The ATS Complainer--A Conspiracy In The Making.

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posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by triplescorpio
i can almost certainly say that those who say the new ats chicks are sexest or some drivle are proly not perceived as beautiful they see these to girls as competition and the men who say its wrong are proly not received well by women they approach.


Sigh...

Let me clue you in on what you seem to have missed on your own.

1) The original CC clip ended with both girls being labeled "the cutie" and "the hottie". If that is not sexist...then gee wiz, what is? Sure, even if the two girls in mention didn't find anything wrong with that, it would be considered a political nightmare for any company to have done this.

Even Hooters doesn't deliver their women as "the hottie or the cutie".

2) Not getting received well by women? It is funny that you say this (some of the staff made the same comment). Someday if you want to play a game of "get the ladies", we can go do that. I think you will find I have little trouble in that field.

3) Picking at straws? No...dozens of people had a problem with it. Women, men, some staff, many members of all ages and backgrounds. For anyone to brush that off lightly as "something not serious" would also be a nightmare for any business.

In short...the mistake was on the side of ATS and it was corrected.

Do not, even for a moment, think is wasn't.

Good day.




posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by Mr Mask
In short...the mistake was on the side of ATS and it was corrected.

Do not assume there is any consideration that we believe there was a mistake. It was removed to eliminate an unnecessary distraction that overwhelmed a select, very-vocal few.



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


Whatever the reason was for the removal of the "cutie" and "hottie" label, I would still like to say thank you for doing it.

I think it was the right thing to do.



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Do not assume there is any consideration that we believe there was a mistake. It was removed to eliminate an unnecessary distraction that overwhelmed a select, very-vocal few.


Oh, trust me...I do not assume that any of you "think you made a mistake".

But, I have done my communicating and heard from enough people on this to make my choice in believing there was a mistake made.

You, and your site, are all welcome to believe otherwise.

But, proper PR protocol of business support the idea that what went down was a mistake.

Was it one? Who knows...

If you ever want to discuss this privately, I'd be more then welcomed to share what I have learned from some of the parties involved, along with give you my experiences with companies that have also made the same public-relations-mistakes.

I mean...there is much I have not typed, due to not wanting to cause more trouble...but I am pretty sure I got a nail-in-the-coffin comment for you if you wish to hear it...but I rather that be private.

Anyways...making a mistake is human.

Refusing to see one for what it is....is also human.

We are all human.

I may be wrong in my views...but being in marketing myself, and for a very long long time, I am trusting my views on this.

Feel free to not agree.


PS- Correct me if I am wrong....when a business makes a move with a product, and it is not received well to he point of damaging said product, and then the company changes product to better suit the product's acceptance to the targeted audience/consumer, THAT IS IN FACT a mistake being corrected.

Saying you personally do not agree with the view is fine.

But changing the product to silence a HUGE portion of ATS users, is direct proof that a mistake (in marketing) was indeed made and then corrected.

Sorry to be a stickler...but this is silly and shouldn't be denied after the act.

You don't want to admit a mistake took place...that is fine.

Enjoy that stance.



[edit on 20-4-2010 by Mr Mask]



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 12:20 PM
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reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


Not to be a stick in the mud or anything, because I think the new idea of conspiracy "chicks" is a great idea, but I did have to laugh when I looked at the top of the screen, and saw "teaser" right under the picture of the 2 pretty girls!

Great planning? Or a coincidence?



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
It was removed to eliminate an unnecessary distraction that overwhelmed a select, very-vocal few.


That is disheartening ...

To think that a very vocal minority can wield such influence over a silent and vocal majority.

I for one am not embracing this precedent.



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by schrodingers dog

To think that a very vocal minority can wield such influence over a silent and vocal majority.



Well, to be fair SDog, if the majority kept silent, then there is really no way of knowing what their opinion on the matter was. Perhaps some of those who kept silent even agreed with those of us who stated in public that we didn't like the way Asala and AshleyD were presented?

Peace.



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 12:29 PM
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reply to post by ziggystar60
 


Well I can only take SO at his word when he states "the very vocal few."

ETA: Furthermore, if one goes back to the original thread, the support overwhelms the criticism in numbers, ... most importantly it was supported by asala and ashley.

[edit on 20 Apr 2010 by schrodingers dog]



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by schrodingers dog


To think that a very vocal minority can wield such influence over a silent and vocal majority.

I for one am not embracing this precedent.


That is funny...what if one of the ladies actually agreed and didn't like the title placed on her as well?

Does the view also then only belong to a minority?

Look...save it for someone who thinks business should make sexual comments about its members or workers.

It was a PR nightmare, and an amateur mistake. One that could only be made by people who were not thinking correctly about the dynamics of the group here.

