Reminder: Walmart destroying our economies

Hello ATS, this is a reminder to everyone, something I seriously believe we need to all pay more attention to...

WALMART

Walmart destroys economies, lowers workers' standards, puts locally owned businesses out of work, and forces people to look elsewhere for work.

What are YOU doing to save your local economy? Start contacting local administrations! Tell them how you feel about Super Stores and how they should fallow in the footsteps of the growing list of cities banning the creation of new super stores! 'cause I sure am.

Here are 2 sources that people can use for information:

Walmart: The High cost of Low Prices

Wake Up Walmart

Every time you shop there, YOU are at fault for damaging the economy, fueling this monopoly and all of it's associates! There's lots of excuses people will make and a lot of anger towards this statement... But does it make what you're doing Ok?

What can I say? Buy expensive U.S. made products... YES you heard me right. Buy stuff made in the U.S. that fuels the economy, buy stuff that lasts! Not "Made in China" crap that will wear out, because every time you purchase cheap goods.. your allowing 10 more of the same product to be manufactured in the outsourced sweat shops. Stop the cycle! And you'll save money in the long run.

[edit on 18-4-2010 by Scarcer]

Originally posted by Scarcer


Walmart destroys economies, lowers workers' standards, puts locally owned businesses out of work, and forces people to look elsewhere for work.

Walmart is simply changing the face of capitalism through its business model. To claim that Walmart is somehow evil and that those who shop there are destroying the economy is ludicrous and extreme.

I wouldnt worry too much. Walmart is very low in stock, have taken out the self checks, and i do believe they are going downhill FAST! I wouldnt be surprised if they all go under real soon.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Scarcer


Walmart destroys economies, lowers workers' standards, puts locally owned businesses out of work, and forces people to look elsewhere for work.

Walmart is simply changing the face of capitalism through its business model. To claim that Walmart is somehow evil and that those who shop there are destroying the economy is ludicrous and extreme.

Sorry but I found your comment rather bland, on what grounds do you have to say it's ludicrous, what good is it doing for our economy?

Originally posted by dgtempe
I wouldnt worry too much. Walmart is very low in stock, have taken out the self checks, and i do believe they are going downhill FAST! I wouldnt be surprised if they all go under real soon.

Interesting, could you explain a little more? The Walmarts here seam to be thriving, in fact they are building another. But this could be due to my area still having a strong economy, because there are only 3 Walmarts in the entire County and most of the revenue is from all the farms, something Walmart doesn't have; yet.

[edit on 18-4-2010 by Scarcer]

Originally posted by Scarcer

Sorry but I found your comment rather bland, on what grounds do you have to say it's ludicrous, what good is it doing for our economy?

My opinion that claiming Walmart as [paraphrased] "evil" and that by shopping there one is destroying the economy is ludicrous is all the grounds I need. Purchasing products stimulates the economy. Walmart employs people who may not have other opportunities for employment. Attracting customers by offering a huge selection and lower prices is one of the great things about capitalism.

And likewise, I find all the anti-Walmart rhetoric quite bland. If you don't like it you're free to shop elsewhere. As long as they have a good price on something I want, they get my cash.

I hate to be repetitive but that is what people get for allowing(or even wanting) uncontrolled capitalism. The right wingers want small government(no checks and balances) so it is only natural for companies to develop into natural monopolies, each monopolising a sector of business.

In turn, these companies get so big that government gets rendered helpless. I am talking about microsoft, cisco, goldman sachs, jp morgan & chase, walmart, home depot, the federal reserve(yes its a private corporation), the petroleum companies, etc.

Government should be an extension of the people and primarily(but not entirely) look after the people. Thanks to THE FAR RIGHT it has become exactly the opposite.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Scarcer

Sorry but I found your comment rather bland, on what grounds do you have to say it's ludicrous, what good is it doing for our economy?

My opinion that claiming Walmart as [paraphrased] "evil" and that by shopping there one is destroying the economy is ludicrous is all the grounds I need. Purchasing products stimulates the economy. Walmart employs people who may not have other opportunities for employment. Attracting customers by offering a huge selection and lower prices is one of the great things about capitalism.

And likewise, I find all the anti-Walmart rhetoric quite bland. If you don't like it you're free to shop elsewhere. As long as they have a good price on something I want, they get my cash.

Your analysis of walmart is very self-centered and shallow. What is good for consumers IS SIMULTANEOUSLY bad for employees and the economy.

This is EXACTLY what is wrong with unfettered capitalism because given the opportunity to save a few bucks, 90% of any given community will take advantage of so-called "sales" to:

(1) drive out small business because they can't compete price-wise
(2)force walmart staff, especially low level employees, to get mistreated and underpaid.
(3)encourage companies to go overseas due to cheap labor, lax enviromental laws, low tariffs, etc.

