Teapartiers: What an outrage!

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by Afterall

I live in NY state. I am pretty far from Mexico or any other country aside from the very white Canadadia! Guess what, white people are kind of rare in many parts of town here. We have people of all colors and races. This law subjects these AMERICAN CITIZENS to random search and detainment. How does that fix the illegal alien problem again?

No it doesn't...it is a law in the state of Ariz only.....

I understand it is a law in Arizona only but I do not live in Arizona so I was trying to relate to the fact that there are not just white Americans. Can you show me that Arizona is not racially and culturally diverse within its legal population? If so then my point is way off. If not, then it is more than a fair comparison.

Why is everyone assuming it is some kind of Fed law and apply it to their state too, or suggest the Teapartiers should get involved in a state level action?

I am not assuming that, you are just having trouble reading some of the posts you do not agree with. It is ok, I do that too. We all make mistakes, just slow down, relax, and read more of what you get upset with.

Originally posted by Jenna

Originally posted by Xtrozero
No it doesn't...it is a law in the state of Ariz only.....

Why is everyone assuming it is some kind of Fed law and apply it to their state too, or suggest the Teapartiers should get involved in a state level action?

Are citizens of Arizona not American citizens as well?

States have a tendency to enact similar laws. Once one does something, it's only a matter of time before others decide to follow suit. It may only affect Arizona for now, but how long before other states are contemplating similar legislation?

Absolutely agree 100% State laws are like dominos.

Aside from that though, Some of us USAers kind of feel like we should be able to travel from one state to another and still be treated with the liberties an American Citizen should be due. I hate to think I have to chose between visiting Arizona and being prepared to have to prove where I was born any time I make eye contact with a uniform.

reply to post by skunknuts


Basically if this law is passed most wasp looking people will not be troubled at all but if you look anything different then watch out. State harrasment. There will be many "fishing trips" in certain parts of town and not others. Now throw in the lax gun laws in the mix and someone will pull their piece. What fun!

Originally posted by endisnighe
Real simple solutions is the problem of government. Pass a law that states that if a businessperson, hospital or government official that does not do their due diligence proving the person they either hire, treat or give government assistance is here legally, they get thrown in jail.

PROBLEM SOLVED!

Where you been?

Isn't that a utilization of a governmental apparatus?

Originally posted by Afterall

Originally posted by Xtrozero
It always comes back to big business doesn't it? I don't agree that this is all big business though. OK how about this….
A team goes into a company and checks everyone working there and the company is fined as follows..

There are civil and criminal penalties for hiring illegal aliens. Sec. 274A of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) and 8 U.S.C. 1324a, makes it unlawful for any person knowingly to hire, recruit or refer for a fee any alien not authorized to work. An employer that violates these laws can face penalties of:

• $250 to $2,000 fine for each unauthorized individual;

• $2,000 to $5,000 for each employee if the employer has previously been in violation; or

• $3,000 to $10,000 for each individual if the employer was subject to more than one cease and desist order.
The employer could also be fined $100 to $1,000 for each individual “paperwork” violation.

The criminal penalties for a pattern and practice violation can be up to $3,000 for each unauthorized alien, imprisonment up to six months, or both.

OK...and...?


BTW what does the Teapartiers have anything to do with something at the state level?

[edit on 20-4-2010 by Xtrozero]

I cannot speak for the OP but from what I understand they are all about freedom and liberty. They hate Hitler, Fascism, Communism, Socialism. They think that the government intrudes too far into our freedom. I believe the OP feels that following exactly in the footsteps of the Nazi SS might be an issue they should have a problem with.

Yes, pretty much.

So many threads on ATS concern people who take a whiff of anything concerning the government and multiply its possible ramifications to the nth degree. Now, here in the real world, we have a possible law (rammed down the throats of people that love liberty by the republican establishment) that REQUIRES law enforcement to detain ANYONE that APPEARS to POSSIBLY be here illegally.

If one is not offended by this proposition, they have NO damn business espousing rhetoric about the constitution and liberty. If the tea-party movement won't cross party lines on this one, it proves they are completely full of it.

Again, it is issues like this that separate libertarian liberty-loving Ron Paul tea-partiers from authoritarian brown-shirt-wannabe republican in sheep's clothing Sarah Palin teabaggers.

