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Originally posted by lambs to lions
reply to post by muons200
Please. Last time I checked Israel was not deploying suicide bombers in the name of Judaism.
The have been enslaved, dispursed, and conquered for 2500 years.
Just as near as in the 19th century, there were only about 15,000 Jews in Palestine. In 1893, for example, the Arabs
under the Ottoman control comprised roughly 95 percent of the population which they had been possession for 1300 years.
Erect a Jewish State at once, even if it is not in the whole of the land. The rest will come in the course of time.
After the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state
Later Israel barred the return of the Palestinian exiles to their homeland. The fact that the creation of Israel entailed a moral crime against the Palestinian people was well understood by Israel’s leaders as Ben-Gurion said to the president of the World Jewish Congress,
most Arab leaders urged the Palestinian population to stay home, but fear of violent death at the hands of Zionist forces led most of them to flee. (S.
If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been antisemitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?
said Golda Meir, the Israeli Prime Minister and a famous troll
“There was no such thing as a Palestinian people,”
. (Note this statement was not followed by an evil laughter so don't get any wrong ideas). Anyway, even Prime Minister Ehud Barak’s purportedly generous offer at Camp David in July 2000 would only have given the Palestinians a disarmed and dismembered set of
“When was there an independent Palestine people with a Palestine state?” It was not as though there was a Palestine people in Palestine considering itself as a people and we came and threw them out and took their country from them. They did not exist.” (S
"Bantustans" under de facto Israeli control (S)
They are our only real ally in a unstabe, war torn middle east, not to mention a democracy.
The new policy, which applies to guards at train crossing points, is being implemented even though the country’s Arab citizens -- numbering 1.2 million and nearly one-fifth of the total population -- have been exempt from serving in the military since Israel’s establishment.
Ahmed Tibi, an Arab member of the Israeli parliament, complained to Israel Railways and the attorney general last week, arguing that the move was meant “to cleanse the railways of Arab employees”.
“It is an especially grave matter as this is a public company whose operations are meant to benefit all citizens,” he said.
The announcement came as a confidential European diplomatic report issued its most damning assessment of what it claimed was an Israeli strategy to create a Jewish majority in the city’s predominantly Arab east.
Israeli government figures obtained under a Freedom of Information Act request showed that 4,577 Palestinians had been stripped of the right to live in East Jerusalem last year, a record.
1. Inter-faith marriages. A couple who follows two different religions, or a secularist and a member of a religion cannot be officially married.
2. Civil marriages for couples who want a non-religious wedding.
3. Secular Jews, and Jews who follow non-Orthodox Jewish traditions, like Reform Judaism. These form the majority of adults in Israel.
4. Couples where one or two partners are not a Jew, Christian, Muslim or Druze.
5. Loving, committed same-sex couples in Israel who are discriminated against by all of the religious authorities.
The Israeli government has launched a television and internet advertising campaign urging Israelis to inform on Jewish friends and relatives abroad who may be in danger of marrying non-Jews.
The advertisements, employing what the Israeli media described as “scare tactics”, are designed to stop assimilation through intermarriage among young diaspora Jews by encouraging their move to Israel.
As the Christian world celebrates Christmas, and as Christians in Palestine and in Israel celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ in Bethlehem, the Chief Rabbinate in Israel recommended that hotels and restaurants in the country should refrain from displaying Christian symbols.
Chief Rabbinate In Israel Demands Not Displaying Christian Symbols
The Rabbinical “Lobby for Jewish Values” started recently a campaign targeting restaurants and hotels that decorated their buildings for Christmas, and its chairman, Ofer Cohen, said that the lobby is considering a boycott campaign against these businesses.
The lobby raises the issue every year around Christmas in an attempt to stop entrainment places from displaying Christian festivities, while this year a source at the council said that businesses that refuse to comply could have the Kashrut certificate revoked.
Following the complaints, Oded Weiner, director-general of the Chief Rabbinate, received a call from Israel’s Foreign Ministry, and said that this issue is only a recommendation to the hotels and restaurants. But he also said that although this is a non-binding proposal, and although it is improper not to display Christian symbols, yet “such symbols could offend members of other faiths”.
Father Samuel Aghoyan, a senior Armenian Orthodox cleric in Jerusalem's Old City, told the newspaper “that he's been spat at by young Haredi (God-fearing religious Jews) and national Orthodox Jews “about 15 to 20 times” in the past decade”. Father Aghoyan added: "Every single priest in this church has been spat on. It happens day and night."
