New ancient alien series on the History channel tonight..Why now?

reply to post by TheIrvy

Structures like the pyramids had practical purposes for them, like power generation, mining complexes, airports, etc

Most pyramids, as far as we can tell, had religious significance or were testaments to the power of the ruling Elite. None of them generate power, I don't think I can remember hearing about a mining pyramid and no pyramid could be useful as an airport. None of what you just said there makes any sense.

As for the art, I'd like you to open this to interpretation. This was painted in the 15th century

Looks like Jesus and Elijah (or is that God the Father?) are holding scepters and looking in on some people from Heaven. Doesn't look like there is anything involving UFOs or aliens going on anywhere in that painting unless you count Jesus as an alien. The only thing I've ever seen that truly perplexed me was The Crucifixion, a 14th century fresco:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e11b8d18f533.jpg[/atsimg]

Even these however, if you look closely, appear to be personifications of the sun and the moon and the occupants appear human not alien.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a2798f043f34.jpg[/atsimg]

All I'm saying is that it is sheer lunacy to disgregard this theory, because the simple fact is, it makes sense

I don't disregard it, I think its a very interesting theory however I don't think its lunacy if someone else does disregard it. Even if we stretch what we know about the past to fit the theory and assume that everything we don't understand about the past can be explained by aliens that doesn't amount to evidence or proof that aliens were involved, it just means our imaginations are working. Until we find evidence there's no reason to believe it and these History Channel shows always present the same inconclusive speculation.

And yet the simple fact is, it did happen. Completely separate from our ability to understand it or explain it, life is teeming across this planet. Cohesive, ordered, life. We have mammals, reptiles, birds, insects, aquatic life, all with 2 eyes, a mouth, etc. All showing marked similarites despite their varied and often exotic differences.

Clearly, our inability to understand it has zero effect on the simple fact that it did happen, in wild and unbelievable variations. If all of this is unique, and only happened here, and led to consciousness, airplanes, mobile phones and toaster pockets, then there must be a God floating on a cloud right above Earth, and the entire universe revolves around this planet as the sole place in the vastness of the universe where life sprung up like an abberant little experiment.

Logic is a method of reasoning, not the compuntion to grasp to "our" facts and what we can and cannot prove. Logic is taking all the pieces of a puzzle and working out what fits and what does not fit. The inability to imagine what you cannot prove? That's ignorance.

The universe is not limited to your lack of imagination.

Originally posted by TheIrvy
And yet the simple fact is, it did happen.

Life happened once that we know of. On one planet. But we don't know how it all started. We have a theory as to how it evolved into a variety of forms. But as for that one, tiny little bug that got it all started, we don't know how that happened.

There's a blue marble in my pocket. It has a small chip in it. I don't know how it got a chip in it. Should I assume that every blue marble that I see from now on or that I have in my pocket will have a chip in it just like mine?

It might. But "it might" is a long, long way from "it will."

[edit on 21-4-2010 by Blue Shift]

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull

Structures like the pyramids had practical purposes for them, like power generation, mining complexes, airports, etc

Most pyramids, as far as we can tell, had religious significance or were testaments to the power of the ruling Elite. None of them generate power, I don't think I can remember hearing about a mining pyramid and no pyramid could be useful as an airport. None of what you just said there makes any sense.

My apologies, sometimes my fingers can't keep up with my brain. I should have said the pyramids, and structures like them. There is a huge complex in Mexico with rows of what look like pyramids with their tops missing (kind of like the illumati pyramid but without the eye capstone), with steps coming down from them. There are also vast mining complexes, furnaces and such like all around the world. As far as pyramids go, the sheer number of pyramids that are being discovered all around the world suggests a common design source. There is obviously a purpose to pyramid building that escapes us in our modern knowledge. Maybe because they're not ours to have learnt from?

As for the art, I'd like you to open this to interpretation. This was painted in the 15th century

Looks like Jesus and Elijah (or is that God the Father?) are holding scepters and looking in on some people from Heaven. Doesn't look like there is anything involving UFOs or aliens going on anywhere in that painting unless you count Jesus as an alien.

Then you choose to ignore the obvious similarities between the "sceptors" they're holding and early satellites, most notably the Sputnik. Try sticking your fingers in your ears and singing, I always find that helps when I'm trying to ignore what's right in front of my face.

