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"Human Farming:" The Story of Your Enslavement

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posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 01:12 AM
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reply to post by ghostsoldier
 



Take your time brother, I am so busy lately I can only find time to post brief, usually smarmy replies these days. I realize that you and I agree on more than might appear to most, and the differences in our understanding of market economies is subtle, which is why I believe you and provide a sort of harmony while debating the issues. We're sort of like the Everly Brothers, or Eagles of market economy.


[edit on 22-4-2010 by Jean Paul Zodeaux]




posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 01:33 AM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux

Originally posted by Kaytagg
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


Why do you say corporations are antithetical to capitalism?


There are three basic tenets to capitalism:

1.) A free and unregulated marketplace.

2.) Massive Competition.

3.) A standard of currency backed by intrinsic wealth so that all may agree upon its value.

Not one of these tenets are a part of today's market system, and corporations love regulation as it limits competition, and corporations hate competition. The fiat money in which the U.S. relies upon will be its ultimate downfall, and fiat money is valueless money.




"Competition is a sin"


~John D. Rockefeller~


There is competition, already. The reason walmart has moved in to virtually every town in the United States (as well as quashed competition) is because they out-compete the competition. If you think you can do better, you're welcome to try.. Although, you probably wont beat them, because they actually do a pretty good job at providing efficient services. Part of that efficiency comes from paying their work force dick wages, though. That's capitalism for ya, though.

There's no such thing as "intrinsic wealth." Even gold fluctuates in value. In fact, if you had bought gold at its 1980 peak, you'd still be waiting to break even on your investment.

Ultimately we do have currencies with a value that is determined by the market. You can bid up or bid down the price of the dollar on the Forex, right now, if you like. What could be more capitalist than that?



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 01:39 AM
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There is competition, and there is competitive-cooperation.

Really, the major problem I have with capitalism, is that it creates consumers. Thats not the problem in of itself, it is the lack of conscious and educated decisions of product purchasing that is the problem.

How many of us use recycled toilet-paper?

#-all, and the predominant cause is pricing and lack of investment. Should it really be left up to the consumer to make the switch? Yes and No.

I believe that their should be laws that all toilet-paper should be made from recycled paper. But alot of people would consider that communism. And would rather wait for the ever-lagging free-market response to catch up to contemporary philosophical understandings about the world we live in.

I'd rather a world-wide roll out of Toilet-Paper Production Standards, Ethics & Protocol mandated by the UN or atleast individual nation states and penalties for non-compliance.

Bear in mind this is just an example.

Sorry to troll/hijack this thread. I will stop now.

PS. Its only a dollar or two more.


ETA: A Freemason once told me: "Back in the day and ounce of gold was pressed into a 20-Dollar gold coin, and with that you could by a fancy three-piece suit, Now, 20 dollars wont even buy you a belt, but and ounce of gold is still worth enough to buy a decent three-piece suit."

Food for thought.

[edit on 22/4/10 by ghostsoldier]



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 01:45 AM
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reply to post by Kaytagg
 


Listen, you can ignore my simple descriptions of the tenets of capitalism if you want, just so you can continue to equate capitalism with corporatism, but you are no capitalist. I just read today in another thread where you declared that the worker should own the factories they work in, which neither Ghost or I disagree with, but here's the difference, I think people should pool their resources and build their factories, not sit around and wait for someone to give it to them.



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 01:51 AM
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reply to post by ghostsoldier
 


capitalism is fine and dandy when the consumers (who participate in the capitalist system) are rational and educated.

But they are not rational and educated... so the "solutions" the "free market" provides don't make a whole hell of a lot of sense; why should they? They were determined by irrational and uneducated consumers, who are ultimately responsible for what the manufacturer sells.


Same is true of elections -- and people still don't understand this concept, because they're too dumb to realize they're irrational and uneducated (and being manipulated.. cough fox news viewers cough). They do understand pain, though, which is a pity, because they ultimately bring it on themselves.

You gotta feel bad for these people.. I believe you need systems in place to protect them (from themselves).



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 01:58 AM
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reply to post by ghostsoldier
 





Really, the major problem I have with capitalism, is that it creates consumers. Thats not the problem in of itself, it is the lack of conscious and educated decisions of product purchasing that is the problem.


