Would it be so bad to be required to have a license to have a child?

I think this idea is great! I mean it sure would've worked in my favor, I could've just said to my SO "No I don't want to go for the damn license, I want to keep my youthful healthy body unchallenged" but then again I think we'd see a lot more domestic violence, say if the man wants to breed and the woman, in this case me, doesn't then conflicts will be had in the relationship. But on the same token everybody would know how their partner feels about children and many divorces could be avoided, because you'd know what the other person expects from you in the breeding department and cut them loose before getting stuck doing something you never wanted!!!!! On the same token, at eighteen any girl or guy who knows without recourse they don't want to breed should be able to go into any dr's office and ask for a tubal or vasectomy! The only problem I see in this though is probably the intelligence would go down, because responsible people who know what they want in life are usually the more intelligent ones as well, typically.

You'd still have a bunch of yahoos breeding because when they figure out that nobody is getting licenses, they would have to become lax or worry about population halt.

Not saying intelligent people wouldn't want to have any children, but there are a great deal that'd choose not to. And since they are the minority in this world, there's already a very big problem with them perpetuating the species.
[edit on 20-4-2010 by ldyserenity]

[edit on 20-4-2010 by ldyserenity]

I'm all for it.

I get to decide, though, who gets liscensed. For starters, no more Anglos in the US: they've proven historically untrustworthy. Also no blacks, because they don't come from here either, never really wanted to be here in the first place. No hispanics either, they're just southern Euros. The only people liscensed to breed will be Native Americans, because we can be trusted to take care of the place and not overbreed.

Seriously, what an incredibly arrogant, self-centered idea.

Those people you rail about: perhaps if they were paid a living wage and allowed the time, energy and monetary surpluses to properly raise their children, things might be better, yes? Most of the problems are caused by the greed of the the wealthy. They have no other measure to seperate themselves, to be "better" than others, but money: they are no more skilled or intelligent than people from the lowest rungs of society, therefore they need wealth to show their "superiority". However, if you gave them what the poor start with, they too would be stuck where they started. Without the connections, or the the access to accumulated wealth from their familiy, they would do no better than anyone else. Without the time or energy surpluses there is no way to create the wealth necessary to lift yourself out of whatever class you were born in.

But the better-off think that it is their skill alone which places them where they are, not luck, not connections, not early advantages. It's illusory as well as delusional. Start from zero and see how far you get.

The only way a program of this scope will ever work is if all food is produced, packaged and distributed by the government allowing for a mass birth control measure. Even then you would have to outlaw gardens, farming, fishing, or any other possible source of food in order to make sure everyone is getting their medicine.

Another downside that people are not looking at is that a controlled breeding program would make it so that the unskilled labor workforce would dwindle to nothing as they couldn't afford the permits, so there would be major economic impacts from such a program.

I have no problems what so ever with a license for kids, as i will never be bringing someone into this world, and i have never wanted too.

But i do not know how people feel about this if they do want to bring someone into this world.

Originally posted by Helig
The only way a program of this scope will ever work is if all food is produced, packaged and distributed by the government allowing for a mass birth control measure. Even then you would have to outlaw gardens, farming, fishing, or any other possible source of food in order to make sure everyone is getting their medicine.

Another downside that people are not looking at is that a controlled breeding program would make it so that the unskilled labor workforce would dwindle to nothing as they couldn't afford the permits, so there would be major economic impacts from such a program.

No, they would merely have a caste system. Where if you were part of the under caste, you could have children if it was considered prudent. However, to avoid problems with the other people being upset with this privilege, those children would be required to stay in the under caste having no rights to privileges granted to the other castes.

So now you have gender ownership, lost boys, and caste systems.

So far its looking like a FANTASTIC solution.

I would go for it. I would take it a step farther and make the parents have to pass a IQ test. We as humans owe it to ourselves to better the species.
You will get few arguments that the common sense of society seems to be breaking down even as we build our knowledge of the world around us.
It is too bad that sperm/egg count cannot be a byproduct of intelligence.

my 2 ¢

this is screamingly brilliant. there is a more than enough unadopted reasons to not have children.

It's true there are bad parents though people should think about problem reaction solution before they put their trust in Eugenics. I hope people who are for this aren't against wars in the name of Eugenics.I would say people seem to believe that this licensing would fix all the ills in society which all I have to say is wishful thinking.

i just want to say to those who have replied in the subject of coming from the types of parents i am referring:

it is not my intentions to upset anybody who came from that type of background and made it as a contributing member of society. my fiance' came from the EXACT definition of what my OP was referring to. i don't think i've ever heard a more disgusting story of parents (as far as somebody i know goes). she also agrees that people are having babies like they are buying fast food; millios are doing it every year.

a majority of these people could care less and look at giving birth as a paycheck, tax write off, fashion accessory etc...

i just wanted to know what my fellow ATSers thoughts were on this subject.

i also would like to thank everybody for their feedback as this is only my 2nd thread i've ever created.