IT'S JUST THAT SIMPLE.

Best,
Skunknuts

[edit on 4/20/2010 by skunknuts]

Originally posted by Afterall

I understand it is a law in Arizona only but I do not live in Arizona so I was trying to relate to the fact that there are not just white Americans. Can you show me that Arizona is not racially and culturally diverse within its legal population? If so then my point is way off. If not, then it is more than a fair comparison.

I don't think it is a fair comparison because every state is different. Some have the death penalty and others don’t, some have strict gun laws and others don’t, some have strict drinking laws and others don’t and so on… The point is what makes them all different is the people who live in those states and the laws that they pass to live by. So what might be good and work well in Ariz might not in NY.

I understand the point that this law could be over reaching and cause trouble, but the only reason it would be considered to be over reaching is the fact (we all know, but just don’t want to say) that the vast majority of illegals are Mexicans, and so this very nature of the problem causes it to maybe over reach too. The important part to it that I see is that the people of Ariz are the ones who voted on it to affect only them.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by Afterall

I understand it is a law in Arizona only but I do not live in Arizona so I was trying to relate to the fact that there are not just white Americans. Can you show me that Arizona is not racially and culturally diverse within its legal population? If so then my point is way off. If not, then it is more than a fair comparison.

I don't think it is a fair comparison because every state is different. Some have the death penalty and others don’t, some have strict gun laws and others don’t, some have strict drinking laws and others don’t and so on… The point is what makes them all different is the people who live in those states and the laws that they pass to live by. So what might be good and work well in Ariz might not in NY.

I understand the point that this law could be over reaching and cause trouble, but the only reason it would be considered to be over reaching is the fact (we all know, but just don’t want to say) that the vast majority of illegals are Mexicans, and so this very nature of the problem causes it to maybe over reach too. The important part to it that I see is that the people of Ariz are the ones who voted on it to affect only them.

Yes, there are many issues that allow states to vary in how they operate. However, states can't make laws that violate the constitution. This is regardless of motivations, perceived threats and issues, and how bigoted that state's populace.

MANDATED harassment by law enforcement of those that POSSIBLY may APPEAR to be here illegally is an utter abortion of the constitution.

There is no way the supreme court will let such an abomination stand, but it's pathetic that it would even come to that.

Best,
Skunknuts

Originally posted by Xtrozero
I don't think it is a fair comparison because every state is different.

Yes they are but in this particular instance...

I live in a racially diverse state that has a DIRECT BORDER with a foreign country. How can that not apply to a discussion about illegal immigration? I also live in a very rural area....farmland...get it. You know who usually work on farms, especially in border states, right?

Some have the death penalty and others don’t, some have strict gun laws and others don’t, some have strict drinking laws and others don’t and so on…

None of those things apply in any way to the makeup of the people or the bill we are discussing. So when making up what someone says does not work, you go off topic in a rant?

The point is what makes them all different is the people who live in those states and the laws that they pass to live by. So what might be good and work well in Ariz might not in NY.

I know that. If we were strictly discussing the differences between states, you would have my total agreement. All I was doing was taking a bill that is supposed to tackle a border issue by targeting a race issue and applying it to my state where we...you know...have a border and race issues. I am sorry you did not like it.

That is fine. I never said my comparison was perfect. You must have liked it some though because it has provided you ample opportunity to attack my comparison and completely avoid any real valid argument in favor of this bill. You are welcome.

I understand the point that this law could be over reaching and cause trouble, but the only reason it would be considered to be over reaching is the fact (we all know, but just don’t want to say) that the vast majority of illegals are Mexicans, and so this very nature of the problem causes it to maybe over reach too.

Let's just go with that for a moment. Suppose most serial killers were white men. I mean, let's just say. Now we want to enact a law to help prevent them instead of catch them. Well, this law just might infringe upon your constitutional rights but you will agree because it is fair that you suffer because of what other white people do, right?

How many LEGAL Arizonians are of Mexican heritage or even just look like it? I think you will find that the stats nullify your point.

The important part to it that I see is that the people of Ariz are the ones who voted on it to affect only them.