Two words my friend...Caveat Emptor! If this simple concept of let the buyer beware was more prominent today, I do believe you would see a more conscious consumer. Instead, consumers naively believe they are protected by regulations and have become reckless in their consumerism.




How many of us use recycled toilet-paper?


Ewwww!




I believe that their should be laws that all toilet-paper should be made from recycled paper.


Ohhhhhh! Okay, that's a lot more palatable.




But alot of people would consider that communism. And would rather wait for the ever-lagging free-market response to catch up to contemporary philosophical understandings about the world we live in.


Marketplaces know no philosophy, and the cost/benefit ratio will always apply regardless of what market system is used. Adam Smith wasn't being naive when he made reference to that unseen hand guiding a greater good, he understood that markets are not so malleable that they can be forced to adhere to any particular philosophy and suggested that leaving each person alone to freely contract as they see fit, would transcend philosophies, and move us closer to that which all things aim...the greatest good.




I'd rather a world-wide roll out of Toilet-Paper Production Standards, Ethics & Protocol mandated by the UN or atleast individual nation states and penalties for non-compliance.


I would rather you create your own toilet paper company based upon your own philosophy. You would, of course, have some competition in this industry, but that's capitalism baby, the more competition the better for us all.



[edit on 22-4-2010 by Jean Paul Zodeaux]



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 02:10 AM
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reply to post by Kaytagg
 





capitalism is fine and dandy when the consumers (who participate in the capitalist system) are rational and educated.


Let's keep it even simpler. Buyer and seller. The contract between these two parties is private and any intrusion upon that privacy changes the marketplace radically. Further, you yammer on about rational decisions and seemingly think you are one of the few rational souls out there. I see little evidence to support the veracity of this, but you are free to believe this if you wish. However, I would be most uncomfortable indeed, if it was you who was the one issuing licenses to consume based upon your views of education and what is rational.




But they are not rational and educated.


Do you see my point?




so the "solutions" the "free market" provides don't make a whole hell of a lot of sense; why should they? They were determined by irrational and uneducated consumers, who are ultimately responsible for what the manufacturer sells.


McDonald's is a perfect example of what I believe you are trying to communicate. A steady diet of that food is an irrational choice, but guess what, plenty of educated people make that irrational choice anyway. Why? Not sure why, I just have seen plenty of well educated people do it.




Same is true of elections -- and people still don't understand this concept, because they're too dumb to realize they're irrational and uneducated (and being manipulated.. cough fox news viewers cough). They do understand pain, though, which is a pity, because they ultimately bring it on themselves.


Yep, Fox news got Barak Obama elected, good point.




You gotta feel bad for these people.. I believe you need systems in place to protect them (from themselves).


Tyranny for the love of humanity! Wow! Good thing your around to protect us all...from ourselves.

[edit on 22-4-2010 by Jean Paul Zodeaux]



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 02:37 AM
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The bottom line perhaps is
Some people want it all for little sweat
They want huge returns for their ahem labour
They teach their offspring that working for a wage is for peasants
They tell them one day I will teach you how to trade and we will make not ten dollars an hour but ten thousand dollars an hour.
These people are parasites, but believe they are superior because they pursue a path of shrewdness.
Without the peasants working for ten bucks an hour worldwide if they are lucky, their l scam would crumble to dust, and oh my God they would have to do an honest days work.
In order to protect their scam, they must keep the peasants in need and wanting.
That is what humans do to animals.
That is what shrewd humans do to naive humans.
If too many humans say no then they are exterminated.

And replaced with the weary fearful witnesses.



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 02:41 AM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 



Let's keep it even simpler. Buyer and seller. The contract between these two parties is private and any intrusion upon that privacy changes the marketplace radically.



What are you talking about?




Part of the reason educated people eat unhealthy food is because educated people do not always act rationally, nor are educated people qualified (universally) to make proper dietary decisions anymore than you are capable of making proper medical opinions; it takes a panel of qualified experts to do that.

Which is why regulations are actually very important. Imagine a world where you had to be an expert in every field, and make your own valuations on every product you buy..

You just can't do that. You would spend your entire life just learning about how everything works, and you would never reach the point where you understand enough of it to run your own life based on your own opinions of the safety/efficacy of the products/services you buy.


For example, are you aware of how your car works? Do you know the operating system your cars electronics runs on? Do you know how your car is electrically wired? Do you know all the mechanical aspects of it, how long they will last, how safe they are, if there are any bugs in them? Do you know every detail about your cars engine?