[edit on 18-4-2010 by EarthCitizen07]

Walmart going out of business.. *LOL* now you are funny. Pass me some of what you are smoking.
They didn't get to where they are to let a mistake take them out of business.
While there are pro's and cons to a store that large, we are stuck with them, and they are not going anywhere any time soon.
While many bash them, they do pay the workers decent. A lot better than a lot of minimal jobs get.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Scarcer

Sorry but I found your comment rather bland, on what grounds do you have to say it's ludicrous, what good is it doing for our economy?

My opinion that claiming Walmart as [paraphrased] "evil" and that by shopping there one is destroying the economy is ludicrous is all the grounds I need. Purchasing products stimulates the economy. Walmart employs people who may not have other opportunities for employment. Attracting customers by offering a huge selection and lower prices is one of the great things about capitalism.

And likewise, I find all the anti-Walmart rhetoric quite bland. If you don't like it you're free to shop elsewhere. As long as they have a good price on something I want, they get my cash.

In MANY cases these people don't have good employment opportunities because Walmart puts people out of business and drives down employment standards. Arkansas is a good example of this, and I've been there because it's my gf's home state. You can find blocks and blocks of empty business lots.

Yes, purchasing products to an extent can stimulate the economy, but as soon as that dollar leaves your hand, you lose control of where that stimulation goes. With Walmart, you can bet it's not in your interest.

Research Costco on the other hand, low prices without compromising worker standards and great customer service.

reply to post by Scarcer


lower prices = you save money.

i know spare me all the evils, i watched the movies. im just saying everybody always seems to forget to factor in the most obvious part of the equation, and that is the fact that all their products are cheaper than alternatives, so the consumer ends up with more money, to spend on other things.

thus improving the economy.

Originally posted by severdsoul
Walmart going out of business.. *LOL* now you are funny. Pass me some of what you are smoking.
They didn't get to where they are to let a mistake take them out of business.
While there are pro's and cons to a store that large, we are stuck with them, and they are not going anywhere any time soon.
While many bash them, they do pay the workers decent. A lot better than a lot of minimal jobs get.

About the statement on pay, unless it's recently changed, I've never noticed employees carring enough about their customers unless the manager was around. I don't shop there but I've spend a fare share of time causing trouble in there with friends.

I don't claim to know everything, but that's my observation.

[edit on 18-4-2010 by Scarcer]

You are right on, OP

Everything you buy at walmart you should make yourself, or buy from someone who makes it in your town or state or country, or do without.

Workers at walmart are not small businessmen, although their fathers may have been before walmart came to town and put dad's small shop out of business.

In addition, shopping at walmart is for those who aren't getting the whole Internet thing.

Shop at small businesses, in town or online.

You could even OWN one, instead of waving at walmart.

Originally posted by LurkerMan
reply to post by Scarcer

 

lower prices = you save money.

i know spare me all the evils, i watched the movies. im just saying everybody always seems to forget to factor in the most obvious part of the equation, and that is the fact that all their products are cheaper than alternatives, so the consumer ends up with more money, to spend on other things.

thus improving the economy.

Without a Walmart, you are likely to work in more locally owned businesses. You are also likelier to make more money. When Walmart moves in, you take advantage of the low prices. Businesses lose revenue and have to close. This lowers the standards and depletes work opportunities. Pretty soon your stuck with nothing but Walmart to shop or work at, which isn't good since work opportunities in Walmart are limited. This isn't theory, this has happened and continues to happen.

[edit on 18-4-2010 by Scarcer]

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Your analysis of walmart is very self-centered and shallow. What is good for consumers IS SIMULTANEOUSLY bad for employees and the economy.

This is EXACTLY what is wrong with unfettered capitalism because given the opportunity to save a few bucks, 90% of any given community will take advantage of so-called "sales" to:

(1) drive out small business because they can't compete price-wise
(2)force walmart staff, especially low level employees, to get mistreated and underpaid.
(3)encourage companies to go overseas due to cheap labor, lax enviromental laws, low tariffs, etc.

[edit on 18-4-2010 by EarthCitizen07]

Yeah. Okay. Did you get run out of business by Walmart or are you simply jumping on the anti-Walmart bandwagon because you have something in your craw about capitalism? Walmart is not "unfettered capitalism", in fact it's subject to plenty of government regulations.

To answer your contentions by number:

1. There are plenty of small businesses still thriving that have survived and will survive Walmart by finding new ways to compete.

2. Even the "lowest" Walmart employees are still subject to minimum wage and labor laws and are neither mistreated nor underpaid.

3. Companies go overseas for a variety of reasons and the vast majority of them have to do with terrible government policies, not Walmart.