If you want to see an ATS where women are reduced to "cutie and hottie" and people answer phones saying "hey baby, how you doing", that is fine...

But make no mistake in assuming that is acceptable business practice on a site filled with women, men, children, christians, muslims, prudes, parents, etc etc.

It was a risky move and it resulted in a correction.

I have NO DOUBT that a majority here wants to see women labeled as sex objects.

Hell, I have doubt that the moral fiber of this entire race of Humans is all messed up and twisted into a self-serving porn-fest of violence and stupidity.

So...yeah.

Trust me...I know many "men" enjoyed the idea.

The few who didn't were actually very pissed.

As they should have been.

When dealing with the public, there are serious rules of interaction. If you want this site to have a wider audience...selling its members as "cutie and hottie" is not the way.

It is that simple.

I can hook you up with more then half a dozen Agents to explain it to you if you wish.



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 12:33 PM
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I for one am very bored with it all and whilst I understand everyone's concerns and viewpoints I really think there are more important going's on in the world.

This has more than ran it's course.

Let's just sit back and wait for the first show and then offer constructive criticism whatever our take on it.

I know there are important issues being discussed but it's been done to the nth degree.



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 12:36 PM
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reply to post by schrodingers dog
 


Fair enough, SDog.

I am still happy that the labels were removed. I do actually care a great deal about ATS, and I think the simple, little change made the video far more classy.



[edit on 20/4/10 by ziggystar60]



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by Freeborn
I for one am very bored with it all and whilst I understand everyone's concerns and viewpoints I really think there are more important going's on in the world.

This has more than ran it's course.

Let's just sit back and wait for the first show and then offer constructive criticism whatever our take on it.

I know there are important issues being discussed but it's been done to the nth degree.


I agree, I am also tired of this debate.

Nothing more tiresome then hearing older gentleman debating why it was not a mistake to label women as objects of desire.

I was big enough to admit I may be wrong, but I do not think I am.

But alls I hear is "we didn't make a mistake, a FEW people got upset, maybe you don't have luck with the ladies,etc etc"

Yeah...sure...

Feels great.



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 12:39 PM
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reply to post by Mr Mask
 


Though I disagree with the premise of your objection, I understand and respect your concerns in this regard.

My issue here isn't the CC one per se ...

Next time another issue is raised will it be the strategy of the few to complain as vociferously and repeatedly as possible until they get their way, safe in the knowledge that this is a successful strategy?

This strategy seems to have prevailed and the wishes of the minority were remedied to avoid further "distraction."

Is this to be the blueprint for ATS going forward?


[edit on 20 Apr 2010 by schrodingers dog]



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 12:44 PM
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reply to post by Mr Mask
 


Some people gained a little bit of respect in my book, other's didn't.

Even though I personally took no offence I am still pleased that for whatever reason the membership were listened to and a compromise was reached.

I am sure that if this proves a success, which everyone agrees it COULD do, then I'm sure we'll all forget about the bickering over the last couple of days and will concentrate on congratulating A&A and the back room guys on a job well done.....or will we?



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by schrodingers dog
reply to post by Mr Mask
 


Though I disagree with the premise of your objection, I understand and respect your concerns in this regard.

My issue here isn't the CC one per se ...

Next time another issue is raised will it be the strategy of the few to complain as vociferously and repeatedly as possible until they get their way?

This strategy seems to have prevailed and the wishes of the minority were remedied to avoid further "distraction."

Is this to be the blueprint for ATS going forward?


Look...me and you disagree enough as it is. But I do see you as someone with intellect and a deeper consideration.

Look... I admit, I am a minority. I do not like porn, I am a feminist, I have serious issues with things most people do not even consider.

I know this.

But there are hundreds of people here who also belong to minorities amongst us that also share these views in this particular situation.


Moving away from areas such as "sexualizing members here" I can fully understand what you are saying. It can even seem like a hostage situation where ATS is being held at some metaphorical gun point. It isn't easy running any form of media, and often you lose control of finer details of said media in order to silence a small few.

It sucks...I've dealt with that many times in the past, and have had to buckle or break for something I didn't agree with, just to save the product and see it sell.

I dunno...I understand your side...hell, I even Understand ATS's side.

This is why all PR should be handled by a professional. Someone who gets paid to test products. That is expensive and hardly something a small business can do for every project on the table.

But...a wise marketer knows what ground is dangerous, and usually agrees to remain safely away from such areas just to better sell a product.

In my views...this was a hassle nobody had to suffer if someone just said during making this project-

"hey, you think our resident parents, religious freaks and our anti-media-people are going to have a problem with this?"

Then someone would have said..."yup".