Yeah, you are right. Now that your point is slipping farther and farther into the oblivion that is its thinly veiled rascism, you are right it is none of our business....anymore.

Originally posted by Afterall
How many LEGAL Arizonians are of Mexican heritage or even just look like it?

Ask and ye shall receive.

Arizona QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau
Persons of Hispanic or Latino origin, percent, 2008 (b) 30.1%

Edit: And that's not including those who are American Indian, Alaskan Native, Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander that could potentially be mistaken as being of Hispanic descent by those who don't know the difference.

[edit on 20-4-2010 by Jenna]

Originally posted by Afterall
You missed my point. There are already people who are tasked with that job. If you feel they are not doing it well enough, then do not send your kids to that school.

But they can't...you need to prove you live in the school district..i.e. gas bill etc but they cannot ask you if you are a citizen.. Why do you think there is over a million children in the California school system that should not be there, bad workers?

So you think a 6 year old illegal immigrant can force a school to add him as a student? How about the school administration that is supposed to check vital stats? Around here, you need to prove that you belong in the school district to go to the school and people are routinely caught breaking that. The schools that do their jobs in routing out the problem are the ones I would send my kids to.

They can and do all the time.... If they live in that district they can go to that school...doesn't matter if they are illegal or not.

I live in Western RURAL New York. Show me some numbers. Show me just what illegals cost me compared to what I pay in useless taxes.

And WOW this bill doesn't affect you at all and if you get a chance to vote on it one day then vote no...it’s that simple. So maybe if you think a little you will realize that just maybe there are a lot of illegals in Ariz that abuse all the services there and cost that state a ton of money and high crime rate that maybe you in rural NY do not have?

They voted on it and so they need to live with it, and they need to pay for it.


[edit on 20-4-2010 by Xtrozero]

reply to post by skunknuts


Are you a personal representative of the DNC, The Daily Koss or Obama? Are you paid to spread propaganda for them or do you do it for free?

You will never get it. We are opposed to both Parties. Both Parties are evil and corrupt. Bush / Obama are the same person who answer to the same people.

Thank God you only represent a tiny fraction of the population. You are bought an paid for whether you are paid or not.

Your OP is a personal attack full of lies, so I have no problem pointing out the giant log in your eye. It must be huge to block your vision at this level.

Enjoy the flags from the the Troll patrol. We know what you are really after.

Are you an Illegal Alien yourself perhaps. Maybe your related to the one who slaughtered my Sister In-Law and left her children without any Parents. He was one of the people you are protecting just so they vote for Obama. From this point forward I'll hold you personally responsible for her death. I already hold Bush responsible and now Obama because they are too cowardly to close the border. She was stabbed so many times, the Coroner could not count them all. They won't even deport him because of people like you.

Or are just a teenage Troll who gets his rocks off posting crap like this? Fess up now, your really 12 years old right and somebody else tells you what to type.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by skunknuts

 

You will never get it. We are opposed to both Parties. Both Parties are evil and corrupt. Bush / Obama are the same person who answer to the same people.

Are you an Illegal Alien yourself perhaps. Maybe your related to the one who slaughtered my Sister In-Law and left her children without any Parents. He was one of the people you are protecting just so they vote for Obama. From this point forward I'll hold you personally responsible for her death. I already hold Bush responsible and now Obama because they are too cowardly to close the border. She was stabbed so many times, the Coroner could not count them all. They won't even deport him because of people like you.

I guess, because of your sad story, you get a pass for being irrational on this topic. Nevertheless, holding me responsible for your family's murder? WTF!!!???

You claim to see both parties as the same--great! Too bad you seem to want a third party--the Authoritarian Party!

If you love liberty and the constitution, you will be against this law.

Best,
Skunknuts

P.S. Based on your angry paranoid insinuations, I would think you, in particular, would be against this tripe of a law. I guess doth protest too much, no?

P.P.S. Since you have accused me of being illegal, do I need to go check in at a camp or something and submit my papers to get out? Is there a yellow arm band you want me to wear. How about you look at my penis, are Mexicans usually circumcised?

[edit on 4/21/2010 by skunknuts]

I love this topic...because it shows the hypocrisy of the right wing.

