something I don't own to feed. What exactly is your point my friend?


You say you collect rain water...are you drinking it?? needs to be disinfected...filter and boiling cost $


So... The only way to filter and clean water is to buy a filter and boil it with a gas or electric cooker? Interesting, wonder how we've managed before these wondrous inventions!


Gather wild edibles?? Where on your one acre or will you trespass.


Hmm, I can't recall saying anything about wild edibles, but since we're on the topic I can name quiet a decent bunch that grows right in my backyard.


You say you will eat worms and grasshopers, where do you live??? Most parts of the world it snows for half of the year...can't jar them you don't have the things to do that.


Your right, no one can survive at all living in a four season climate without industrialized civilization. It simply can't be done, has never be done!



You say you don't use soaps...you know you can get nasty skin funguses.


Sure, if you don't wash yourself. I'm surprised we survived long enough with all our nasty diseases before the invention of soap. I can't even imagine how all these animals are keeping clean without our magic corrosive lye's!



How are you going to brush your teeth??? What will you do when they get infected??? Pull them out with your fingers, no $ for a pair of pliers.


LMAO, how do you think people took care of their teeth before toothbrushes? Do you even know or are you arguing out of ignorance?



You say you don't need clothing, what ever


Tits or gtfo!



LOL....You can not live on one acre of land, you can not provide every basic need for your family on one acre...are you going to sent your kids to school with no cloths, no shoes, dirty, with the runs because they drink unsafe water and pocket full of worms for lunch, come on you know this could not work. I wish it could work but not in this life time!!!! Get real. You need much more land....100 acres and I would try it...1 acre no way!!!


Basically, don't take away my ps3 and 55" LCD huh? It's certainly doable my friend. You can pretend it's not and you can hang onto your consumerist lifestyle as if it's the only thing keeping you alive. I'll happily and healthfully live off my little patch of paradise.



posted on Apr, 21 2010 @ 10:07 PM
link   
sirnex, it is not even worth continuing any debate with you as you refuse to see that anyone's opinion on this subject as possibly valid. Your truth is the only truth in your head so how can any of us possibly debate this?....

Have fun with the insect bites from being naked, the various diseases you will get from not properly purifying your food because it takes current technology, mending broken bones because you want everyone to have one acre of land which leaves nothing for hospitals, your wife dying from childbirth because of the same said lack of hospitals (which was common less than 300 years ago) and the general miserable state of life you wish to pursue. Yeah, what you want is possible, but its not intelligent or enjoyable with today's advances in tech by any means.

I suppose if I put a smiley after this my points will be just as valid as yours.



posted on Apr, 21 2010 @ 10:17 PM
link   
reply to post by sirnex
 




We don't need hydro power for electricity, we need it to do work.

How in the hell am i supposed to clear cut a forest with a hydropowered chainsaw?



I'm going to have to disagree here as there are quiet a few companies out there that sell roof mounted turbines that provide more than enough energy for what is necessary. Don't confuse necessary with luxury.


Well to be honest you do not NEED electricity, what does that wooden computer you are using made out of?



We should use geothermal for heating, not electrical generation. At least that's my opinion and something we've done for thousands of years before electricity.


Do not confues what is necessary with luxury, you do not NEED a heater. Mother earth will keep you warm if you kill her buffalo and wear thier skins.



understand what your saying. Your desire to dismantle mountain ranges for coal and you insatiable need for petroleum and petroleum based products far out weighs the pristine cleanliness of our only home for our future generations.


That is not what im saying what i have been saying is theat all this green energy BS is false. None of it works it is all just made to add to the grid, most of it as i covered is not green and does not provide enough power to be an alternative to burning coal or nuclear energy.



posted on Apr, 21 2010 @ 10:18 PM
link   
reply to post by DerbyCityLights
 



sirnex, it is not even worth continuing any debate with you as you refuse to see that anyone's opinion on this subject as possibly valid. Your truth is the only truth in your head so how can any of us possibly debate this?....


Their points of opposition are not valid to my points of argument. I'm talking of maturity, responsibility, sustainability and leaving a clean home for our children and their children. What valid point's are they making? More oil? More luxuries? Are you being serious or do you just not like trying to read and understand?


Have fun with the insect bites from being naked, the various diseases you will get from not properly purifying your food because it takes current technology, mending broken bones because you want everyone to have one acre of land which leaves nothing for hospitals, your wife dying from childbirth because of the same said lack of hospitals (which was common less than 300 years ago) and the general miserable state of life you wish to pursue. Yeah, what you want is possible, but its not intelligent or enjoyable with today's advances in tech by any means.


