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Did extraterrestrial UFOs influence Leonardo da Vinci, Michaelangelo, and Columbus?

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posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 10:37 AM
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I've always found 'UFO' in Ghirlandaio's "The Madonna with St. Giovannino" very fascinating. What would prompt Ghirlandaio to put that object in the sky? I believe he must have been trying to express what he had seen or heard about.


Me too.

DaVinci's machine = simple abstraction of the "turtle shell" idea, so the alien connection is really a leap.

For the first example pic = Often the holy ghost was depicted as a luminous disc in the sky with holy rays coming down, this is merely the art symbolism of the time (and can be seen in numerous works).

But, having been a student of art history, I can't think of a single such example to explain Ghirlandaio's depiction... (and, in a larger zoom out of the work, you'll even see a person on the ground looking up at it)... It's really kind of a mystery.




posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 10:46 AM
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Interesting, but I think Et interfered with all ancient history that we studied in school, dont you think?



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by taccj9903
 


I think that it is plausible, and also, the whole top of a mountain is completely cleared off, and there is no sign of rubble or debris below! Could ancient man do that?



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 11:18 AM
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This subject is always interesting to talk about. Like many of you I am a skeptic but also lean towards the ancient astronaut theory as it seems the most logical. The more evidence that get known to the public will find its way to the top whether it be through big media or SyFy or anything else. Time will have its way.



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by tyranny22
 


uh-huh *nod*
Can we have a source of this groundbreaking claim?



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by jonnyc55
The pictures shown here are way to obvious that they are ET crafts.

You don't have to be educated to know there were no flying technology in them days.

So we can't be shy here and have to admit the artists were including ET crafts in their drawings.


Were there?

Have you learned anything about symbolism in Renaissance art and what such objects meant to the men painting them or are you looking at this at the most superficial level?



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 11:48 AM
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reply to post by Raider of Truth
 

Haha you just sumed up some of our UFO debunkers. :up.

Thanks for the laugh.



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by DoomsdayRex
 


DR - you're not wrong about there being a lot of symbolism in Renaissance art and many of the images are open to subjective interpretation and have prosaic explanations (link). Having said that I do think there are some genuinely interesting ones and some of the objects painted in the sky do look a bit similar to ones photographed today.








Ontario:


Link

Cheers.

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 12:06 PM
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Did extraterrestrial UFOs influence Leonardo da Vinci, Michaelangelo, and Columbus?

Eh, no.

Here's how I know.

Many thanks to Cicada for a very informative thread, albeit old and ignored these days by the young turks around here.

Harte



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by karl 12
Having said that I do think there are some genuinely interesting ones and some of the objects painted in the sky do look a bit similar to ones photographed today.






Just as a pedantic point of clarification, the above photos are not of a painting but are in fact a tapestry, Episodes in the Life of the Virgin Mary. The object in question may be a hat, like those worn by the priesthood, symbolizing the cardinal (or later archdeacon) who patronized the artist. The site you linked has many examples of these hats in art. They seem to be a rather common symbol in Renaissance art.



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 12:28 PM
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Leonardo Da Vinci's 'Last Supper'
ROME  —  It's a new Da Vinci code, but this time it could be for real.

An Italian musician and computer technician claims to have uncovered musical notes encoded in Leonardo Da Vinci's "Last Supper," raising the possibility that the Renaissance genius might have left behind a somber composition to accompany the scene depicted in the 15th-century wall painting...
www.foxnews.com...


They do say music is the language of the cosmos...
www.youtube.com...

[edit on 20-4-2010 by Envisionimage]



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by Portugoal
Great thread. Just going to throw something out there though.

Can't all of these objects/ "UFOs" be the artists representation of God coming from the sky. The UFO argument is convincing but there's defintely a good chance it is supposed to represent God.

Think about it. The Church would burn all work that was un-Catholic. If they saw UFOs in these paintings, and not God coming down to Earth, then they would be destroyed. If the Church saw anything, "alien" about them, you would have never seen the paintings.

But then again they could have a secret hidden meaning behind them (I already know the argument). To that I argue, the Church surely would ahve known about stories of UFOs about would not take the chance of something that can be interpreted as "God coming down to Earth" or a "UFO" being released.


I don't know about the other two, but the one where the beam comes down from the sky... that one doesn't necessarily look like a "UFO". It looks more to me like the sky opened up in that spot, and the rings look like clouds pushed to the side. It looks to me like a beam of light entering through an open ring of clouds rather than a saucer-shaped object in the sky.
As for Leonardo's inventions, he modeled the flying helicopter machine on tree seeds that fall to the ground spinning due to their shape. He was often inspired by nature. The saucer-shaped armored car, well, that just makes sense. If you were inside it you'd be protected from all sides as you are moving, and it would give you some distance from enemies. His region was at war, and he tried to think of all sorts of machinery to beat out the enemy.

I'm not saying there's no way they saw UFOs, I'm just saying that for most of the inventions there's a perfectly ordinary explanation.



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 12:51 PM
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reply to post by DoomsdayRex
 


Err yes that was slightly pedantic but thanks for the clarification.