Excellent question. I am a new father and this is a tough gig. Some background on me. I am married to my first wife of 2 years, I have an advanced college education and this was a planned pregnancy. I love my little guy (Odin) more than anything in this world. With that said, I can already see how a child could decimate a marriage, make an individual tired beyond comprehension and test your patience to the limit. I have studied classical guitar for many years and my concentration, pain tolerance, and commitment I would say are above average. Yet I found found myself tooling with all of the aforementioned challenges. I can not imagine having an unplanned pregnancy, not having insurance, not being married and having a helping spouse, significant other, etc etc. I can not imagine being able to provide for a young infant, or many young infants had I done this any sooner. Yet I know that people have them in undesirable conditions and situations that basically set the child up for a lifetime of extreme challenges. I came from a single mother on welfare and luckily we beat the odds. I applaud single mothers who make it through, but it is so difficult and nonsensical to go through something like that. I want to have one more child, but if I had 3, kids would not be going to college. I don't understand how some people do not take this seriously. It will change your life, for better or worse. I would not change a single thing in my life and having my son is amazing. It is a lot of work to do things in what I consider the right way; to be able to give him what I think he deserves, and to give him as many opportunities to grow, learn and explore as possible. To underage people, and to people who are having many children while being supported on welfare, I urge you to reconsider having children. They need a lot of love and attention. To me, it is a serious crime to not allow them to have this.

reply to post by Hardstepah


I fail to see any logic or reason for your post, other than you have an agenda.
Who should be given the authority to deciede who can cannot have kids, and on what grounds would their decision be based.
We are all human and subject to ERROR.
So when one gets a licences would one also get an owners manual and a list of LAWS to on what parents can and can not do, what to feed them, when to change them ,when to bathe them , when to take them to the doctor, what schools the child should go to.
The system already has too much say in how parents raise their kids.
Just because the system thinks a couple is responsible does not make it so.
Child services has placed children into foster care and the child has died at the hands of the foster parents after the foster parents were interviewed and ruled good parents.
To bad ATS doesn't require a license to post threads.

S&F OP, wish i could give you a dozen more!

This is something we desperately need. Best Idea EVER.

Its painfully evident that we are overpopulating this earth and making it worse and worse every day due to our pollution.

I would bet any amount of money on the idea that, We're either gonna overpopulate ourselves and F stuff up, or we are going to grow up, and learn to deal with this issue as adults.

I seriously doubt the credibility of anyone who would risk Messing up our future, to let moronic people have the right to have as many kids as they want.

also, although not publicly admitted, it seems that the gov't is making it harder on the little guy to get by, this being related to trying to reduce how many children people have, just an idea

Originally posted by apacheman
Seriously, what an incredibly arrogant, self-centered idea.

Those people you rail about: perhaps if they were paid a living wage and allowed the time, energy and monetary surpluses to properly raise their children, things might be better, yes? Most of the problems are caused by the greed of the the wealthy. They have no other measure to seperate themselves, to be "better" than others, but money: they are no more skilled or intelligent than people from the lowest rungs of society, therefore they need wealth to show their "superiority". However, if you gave them what the poor start with, they too would be stuck where they started. Without the connections, or the the access to accumulated wealth from their familiy, they would do no better than anyone else. Without the time or energy surpluses there is no way to create the wealth necessary to lift yourself out of whatever class you were born in.

But the better-off think that it is their skill alone which places them where they are, not luck, not connections, not early advantages. It's illusory as well as delusional. Start from zero and see how far you get.

i am not saying because you are poor you shouldn't ever be allowed to have kids. however lets compare breeding to say....smoking. if you can't afford it, you shouldn't be doing it if you can't support it.

i know comparing children to cigarettes is going to get me some "idiot" remarks, but think about it. would you buy a porsche if all you could afford payments on was a honda civic? probably not.


how is this idea self-centered? honestly, i don't think i would ever want kids in this world where they would most likely be beat up or picked on or worse yet killed by some ignorant thug's kid. you know how many times in school i was told i wasn't as good as everybody else because i WASN'T "ghetto"? honestly, these same idiots who used to jump me because my parents weren't divorced or because my parents sacrificed things they wanted to give me and my older brother things we wanted (my parents weren't wealthy, they just bought crap so we could have the things they never had its called sacrifice, something parents today don't know about), are the same people raising children today.