The only thing I've ever seen that truly perplexed me was The Crucifixion, a 14th century fresco:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e11b8d18f533.jpg[/atsimg]

Even these however, if you look closely, appear to be personifications of the sun and the moon and the occupants appear human not alien.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a2798f043f34.jpg[/atsimg]

And you'll find similar examples, from different cultures, all around the world and from every period in time. Since you're all about the proof, please provide me with proof that these are depictions of the sun and moon, and not what they appear to be, a depiction of a human(oid) in a flying craft.

I do not believe that it's a logical step to assume "aliens". I prefer to take the smaller step that clearly a civilisation far in advance of our own was involved. I fully accept that civilisation may well be from Earth, but lost in the annals of time. We may just be picking up their left overs, inheriting the Earth after they were finished with it. To say it must be aliens is ruling out too many other possibilities. However, if it was us that built those structures, then clearly there is a gap in our memories that cannot be accounted for, and it leaves everything that is taught about humanity's history as worthless nonsense, fairy tales to make us feel like we know something when we clearly do not.

Originally posted by Blue Shift

Originally posted by TheIrvy
And yet the simple fact is, it did happen.

Life happened once that we know of. On one planet. But we don't know how it all started. We have a theory as to how it evolved into a variety of forms. But as for that one, tiny little bug that got it all started, we don't know how that happened.

There's a blue marble in my pocket. It has a small chip in it. I don't know how it got a chip in it. Should I assume that every blue marble that I see from now on or that I have in my pocket will have a chip in it just like mine?

It might. But "it might" is a long, long way from "it will."

[edit on 21-4-2010 by Blue Shift]

Then clearly, nothing we know has any value, any cohesive theory is of far greater value than "we don't know". Again, you're assigning our knowledge, our proof as a prerequisite for logic. I am not.

You have a blue marble in your pocket. Should you assume that it is the only blue marble in existence until you see another one and can prove that blue marbles exist plurally? Or can you look at your blue marble and be assured that where there's a blue marble, there's bound to be other marbles?

See, I managed to avoid any humour about you having lost the rest of your marbles

reply to post by TheIrvy

As far as pyramids go, the sheer number of pyramids that are being discovered all around the world suggests a common design source

Its a pretty common building shape. You know the wheel also emerged in multiple places, as did many other technologies, that doesn't mean we need aliens to explain it. There are only so many shapes that are structurally sound.

Then you choose to ignore the obvious similarities between the "sceptors" they're holding and early satellites, most notably the Sputnik.

How would that make any sense? Why would Jesus be messing with a Satellite while sitting on a cloud? Shouldn't he be in space wearing a space suit? Satellites like that aren't normally in the middle of cloud cover are they? They also aren't controlled manually by robed figures with scepters. The scepters do not appear to be attached to the sphere in the painting. Why would an advanced alien space satellite resemble a primitive one like sputnik? Your theory on this makes no sense whatsoever.

Since you're all about the proof, please provide me with proof that these are depictions of the sun and moon, and not what they appear to be

Because they do appear to be the sun and moon. The first one is spherical and covered in fire like the sun, the second is pale and has a crescent moon shaped body and what look like moon beams shooting out the back. It was common to personify the sun, or even worship it and this lived on past the polytheistic faiths that started the tradition. We've all heard of the man in the moon. Like I said these images are definitely intriguing it is not outside the realm of extreme possibility that UFOs have visited Earth in the past but again since there is no direct evidence of it there's no reason to believe it fully.

clearly a civilisation far in advance of our own was involved

I don't think so. I think that these ancient civilizations were different then us and had different values. For instance they put a lot of value into astrology and astronomy which is why some sites appear to be aligned to stars or constellations and why so many gods and goddesses are personified as living in the heavens and are associated with celestial bodies. They may have been more advanced in some building techniques but we cannot assume that their building methods involved high technology, just ingenuity and man power the likes of which we can scarcely imagine

There is a gap in our memories, we've only had written language for about 10,000 years. We've forgotten our origins which is why there are so many legends myths and theories about where we came from. So far only one, evolution, has the evidence to back it up. And so far only gradual increase in knowledge and human ingenuity can explain how we went from scattered hunter gatherers to building these impressive monuments. Until further evidence supports the alien astronaut theory there's no real reason to believe it though there is nothing wrong with keeping an eye on it to see if anything new is discovered to support it.

So "because it looks like it" is evidence enough for your arguement, but not for any arguement that disagrees with you? Goodbye, end of discussion.