Similarly, Father Athanasius, a Texas-born Franciscan monk who heads the Christian Information Centre in Jerusalem’s Old City, said he's been spat at by Orthodox Jews "about 15 times in the last six months".
Jewish spitting is not exactly breaking news. I myself have explored the issue more than once. The Israeli Professor Israel Shahak commented on Jewish hatred towards Christianity and its symbol, suggesting that “dishonouring Christian religious symbols is an old religious duty in Judaism.” According to Shahak, “spitting on the cross, and especially on the Crucifix, and spitting when a Jew passes a church, have been obligatory from around AD 200 for pious Jews”.
Interestingly enough, Jewish spitting has had an impact on the European urban landscape. The following can be read in a Travel guide for Jewish Europe.
“In Prague’s Charles Bridge, the visitor will observe a great crucifix surrounded by huge gilded Hebrew letters that spell the traditional Hebrew sanctification Kadosh Kadosh Kadosh Adonai Tzvaot, “Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord of Hosts”. According to various commentators, this piece, degrading to Jews, came about because in 1609 a Jew was accused of desecrating the crucifix. The Jewish community was forced to pay for putting up the Hebrew words in gold letters. Another explanation is that a Jew spat at the cross and for this he was to be put to death as a punishment. When this man begged for his life, the king, seeking to have good relations with the Jews, said the Jewish community had to rectify the offence…” (To read more, click here.)
Shahak maintains that “in the past, when the danger of anti-Semitic hostility was a real one, the pious Jews were commanded by their rabbis either to spit so that the reason for doing so would be unknown, or to spit onto their chests, not actually on a cross or openly before a church.”
A Christian student was scheduled for deportation from Israel June 30 because the government accused her of “missionary work.” Roused by police at 6:30 a.m., German grad student Barbara Ludwig was taken to prison and told she must leave Israel by May 30. Haaretz says she “denied being a missionary, although she admits contact with Messianic Jews.”
“They may have seen me at some meetings of the Messianic Jews,” Barbara said. “I go around with Jews, with Christians, and with Messianics, and I read books about Christianity. So what? That’s no reason to deport me.”
By Donald Neff
Former Israel Bureau Chief for Time Magazine
Excerpted from Fifty Years of Israel
On Dec. 29, 1977, Christians in Israel and the occupied territories protested a new law passed by the Israeli parliament making it illegal for missionaries to proselytize Jews. Protestant churches charged that the law had been “hastily pushed through parliament during the Christmas period when Christians were busily engaged in preparing for and celebrating their major festival.” The law made missionaries liable to five years’ imprisonment for attempting to persuade people to change their religion, and three years’ imprisonment for any Jew who converted. The United Christian Council complained that the law could be “misused in restricting religious freedom in Israel.”
Donald Neff has been a journalist for forty years. He spent 16 years in service for Time Magazine and is a regular contributor to Middle East International and the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs. He is the author of five excellent books on the Middle East.
Nonetheless, it came into force on April 1, 1978, prohibiting the offering of “material inducement” for a person to change his religion. A material inducement could be something as minor as the giving of a Bible. Although the Likud government of Menachem Begin assured the Christian community that the law applied equally to all religions and did not specifically mention Christians, the United Christian Council of Israel charged that it was biased and aimed specifically at Christians since only Christians openly proselytized. Council representatives also cited anti-Christian speeches made in the parliament during debate on the law. Parliament member Binyamin Halevy had called missionaries “a cancer in the body of the nation.”
The next year Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef, considered a political moderate, issued a religious ruling that copies of the New Testament should be torn out of any edition of a Bible owned by a Jew. Israeli scholar Yehoshafat Harkabi wrote that he was disturbed by “these manifestations of hostility-the designation of Christians as idolaters, the demand to invoke the ‘resident alien’ ordinances, and the burning of the New Testament.” Observed Harkabi: “Outside of the Land of Israel Jews never dared behave in this fashion. Has independence made the Jews take leave of their senses?”
The US State Department’s Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor’s “International Freedom of Religion Report 2009” is heavily critical of Israel’s policies regarding religious pluralism and tolerance. In its introduction the report notes, “Government allocations of state resources favored Orthodox (including Modern and National Religious streams of Orthodoxy) and ultra-Orthodox (sometimes referred to as "Haredi") Jewish religious groups and institutions, discriminating against non-Jews and non-Orthodox streams of Judaism.”
