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The key point I was making is that while things are more or less freely available. There really is no such thing as a free lunch. You do have to work to obtain it. You got the point, mostly. Just a bit backwards to my intention.
Many feel that by working for others (like with a job) is the only way to achieve success. And sure some measure can be obtained, depending on the method of payment and the arrangement of the job itself. However, bartering eggs for grain is in a sense working for someone but is on the scale of an equitable return. Because you are producing more than you need in exchange for not producing grain.
The catch is not to become too dependent on others such as having people gather all your eggs in exchange for some eggs and some grain. The danger here is two fold. You could become to greedy and not give as much eggs or grain or that your gathers could leave you in the lurch in search of a better deal, leaving you with far less than you could have done.
The problem of trying to do it all alone is that your time between different things becomes so divided that you end up with little at all in the end. One of the main reasons that the solo survivalist is harder than having a small group of like minded friends. Bob can fish, while John gathers wild edibles and Tim tends the garden and works on bettering the shelters/huts. Bob may fail, and Tim produces nothing today until harvest.
Doing that alone means having to tend the garden on an empty stomach, grabbing a few edibles along the way to the fishing spot. Repairs to the shelter will only come if fishing is successful early.
All currency is labor at a set and agreed value of barter. Eggs or dollars, it is all the same, except you can't live on dollars alone.
so that works out to about 5 acres per person ( give or take this is just rough math )....and that is all the land....kind of hard to grow vegs. in the arctic or graze a cow on 5 acres of rock on top of a Mt.
just something to think about.....
Originally posted by sirnexYet, why are we allowing ourselves to acquire paper money that holds no real value instead of what we really need that is of value?
Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by Ahabstar
What if I don't like grain and everything I do like I can make enough for my family? What if I can provide every basic need for my entire family on just a mere acre of land? I don't need grain or beef to live a very healthy life. Nor do I want grain or beef as they aren't healthy at all!
I've never had to work very hard to tend my own crops, gather my own wild edibles or collect my own rainwater. Why do people think it's such a hard job? I hardly have to do a thing!
So you don't believe in food storage?
Where are you going to get your seeds???
Your jars for canning??
You need vinegar and salt to can...botulism poisoning!!!
Pressure cooker, $ remember you don't have enough land for firewood!
Yes your link say you have enough room to raise an animal (we know you don't eat beef ) but you still do not have enough room to grow crops for that animal to eat, you will have to go to the feed store = $
You say you collect rain water...are you drinking it?? needs to be disinfected...filter and boiling cost $
Gather wild edibles?? Where on your one acre or will you trespass.
You say you will eat worms and grasshopers, where do you live??? Most parts of the world it snows for half of the year...can't jar them you don't have the things to do that.
You say you don't use soaps...you know you can get nasty skin funguses.
How are you going to brush your teeth??? What will you do when they get infected??? Pull them out with your fingers, no $ for a pair of pliers.
You say you don't need clothing, what ever
LOL....You can not live on one acre of land, you can not provide every basic need for your family on one acre...are you going to sent your kids to school with no cloths, no shoes, dirty, with the runs because they drink unsafe water and pocket full of worms for lunch, come on you know this could not work. I wish it could work but not in this life time!!!! Get real. You need much more land....100 acres and I would try it...1 acre no way!!!
We don't need hydro power for electricity, we need it to do work.
I'm going to have to disagree here as there are quiet a few companies out there that sell roof mounted turbines that provide more than enough energy for what is necessary. Don't confuse necessary with luxury.
We should use geothermal for heating, not electrical generation. At least that's my opinion and something we've done for thousands of years before electricity.
understand what your saying. Your desire to dismantle mountain ranges for coal and you insatiable need for petroleum and petroleum based products far out weighs the pristine cleanliness of our only home for our future generations.
sirnex, it is not even worth continuing any debate with you as you refuse to see that anyone's opinion on this subject as possibly valid. Your truth is the only truth in your head so how can any of us possibly debate this?....
Have fun with the insect bites from being naked, the various diseases you will get from not properly purifying your food because it takes current technology, mending broken bones because you want everyone to have one acre of land which leaves nothing for hospitals, your wife dying from childbirth because of the same said lack of hospitals (which was common less than 300 years ago) and the general miserable state of life you wish to pursue. Yeah, what you want is possible, but its not intelligent or enjoyable with today's advances in tech by any means.
I suppose if I put a smiley after this my points will be just as valid as yours.
How in the hell am i supposed to clear cut a forest with a hydropowered chainsaw?
Well to be honest you do not NEED electricity, what does that wooden computer you are using made out of?
Do not confues what is necessary with luxury, you do not NEED a heater. Mother earth will keep you warm if you kill her buffalo and wear thier skins.
That is not what im saying what i have been saying is theat all this green energy BS is false. None of it works it is all just made to add to the grid, most of it as i covered is not green and does not provide enough power to be an alternative to burning coal or nuclear energy.
Originally posted by DerbyCityLights
sirnex, answer me this he. If everyone gets there one acre of land and nothing is left for infrastructure or any of those technologies you keep saying you don't want to get rid of, how do you propose to live any other way but as a tribal society?
Why do you need to clear cut a forest?
Say it with me as you've seem to have forgotten every single other instance I have mentioned this. I am not against technology.
Don't need to kill an animal to keep my home warm.
Provide enough power for what?
Look out your window, how many stars can you see?