If someone walked up to you and offered irrefutable evidence of alien existence and would give you all the keys to all the doors would you REALY want to know?

reply to post by TheIrvy


I never said I was presenting evidence.

You asked for evidence and no I don't have any direct proof that the 14th century fresco is depicting the sun and the moon but given that the objects in the sky look like the sun and the moon I think its fair to assume that's what they are. I don't rule out the possibility that the artist witnessed a UFO, comet or meteor and added that into his depictions.

I'm not an expert in 14th century fresco but I do know that the sun and moon are often personified as being deities or people both in legends and in art work.

It is more likely that these are personifications of known celestial objects and that the artist has taken some religious creative license in depicting them.

Originally posted by Matrix Rising
Great show!!

A Freethinker will love this show.

A closed minded skeptic will not like it at all.

They asked a lot of thought provoking questions.
snip

You need a mind/brain tune up! A freethinker? What is that? Not all skeptics are close-minded, it depends upon the topic. Not one single thought-provoking question was asked. They stated b.s. after b.s. The personalities one saw were just b.s.'ers who couldn't think their way out of a wet napkin. The program was aimed at those who have no concept of logic, common sense, and reason.

reply to post by The Shrike


Your post is the perfect example of a closed minded skeptic.

Anyone who watched the show with an open mind would have to say they asked question and gave evidence that can't be explained and that needs to be explored.

You have zero counter evidence, so you appeal to absurdity. All you have is your opinion. It's sad when closed minded skeptics can't even acknowledge the intelligence of those they oppose.

I debate people all the time about things like parallel universes or extra dimensions. We hold opposing views and I respect their intelligence.

When it comes to things like ufology and the paranormal, the skeptic has no counter evidence, so they try to belittle those who are making the claim. When respected astronaut Edgar Mitchell made his feelings known about this subject, they called him a senile old man.

Just because you don't agree with them, doesn't mean there not using reason and logic. This shows the weakness of the closed minded skeptic. They have no counter evidence, so they have to try and belittle the freethinker's who are presenting the evidence.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


You said:

It is more likely that these are personifications of known celestial objects and that the artist has taken some religious creative license in depicting them.

Why is it more likely? Based on what?

We should see U.F.O.'s in ancient artwork. Skeptics say U.F.O.'s have a natural explanation, if that's the case why wouldn't the ancients see the same U.F.O.'s that we see and why wouldn't they record what they saw in paintings?

These are U.F.O.'s and it supports the ancient alien theory.

I also think some of these painters painted U.F.O.'s without even realizing what they were painting. They were just trying to capture religious imagery from the Bible. I think the Bible is full of extraterrestrial visitations. The painters captured this without even knowing it. They were just trying to capture images that they were reading about in ancient text.

www.ufoartwork.com...
www.bibleufo.com...

Originally posted by Matrix Rising
Anyone who watched the show with an open mind would have to say they asked question and gave evidence that can't be explained and that needs to be explored.

This is true, for people that are ignorant of the facts.

The program suspiciously excluded factual information that would tend to invalidate the ridiculous speculations they framed as questions.

For example, they spent 15 minutes on Vimanas, citing the Vimanika Shastra as a source.

They neglected to tell you that this book was written in the 20th century.

See what I mean?

Harte

Originally posted by The Shrike

Originally posted by Matrix Rising
Great show!!

A Freethinker will love this show.

A closed minded skeptic will not like it at all.

They asked a lot of thought provoking questions.
snip

You need a mind/brain tune up! A freethinker? What is that? Not all skeptics are close-minded, it depends upon the topic. Not one single thought-provoking question was asked. They stated b.s. after b.s. The personalities one saw were just b.s.'ers who couldn't think their way out of a wet napkin. The program was aimed at those who have no concept of logic, common sense, and reason.

Well you certainly told us, didn't you? lol...

You say that not one single thought provoking questio was asked. However, I beg to differ. One example touched upon in the show were the Megalithic stones cut to such precision that it could not be duplicated today w/out the use of computers and high-tech cutting machines, the most intriguing of which can be found at the Puma-Punku ruins in Bolivia. Not only are these stones cut to precision they were mass produced as modular building blocks. Anyone who has cut stones will tell you that w/out the use of modern diamond cutting tools the task would be next to impossible to produce just one block.

