Teapartiers: What an outrage!

Originally posted by johnny2127
Do you realize that what you are up in arms about is that people have to carry proof of citizenship? Carry a drivers license, won't have a problem.

I have asked before and never got an answer so let me ask again. Where on my driver's license does it prove my citizenship?

Let's do some comparing. People have to flash their IDs often to get stuff!

Let's see - Alcohol and cigarettes. I don't see the majority complaining about people having to flash their ID's to prove their age because someone profiles you and thinks you're not "Old enough" looking.

It's a necessity to have these ID checks for that don't you think? Otherwise, our streets would be overrun with drunken teens (even more so).

What about strip clubs? Gotta be old enough and flash that ID.

I believe this concept carries through. TOO Bad to you look too young and have to show your ID (happens with asians A LOT). But does it kill you? Sure as hell it doesn't, but it does prevent a lot of things from happening.

Surely, people will be racially profiled and be asked to show their ID. Big whoop, if you're sick about it, BLAME ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO CAME ILLEGALLY, not the people trying to get rid of the problem. If you're a citizen and have your ID you'll be FINE. Stop getting butt hurt.

Profiling happens in all walks of life. People will judge you on how you look and act based on that judgment. All that's happening here is if you happen to act/look like an illegal, you're going to get checked. All is good if you're a citizen! If you're not, see you later.

If this measure passes, I definitely believe it will help the illegal immigration problem. Once illegals learn they have to show their IDs based on a profile check it's going to be harder for them to get around the system.

Of course, more effective border control would be great, too bad people can be easily bribed and fooled.

I know you guys are trying to stick to a beautifully written constitution written 200 years ago, but as with everything, there are holes and flaws that could be patched up and made better. I love the rights I have here, but get this.

I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE MY RIGHT of NOT HAVING TO BE STEREOTYPED (It happens all the time so stop complaining) to make sure our tax dollars are going where they're supposed to go. BACK TO US.

Originally posted by johnny2127
Do you realize that what you are up in arms about is that people have to carry proof of citizenship?

I posted the link a few pages back to the requirements to get a drivers license. There are still states that don't check legal US citizenship when handing them out. A driver's license at this point is not a definitive answer on whether someone is here legally or not.

People are being MURDERED and KIDNAPPED in Arizona by illegals daily. If the Federal Govt enforced their own laws, this wouldn't be an issue.

I'm aware of that. Signing a bill into law that leads to harrassment of legal US citizens because they're Hispanic is not the way to combat that.

But I'll tell one thing that is 100% true, it is a constitutional right for people and states to defend themselves from harm. The Federal Govt won't enforce their own laws, so AZ has to do something.

Agreed. Trampling on even more US citizen's rights is not the path to take though. Do you even realize what you're saying? Their rights are being trampled so you want more of their rights trampled to try to fix the rights that were being trampled to begin with. It makes no sense.

The solution has many of you up in arms to defend these criminals.

Where have I defended illegal immigrants? Show me one post where I defended them. Otherwise, stop with the accusations if you don't mind.

I am in AZ quite a bit, and if a police officer asked me for proof of citizenship would I feel like my rights were violated? Hell no. Know who would? The illegals here on a freeride in the US and the bleeding heart liberals that care more about the so called 'rights' of illegals than law abiding, tax paying US citizens.

I am so quoting you next time someone calls me a neo-con.

Seriously though, you know who will feel like their rights are being violated? The legal US citizens who just happen to be Hispanic who end up getting detained because some jacktard thinks they might be here illegally. You just don't get it. It's their rights I'm standing up for here, not the illegals. Just because they are physically similar to the people sneaking across the border and murdering people doesn't make it right for their rights to be violated just so you can sleep at night thinking something's finally being done about illegal immigration.

I don't care where you are from. If you are here illegally, you deserve to be deported. I don't care if thats Europe, Russia, Mexica, Canada, Central America, South America, Asia, etc....

Again, I agree with you on this. You're just completely missing my point.

reply to post by Afterall


When I got my CA ID, I had to provide a SSN and a birth certificate or SSN and a passport. When I got my CA DL a few years later, I had to provide either a birth certificate and SSN or a valid CA ID and SSN or a passport and SSN. Either way, I had to prove I was a citizen of the USA.

Originally posted by digifanatic
When I got my CA ID, I had to provide a SSN and a birth certificate or SSN and a passport. When I got my CA DL a few years later, I had to provide either a birth certificate and SSN or a valid CA ID and SSN or a passport and SSN. Either way, I had to prove I was a citizen of the USA.