Even if you learn that, there's a million other areas in life you have to be an expert in to be completely self reliant. Just try to wrap your brain around the obstacle of determining whether or not an airplane is safe or not.. do you really want to be sitting around in your basement figuring that out, or would you rather rely on somebody else? Preferably, that somebody else should be accountable for mistakes he/she makes when he tells you if the plane is safe, and part of keeping the plane safe means having regulations for how they are manufactured, who can fly them, etc.



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 02:42 AM
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You may find this very interesting and help u explain why we have been kept here


www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 03:10 AM
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reply to post by Kaytagg
 


In response to your question, the answer is simple. People have the right to contract. They have the right to be irrational, and they have the right to determine the amount of education they will seek.




Part of the reason educated people eat unhealthy food is because educated people do not always act rationally, nor are educated people qualified (universally) to make proper dietary decisions anymore than you are capable of making proper medical opinions; it takes a panel of qualified experts to do that.


Of course, the first part of your statement is just a restatement of what I said. The rest is utter nonsense and hardly qualifies as rational thought. Educated people are not qualified to make proper dietary decisions? Are you for real? Based upon your own rationale its astounding humanity survived long enough to get to the point your advocating. Further, my own personal doctor would vehemently disagree with your last remark, and feels more than qualified to make proper medical opinions without a panel of experts to back him up. I am sure my doctor has come across patients with illnesses he felt he wasn't qualified, but again, I am certain he did not consult a panel of qualified experts before recommending a specialist to his patient. Who is going to protect you from you, I wonder?




Which is why regulations are actually very important. Imagine a world where you had to be an expert in every field, and make your own valuations on every product you buy..


Ah! Again most excellent reasoning. Thank god there is a panel of experts in place to save me the need to educate myself about toilet paper. Gee, the more I think about your most excellent rationale, there must be some awesome experts out there creating the ease in which I buy clothes, food, and acquire shelter, not to mention such luxuries as DVD's, stereos, and such. And automobiles? Well, imagine if we all had to be experts in piston engines just so we could know whether or not we should buy a car.




You just can't do that. You would spend your entire life just learning about how everything works, and you would never reach the point where you understand enough of it to run your own life based on your own opinions of the safety/efficacy of the products/services you buy.


Here is the thing about rational thought and reason; if the premise is faulty, all that follows is too. Food for thought.




For example, are you aware of how your car works? Do you know the operating system your cars electronics runs on? Do you know how your car is electrically wired? Do you know all the mechanical aspects of it, how long they will last, how safe they are, if there are any bugs in them? Do you know every detail about your cars engine?


I am not an expert at all in this field, but am educated enough to know if there were no regulations intruding upon the production of automobiles, mine would be far less expensive than they are today, yours too. Here's the thing, even with this regulation, I have still bought a few lemons in my day, and once that happens, that is the last time I do business with that company, and if there weren't a big government in place taking tax dollars to bail out companies that have lost a significant customer base due to bad business choices, those who deserved to fail would, and those that deserve to succeed would be those that provide a quality product for a reasonable price, and no one need be an expert to know whether or not their car is working properly.




Even if you learn that, there's a million other areas in life you have to be an expert in to be completely self reliant.


And yet there are quite a few people on the planet who do not have the education you are describing who are self reliant. How does that work?




Just try to wrap your brain around the obstacle of determining whether or not an airplane is safe or not..


God forbid you are ever on an airplane plummeting to its certain destruction and have to wrap your brain around that, it does however, tragically happen. How have your precious regulations changed that?




do you really want to be sitting around in your basement figuring that out, or would you rather rely on somebody else?


No, I don't. Thank God I see the flaws in your rationale, otherwise I might be in the basement right now educating myself on the mechanics of computers before I could possibly buy one to make this post.




Preferably, that somebody else should be accountable for mistakes he/she makes when he tells you if the plane is safe, and part of keeping the plane safe means having regulations for how they are manufactured, who can fly them, etc.


If a company, under a free and unregulated market, kept building airplanes not safe to fly in, how long do you think this mass of irrational and uneducated people you pretend to be so magnanimous in your protection of, will keep flying on that companies planes? Try to wrap your brain around that.



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 03:18 AM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


How many smokers will keep smoking cigarettes, even though the product will eventually kill them?

There are forces beyond reason which drives actions in our lives.

