Teapartiers: What an outrage!

the question i have is.....why wasn't a law passed that sent ANYONE to jail for 1 year who HIRED an illegal??? no reprives, no exceptions. CEOs of companys, construction bosses, waste mangement managers, office cleaning company owners, farmers, ranchers, store owners, house cleaning business owners, home owners who hire for jobs around the house, etc.

stop the money, you stop the border crossings.

reply to post by jimmyx


Well first of, with the number of identity theft rings around, there are a great many illegals walking around with documents that seem to be authentic...so sending someone to jail for hiring someone that seems to have authentic documents is a wee bit extreme.

However, if you actually read the Arizona law, it provides for legal sanctions against anyone who knowingly employs illegal aliens. Granted from the reading I did, it seems to be centered on revoking a company's licenses which could effectively put them out of business.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Get real and go sell that to someone else. The Tea Group is not welcomed at ATS. We will not be your scapegoat or patsy. We are far too smart and intelligent to be brought down to that level of disgust and hatred.

Regardless of what your internet quiz from eHarmony tells you, you ain't that smart. Your posts prove the opposite, in fact.

If the tea group is made up of middle to upper middle class that lean toward conservative ideals I would need to suggest they are what they are without some overt or covert racism agenda.

"They are what they are"? What might that be, other than "middle to upper middle class that lean toward conservative ideals"?

The demographic of your average Tea Group is as follows :

Age - 40 - 65
Ethnicity - caucasian male
Average median income - $50,000 a year and up
Average residency - Suburbia
Political leaning - Ultra Right Wing Conservative

Show us the source for your assertions. Iow, where do you get your numbers from?

Those not allowed to participate in Tea Rallies :

Arabs, African Americans, Hispanics, Orientals, Islanders, left wing liberals, Democrats, Independents.

This is not only disinformation, it is an outright LIE!

I challenge you to provide one smidgen of proof that any of the listed groups are not allowed to participate in Tea Rallies.

Either put up or be known to all here as a LIAR.

I'm sick and tired of closet racists like you coming here and spreading your spoors of disinformation without being challenged.

So I'm the one who is going to challenge you. Prove your allegations or be known as a liar, here and now.

Viper,
The Tea Group has no direction but to consistantly push this Neo Conservatie agenda down everyone's throats and if anyone dares question it they are called a "Socialist", "Hitler Lover" and whatnot. Challenging the Tea Group nowadays is akin to challenging the 43 Dictatorship. Remember, "You're either with us or you're with the terrorists", anyone that still believes that is wrong, dead wrong.

Mish,
For the tea Group to be able to legitmatize themselves again they first must be willing to address the aspect that they have racists amongst their ranks. Until that is done I do not want to hear another thing regarding this. Dylan Ratigan and Ed Schultz has had to cut the Tea Group off because they were using their shows as an avenue to spew their agenda from and pay no attention to the host. When the group drowns out anyone who dares question them you now have a case of "It's either MY WAY or The HIGHWAY". When that is allowed to ferment and not get challenged that leaves the door open to a very dangerous situation.

For a group who is so bent on protecting laws they are surely using laws against the nation.

You will not see anyone from urban enviorments, housing projects, communial housing, public housing attend these as well as not seeing one soul who makes less then $25,000 a year attending.

A Tea Group with racial harmony, go sell that to someone else. The entire phrase makes no sense.

Jenna,
My point I'm trying to establish is I do agree with you that the entire group isn't racist but the fact that the National Group does not want to distance itself and rid itself of it's radical sect makes them culpable for anything that happens. The National Group needs to admit it has racists amongst it's ranks and then needs to expell them. The radical sect is the Tea Groups achilee's heel and someone with a nefarious and evil agenda can and will use that to kill this group.

If they are not a racist group then come out issuing a stance saying nothing more then "The National Tea Party does not support or condone racist ideas, racist ideaologies, and will do everything in our power to not only identify, but to move to expell said groups/persons from our ranks!". Would that be so hard? That is all I'm asking, Disassociate themselves and distance themselves from hate or else time and time again they will be consistantly called racists.

The "One bad apple will spoil the whole bunch" more then applies.