Puma-Punku building blocks Wiki Image

Granted, as one poster responded earlier, there may have been a lot of BS in the program but that doesn't mean we're eating it all. There were some very interesting ideas presented and those ideas were not out of the realm of possibilty.

When someone who has years of experience in the construction industry states that modern tools and technologies would have an extremely difficult time reproducing the same results that he ancients achieved, you have to take that into consideration.

I'll have to admit that I'm skeptical w/regards to the claim that alien technologies were employed but I also have to admit that modern archeological explanations fall short when considering the construction of Meaglithic sites. One of the statements made in the program that I found inciteful was that the ancients built these sites because it "was easy". I would have a tendancy to agree with that statement....

Maybe you're not as open minded as you would like to believe.....

i am very interested in the segment that described how it seemed they the ancient people of earth may have been trying to duplicate what they observed and how the great pyramid was not built in the same fashion and with the aartistry of the later.
i am wondering if there was a higher race be it from earth or bot that other cultures were trying to replicate.
just like they showed the islanders from ww2 building the wooden plane of course it didnt fly however they got the shape and look maybe all the artifacts and monuments are replicas of actual working technology early people observed.?

I think it's important to remember that modern humans left Africa about 145,000 years ago. Our knowledge of human history only dates back about 10,000 yrs and there are many gaps in that knowledge. Are we so arrogant that we discount the notion that the ancients had technolgies similar to our own? Perhaps ancient technologies were based upon a different form of energy that is yet unknown to us. (consider Torsion wave theory, spin physics and spherical wave forms) Our technologies are based upon the flow of Electrons, maybe ancient technologies were based upon an understanding of physics that is different from our own.

A free thinker is constantly exploring new ideas and view points. It's important to consider all the possibilties until they are disproven outright....

Keep an open mind, but don't let your brain fall out. Right?

I'm not keen on dismissing the entire content of the program all together, I choose to be more selective.



edit to correct typos...

[edit on 22-4-2010 by Anamnesis]

Originally posted by Anamnesis
You say that not one single thought provoking questio was asked. However, I beg to differ. One example touched upon in the show were the Megalithic stones cut to such precision that it could not be duplicated today w/out the use of computers and high-tech cutting machines, the most intriguing of which can be found at the Puma-Punku ruins in Bolivia. Not only are these stones cut to precision they were mass produced as modular building blocks. Anyone who has cut stones will tell you that w/out the use of modern diamond cutting tools the task would be next to impossible to produce just one block.

Again suspiciously, the program failed to inform viewers that close inspection of the blocks at Puma Punka reveals chisel marks in the cuts.

See what I mean?

Harte

Originally posted by TheIrvy
And you'll find similar examples, from different cultures, all around the world and from every period in time. Since you're all about the proof, please provide me with proof that these are depictions of the sun and moon, and not what they appear to be, a depiction of a human(oid) in a flying craft.

The sun and moon as witnesses to the Crucifixion are a common motif in Renaissance art.. It was also common to give these celestial objects a human appearance.

Originally posted by The Shrike

Originally posted by Matrix Rising
Great show!!

A Freethinker will love this show.

A closed minded skeptic will not like it at all.

They asked a lot of thought provoking questions.
snip

You need a mind/brain tune up! A freethinker? What is that? Not all skeptics are close-minded, it depends upon the topic...

Exactly...

To say this show is for freethinkers is a very interesting way to put it. The series is not an objective look at the question nor the facts. It has a very clear bias and it built on confirming that bias, not examining the facts. Any freethinker watching the show would have to question why it favors only those "experts" who confirm the show's bias, while mentioning then dismissing modern archaeological views in the same breath.

By the by, you would do well to ignore MatrixRising. She operates off a script and cannot deviate from it; she will repeat the same lines and lies over and over, and ignore any questions her script cannot answer. It is useless to discuss anything with someone who so well defines the term "closed-minded". She is little more than an automaton.

[edit on 22-4-2010 by DoomsdayRex]

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


do you not find it odd how our history books have drawn conclusions about for example ancient egypts pyramids
how do we know the pyramids were built as tooms?
how do we know they used what we perceive as conventional methods to move he stones?
rather then an undiscovered tech.
it seems to me as i stated before we spend more time trying to disprove the obvious and accept these concepts that would rely on nothing short of a miracle to produce these giants.?? more then once mind you .
i would stand a better chance trying to single handedly build the empire state building it would seem.????