The report relies heavily on research and reports from NIF grantees. ”According to the Israel Religious Action Center (IRAC) for Progessive Judaism (Reform), in 2006 approximately 96 percent of all state funds for Jewish religious education were allocated to Orthodox or ultra-Orthodox Jewish schools”; ”According to New Family: Organization for Family Rights, more than 5,000 couples marry in civil ceremonies abroad each year, primarily in Cyprus.” The report also refers to Supreme Court petitions by IRAC and Adalah: Legal Center for Arab Minority Rights in Israel.
Women in Israel is the first comprehensive overview of discrimination in a state dominated by a patriarchal religious order, and brings fresh insights to the efficacy of the law in improving the status of women. Providing a sociolegal perspective on women in Israel viewed, Ruth Halperin-Kaddari examines all aspects of Israeli women's lives, looking at legal issues such as affirmative action, motherhood and the workplace, and mechanisms for the advancement of women, as well as conditions of education, employment, health, family, and prostitution.
While tracing legislative evolution in Israel, Halperin-Kaddari discusses the extent to which law can create social change. Because of its unique position as an economically developed democracy and yet a state where government tries to maintain a special cultural tradition and religious identity in a heterogeneous society, Israel has failed to adopt a single national standard for women that would bring Israeli law into compliance with international human rights. Halperin-Kaddari concludes that the improvement in women's status has not been due to egalitarian consciousness, but rather is incidental to Israel's overall socioeconomic advancement.
“Israel’s private sector is almost entirely closed to Arab women because of discriminatory practices by employers who prefer to employ Jews,” Mr. Jabareen said. He added that the government had failed to provide leadership: among governmental workers, less than two per cent were Arab women, despite repeated pledges by ministers to increase Arab recruitment.
“In any situation in which a non-Jew’s presence endangers Jewish lives, the non-Jew may be killed even if he is a righteous Gentile and not at all guilty for the situation that has been created…When a non-Jew assists a murderer of Jews and causes the death of one, he may be killed, and in any case where a non-Jew’s presence causes danger to Jews, the non-Jew may be killed…The [Din Rodef] dispensation applies even when the pursuer is not threatening to kill directly, but only indirectly…Even a civilian who assists combat fighters is considered a pursuer and may be killed. Anyone who assists the army of the wicked in any way is strengthening murderers and is considered a pursuer. A civilian who encourages the war gives the king and his soldiers the strength to continue. Therefore, any citizen of the state that opposes us who encourages the combat soldiers or expresses satisfaction over their actions is considered a pursuer and may be killed. Also, anyone who weakens our own state by word or similar action is considered a pursuer…Hindrances—babies are found many times in this situation. They block the way to rescue by their presence and do so completely by force. Nevertheless, they may be killed because their presence aids murder. There is justification for killing babies if it is clear that they will grow up to harm us, and in such a situation they may be harmed deliberately, and not only during combat with adults.”…In a chapter entitled “Deliberate harm to innocents,” the book explains that war is directled mainly against the pursuers, but those who belong to the enemy nation are also considered the enemy because they are assisting murderers.
[Excerpt from "The Mutual Guarantee [Arvut Hadadit] Strategy”, by Rabbi Yosef Elitzur]
Liberation of the mind leads to liberation of action, and the more liberated the mind the greater reverberation small acts have and the greater their results (at a relatively low price). We offer a few possible courses of action:
“Mutual guarantee” [Arvut Hadadit] — acts of mutual guarantee coordinated between members of all the settlements take the air out of the government’s dreams. First of all we are all together and there is no “divide and conquer.” Second of all, we decide on the timing and don’t wait for a large police force and inspectors to bash us in the head and arrest and beat us. We have power too and we will use it at the time and place of our choice. Thirdly, we remember that the war is over Judaism, and the main enemies are the Gentiles in our country who are trying to conquer it and confusing the minds of crooked Jews who are far from the Torah. We do not discriminate: if the Jews don’t have quiet, the Arabs won’t have quiet. If the Arabs win because of violence against Jews, the Jews will win by violence against Arabs [emphasis mine]. Of course all of that leads to graceful activities with lots of joy: we can use the power of the women, children and older people to block a certain access road, and at the same time take firmer action against hostile elements further down the same road; we can carry out quiet and deep operations simultaneously with widespread acts of disorder in the sector, and so on.