In on topic, healthcare, they scream that government is too intrusive in their lives. And then in this topic they gladly accept with open arms the beginning of a police state and the foot in the door for a National ID (which they will also complain about in another thread).


So what is the best way for the government to get their foot in the door to create a police state...take something the majority hates (in this case it is brown people) and use that to do whatever they want.


I just find it hilarious that these same people will scream about airport scanners...but have no problem with allowing law enforcement to check your status anytime they feel like it. And don't you DARE make them buy health insurance...but feel free to detain them to run their legal status.

Because in their mind it will only apply to brown people...watch them cry and complain when they get detained just because the police officers can do it. And I hope...I so hope...that the police tell them they won't accept anything but their long form birth certificate.


Hypocrits...they make me laugh.

Double Post

[edit on 21-4-2010 by OutKast Searcher]

reply to post by Janky Red


No, since I do not get my Libertarian Society, I can give rational ideas that would work. I think setting the penalty for government people for 10 years for every offense and the others for maybe 5 days for each offense could be a good solution to the problems with government.

That way all of government would be in jail in only a matter of months. We all know they cannot keep their bloody hands off giving things out for free.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
I love this topic...because it shows the hypocrisy of the right wing.

Because in their mind it will only apply to brown people...watch them cry and complain when they get detained just because the police officers can do it. And I hope...I so hope...that the police tell them they won't accept anything but their long form birth certificate.

Hypocrits...they make me laugh.

BWAHAHAHAHA! I didn't see the long-form comment coming. That was great humor. I need a laugh (especially now that I have the burden of responsibility for two motherless children).

Best,
Skunknuts

Originally posted by skunknuts
There is no way the supreme court will let such an abomination stand, but it's pathetic that it would even come to that.

The meat of the bill that everyone is upset about is this.

A. No official, agency or personnel of this state or county, city or town of this state may adopt a policy that limits the enforcement of federal immigration laws to the full extent permitted by federal law. For any legitimate contact made by such officials, agencies or personnel where reasonable suspicion exists regarding the immigration status of a person, a reasonable attempt shall be made to determine the immigration status of the person.

reply to post by Blaine91555

Are you an Illegal Alien yourself perhaps. Maybe your related to the one who slaughtered my Sister In-Law and left her children without any Parents. He was one of the people you are protecting just so they vote for Obama. From this point forward I'll hold you personally responsible for her death. I already hold Bush responsible and now Obama because they are too cowardly to close the border. She was stabbed so many times, the Coroner could not count them all. They won't even deport him because of people like you.

While I'm sorry for your situation...it makes a poor argument. Because you are saying that since an illegal immigrant killed your sister-in-law...then they are all bad...and apparently all murderers.

He killed your sister-in-law because he was a murderer...not because he was an illegal alien. I know your argument...if he wasn't here...she wouldn't of been murdered. That is all fine and well...but then you can also blame other people for her being where she was at that time. Did she live in that area her whole life??? Then blame her parents for living there. Did she move because of her husband??? Then blame him for moving there. Do you see how this gets stupid really really quick. Like I said...I'm sorry for what happened...but it didn't happen because he was illegal...it happened because he was a murderer.

Would her murder be any less of a tragedy if she was murdered by a good ol' USA citizen???

And I'm assuming you are working on getting all knives banned from being owned by anyone...because she was killed by a knife. So since she was killed by that one knife...all knives should be exported out of the country.


Again...sorry for your loss...but it makes a very very poor argument.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by skunknuts
There is no way the supreme court will let such an abomination stand, but it's pathetic that it would even come to that.

The meat of the bill that everyone is upset about is this.

A. No official, agency or personnel of this state or county, city or town of this state may adopt a policy that limits the enforcement of federal immigration laws to the full extent permitted by federal law. For any legitimate contact made by such officials, agencies or personnel where reasonable suspicion exists regarding the immigration status of a person, a reasonable attempt shall be made to determine the immigration status of the person.

That is INCREDIBLY broad and far-reaching, no?

Do you think it would survive a review by the SCOTUS?

Best,
Skunknuts

You know, I was just thinking, why hasn't the Tea Partiers stopped everything that SN has a problem with.

Hey SN, maybe you should try and congeal the TPM to a more cohesive bond?

No, you are just doing this to be snarky.