All,
Until the National Group distances itself from the racists then the group will continue to be called racists. You just do not have your groups members saying, "Nazi Obama" while failing to do anything about it.

Basically, if a member here used knowledge gained here to commit an attack the website here is culpable for the attack because this site failed to do something about the radical element. That's how the law works.

While attending these rallies, remember who you are fighting for. Drown out any racist chants and banter. Tell those radical elements that their opinion on that don't mean yap. Push back against these elements or else your group will be labelled a racist group. Tell those racists exactly where to shove it.

[edit on 9-5-2010 by TheImmaculateD1]

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
For the tea Group to be able to legitmatize themselves again they first must be willing to address the aspect that they have racists amongst their ranks.

And who de-legitimized them to begin with? The liberal media and their followers who refuse to believe it's not a racist movement. Doesn't matter what the tea parties or their supporters say, there will always be people like you who refuse to believe anything even when the proof is put right in front of them. Kinda like other posters have done in this very thread.

My point I'm trying to establish is I do agree with you that the entire group isn't racist but the fact that the National Group does not want to distance itself and rid itself of it's radical sect makes them culpable for anything that happens.

Finally you admit the entirety isn't racist.

Why should they waste time making statements to distance themselves from something when it's a tiny minority to begin with and won't do anything to prove to people the whole group isn't racist? Every tea party supporter in the country could issue a press release tomorrow saying that that they are not and do not condone racists or racist behaviors and you know what would happen? There would be posts here saying they all lied and that they only did it to cover for the racists in their midst. So why should the tea parties as a whole waste that time?

Disassociate themselves and distance themselves from hate or else time and time again they will be consistantly called racists.

I disagree. They were called racists before anyone even had a chance to do anything racist at any of the rallies. If you don't want to open your eyes and see the truth that's right in front of you, no amount of talking will prove to you otherwise.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by mishigas


I don't know where you are, but we are in the USA. And here, we adhere to a certain philosophy: An individual is INNOCENT until proven GUILTY.

What that means is, since it was YOU who make the accusation of the TPM being racist, it is up to YOU to prove their guilt. They do not have to prove their innocence.

The poster did not say that the tea party is racist. They said that there are racists in the tea party. Do you really still need proof that there are any racists that are also tea party members or are you asserting the idea that somehow this group of people is unlike any other sampling of Americans?

reply to post by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by K J Gunderson
The poster did not say that the tea party is racist. They said that there are racists in the tea party.

He did indeed say the group was racist. This is from his post on page 23:

The racial makeup of the group is pure white. No African Americans, Indians, Arabs, Hispanics, Orientals, Islanders in the group period. For any group to exist and not have people of culture and colour in their ranks tells me in volumes that the group is racist.

There it is. The entire statement is outrageous, as a matter of fact. Here is another outrageous statement from him:

Those not allowed to participate in Tea Rallies :

Arabs, African Americans, Hispanics, Orientals, Islanders, left wing liberals, Democrats, Independents.

I challenged him to provide one smidgen of proof that this is true. He avoided the challenge. But I was penalized 1,000 points by a Super-Mod for calling him out.

Apparently this type of false bs is the new 'fact' on ATS. Members can spread it without worry of being challenged.

Of course, it is your right to defend him when he spreads this disinfo. That could be part 2 of the new paradigm of truth on ATS. :shk:

reply to post by mishigas


LOL, apparently you are doing such a good job of making such a good point that has been removed too. What you had quoted said that the group had racists among it.

For the tea Group to be able to legitmatize themselves again they first must be willing to address the aspect that they have racists amongst their ranks

That was what I read you responding to as a claim the group was racist. Sorry if I read the words you chose to pick on, next time I will try to guess which words you really meant to take issue with.

[edit on 9-5-2010 by K J Gunderson]

Originally posted by Jenna

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
For the tea Group to be able to legitmatize themselves again they first must be willing to address the aspect that they have racists amongst their ranks.

And who de-legitimized them to begin with? The liberal media and their followers who refuse to believe it's not a racist movement. Doesn't matter what the tea parties or their supporters say, there will always be people like you who refuse to believe anything even when the proof is put right in front of them. Kinda like other posters have done in this very thread.