I dunno...it was a mistake, and mistakes are easy to make when marketing a product out of a small business.

It bothers me to have to be so vocal about this. I never enjoy butting heads with my favorite website's owners and staff.

I just can't stay silent in the face of such a thing.



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by Mr Mask

But I do see you as someone with intellect and a deeper consideration.


Thank you, the feeling is mutual.



I dunno...it was a mistake, and mistakes are easy to make when marketing a product out of a small business.


Maybe, but that element hasn't been conceded by the decision makers ... all that was conceded was that the basically the issue was more hassle than it was worth.

Though I understand staff's position on this, it gives me concern as to what message it is sending down the line. For you, sooner or later, and I will surely find ourselves at the "wrong" end of it. Not because someone made a valid argument and persuaded reconsideration, but simply because they held their breath long enough.


It bothers me to have to be so vocal about this. I never enjoy butting heads with my favorite website's owners and staff.

I just can't stay silent in the face of such a thing.


No reason to be bothered, that's what we're here for, I disagree with staff quite often ... heck, I assume they disagree with each other just as often.

Standing on principle is a virtuous endeavor, unfortunately in this case it seems that that's not the reason the change was made ... leaving all of us with a degree of loss.



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by schrodingers dog
 


Simply put, its easier to complain than it is to appreciate the time and effort people put into things.

We live in a society that apparently wants to smear, criticise and accenuate the negative.

You can see it in celebrity culture, in politics, on the internet and on the streets.

And some people, if they can't find a flaw to exploit, simply invent something.

Its a sad fact of life these days.

You can either rise above it, or fall into the mire.

[edit on 20/4/10 by neformore]



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 01:17 PM
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Oh we're still discussing this because I thought it was resolved yesterday.


This is the general breakdown of site announcement threads where a new concept is being introduced. Those who love it generally leave one post that boils down to 'Hey. Like it! Well, see ya around!' The group with the issue (and there is always the group with the issue), generally stick around in the thread, pressing in their points, generally the same point repeatedly. That always makes it appear there is a lot more derision than there actually is.

It goes along the lines of when you agree with something, all it takes is to say 'I agree!' and you're done. It's always a more wordy task to disagree, which brings on the appearance there is more disapproval than approval.

And Mask, I had been keeping it to myself but since you have referenced u2u's multiple times, I'll do the same. My u2u light wouldn't go off yesterday with all the kind things that were said. Just saying. Once again it all goes back to two different opinions always being expressed.

As for the 'mistake issue.' No, I don't think it was a mistake (disagree if you will- no biggie to me). I fully understand the concept that when you have many projects on the plate at once, as ATS often and currently does, sometimes you make quick adjustments in order to keep the peace and move along in order to attend to more pressing matters.

As one of the two it was directed towards, I don't see it as a mistake and understand it was for the teaser in a bit of an effort to show this is not about taking ourselves too seriously but having fun with it. And that's been altered so it's bygones of an issue.

Anyways, I don't want to get burnt out discussing the crackers and ice water. I say we wait for the steak and wine to come.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts.



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 01:21 PM
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Talk about beating a dead horse. Is this really such a big deal that it needs to be dragged through 2 threads and 2 days?



posted on Apr, 20 2010 @ 01:22 PM
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Has anyone bothered to take into account what the two Ladies think of all this? all this continuing gripe could be having an overwhelming effect on them, maybe it isn't, I have to admit to being a little pissed off when I saw some of the first comments in that thread, I find nothing wrong with the idea itself as long as the staff can assure the rest of us that these Ladies will in no way be placed in any danger by pushing a conspiracy over the edge so to speak and putting them in the line of fire should the truth get to close for comfort.

I doubt anyone really needed another thread pointing out the woes most of us are seeing here, but we have to deal with it, or if you don't want to why even come here? it is there for all to see however that there are those who are here to do nothing but go against opinion, whether it's right or not, that is the way they live their lives also probably.

It does not alter the fact that what effects us all in the real world effects them also if they choose to accept the fact or not that's just the way it is and always going to be, as for those who may accept a paycheck to do that, then more fool on them, because that paycheck will bring them exactly the same thing which is coming to us all, they just have to live with selling out, the realisation will come too late, it still does not mean they will get a ride on the boat out of hell, when they are no longer needed they probably will go to the top of the list of those to get rid of, before they have a chance to own up that it is happening, after all the man has all their information needed to get to them quicker, am I not right? so as I said they made the bed they sleep in they cant expect sympathy.

Having said that I would like to wish them the greatest of luck with this project, and hope it all goes well, just keep these Ladies out of harms way, but I doubt that needed saying I'm sure someone has their backs.





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