All of which are easy to forge if you know how to do it. Granted it's getting tougher, but again as I pointed out a few pages back there are still states that don't check legal citizenship when issuing driver's licenses.

Originally posted by Jenna
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

*sigh*

Think what you like. I wasn't given complete information and based my response on what I was given like any sane rational person would.

That my friend, is what jumping to conclusions is.

Excuse me for not being a mind-reader and knowing exactly what he was talking about when I'd never even heard about that happening until about 5 minutes ago.

Your first wrong was making up a story to defend it if you had no idea what was being said.

Your second sin was to accuse me of jumping to conclusions when, as you just admitted, that is exactly what you did and not at all what I did.

You want to try and twist it into me being hypocritical, have at it because I really don't care and it's not worth wasting my time when it's blatantly obvious that his post was meant to intentionally bait me into saying what they did was ok before telling me what exactly it was that happened. Yeah, I fell for it. Bad Jenna. I'll put myself in the corner now.

Wow, that post was specifically designed to trick you into making something up to defend something you knew nothing about and then accuse me of doing that exact thing? Pretty clever.

We live in America not Nazi Germany, No one should be forced to show papers to prove they are a citizen. Applying for a job or something along those lines and having to show paper work is perfectly acceptable, at least to me that is. However people assume all illegals are Mexican, so how most cops go about this? racial profiling, to say any different is to be lying to yourself. Police are given quotas to reach on a number of tickets to issue each month, and they will pull you over for bull# excuses such as "your license plate light is out(when it isn't)" or "You were speeding" going maybe 2 MPH over the limit. They purposely harass honest citizens for nothing more than to reach a quota and they seem to forget we pay their salaries, they are here to serve and protect not to harass, but I'm getting way off topic here. I was born and raised in America, and if anyone EVER stopped me on the street and asked me to show papers to prove I'm a citizen, I would most likely tell them to go to hell. America is the land of the free, not the land of police and state harassment.

Originally posted by digifanatic
reply to post by Afterall

 

When I got my CA ID, I had to provide a SSN and a birth certificate or SSN and a passport. When I got my CA DL a few years later, I had to provide either a birth certificate and SSN or a valid CA ID and SSN or a passport and SSN. Either way, I had to prove I was a citizen of the USA.

So you are trying to tell me that non-citizens such as people here on work visas can not get a legal US driver's license? I am fairly certain that Jenna has already pointed out that non-citizens can get a driver's license. Do you have any proof otherwise?

reply to post by VintageEnvy

Arizona has been passing some weird things lately, I don't know whats going on down there all of a sudden but I'm staying away.

I was just gonna say the same thing.

Originally posted by Jenna


I am so quoting you next time someone calls me a neo-con.

Seriously though, you know who will feel like their rights are being violated? The legal US citizens who just happen to be Hispanic who end up getting detained because some jacktard thinks they might be here illegally. You just don't get it. It's their rights I'm standing up for here, not the illegals. Just because they are physically similar to the people sneaking across the border and murdering people doesn't make it right for their rights to be violated just so you can sleep at night thinking something's finally being done about illegal immigration.

Oh I get your points. But you have chosen to view this as US citizens rights being violated, while I view is as AZ being forced to deal with illegal immigration since the Federal Govt won't. But you speak of hispanics here legally being the ones that would be upset, and I would beg to differ. I have many legal hispanic friends, and they are huge supporters of this. HUGE. They are more anti-illegals than most people I know. Know why? They went the legal route, pay their taxes, contribute to society, and because of a group of criminals, they are looked down on or denigrated by others. They don't blame the people that have problems with illegals and want to protect themselves and the US borders. They blame their fellow hispanics that chose to go to illegal route into the US and those that commit the violent crimes.

Again, for someone to show proof of citizenship is reasonable to me. They don't detain then ask. They ask and then if something is fishy they detain. So let me ask you, which violated rights are more severe: A) illegals murdering or kidnapping, sucking taxpayer dollars out of social programs; or B) An occasional US citizen being inconvenienced to show an ID

Originally posted by NightGypsy
reply to post by VintageEnvy

 

Arizona has been passing some weird things lately, I don't know whats going on down there all of a sudden but I'm staying away.

I was just gonna say the same thing.

I was going to say the exact opposite. Hell, they are going to back to the Constitution and enforcing our borders. Looking good!