And btw, you probably got ripped off when you bought your computer.. Just food for thought.



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 03:22 AM
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Originally posted by Kaytagg
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


How many smokers will keep smoking cigarettes, even though the product will eventually kill them?

There are forces beyond reason which drives actions in our lives.

And btw, you probably got ripped off when you bought your computer.. Just food for thought.


Who are you to prevent smokers from smoking? What is your point with this? More rational thought?

Odd that one who brags about his own atheism would make a remark such as: "There are forces beyond reason which drives actions in our lives." Huh.

As to your final claim, how you could you possibly know, are you a computer expert on this vaunted panel, or just your rational thinking at play?

[edit on 22-4-2010 by Jean Paul Zodeaux]



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 03:32 AM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


You're too funny..

I certainly did not mean god drives human behavior -- what I meant is that emotions and chemistry can play a major role in your behavior.. Acting rational is a luxury in most cases... but there are times (be it out of anger, depression, love, etc) where we do not make rational decisions. In the case of tobacco, it's a chemical in the tobacco that makes us act irrationally (by that I mean smoke something which is inherently bad for us).



So do you believe in god? Why? What evidence have you for a god..



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 03:46 AM
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Originally posted by Kaytagg
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


You're too funny..

I certainly did not mean god drives human behavior -- what I meant is that emotions and chemistry can play a major role in your behavior.. Acting rational is a luxury in most cases... but there are times (be it out of anger, depression, love, etc) where we do not make rational decisions. In the case of tobacco, it's a chemical in the tobacco that makes us act irrationally (by that I mean smoke something which is inherently bad for us).



So do you believe in god? Why? What evidence have you for a god..


I was only teasing you buddy, I know what you meant. I appreciate you tolerating my smarmy mood today. I can't, however, agree with you that rational thought is a luxury. It takes much practice and discipline, but since you are not alone in the rationale that people need to be protected from their selves, I would argue that makes rational thought a necessity!

Your tobacco argument is also falling short of rational thought, as today there are many who have been educated about the addictive properties in tobacco but still make the choice to smoke it. That is irrational, yet those who smoke it for the first time can't possibly be affected by the chemicals in that tobacco before they smoked some, do you understand? What chemical caused their irrational thought to begin with before the chemicals in cigarettes added to that irrationality?

You've asked me the God question before, and I avoid answering it because it is a personal issue. However, on a practical level, God given rights is an effective way of demonstrating those rights not granted by people, but by a higher authority. A more secular view of God given rights would be Natural rights, but the same principle applies. I firmly believe that much of the secular attack on God, is because the entrenched belief in God given rights places immense restrictions on wholly human institutions such as government.



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 04:03 AM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


So why do you believe in god?

Do you think you have free will?

Do you think god knows what you're going to do before you do it? Is he all knowing like that?



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 04:05 AM
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Try this:
Take a chicken, a laying chicken that has lived its entire life inside a climate controlled laying house, fed at certain intervals. Take it outside and give it freedom. The chicken will never leave the area, she will stay and eat scraps and finally die by the hands of a predator or disease. Well you may say chickens are dumb anyway.
A pig has been said to be the smartest animal by some despite its nasty habits.
Give a pig freedom after a life on a cozy farm and within 3 days it will return to its base savage self, becoming dangerous and destructive.
Now check this out:
Take a human being that has worked his entire life, fire him and make it impossible for him to get a job. Watch what happens. He will first of all seek aid becoming once again a slave to the system. The system may be family or goverment but once aid is taken he is dependent on others rules.

In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.---God Gen 3:19

just a thought



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 04:08 AM
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Originally posted by Kaytagg
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


So why do you believe in god?

Do you think you have free will?

Do you think god knows what you're going to do before you do it? Is he all knowing like that?


I have answered your question my friend, if you can't accept my answer this is your problem. I am not imposing God upon you, you are free to disbelieve and I fully support that freedom, in fact, I would argue you have a God given right to atheism. Is that okay with you?



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 04:14 AM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


I don't believe in god.. I think people who do are typically "different" in some way..

Believing in god, imo, seems to be an exercise in delusional behavior.



posted on Apr, 22 2010 @ 04:14 AM
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What an entertaining thread !!!

Put 7 Economists in a room and get 7 different opinions on Economy .




How would you put a nominal value for a giving Human Hour ?

That is where the answers are at , imho .



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