My point I'm trying to establish is I do agree with you that the entire group isn't racist but the fact that the National Group does not want to distance itself and rid itself of it's radical sect makes them culpable for anything that happens.

- Liberal media? What liberal media? None exists. It's either Neo Conservatism or it's the highway. CNN is right wing centre, Fox is far right wing, MSNBC is too conservative. The last true medium that was liberal was the now defunct Air America. Taken off the air because they talk yap on Neo Cons.

Finally you admit the entirety isn't racist.

Why should they waste time making statements to distance themselves from something when it's a tiny minority to begin with and won't do anything to prove to people the whole group isn't racist? Every tea party supporter in the country could issue a press release tomorrow saying that that they are not and do not condone racists or racist behaviors and you know what would happen? There would be posts here saying they all lied and that they only did it to cover for the racists in their midst. So why should the tea parties as a whole waste that time?

- The stance is simple, either disassociate themselves with the racists or else be called racists. What does no one seem to get? Failure to do anything about it speaks more then words or actions ever. If the KKK started to come to ATS in force and the Admin staff failed to extract them then this site is to be seen as a racists group gathering sector. Now do you get it? Nothing else matters but this. If by wasting their time means to get rid of the racist elements from its ranks then they truly and must be a wing of the KKK. No gray areas here just clearcut black and white. It's either expell the racist elements or be labeled as a racist. No third option.

Failure to even recognize or accept that there are racist amongst the group instantly decrees all who attend racists. Blind blanket coverage. Either come out against them or be labeled as one. Jenna, please believe that I am not calling nor am I incinuaiting that you are a racist because I am not. Logic and common sense needs to ferment.

Disassociate themselves and distance themselves from hate or else time and time again they will be consistantly called racists.

I disagree. They were called racists before anyone even had a chance to do anything racist at any of the rallies. If you don't want to open your eyes and see the truth that's right in front of you, no amount of talking will prove to you otherwise.

- The fact the group started in on the race topic makes them that. How members of the Group hailed racial slurs at Congresspeople. The fact speaks for themselves.

Answered in quote with the -.

[edit on 10-5-2010 by TheImmaculateD1]

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Liberal media? What liberal media? None exists. It's either Neo Conservatism or it's the highway. CNN is right wing centre, Fox is far right wing, MSNBC is too conservative. The last true medium that was liberal was the now defunct Air America. Taken off the air because they talk yap on Neo Cons.

Haven't watched much MSNBC or CNN lately I take it. They are not in any way conservative from what I've seen, nor do either of them qualify as right-wing anything. And yes, it was indeed CNN and MSNBC who started claiming the tea parties were just a bunch of racists and began the use of that deplorable euphemism to describe them.

The stance is simple, either disassociate themselves with the racists or else be called racists. What does no one seem to get?

I've told you repeatedly what I don't get. Would you call a crowd of hundreds of thousands of people murderers if there were one or two among them? Would you call that same crowd pedophiles if there were one or two among them? Logic would tell you that you wouldn't, you would reserve the label for the ones it actually fits. Yet you're trying to label everyone a racist instead of reserving it for the few who actually are. There's a disconnect in the logic here that I just can't follow.

Failure to even recognize or accept that there are racist amongst the group instantly decrees all who attend racists.

It has been recognized that there are some who attend the tea parties who are racist. No one has denied that. Anywhere you have a large group of people, there will be some who are. That's just statistics. Should we label the entire country as racists because we haven't expelled those who are from the country yet?

Jenna, please believe that I am not calling nor am I incinuaiting that you are a racist because I am not.

No worries. I know you're not.

The fact the group started in on the race topic makes them that. How members of the Group hailed racial slurs at Congresspeople. The fact speaks for themselves.

'The group' didn't start on race. A few idiots started on race. And it's never been definitively proven whether those racist slurs were yelled at the congressman or not. It's possible they were, but it's not been proven true or false yet. All we have is the word of one person that it happened. Hearsay is not taken as fact in any court I'm aware of.