these "parents" are instilling these issues into their children that if you have a good life (something everybody should be able to give to a child before having one) and are NOT "ghetto", you should be beat up and ridiculed as if it was a bad thing to have parents who love each other and yourself. these people are also assuring these kids that what these no talent ass clown rappers (lil wayne, kanye west, the list goes on...) are who they should listen to foradvice on life. people who would rather let the TV do the parenting rather then themselves, just so they can drink and do some drugs.

as i said before, i know this isn't always the case, however, making a statement such as "perhaps if they were paid a living wage and allowed the time, energy and monetary surpluses to properly raise their children, things might be better, yes?" is just a cop out that this country is staggeringly adopting so people can do whatever they want and not have to try anymore.

who's fault is it if dad can't take a clean piss test and has to work for mcdonalds? many of the situations of being 35 with 5 kids and only making minimum wage is self inflicted and thus dad cops out to not being given any opportunity.


forgive me for taking necessary steps in making sure i finish school and have a career before having children, which is my point.

nobody takes responsibility for their choices and if a bad one is made, people expect everybody else to help. what are you doing having 3 kids on minimum wage only to NOT take action and have 2 more? also, is this fair to the children that their parents are irresponsible and don't give a crap about their well-being just so they can get more foodstamps/financial aid/tax returns?

reply to post by Hardstepah


By extension this means you would also believe in the murder (abortion) of any child born without State approval?

Who decides who can have children and who can not, you?

How do you enforce this, abortion and forced sterilization?

Have you actually thought this through?

Would they install an intrauterine device to all females when they are born that requires a government employee to disable it before they can have a child?

What would they base it on? If your a waitress in a restaurant no kids because you earn to little? Rich you can have all the kids you want no matter what kind of jerk you are? Overweight, you can't have children. Eat at McDonalds, you can't have children? Smoke cigarettes, you can't have children.

You ever watched the movie "Brazil" or read 1984?

You need to read this article about what happens when the State controls procreation.

What if this occurs and the State decides something you do, something you enjoy, makes you ineligible to have children?

Would not a better solution be to take the profitability out of being a baby factory? I don't mean not support the innocent child. I mean if a person gets State Aid of some sort, they are at the same time required to do labor to pay back the State. You want Mothers Day checks, you have to do Janitorial work in government buildings, clean toilets, mow lawns in parks, clean up litter, pull weeds or any other labor to pay back the taxpayers for their support?

If they have to work for what they get, they will stop having babies. I think it is just that simple. Why we have not required the able bodied on State Aid to work in exchange for help is beyond me.

I think what is really going on here is that the Politicians are using welfare to buy votes. They should take the blame for any unintended consequences. It is they who decided to give people help without requiring them to do work in exchange. They are not dumb, so it is on purpose. Blame them.

As to the people, they don't know where the money comes from, they just want their "Obama Money". As long as the money keeps flowing, they will keep voting for whatever person gives them their money. They don't care that its being stolen from the people who earned it to give it to loosers to buy their votes.






[edit on 4/20/2010 by Blaine91555]

Originally posted by OLD HIPPY DUDE
reply to post by Hardstepah

 

I fail to see any logic or reason for your post, other than you have an agenda.
Who should be given the authority to deciede who can cannot have kids, and on what grounds would their decision be based.
We are all human and subject to ERROR.
So when one gets a licences would one also get an owners manual and a list of LAWS to on what parents can and can not do, what to feed them, when to change them ,when to bathe them , when to take them to the doctor, what schools the child should go to.
The system already has too much say in how parents raise their kids.
Just because the system thinks a couple is responsible does not make it so.
Child services has placed children into foster care and the child has died at the hands of the foster parents after the foster parents were interviewed and ruled good parents.
To bad ATS doesn't require a license to post threads.

i know right? too bad i can't be required to have a license to free speech. i have an agenda? if i do, my sole agenda would be to prevent the idiocracy that this country is destined to become, worse then it already is.

these people who whine and cry about not having the same opportunities as everybody else, the ones who sit around on their lazy fat asses and collect welfare, are the same people WHO DO NOT TRY TO BETTER THEMSELVES. i chat up any homeless guy i am about to give spare $ to, and about 75% of the time they straight up admit they don't do anything to better themselves because they literally say it's just easier to be homeless because there are always those bleeding hearts who will pay for their food, cigarettes and booze.

once again, this is NOT everybody in this situation but seems to be the MAJORITY.

sorry if your opinion clashes with mine, but to say i should have to have a license to post a thread on ATS is ridiculous. there is a huge difference between freedom of speech and the (what should be) privilege to raise children.

i wouldn't expect an "OLD HIPPY DUDE" to be able to distinguish the difference due to the fact that an "old hippy dude" probably is or was at one point part of the problem (given the nature of "hippies").

reply to post by Hardstepah


Sorry but you need a reality check.
Nothing in this world is a guarantee but death and taxes. NOTHING!
So stop assuming and judging others, and just try to do your best, and hope and pray like everyone else.