Originally posted by LurkerMan
reply to post by Scarcer

 

lower prices = you save money.

i know spare me all the evils, i watched the movies. im just saying everybody always seems to forget to factor in the most obvious part of the equation, and that is the fact that all their products are cheaper than alternatives, so the consumer ends up with more money, to spend on other things.

thus improving the economy.

ASDA WALMART have just been fined £14M for price fixing their cigarettes and colluding in breaking competition laws. I personally don't give a monkey's as I don't smoke, but it does undermine the idea that they're 'cheaper' than the alternatives. ASDA WALMART were also fined for around £30M a couple of years ago for fixing the price of milk.

They were also investigated regarding the temporary lowering of prices on certain lines and then ramping them-up past previous prices in the run up to Christmas. Not breaking the law but a pretty #ty thing to do, particularly when you've driven small businesses into the ground there's not much in the way of local competition anyway.

[edit on 18-4-2010 by Merriman Weir]

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
I hate to be repetitive but that is what people get for allowing(or even wanting) uncontrolled capitalism. The right wingers want small government(no checks and balances) so it is only natural for companies to develop into natural monopolies, each monopolising a sector of business.

In turn, these companies get so big that government gets rendered helpless. I am talking about microsoft, cisco, goldman sachs, jp morgan & chase, walmart, home depot, the federal reserve(yes its a private corporation), the petroleum companies, etc.

Government should be an extension of the people and primarily(but not entirely) look after the people. Thanks to THE FAR RIGHT it has become exactly the opposite.

You know there are a lot of folk out there that are unaware that James Madison had words of warning about momopolies. He felt they were dangerous had created problems in an economy.

Yea James Madison, founding father and all that. Some even feel he is yet the greatest political mind this country has produced.

Originally posted by Scarcer
Research Costco on the other hand, low prices without compromising worker standards and great customer service.

Good for them. Perhaps Costco's model will force Walmart to match or exceed it's standards.

Quite odd though that you'll smear Walmart yet bolster Costco.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Your analysis of walmart is very self-centered and shallow. What is good for consumers IS SIMULTANEOUSLY bad for employees and the economy.

This is EXACTLY what is wrong with unfettered capitalism because given the opportunity to save a few bucks, 90% of any given community will take advantage of so-called "sales" to:

(1) drive out small business because they can't compete price-wise
(2)force walmart staff, especially low level employees, to get mistreated and underpaid.
(3)encourage companies to go overseas due to cheap labor, lax enviromental laws, low tariffs, etc.

[edit on 18-4-2010 by EarthCitizen07]

Yeah. Okay. Did you get run out of business by Walmart or are you simply jumping on the anti-Walmart bandwagon because you have something in your craw about capitalism? Walmart is not "unfettered capitalism", in fact it's subject to plenty of government regulations.

To answer your contentions by number:

1. There are plenty of small businesses still thriving that have survived and will survive Walmart by finding new ways to compete.

2. Even the "lowest" Walmart employees are still subject to minimum wage and labor laws and are neither mistreated nor underpaid.

3. Companies go overseas for a variety of reasons and the vast majority of them have to do with terrible government policies, not Walmart.

You have #3 partly right. But it IS also due to lowered standards. People can't afford American made products any more because of these lowered standards in prices. The only way for many companies to compete is to outsource.

#2 Last time I checked, minimum wage wasn't enough to make a living. So does it make minimum wage ok? Walmart has also been accused of hiring illegals to do work for under minimum wage and having poor work environments.

#1 Let's see here. The main thing driving the economy in my area is farming. Yakima Valley is a HUGE outsourcer for crops, wine and hopps. Many businesses have closed in Yakima Valley, but there are still many independant businesses, usually the ones that offer what service Walmart can't, and also because we have a large economy. If it wasn't for the farming, we would have no economy, and we wouldn't have much to choose from besides Walmart. Right now, I'm lucky to live where I do, but only few areas have the kind of potential Yakima Valley has.

I don't see you using real world examples.

Originally posted by Scarcer


Without a Walmart, you are likely to work in more locally owned businesses. You are also likelier to make more money. When Walmart moves in, you take advantage of the low prices. Businesses lose revenue and have to close. This lowers the standards and depletes work opportunities. Pretty soon your stuck with nothing but Walmart to shop or work at, which isn't good since work opportunities in Walmart are limited. This isn't theory, this has happened and continues to happen.

Yet small, locally owned businesses still exist in spite of Walmart. Some may have to close because of any competitor: big box nationals or another savvy local-owned business. It seems that citing local-area business damage because of Walmart simply stems from a desire to see the competition from Walmart squashed. If you don't like them, don't shop there. It's that simple: use your dollars elsewhere.