Again folks, I can't stress this enough. I am not against *ALL* technological advancements nor am I calling for the complete collapse of modern technology. If you honestly believe this is my message then you are purposefully disregarding what I am saying whilst trying to put ideas and words in my posts that just don't exist in them. I get it, you folks value luxury over necessity. This is why we can't have nice things!


I suppose if I put a smiley after this my points will be just as valid as yours.


It won't, because you don't listen. Your thinking I'm saying one thing that I'm not which show's your not listening. You fine folks can argue till your blue in the face with me, but so long as you keep pretending I'm calling for tribal primitiveness, your points of argument against what I'm trying to say are complete nonsense and rubbish, devoid of any substantial meaning whatsoever.




[edit on 21-4-2010 by sirnex]



posted on Apr, 21 2010 @ 10:22 PM
link   
reply to post by zaiger
 



How in the hell am i supposed to clear cut a forest with a hydropowered chainsaw?


Why do you need to clear cut a forest?


Well to be honest you do not NEED electricity, what does that wooden computer you are using made out of?


Say it with me as you've seem to have forgotten every single other instance I have mentioned this. I am not against technology.


Do not confues what is necessary with luxury, you do not NEED a heater. Mother earth will keep you warm if you kill her buffalo and wear thier skins.


Don't need to kill an animal to keep my home warm.


That is not what im saying what i have been saying is theat all this green energy BS is false. None of it works it is all just made to add to the grid, most of it as i covered is not green and does not provide enough power to be an alternative to burning coal or nuclear energy.


Provide enough power for what? For our current needless drain of resources? That's just mindless drivel in my opinion. Look out your window, how many stars can you see?



posted on Apr, 21 2010 @ 10:23 PM
link   
sirnex, answer me this he. If everyone gets there one acre of land and nothing is left for infrastructure or any of those technologies you keep saying you don't want to get rid of, how do you propose to live any other way but as a tribal society?



posted on Apr, 21 2010 @ 10:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by DerbyCityLights
sirnex, answer me this he. If everyone gets there one acre of land and nothing is left for infrastructure or any of those technologies you keep saying you don't want to get rid of, how do you propose to live any other way but as a tribal society?


How about a sustainable arcology? We can cram more people in less land than we currently do in our most populated cities. It's about responsibility, not about going back to living in tepees. We can still live in a free community working as a free community in a responsible and sustainable fashion without needing to destroy our home the way we are today.

But that is just one idea. I challenge you to give me an alternative as well.



posted on Apr, 21 2010 @ 10:47 PM
link   
My hat is off to you if you can get by on one acre of land for all the things you will need to sustain yourself and a family. I would think a minimum of five in order to rotate soil fertility for crops, grow fuel for fire, enjoy the benefits of a safe septic system for waste.

I might suggest a couple animals as beasts of burden to help with minor trivial things and such as essential fats from milk products like butter or cheese. Eggs are excellent sources of protein, easier to acquire than beans or meat. Grains such as corn or wheat for the chickens and of bread.

But there are two schools of thought going on here. A permanent establishment versus a nomadic lifestyle. In you set down roots, eventually the taxman will come for his cut for using the land. And that little weasel only accepts currency. A nomadic life will get you out of taxes, but we are back to hunting and gathering. Of course you can do a hybrid of the two and move every so many years to fresher resources.

Now if your plans are a bit more exotic such as raising insects for food and tiered gardens for growing then you just might get by with an acre. Especially composting leaves back into the soil for fertilizer each fall. And generating electricity for temperture control and so on.



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 12:36 AM
link   
reply to post by sirnex
 




Why do you need to clear cut a forest?


Because i want to, chill out i said i would use a solar powered chain saw. Ill burn the logs to heat my house and ill dump the ash in the river. That is kinda like green energy and recycling right?



Say it with me as you've seem to have forgotten every single other instance I have mentioned this. I am not against technology.


Yeah i know you use some wooden computer or something and you signed up for the mother earth health care plan with free tapeworms or somthin like that.



Don't need to kill an animal to keep my home warm.


lol no not your house. You just cut the buffalo skin off so it keeps you warm not your house. You can burn old tires in your fire place to keep the place warm. Tire places will usually give you old blown out ones for free. No trees are cut down and those tires can't be recycled it is about as green as you get.