Originally posted by Jenna

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Liberal media? What liberal media? None exists. It's either Neo Conservatism or it's the highway. CNN is right wing centre, Fox is far right wing, MSNBC is too conservative. The last true medium that was liberal was the now defunct Air America. Taken off the air because they talk yap on Neo Cons.

Haven't watched much MSNBC or CNN lately I take it. They are not in any way conservative from what I've seen, nor do either of them qualify as right-wing anything. And yes, it was indeed CNN and MSNBC who started claiming the tea parties were just a bunch of racists and began the use of that deplorable euphemism to describe them.

The stance is simple, either disassociate themselves with the racists or else be called racists. What does no one seem to get?

I've told you repeatedly what I don't get. Would you call a crowd of hundreds of thousands of people murderers if there were one or two among them? Would you call that same crowd pedophiles if there were one or two among them? Logic would tell you that you wouldn't, you would reserve the label for the ones it actually fits. Yet you're trying to label everyone a racist instead of reserving it for the few who actually are. There's a disconnect in the logic here that I just can't follow.

Failure to even recognize or accept that there are racist amongst the group instantly decrees all who attend racists.

It has been recognized that there are some who attend the tea parties who are racist. No one has denied that. Anywhere you have a large group of people, there will be some who are. That's just statistics. Should we label the entire country as racists because we haven't expelled those who are from the country yet?

Jenna, please believe that I am not calling nor am I incinuaiting that you are a racist because I am not.

No worries. I know you're not.

The fact the group started in on the race topic makes them that. How members of the Group hailed racial slurs at Congresspeople. The fact speaks for themselves.

'The group' didn't start on race. A few idiots started on race. And it's never been definitively proven whether those racist slurs were yelled at the congressman or not. It's possible they were, but it's not been proven true or false yet. All we have is the word of one person that it happened. Hearsay is not taken as fact in any court I'm aware of.

Courtesy of YouTube/Rep. Eric Ryan (D-CT) on the floor of the House :
www.youtube.com...

Courtesy of YouTube/ABC a slur aimed at Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA)
www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

How many times are people going to continually turn a blind eye to Tea Bagger Racists.

No dem planted them that is a lie.

The group is racists. Enough attempts to continually distract and attempts to deny the claimes levied. The fact remains that the select group is racist and by the national party refusal to do anything about it makes the National party racist. Plain and simple.

[edit on 15-5-2010 by TheImmaculateD1]

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


National Party? What national party?

Who are you talking about?

Do you think the TPM is a national party now?

Well, nice to see that there are three parties now, maybe you people stuck in the Dem/Repub paradigm will wake up.

Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

 

National Party? What national party?

Who are you talking about?

Do you think the TPM is a national party now?

Well, nice to see that there are three parties now, maybe you people stuck in the Dem/Repub paradigm will wake up.

Tea Party Patriots American Tea Party Movement
teapartypatriots.ning.com...

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1

Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

 

National Party? What national party?

Who are you talking about?

Do you think the TPM is a national party now?

Well, nice to see that there are three parties now, maybe you people stuck in the Dem/Repub paradigm will wake up.

Tea Party Patriots American Tea Party Movement
teapartypatriots.ning.com...

That is not a national party. Also, a few people do not represent an entire ideology of viewpoint, grasshopper.



[edit on 15-5-2010 by Stewie]

reply to post by skunknuts


How is asking for personal identification intruding? It's not like they stop every spanish person and go through all their stuff. And this bill is not unconstitutional because the constitution applies only to it's citizens. Why is it such a big deal that if they can't provide ANY documentation of citizenship, that further actions be taken. We are the only country that allows millions and millions of illeagal immagrants to invade our country. They are breaking our laws therefore are criminals and there's an uproar that a state is enforcing the law. It's not like any people who can prove citizenship are in trouble. If you're a citizen, then why sweat it, you should be able to provide some documentation.

Originally posted by marsvoltafan74
reply to post by skunknuts

 

How is asking for personal identification intruding?

They will not be looking for ID. In case you have not noticed but ID is not proof of citizenship and around here, neither is proof of citizenship. So it looks like they will have to do some digging.

It's not like they stop every spanish person and go through all their stuff. And this bill is not unconstitutional because the constitution applies only to it's citizens.