Originally posted by Afterall

Originally posted by digifanatic
reply to post by Afterall

 

So you are trying to tell me that non-citizens such as people here on work visas can not get a legal US driver's license? I am fairly certain that Jenna has already pointed out that non-citizens can get a driver's license. Do you have any proof otherwise?

I was actually just answering a question by Afterall. I did not read through the entire thread. I don't know the laws of all 50 states regarding DL issuance. Sure it's easy to fake a license, SSN, or passport if you know where to go, but it's easy for authorities to verify the authenticity of those documents by running your name through a database. If you get a hit, you're probably not illegal.

If you have a visa, then you're here legally and good for you.

Originally posted by johnny2127
Again, for someone to show proof of citizenship is reasonable to me. They don't detain then ask. They ask and then if something is fishy they detain. So let me ask you, which violated rights are more severe: A) illegals murdering or kidnapping, sucking taxpayer dollars out of social programs; or B) An occasional US citizen being inconvenienced to show an ID

Mind if I ask how many murders and kidnappings are commited by illegals?

Just curious what the stats are on that.

Originally posted by digifanatic
I was actually just answering a question by Afterall.

I am Afterall and you did not actually answer the question I asked. What I asked was where on the license does it prove citizenship?

I did not read through the entire thread. I don't know the laws of all 50 states regarding DL issuance. Sure it's easy to fake a license, SSN, or passport if you know where to go, but it's easy for authorities to verify the authenticity of those documents by running your name through a database. If you get a hit, you're probably not illegal.

If you have a visa, then you're here legally and good for you.

I was not talking about being here legally or not, I was talking about being a citizen and obtaining a license. Have a visa, get a license- license proof you are a citizen - no.

Down with big government!

Now show me your papers.

Originally posted by johnny2127
But you speak of hispanics here legally being the ones that would be upset, and I would beg to differ. I have many legal hispanic friends, and they are huge supporters of this.

Til they get harassed about proving they're citizens, then they'll sing a different tune. That's how it works. People don't care about rights getting violated unless it's their own rights.

Again, for someone to show proof of citizenship is reasonable to me. They don't detain then ask. They ask and then if something is fishy they detain.

How long do you think that'll last before it turns into "Hey, that guy's Hispanic and he's loitering. Bet he's illegal." "Well that woman over there is Hispanic and she sure isn't speaking English, I bet she's illegal too." This bill is wide open to abuse, and that to me is completely unacceptable.

So let me ask you, which violated rights are more severe: A) illegals murdering or kidnapping, sucking taxpayer dollars out of social programs; or B) An occasional US citizen being inconvenienced to show an ID

Inconvenienced? Citizen's getting their rights trampled is an inconvenience?

reply to post by endisnighe


I agree. I wasn't going to go there a few years ago because I don't care for heat like they have, but I think I can deal with the heat if it means supporting a constitutionalist government.

Originally posted by Afterall

Originally posted by digifanatic
reply to post by Afterall

 

When I got my CA ID, I had to provide a SSN and a birth certificate or SSN and a passport. When I got my CA DL a few years later, I had to provide either a birth certificate and SSN or a valid CA ID and SSN or a passport and SSN. Either way, I had to prove I was a citizen of the USA.

So you are trying to tell me that non-citizens such as people here on work visas can not get a legal US driver's license? I am fairly certain that Jenna has already pointed out that non-citizens can get a driver's license. Do you have any proof otherwise?

Well since we are talking about Arizona, why don't we look at their license requirements. Yep, an AZ license verifies that you are in the US legally, either as a resident or on a visa.

AZ Dept of Licensing

There are 5 states in the US that do not verify that you are in the US legally: Hawaii, Illinois, New Mexico, Utah and Washington. With a license from any of those states, your name can be checked with the national database and lawful status verified. Again, all very very easy.

reply to post by johnny2127


And if you present with a license from the above listed you will most likely have to show other certification if you were going to be in Arizona and are part of a LEGAL traffic stop.

If you are in the state where they allow ILLEGALS to get licensing and do not come into Arizona there would be no reason to deport you. Though I do hope for this bill to looked upon by the other 49 states and for Obama's sake all 57 states.

You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed to you. Do you understand these rights as they have been read to you?

Turn around and place your hands behind your back.

It's funny Arizona among a few other states [Texas, New Mexico, and California] have added the following sentence.

If you are not a United States citizen, you may contact your country's consulate prior to any questioning


I dunno. I've been on the fence on this issue for a while. I can understand and agree with both sides valid and MATURE arguments, pro and con.

I'll exercise my RIGHT to remain Silent.


[edit on 21-4-2010 by SLAYER69]