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by One Step Beyond...
reply to post by DoomsdayRex
 


You are extremely right. The way these pictures were presented shows the nowadays context of strange things in the sky, shows the nowadays interpretation based on the UFO phenomenon and not the real context of that time.

It is something like Zecharia Sichin interpretation of the Sumerian tablets. It is interesting? Of course it is. It brings a new concept and a modern view towards the ancient civilizations? Of course it brings, but it is just an interpretation.

It is all based in context and in the way you can interpretate something from another time. You can think like they thought or put a recent context into it.

Did the prehistoric man invented the wheel because they needed or because they saw a flying saucer and tried to replicate it?

You decide.



First of all, definitely not the best analogy. Secondly, you're saying that since back in ancient times people may have seen angels or demons flying around in the sky and attempt to understand them as such in paintings? Well, ever think that maybe UFOs had an extremely huge influence on current religions of today?

What would you have done if you lived hundreds upon hundreds of years ago and you saw something you couldn't explain? You would immediately verify it with something you can, such as a religious phenomenon, angels, demons, etc.

Who's to say that what these men painted weren't actually UFOs? Who's to say that maybe just maybe they didn't even realize they could have been potential visitors from outer space, and instead thought they were just religious figures zooming around in the mortal world?

Afterall, religion was invented as a form of truth, and that's just what ancient people used it for. There's a reason the book is called 'Chariots of the Gods', by the way.



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 01:46 PM
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posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by -Blackout-
 


Just goes to show that the "watchers" have been around for a very long, long, long, long time. Keep tabs on us humans, showing up in the oddest places, like the famious art paintings. So yes I do believe all these folk were influenced in some way by what they saw in the sky, what they dreamed or possibly visitations. Will just have to wait. And hpefully humans will one day or night be welcomed into the kingdom sort of speaking.

If we don't destroy each other..again..

So yes...nice find OP..




posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 02:41 PM
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I think that it is plausible, and also, the whole top of a mountain is completely cleared off, and there is no sign of rubble or debris below! Could ancient man do that?


Absolutely. Our ancestors have accomplished some major construction efforts, that still stand the test of time. The Pyramids of Giza, and Harod's Mosada are two incredible examples, and there are plenty more.



The object in question may be a hat, like those worn by the priesthood, symbolizing the cardinal (or later archdeacon) who patronized the artist. The site you linked has many examples of these hats in art. They seem to be a rather common symbol in Renaissance art.


But what does it symbolize to have them floating in the air (or water, perhaps)? It is an interesting question. I thought the same thing when first viewing that tapestry, and a couple of others that feature that motif. Even the art historians seem to argue the point...



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by karl 12
 

Brillant karl, star reply. Some people *cough* just feel the urge to challenge even though its bloody obvious.

EDIT: If i was a debunker i would really struggle to find a explanation for these not being of ET origin. Who ever said they were hats...


[edit on 20-4-2010 by jonnyc55]



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by taccj9903
reply to post by -Blackout-
 


I am just glad to see the subject getting more notoriety in the mainstream entertainment. I am hoping there is a reason for it too. Look at how many movies there have been in the last year that dealt with the UFO/Alien subject. There have also been a number of documentaries on the History Channel and Nat Geo.


sure there´s a reason, some call it 'conditioning' others like to call it disclosure



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by Gazrok

I think that it is plausible, and also, the whole top of a mountain is completely cleared off, and there is no sign of rubble or debris below! Could ancient man do that?


Absolutely. Our ancestors have accomplished some major construction efforts, that still stand the test of time. The Pyramids of Giza, and Harod's Mosada are two incredible examples, and there are plenty more.

Gazrok,
He's parroting a new claim by VonDaniken that entire mountaintops were sheared off to create a flat place to draw a line.

That's simply ridiculous and not even the case anyway.

The Nazca plain is a plain - not a mountain range. The pics that show a "mountaintop sheared off" actually show a part of the plain that has eroded away. In some places, the plain has eroded enough to separate off, surrounded by gulleys, and the tops of some of these "pieces" have eroded away.

VonDaniken (et al.) point to these and claim they are "mouintaintops." And, since some of them are next to parts of the plain that have not eroded away, they get pics taken at an angle that makes it appear that the eroded "mountiantop" is higher than the surface of the plain. In fact, it is not.

So, it's not necessary to argue that it could have been done. It was most certainly not done.

This "mountaintops were sheared off!!!" was one of the more ridiculous claims made by the con men that made the first "ancient aliens" "documentary." I laughed my ass off when I heard this utterly ridiculous claim.

Originally posted by Gazrok


The object in question may be a hat, like those worn by the priesthood, symbolizing the cardinal (or later archdeacon) who patronized the artist. The site you linked has many examples of these hats in art. They seem to be a rather common symbol in Renaissance art.


But what does it symbolize to have them floating in the air (or water, perhaps)? It is an interesting question. I thought the same thing when first viewing that tapestry, and a couple of others that feature that motif. Even the art historians seem to argue the point...

Did you go to the thread by Cicada that I linked? It's all in there.

Is Cicada still around? That dude was awesome.

Harte

[edit on 4/20/2010 by Harte]



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