[edit on 20-4-2010 by OLD HIPPY DUDE]

reply to post by Hardstepah


I appreciate your sentiment OP, but cmon a permit to have kids? You need to think about this long and hard. Ask the chinese how they feel about it. You want the government to have the authority to tell you if you are fit to have a child? How about if you are fit to exist? Or if you are born with a defect, should you be put down? What you can study in college?

Worst idea ever. Here's what you do, and shame on you for not doing it. Call the police. Call social services. Report people for welfare fraud. Report for reckless endangerment of a child. If you aren't doing this, you are just as bad as they are. And you aren't willing to stand up the children for yourself so you want the govt to regulate it. Lazy. I think you are part of the problem and not the soloution. If you have time to gripe about it on here then you have time to do something about it in real life. I wonder how many of these kids have died because you kept it to yourself.

We don't need more government regulation we need to enforce the laws we have. And we need to have good people stand up and do the right thing as opposed to being useless bystanders.

Originally posted by Blaine91555

reply to post by Hardstepah

 

What would they base it on? If your a waitress in a restaurant no kids because you earn to little? Rich you can have all the kids you want no matter what kind of jerk you are? Overweight, you can't have children. Eat at McDonalds, you can't have children? Smoke cigarettes, you can't have children.
[edit on 4/20/2010 by Blaine91555]

again, not what i am saying at all. I SMOKE. my girlfriend is a barista for starbucks and i work at a video game store. HOWEVER, we take the necessary steps to PREVENT having a child before we are finished with school and before we have the resources made available by having a steady and stable income, to give a child a good life on our own without the government having to give us your tax dollars. if this means i'm arrogant and think i'm better than anybody else then so be it. we struggle while going to school to have an apartment and pay for bills and necessities. we don't DEMAND (emphasis on demand. has anybody ever heard people at the welfare office? like they're entitled to free money?) money to help us out because we made a stupid decision to have children we couldn't afford.

why should any of these people be given an easy way out in life when (even if we wanted to) we aren't even eligible because we don't have children we can't afford? for what reason do people say they have children who were not planned? "i can't feel it with a condom on." or "it just feels better."

i am not saying because of where you work or how much money you make is what constitutes your eligibility to have children. i am simply saying if you can't afford it, don't have children. but i guess those poor folk don't have access to free condoms at a planned parenthood clinic.

if you can make a living making minimum wage and raise a decent, civilized, productive human being then by all means knock yourself out. we all know that this cannot be done, henceforth NOT BEING IRRESPONSIBLE and having 6 kids just because you don't know what birth control is or because you don't want to use it.

like i said, would you buy a $40,000 escalade when you have, lets say 4 kids; if all you could afford was a $8,000 honda civic? probably not, however the people i am referring to would rather take the food out of their kids mouth so they could give off the appearance of being rich. sounds like people who are very deserving of the right to reproduce.

i am not brainwashed, and i do what i can to make sure i make it so i don't ever need to "hope" or "pray"

broken record time:

if driving is a privilege not a right, then why the hell isn't raising a human being?

[edit on 20-4-2010 by Hardstepah]

reply to post by DrJay1975




you tell me buddy, how many children have died because i "kept it to myself" since you seem to know what i do when i am not visiting ATS on my spare time?

what makes you think i DIDN'T call the police or social services when people like my neighbors have a meth lab in their house?

YOU DON'T, so please before you make up imaginary stories of what i don't do, why don't you ask me what i HAVE DONE in my personal encounters with these low lifes.

you are right though, let's send these kids to foster homes where they can be molested and beaten. not all foster homes are bad, but this is also a problem that can be discussed in a different topic.

i'm lazy? how? what am i supposed to do? give myself super powers that enable me to watch over the children of america and make sure they are all raised properly?

come now people i have only seen maybe a hand full of posts that are discussing the issue at hand and not coming up with imaginary scenarios (especially of how i handle things of this nature) and personal attacks.

you don't have to agree i can respect that, but please, don't tell ME what I do, unless you happen to be big brother and documenting my entire life.

Originally posted by Thirty_Foot_Smurf
How about having a license for existence. What if the populations of the earth had to go in front of a committee and justify their existence every year or so. If you stop producing then you are eliminated. Would this also help eliminate social burdens?

The Nazis had something almost just like that.
It was a concept called "Life Unworthy of Life".

Basically anything they considered parasitic, such as the mentally or physically disabled, retired, criminals, homeless, street children, and so on would be sterilized and/or exterminated.