Provide enough power for what?


Dude i have 4 computers that are on 24/7 all trying to get to the end of pi.My airconditioner is broken so i have to leave the freezer and fridge door open all day to keep my house cool. I needed to get another fridge because the open one makes the milk go bad. Im affraid of the dark so all my lights are on all the time. Im pretty importiant so people like me consume a whole lot more than those dirty nasty hippy people with their hemp pants and missing teeth.



Look out your window, how many stars can you see?


Just one because my window is reflective.
For our current needless drain of resources? That's just mindless drivel in my opinion. Look out your window, how many stars can you see?



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 01:11 AM
link   
Excellant points of view ! It's reminding me of a thread I saw recently, but forget to check out before it was buried. It was full of new concepts, images throughout, using clever and ecologically friendly designs for the future. I think it deserves a link here if anyone remembers it!

The documentary Garbage Warrior showed how inexpensively we could build, with amazing results from recyclable products. One of the experimental homes had sky-tiled southern facing windows, and the winter desert conditions were -35, -40. The house was not heated, yet the heat within was intense enough to melt a plastic typewriter.

www.garbagewarrior.com...

I camped out from May to early December last year, and learned to love the rain. I was working all the while, it wasn't too far from town, and I saved a pile on rent. It was blissful not knowing what was up in the world. These days I find it's more important to stay in tune with events however :/



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 06:43 AM
link   
reply to post by zaiger
 


Clearly you have nothing of substance to add tot he conversation. I appreciate your effort though, despite how riddled with arrogant ignorance it was. I hope you have a wonderful day.



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 06:47 AM
link   
reply to post by Northwarden
 


I'll be sure to check out that video once I find it, I watched the trailer and it looks excellent!

Our landfills are veritable gold mines of resources, it's amazing how many recyclable resources we PAY to bury into the ground never to be utilized again. I find it nearly idiotic that we don't even utilize our own excrement for the energy locked up in it. We could be extracting the methane from six billion people rather than drilling pointless holes in the ground. These naysayers say it's not possible because they know no other way than to be smart ass' out of guilt. It's OK to feel guilty guy's, but act out on that guilt in a positive rather than negative way.



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 08:40 AM
link   
Earthship homes are wonderful, and learning ahead of time the systems they have for sale in their plans, the recylced water, that makes use of purified rain water, and putting through a variety of uses, until it finally is recycled back into the ground, is something we should learn, along with solar and wind generators. They're built with certain layout, widows and insulation and without heat hold a good temperature, warm in the winter, cool in the summer,with greenhouse area inside. Tropical plants such as bananas do well.

However, cement is not enviromentally friendly. Using earth/soil/clay minerals is better.

My father told me what he would do is, build a structure in a hillside, using say pcp pipes as the frame. He would use a slurry that was strong and lightweight, such as: paper crepe, with recyled papermach mixed with: hemp fibres which are amongst the strongest in the world.

Need to collect information on natural dyes, pigments, paints, and also glues and resins, for this needs to sealed. Take out the pvp pipes when its dried and move it on to the next dwelling to erect.

Here are some videos I collected:


Earthships 101 part I


Earthships 101 part II


Straw Bale Geodesic Dome


Natural alternative building


FIRST EARTH (11/12) - Uncompromising Ecological Architecture



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 08:42 AM
link   
The OP reads almost exactly the same as "Old Major"'s speech in Animal Farm:

www.george-orwell.org...



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 08:46 AM
link   
Con't:


Organic living Grass house off the Grid Canada 2008


Earthbag Building


Judith's Papercrete Mixing Technique


Cob Guest House in Seattle - Natural building with Clay - Tamacun


For The Love of Mud

www.greenhomebuilding.com...

www.kleiwerks.org...



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 08:51 AM
link   
The problem for the homeless, and those without land, is more than having to try and get past local building codes. So many would need to collect a small like minded group locally, into survival, and tools, blueprints and abilties to build AFTER a catastrophe.

Then I thought, well one way, to avoid paying rent, may show some solidarity and become adventurers themselves, would be to form gypsy/hippy caravans, create your own trailers, and homes on wheels, with groups and of people, and move around, ensure your have some portable shelters and a caravan for greenhousing too. Off the grid generators. Make sure your vehicles are modified to run on biofuels, peanut oil/deisel or alchohol and make it from debris, it burns clean. And solar wind.



[edit on 22-4-2010 by Unity_99]





new topics

top topics



 
30
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join