Right and this law applies to citizens.

Why is it such a big deal that if they can't provide ANY documentation of citizenship, that further actions be taken.

Nothing, that is not what the bill is about.

We are the only country that allows millions and millions of illeagal immagrants to invade our country.

Tell that to Iraq and Afghanistan. But seriously, this bill will not change that.

They are breaking our laws therefore are criminals and there's an uproar that a state is enforcing the law.

A new bill is not enforcement of the law, it is a NEW law. Apparently it is a new law you do not know much about as shown here. I am not knocking you for your lack of knowledge but to defend something you know so little about does not bode well for the argument.

It's not like any people who can prove citizenship are in trouble. If you're a citizen, then why sweat it, you should be able to provide some documentation.

As a citizen I have the right to go get Ice Cream without having to carry all of my personal proof of my citizenship with me. I also enjoy the right to go get ice cream without being stopped for no reason other than the suspicion I do not belong in the country. My constitution protects me from that. This bill defies that.

reply to post by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by marsvoltafan74
They are breaking our laws therefore are criminals and there's an uproar that a state is enforcing the law.

Originally posted by K J Gunderson
A new bill is not enforcement of the law, it is a NEW law. Apparently it is a new law you do not know much about as shown here. I am not knocking you for your lack of knowledge but to defend something you know so little about does not bode well for the argument.

And I am not knocking you for your lack of knowledge, but the AZ bill is identical to existing federal law. Read this short article titled Arizona Immigration Law Identical to Federal Laws Requiring Alien Documentation, Says Attorney. It's at

www.cnsnews.com...

It cites one of the authors of the AZ bill, so it is a reliable source.

by K J Gunderson
As a citizen I have the right to go get Ice Cream without having to carry all of my personal proof of my citizenship with me. I also enjoy the right to go get ice cream without being stopped for no reason other than the suspicion I do not belong in the country. My constitution protects me from that. This bill defies that.

Sounds like you're swallowing the disinfo that Obama is spreading, along with the ice cream. But drinking more of the kool-aid won't help.

Originally posted by mishigas

And I am not knocking you for your lack of knowledge, but the AZ bill is identical to existing federal law. Read this short article titled Arizona Immigration Law Identical to Federal Laws Requiring Alien Documentation, Says Attorney. It's at

www.cnsnews.com...

It cites one of the authors of the AZ bill, so it is a reliable source.

I could cite one of the authors of the bill and still make any argument I want. For someone talking about a lack of knowledge, this is pretty weak. Do you know what you are trying to get me to read? Someone with an agenda's OPINION of the law. How about you read the bill and explain to me how it is just the same old federal law but on the state level. You will find that the ACTUAL BILL and some lawyer's opinion of it differ.

If you cannot offer your own opinion based on the facts but must substitute what someone else thinks based on what they they read for you, then you have not got much chance making a cogent argument.

Sounds like you're swallowing the disinfo that Obama is spreading, along with the ice cream. But drinking more of the kool-aid won't help.

Because...........?

reply to post by K J Gunderson

I could cite one of the authors of the bill and still make any argument I want. For someone talking about a lack of knowledge, this is pretty weak. Do you know what you are trying to get me to read? Someone with an agenda's OPINION of the law. How about you read the bill and explain to me how it is just the same old federal law but on the state level. You will find that the ACTUAL BILL and some lawyer's opinion of it differ.

What I cited was a bit stronger than someone's opinion. It was a discussion of the design goals of the bill, by none other than the author.

And if he says

Kobach said criticism that the Arizona law will impose new requirements on non-citizens to carry documents proving their status is unfounded, given that every non-citizen in the United States has been required to carry such documents since Congress passed the Alien Registration Act in 1940.

“It has been a federal crime for aliens to fail to keep certain registration documents on their person,” Kobach said, adding that the Arizona law simply makes it illegal in Arizona to violate that federal law.

All the new bill does is make Arizona law mirror federal immigration law, Kobach said.

He said that any claims of an “equal protection violation” –- or racial profiling -– is also addressed in Arizona HB2162, which was signed into law last month by Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer.

well, thats' a good starting point, as far as I'm concerned.