Don’t forget that a multitude of such operations and warming up the public will put us in a state of high readiness. To this day administration inspectors have not managed to enter Yitzhar since the freeze decree. That is because the experience and the heat at Yitzhar make every entrance by hostile elements require large forces and end with much damage to IDF and police property, even more damage to Arab property and persons, and a sector burning on all sides for a few days [emphasis mine]. When in every settlement a police patrol car becomes an unwanted presence, and administration inspectors understand they have 10 minutes to run away before their tires are punctured, the government’s ability to enforce its decrees will drop sharply.
On the 19th day of Kislev [December 6], the day of redemption of the Old Master who withstood the denouncement and persecution of Jewish brothers, we will meet at the Od Yosef Chai yeshiva for a conference with our teacher Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg. Those who wish to be warmed and to meet many Jews from all walks of the Jewish public who are partners in strengthening Jews in the holy land are joyously welcome! [emphasis in original]
Lior Yavne, who oversees research at the Yesh Din human rights organization, checked and found that in 2006-2007, the Ministry of Education department of Torah institutions transferred over a million shekels to the Od Yosef Hai yeshiva in Yitzhar.
The Ministry of Social Affairs has allocated over 150,000 shekels to the yeshiva since 2007, scholarships for students with financial difficulties studying there.
A report on donations submitted by the yeshiva to the registrar of nonprofit organizations revealed that the American public also participates in financing the message coming out of Yitzhar. It states that in 2007 and 2008, the yeshiva received NIS 102,547 [roughly $27,000 USD] from an American foundation known as the Central Fund of Israel.
According to the fund’s latest financial statement, it gave some $8 million to religious organizations in 2006, earmarked for establishing synagogues and schools, aiding the needy and “urgent security needs.
For a fitting biblical analogy: Israel may feel like Daniel in the lion's den. They are surrounded by seething hatred and violence.
larger, better‐equipped, and better‐led forces during the 1947‐49 War of Independence and the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) won quick and easy victories against Egypt in 1956 and against Egypt, Jordan, and Syria in 1967—before large‐scale U.S. aid began flowing to Israel. (S
"the strategic balance decidedly favors Israel, which has continued to widen the qualitative gap between its own military capabilities and deterrence powers and those of its neighbors" (Amos Harel, "Israel Maintains Its Strategic Advantage, Says Jaffee Center," Haaretz (online), November 23, 2005). The Jaffee Center has now been incorporated into the new Institute for National Security Studies. For additional data supporting the conclusion that "Israel is the only state to sustain high enough overall expenditures to maintain most force levels and improve quality," (S
Six day war anyone?
Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
God is not on their side, nor the other, in fact I'm sure God has long ago turned away from both sides of this in pure disgust.
Both sides have perverted faith in him, whether he is God or Allah is irrelevant.
Whether your book is a bible, Our'an or some other text you claim is the word of God, you cannot escape the fact that no true people of God on either side would have such lust for war.
War is hell, and the hell they have made suits them both.
The innocents on both sides are worthy of prayers.
Originally posted by harryhaller
The only comment i have is:
"Thou shalt not kill".
Originally posted by spikey
Another nutter in charge.
Just what the world needs.
Originally posted by PGTWEED
reply to post by captiva
Should Israel and every Jewish person, devout or not, is killed. Then G-D would allow every comet, asteroid, planet and stars to crash into our planet! As for everybody losing when Israel wins. Only the ANTI-SEMITES and ANTI-ZIONISTS who despise the Jewish People, Jewish Faith and Nation ARE THE TRUE LOSERS! The Prophet Ovadiah prophecies state the Israel's borders will expand TO THE PERSIAN GULF! I WOULD CALL THAT WINNING!!!
Originally posted by PGTWEED
reply to post by Retrovertigo
One of the 13 Priniciples of the Jewish Faith is not to Desecrate G-D's Holy Name when faced with imminent death. The Jews who went to their deaths in the Gas Chambers knew they were going to be killed upheld that priniciple of their Faith in HIM. The correct translation is Thou shalt not Murder. Israel and the Palestinians are still in a state of war. Soldiers are allowed to kill in wartime. If G-D is non-existant as you claim. The arabs should have driven the Jews into the sea in 1948. They didn't. The battle tactics The Israelis used from 1948 to the present are modifications what their ancestors used to fight their enemies. More Proof of the Jewish Bible's Historical Accuracy!